US citizen critically injured protesting illegal wall in Ni'ilin, West Bank

Tristan Anderson    Photo:  www.activestills.org

Tristan Anderson Photo: www.activestills.org

Tristan Anderson, a 37 year old American, was shot in the head by Israeli forces with a high velocity tear gas canister while participating in an on-going protest of the wall being built illegally by Israel in the West Bank town of Ni’ilin.  Another Ni’ilin villager was also shot.

Four residents of Ni’ilin, including children, have been killed while protesting the confiscation of their land in the recent past.

[Note:  In 2004, the International Court of Justice found all parts of the wall being built on Palestinian land illegal and that these portions should be removed.  Instead the GOI continues to build the wall on occupied territory - including this portion in Ni'ilin.]

According to the IDF, the protestors were ‘endangering security forces’.  According to eyewitnesses, the IDF were stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.  Tristan was not near any stone throwers or throwing stones himself.

A fellow protestor from Sweden said she could see Tristan’s brain when she went to provide aid and that medical personnel and the ambulance was detained outside the village by the IDF, but were finally allowed to pass and tend to Tristan.  The video below shows the paramedics when they arrive on the scene, clearly marked, while the IDF continues to fire tear gas canisters directly at the medics, the wounded and those trying to help.

WARNING: Video provided has some gruesome footage towards the end.

This Monday, March 16 2009 marks the 6th anniversary of the death of another US citizen, Rachel Corrie, who was crushed by an American made Caterpillar bulldozer while trying to negotiate with the driver not to destroy the home of a Palestinian pharmacist in the Gaza Strip.  She was 23 years old.

UPDATE (March 13):  Orly Levi, a spokeswoman at the Tel Hashomer hospital in Tel Aviv, tells Ha’aretz:

He’s in critical condition, anesthetized and on a ventilator and undergoing imaging tests,” She described Anderson’s condition as life-threatening.

Israeli activist Jonathan Pollack told Ynet:

“… the firing incident took place inside the village and not next to the fence. There were clashes in the earlier hours, but he wasn’t part of them. He didn’t throw stones and wasn’t standing next to the stone throwers.”

“There was really no reason to fire at them. The Dutch girl standing next to him was not hurt. It only injured him, like a bullet.”

UPDATE (March 13 11:50pm): Tristan is sedated and in surgery, being seen by an ophthalmologist, and will likely be in surgery for some time.

UPDATE (March 14  7:42pm:  Tristan’s girlfriend, Gabrielle Silverman, talks of trip to hospital and Tristan’s condition on Bay City News and KTVU.

Note: Friends of Anderson will hold a demonstration on Monday at 4 p.m. at the Israeli Consulate, located at 456 Montgomery St. in San Francisco.

UPDATE (March 15):  Photo of the new tear gas canister type (with propeller) that hit Tristan Anderson.  Photo from www.palsolidarity.org website.

UPDATE (March 15):  A public statement by the parents of Tristan and articles written by Tristan can be found at the San Francisco indymedia website.

BACKGROUND INFO:

More information on the two Palestinian minors/children killed in 2008 by IDF in Ni’ilin from www.btselem.org:

Yusef Ahmad Yunes ‘Amira
17 year-old resident of Ni’lin, Ramallah and al-Bira district, injured on 30.07.2008 near the Separation Barrier in the area of Ni’lin, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire, and died on 04.08.2008. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Died after being critically wounded during a confrontation with soldiers and Border Police.

10 year-old resident of Ni’lin, Ramallah and al-Bira district, killed on 29.07.2008 in Ni’lin, Ramallah and al-Bira district, by gunfire. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed when taking part in a procession against the Separation Barrier in Nil’in.

On September 23, 2008 a Jerusalem Post article ran about an incident where tear gas was used against a European Union official and delegation when he was visiting Ni’ilin.

UPDATE (March 23, 2009 2:30pm est):  According to Ma’an News Agency, Israeli troops beat some activists and journalists who were gathered for a press conference by Tristan Anderson’s parents in an east Jerusalem neighborhood.

UPDATE (April 17, 2009 12:00pm est):  A Palestinian man was killed by Israeli forces in Bi’lin, West Bank by the same tear gas canister type that had critically injured American Tristan Anderson only a month ago during a protest.

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167 thoughts on “US citizen critically injured protesting illegal wall in Ni'ilin, West Bank

  1. Pingback: American citizen critically injured after being shot in the head by Israeli forces in Ni’lin | International Solidarity Movement

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  3. Why is not more being done about the crimes that Israel commits? Amnesty, please do something. When I write to Congressman I get back letters of total support for Israel. First, Israeli lobby groups should be forced to register as foreign Groups. Aipac is clearly a representative of Israel.
    There is growing animosity of U.S. citizens towards its government for letting Israel get away with atrotious crimes. The U.S. should put America first, not Israel. People who are nominated for appointments within our government, and in particular for positions in foreign policy, are routinely smeared if they don’t have an Israel-First stance. Anyone supporting BALANCE on Issues in the middle east is quickly smoked out. (a recent example is Freeman’s appointment by the director of the NIC). THIS HAS TO STOP if our nation is going to have any credibility around the world. I am sick and tired of the influence the Israeli Lobby groups have over our government. Even Obama is now being overly influenced. Just research in depth the people that he has surrounded himself with. Israel’s reputation world-wide is that of a rogue and racist society. Just the fact they call themselves a “jewish state” says it all. This is no different than those Muslim nations that are theocratic.
    Also, Steven Rosen, who has been charged with providing secret U.S. information to Israel, was one at the helm doing a smear job on Freeman. The hypocracy is daunting.

  4. This offense to American citizen is totally unacceptable. Having visited Palestine in 2006, I must say I fully support the Palestinians and to end the occupation and allow them to have their freedom.

    If, and when, a Palestinian makes it out of the torture of the occupation they are still treated like an outcast (no matter where they reside). I have a dear friend who came to America, obtained their citizenship and was still rejected here because of their nationality. We allow people to come to America and break all the rules to stay in our country and for the people who do it leagally they are still left feeling like an outcast. Employment is virtually nonexistant.

    I lived, walked and ate with a hosted Palestinian family and was treated with the upmost respect. While traviling on the buses to Palestine, not one man remained seated unless all the women were seated first. I thought that respect was amazing and I wasn't even one of their own people. It was an experience I will never forget. During my shower, the water would be stopped because Israel controls the water and shuts it down at will on the Palestinians. Their living conditions are terrible. While visiting the family I watched Israel do a raid on the town of Nablus. It's crazy, yet people who have never been there to see the torture cannot understand. The destruction from Israel in the towns was unbelieveable and the only way this torture and occupation to the Palestinians will end is to educate people with the truth about what is happening there. The truth is not what we see in America. The truth is not what the media shows.

    No, I am not anti-sematic. I believe in a two state solution and that the people of Palestine should control their own borders and all the illegal settlements should be removed from the Palestinian land. Thank God there are people in this world that are brave enough to go there and see the truth. I sat for hours in checkpoints with no water, no acces to food or any type of bathroom facilities. Are the checkpoints necessary? I don't believe they are. The Palestinians are normal people trying to work and take care of their family with very little resources left from the destruction of the infastruction Israel has caused in the name of "their security" and "terrorism". The terror comes from Israel themselves, not all Israelies, but some. If this happened here in America, and someone would kill my family, well yes, I would be upset too…..and when it was an unnecessary execution I might be very upset.

    I was sitting in the hosted families home when at night army tanks would rumble through the streets. I wasn't even allowed to look out the window because if I had, I would have been shot and killed myself. For what, simply being there. They had no regard for me, as an American citizen at their borders at all. Why? I was harmless, just going to visit Palestine. Israel didn't care that I was an American citizen, just because I was with a Palestinian I was of no importance.

    My prayers are with the Palestinian people and for the Americans and others who are willing to risk their life to expose the horror of the occupation and the truth about what life is really like under occupation!

    Imagine being in the middle of a family dinner, laughing and enjoyiing the company of your family and friends and then all of a sudden you are bombarded with shells and bullets and whatever ugly weapons they could inflict upon you and for no reason at all. The night of the raid, I was with a family and we were simply grilling and enjoying laughter, food and being alive. Within minutes we had to leave everything, go inside and just stay in the middle of the house praying that we wouldn't be the victim of this unjust treatment. Don't tell me the Palestinians are a group of horrible people, because I know the truth! Stop the occupation and educate yourself with wisdom rather than what others say. If one wants to know the truth, I challenge you to go there and see. The truth is all around in the broken homes, the shattered building, the poor infastructure………it makes me sick. You drive outside of the occupied territory to Israel and the life is good.

    Palestine, you have my support and I will always speak the truth of what I have seen. Remember there is good an bad in every religion, every culture, and every nationality………but that doesn't mean it's the majority. Palestine, thank you for being so kind to me.

  5. Cathy,

    I feel your frustration with your statement, “Amnesty, please do something.”

    Amnesty International as a human rights organization has been working in our capacity as human rights advocates in investigating human rights violations by all parties in the region including Israel and other armed Palestinian groups including Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad etc … Our investigations lead to reports and actions by both members of AI worldwide and AI staff.

    You can visit the main AI site at http://www.amnesty.org and search by country of interest to find all the latest reports, press releases, stories and actions or go to http://www.amnestyusa.org and search by country to find out what members in the US section of Amnesty have been doing as well as the latest news and reports. There is also a ‘Resources’ section to help you take action.

    The US section of Amnesty International just recently hosted the senior researcher on Israel and the OPT, Donatella Rovera and the weapons/munitions expert, Chris Cobb-Smith who were part of the fact finding mission that travelled to southern Israel and the Gaza Strip investigating allegations of human rights violations there. Their research did indeed find human rights violations by all parties involved in the conflict in their time there. [See report ‘Fuelling conflict: foreign arms supplies to Israel/Gaza’ or the blog entries while they were there at http://livewire.amnesty.org/author/donatellarovera/.

    These researchers along with AI staff and members visited members of the Senate and House as well as the State Department sharing our findings and asking that an investigation take place into the misuse of US made weapons in the Gaza Strip.

    Amnesty has acted and will continue to act within our capacity as a human rights organization to speak out and act out against human rights violations. Individuals, such as yourself, can join our struggle or simply take action yourself. Continue to write your elected officials; call the State Department, call the White House; write to offending government officials; donate to organizations who are working towards the same goals as you.

    The beauty of joining an organization like Amnesty is that there is power in numbers when made up of committed, like-minded individuals who sacrifice their time and energy towards a goal.

    Please don’t give up. We’re not.

  6. This offense to American citizen is totally unacceptable. Having visited Palestine in 2006, I must say I fully support the Palestinians and to end the occupation and allow them to have their freedom.

    If, and when, a Palestinian makes it out of the torture of the occupation they are still treated like an outcast (no matter where they reside). I have a dear friend who came to America, obtained their citizenship and was still rejected here because of their nationality. We allow people to come to America and break all the rules to stay in our country and for the people who do it leagally they are still left feeling like an outcast. Employment is virtually nonexistant.

    I lived, walked and ate with a hosted Palestinian family and was treated with the upmost respect. While traviling on the buses to Palestine, not one man remained seated unless all the women were seated first. I thought that respect was amazing and I wasn’t even one of their own people. It was an experience I will never forget. During my shower, the water would be stopped because Israel controls the water and shuts it down at will on the Palestinians. Their living conditions are terrible. While visiting the family I watched Israel do a raid on the town of Nablus. It’s crazy, yet people who have never been there to see the torture cannot understand. The destruction from Israel in the towns was unbelieveable and the only way this torture and occupation to the Palestinians will end is to educate people with the truth about what is happening there. The truth is not what we see in America. The truth is not what the media shows.

    No, I am not anti-sematic. I believe in a two state solution and that the people of Palestine should control their own borders and all the illegal settlements should be removed from the Palestinian land. Thank God there are people in this world that are brave enough to go there and see the truth. I sat for hours in checkpoints with no water, no acces to food or any type of bathroom facilities. Are the checkpoints necessary? I don’t believe they are. The Palestinians are normal people trying to work and take care of their family with very little resources left from the destruction of the infastruction Israel has caused in the name of “their security” and “terrorism”. The terror comes from Israel themselves, not all Israelies, but some. If this happened here in America, and someone would kill my family, well yes, I would be upset too…..and when it was an unnecessary execution I might be very upset.

    I was sitting in the hosted families home when at night army tanks would rumble through the streets. I wasn’t even allowed to look out the window because if I had, I would have been shot and killed myself. For what, simply being there. They had no regard for me, as an American citizen at their borders at all. Why? I was harmless, just going to visit Palestine. Israel didn’t care that I was an American citizen, just because I was with a Palestinian I was of no importance.

    My prayers are with the Palestinian people and for the Americans and others who are willing to risk their life to expose the horror of the occupation and the truth about what life is really like under occupation!

    Imagine being in the middle of a family dinner, laughing and enjoyiing the company of your family and friends and then all of a sudden you are bombarded with shells and bullets and whatever ugly weapons they could inflict upon you and for no reason at all. The night of the raid, I was with a family and we were simply grilling and enjoying laughter, food and being alive. Within minutes we had to leave everything, go inside and just stay in the middle of the house praying that we wouldn’t be the victim of this unjust treatment. Don’t tell me the Palestinians are a group of horrible people, because I know the truth! Stop the occupation and educate yourself with wisdom rather than what others say. If one wants to know the truth, I challenge you to go there and see. The truth is all around in the broken homes, the shattered building, the poor infastructure………it makes me sick. You drive outside of the occupied territory to Israel and the life is good.

    Palestine, you have my support and I will always speak the truth of what I have seen. Remember there is good an bad in every religion, every culture, and every nationality………but that doesn’t mean it’s the majority. Palestine, thank you for being so kind to me.

  7. From your article I get the idea AI supports rock throwing against police and objects to the police using non-violence i.e. tear gas back at the attacking rock throwers?

    Your own article above quotes: "He … wasn’t standing next to the stone throwers." Therefore your own quote you yourself chose for inclusion in your article clearly proves stone throwers were definitely present at the demonstration.

    Does AI object to police using a humane non-violent crowd control method like tear gas against a large crowd you yourself admit was throwing rocks at police? Would AI object if police in any other county in the world used non-violent crowd control methods like tear gas against rock throwers, or is this just another case of AI unfairly picking on Israel again?

  8. So you admit the crowd threw rocks. Good, we are making progress.

    Now, are large rocks launched hundreds of feet from slings by skilled rock throwers not considered by you to be as equally lethal projectiles as misfired tear gas canisters ? Tear gas canisters and well thrown rocks can both cause death if bad luck allows a direct strike to the forehead.

    So then you have to admit the crowd was using potentially lethal force against the soldiers, and so you must also admit that under international law the soldiers had every legal right in that case to act in self defense. Yet the soldiers responded with a method very rarely documented to cause serious injury, a method in use by police forces across the western democratic world.

    Clearly the use of tear gas instead of live ammunition in the face of what you admit was use of lethal force by the crowd shows the intent of the soldiers was to preserve life of the demonstrators, not take life.

    And by the way, the heavily edited video ( and what was edited from it that the Palestinians do not want seen ???) that has been released so far shows all the medics loading the victim into the stretcher were clearly wearing gas masks so any tear gas shot by the Israelis wouldn't have bothered them from preforming a rescue in the slightest. If the Israelis were supposedly close enough to have aimed deliberately at the victim with the tear gas canister then they would have been close enough to see the medics were all wearing gas masks, and then they would have known the tear gas wouldn't bother the rescuers? Right?

    And AI is not fair to Israel. For just one example among many that show how you unfairly pick on it, you just called for an arms embargo on Israel and Gaza. Well, what about the fact that Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran amongst others are still in states of full declared war against Israel, and in fact have made calls to genocide against Israel in most cases, but you do not call for arms embargo against these counties too. So, you call Israel to be defenseless against these countries by not being able to import arms, but as far as AI is concerned these dictatorships whom you yourselves document to be the worst human rights violators in the world can go ahead and import all the offensive weaponry they want. This is just one example of why you are seen as biased. This is a huge tragedy, because if you made an attempt to be at least somewhat evenhanded you could actually have had a huge influence for the good in the vibrant democracy and free press of Israel.

  9. I was present in Ni'lin last autumn, before the distraction of the invasion of Gaza allowed the IDF to attack Palestinian protesters away from the eyes of the world. I can assure Judo that the soldiers fire their tear gas without provocation, whether little boys are throwing rocks at them or not. I was part of a group helping the Palestiniand to pick their own olives, in their own olive groves, and we were tear-gassed as we walked towards the groves. Our party contained many Israeli families, with young children, who had come to help. The soldiers were in no danger, they just wanted to demonstrate their power. I have seen them, on another occasion, fire tear-gas and rubber-coated steel bullets at peaceful(non-rock-hurling) protesters, while they were praying on their own land.
    On one point I agree with you – no-one should be allowed to import arms. Then both sides could sit down and talk, but while the arms dealers carry on their obscene trade there will be no peace anywhere.

  10. From your article I get the idea AI supports rock throwing against police and objects to the police using non-violence i.e. tear gas back at the attacking rock throwers?

    Your own article above quotes: “He … wasn’t standing next to the stone throwers.” Therefore your own quote you yourself chose for inclusion in your article clearly proves stone throwers were definitely present at the demonstration.

    Does AI object to police using a humane non-violent crowd control method like tear gas against a large crowd you yourself admit was throwing rocks at police? Would AI object if police in any other county in the world used non-violent crowd control methods like tear gas against rock throwers, or is this just another case of AI unfairly picking on Israel again?

  11. Judo – Firing high velocity tear gas canisters directly at protestors – whether they are completely non-violent or throwing stones is inappropriate use of this dispersal tool. The person firing has now made it a lethal weapon.

    Firing tear gas when there is no protest under way and directly at medical personnel as they try to remove a wounded individual is also not a ‘humane, non-violent crowd control method’.

    I must also point out that the Israeli forces in the West Bank are not police. Using the term ‘police’ insinuates that they are a domestic, law enforcement agency. Israel occupies the West Bank and IDF soldiers patrol and enforce military objectives there. The forces firing tear gas were not police, but soldiers in occupied territory.

    AI does not ‘unfairly pick’ on Israel. It holds Israel to the same human rights standards that it holds other countries – have you even checked out the AIUSA website http://www.amnestyusa.org or http://www.amnesty.org to see our actions and investigations concerning other countries around the world?

  12. Judo Nimh you seem to forget that all of this happened on territory illegally occupied by Israel. The demonstrators were protesting against the theft of their lands and they have every right to do so. Also these were not “police” who shot the deadly tear gas canisters. They were members of the Israeli Occupying Forces who continued to hurl the canisters even as medics were rushing to help Mr. Anderson.
    Israel, in case you didn’t know, does not want any resistance to its 41 year brutal occupation. In earlier years those who advocated complete non-violence were imprisoned and deported.
    Now Israel greets non-violent demonstrators with tear gas, sound bombs and rubber bullets. These so-called non-lethal weapons have already taken the lives of several Palestinians, some of them children.
    The Israeli army invites rock throwing whenever they come onto lands where they don’t belong.
    I am Jewish and I would likely throw a rock if someone came to take away my lands. That is the least I would do.
    And what would you do if a gang of occupiers came to take your land, your home and your livelihood. Just smile and say “take it?” I doubt it.
    As a supporter of Amnesty International, I am grateful that Amnesty is doing whatever it can to expose to the world what Israel is doing to the Palestinians who are victims of Israeli expansionism and greed.

  13. So you admit the crowd threw rocks. Good, we are making progress.

    Now, are large rocks launched hundreds of feet from slings by skilled rock throwers not considered by you to be as equally lethal projectiles as misfired tear gas canisters ? Tear gas canisters and well thrown rocks can both cause death if bad luck allows a direct strike to the forehead.

    So then you have to admit the crowd was using potentially lethal force against the soldiers, and so you must also admit that under international law the soldiers had every legal right in that case to act in self defense. Yet the soldiers responded with a method very rarely documented to cause serious injury, a method in use by police forces across the western democratic world.

    Clearly the use of tear gas instead of live ammunition in the face of what you admit was use of lethal force by the crowd shows the intent of the soldiers was to preserve life of the demonstrators, not take life.

    And by the way, the heavily edited video ( and what was edited from it that the Palestinians do not want seen ???) that has been released so far shows all the medics loading the victim into the stretcher were clearly wearing gas masks so any tear gas shot by the Israelis wouldn’t have bothered them from preforming a rescue in the slightest. If the Israelis were supposedly close enough to have aimed deliberately at the victim with the tear gas canister then they would have been close enough to see the medics were all wearing gas masks, and then they would have known the tear gas wouldn’t bother the rescuers? Right?

    And AI is not fair to Israel. For just one example among many that show how you unfairly pick on it, you just called for an arms embargo on Israel and Gaza. Well, what about the fact that Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran amongst others are still in states of full declared war against Israel, and in fact have made calls to genocide against Israel in most cases, but you do not call for arms embargo against these counties too. So, you call Israel to be defenseless against these countries by not being able to import arms, but as far as AI is concerned these dictatorships whom you yourselves document to be the worst human rights violators in the world can go ahead and import all the offensive weaponry they want. This is just one example of why you are seen as biased. This is a huge tragedy, because if you made an attempt to be at least somewhat evenhanded you could actually have had a huge influence for the good in the vibrant democracy and free press of Israel.

  14. I was present in Ni’lin last autumn, before the distraction of the invasion of Gaza allowed the IDF to attack Palestinian protesters away from the eyes of the world. I can assure Judo that the soldiers fire their tear gas without provocation, whether little boys are throwing rocks at them or not. I was part of a group helping the Palestiniand to pick their own olives, in their own olive groves, and we were tear-gassed as we walked towards the groves. Our party contained many Israeli families, with young children, who had come to help. The soldiers were in no danger, they just wanted to demonstrate their power. I have seen them, on another occasion, fire tear-gas and rubber-coated steel bullets at peaceful(non-rock-hurling) protesters, while they were praying on their own land.
    On one point I agree with you – no-one should be allowed to import arms. Then both sides could sit down and talk, but while the arms dealers carry on their obscene trade there will be no peace anywhere.

  15. Just to clarify about arms embargo on Israel/Hamas:

    - It was found that all parties of the conflict were misusing foreign supplied weapons during the Gaza attacks from Dec. 27th – Jan. 17th so a comprehensive arms embargo was called on both Israel and armed Palestinian groups, including Hamas.

    - The assertion that the arms embargo would leave Israel defenseless is not credible as Israel is one of the top 10 weapons producers and exporters. It also holds the 'deterrent' card with nuclear capabilities and Israel, as the largest recipient of military assistance from the US, retains a stockpile and has powerful allies if seriously threatened who would come to Israel's defense if there was anything in the wind.

    - The arms embargo is not called to be a permanent condition, but "… until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons or munitions and other military equipment will not be used to commit serious violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law. This must include ensuring that alleged violations are thoroughly and impartially investigated and accountability, with any persons who are found responsible being brought to justice in fair trials."

    The aim is not to leave any party without 'defense', but to have safeguards put in place to ensure these weapons won't be misused again. The lenth of the embargo would therefore be controlled by Israel, Hamas, arms exporters to Israel such as the US … It is their responsibility to put the safeguards in place.

    - AI is not 'picking on Israel'. In recent years, Amnesty has also called for or supported an arms embargo on Myanmar, Nepal, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Somalia, Sudan, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Chad, Burundi, Angola, and Zimbabwe. In 2004, we opposed the lifting of the European Union arms embargo on China. We did not pull this recommendation out only for Israel, but use it as a legitimate recommendation when conditions warrant such.

  16. 1) Amnesty International campaigns for all parties to a conflict (including governments) to respect the rule of law not 'to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence'. See http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/about-amnest

    2) Not true that 'neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah'. AI called for an arms embargo on both Israel and Hezbollah during Lebanon War of 2006.

    3) Judo once again repeats untruth that 'Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard'. Once again I'll repeat that Amnesty called for a comprehensive arms embargo on all parties to the Gaza crisis – Israel and armed Palestinian groups including Hamas.

  17. Not "little boys throwing rocks" ,

    The article by Edith above quotes an eye witness as admiting "stone throwers" were attacking soldiers. If the eyewitness had felt this were just harmelss little children flinging pebbles he would have said so. Instead, Edith herself included a quote from the victims friends admitting the victim was in a demonstration that included "stone throwers".

    Plenty of videos on the web from the dozens of weekly Niilm demonstrations over the last year show "stone throwers" whom are military age adult males hurling baseball sized rocks from slings hundreds of feet, often from within the midst of large menacing crowds numbering in the hundreds as was the situation last week when the victim was injured.

    If misfired tear gas canisters are to now be considered lethal force by AI because in 1 out 10,000 or so uses of tear gas by the Israelis a person is seriously injured, then organized rock throwing is for sure "lethal force" and under international law the soldiers have the legal right to self defense, and firing tear gas, a usually non-lethal humane technology was completely legal and justified.

    AI should congratulate Israeli for at least trying to use non-violent means against demonstrators like tear gas and sound grenades to avoid loss of life of demonstrators. Isn't that what AI is all about, isn't that AI's whole mission, namely to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence?

    Instead, bizarrely, AI, in direct contravention of AI's own purpose, condemns Israel because, when responding to what you admit is lethal force from "stone throwers" a tear gas canister, supplied to soldiers by the Israeli Army for the express purpose of reducing death and injury, is misfired and with terrible bad luck hits a person right in the forehead.

    And as far as AI's unfairness to Israel, the example of unfairness in arms embargo calls stands, as I say, AI has called for embargoes against Israel and Gaza, but not against the 19 out of 21 members of the Arab League who are all still in declared states of war with Israel, and neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah, who's chairman as recently as yesterday went on Lebanese TV and called for genocide against Israel. Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard.

    .

  18. 1) Amnesty International campaigns for all parties to a conflict (including governments) to respect the rule of law not 'to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence'. See http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/about-amnest

    2) Not true that 'neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah'. AI called for an arms embargo on both Israel and Hezbollah during Lebanon War of 2006.

    3) Judo once again repeats untruth that 'Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard'. Once again I'll repeat that Amnesty called for a comprehensive arms embargo on all parties to the Gaza crisis – Israel and armed Palestinian groups including Hamas.

  19. 1) Amnesty International campaigns for all parties to a conflict (including governments) to respect the rule of law not 'to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence'. See http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/about-amnest

    2) Not true that 'neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah'. AI called for an arms embargo on both Israel and Hezbollah during Lebanon War of 2006.

    3) Judo once again repeats untruth that 'Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard'. Once again I'll repeat that Amnesty called for a comprehensive arms embargo on all parties to the Gaza crisis – Israel and armed Palestinian groups including Hamas.

  20. So if respecting the rule of law is what you are about, then how was Israel not "respecting the rule of law" in this case?

    You admit in your own article, and the victims friends admit that the victim knowingly joined a large crowd, entered an area well known to the crowd to be a closed military zone, and the crowd engaged soldiers in violent attacks with potential lethal barrages of rocks throughout the day.

    So in this case, by your own admission that rocks were being thrown, and under international law, the soldiers were being subjected to lethal force by the crowd and had a legal right to self defend themselves from being killed by the protestors. Do you deny this obvious statement of fact?

    And what reason would Israel have to train these soldiers in non-violent crowd control and equip them with tear gas and noise grenades except for the express purpose of complying with international humanitarian law re the obligation to avoid casulties if possible. Do you deny this?

    Yet when one errant tear gas canister out of ten of thousand fired injures a demonstrator, AI declares this use of tear gas, intended by Israel to comply with international law, as a crime.

    Don't you have worse atrocities to worry about somewhere else on earth than attacking Israel because a legally used non-violent crowd control measure meant to save lives and comply with the law malfunctioned and unintentionally injured a person?

    For example Medicine Sans Frontiers reported that in January that UN peacekeepers in Eastern Congo knowingly refused to intervene in a massacre of 5000 villages and that the UN intentionally allowed these people to be killed.

    AI has not even mentioned UN complicity in this atrocity, this murder of 5000 innocents anywhere, but yet you devote a whole blog to one guy getting accidentally hit by a legally deployed riot control measure.

    This is fair?

  21. Just to clarify about arms embargo on Israel/Hamas:

    - It was found that all parties of the conflict were misusing foreign supplied weapons during the Gaza attacks from Dec. 27th – Jan. 17th so a comprehensive arms embargo was called on both Israel and armed Palestinian groups, including Hamas.

    - The assertion that the arms embargo would leave Israel defenseless is not credible as Israel is one of the top 10 weapons producers and exporters. It also holds the ‘deterrent’ card with nuclear capabilities and Israel, as the largest recipient of military assistance from the US, retains a stockpile and has powerful allies if seriously threatened who would come to Israel’s defense if there was anything in the wind.

    - The arms embargo is not called to be a permanent condition, but “… until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons or munitions and other military equipment will not be used to commit serious violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law. This must include ensuring that alleged violations are thoroughly and impartially investigated and accountability, with any persons who are found responsible being brought to justice in fair trials.”

    The aim is not to leave any party without ‘defense’, but to have safeguards put in place to ensure these weapons won’t be misused again. The lenth of the embargo would therefore be controlled by Israel, Hamas, arms exporters to Israel such as the US … It is their responsibility to put the safeguards in place.

    - AI is not ‘picking on Israel’. In recent years, Amnesty has also called for or supported an arms embargo on Myanmar, Nepal, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Somalia, Sudan, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Chad, Burundi, Angola, and Zimbabwe. In 2004, we opposed the lifting of the European Union arms embargo on China. We did not pull this recommendation out only for Israel, but use it as a legitimate recommendation when conditions warrant such.

  22. Not “little boys throwing rocks” ,

    The article by Edith above quotes an eye witness as admiting “stone throwers” were attacking soldiers. If the eyewitness had felt this were just harmelss little children flinging pebbles he would have said so. Instead, Edith herself included a quote from the victims friends admitting the victim was in a demonstration that included “stone throwers”.

    Plenty of videos on the web from the dozens of weekly Niilm demonstrations over the last year show “stone throwers” whom are military age adult males hurling baseball sized rocks from slings hundreds of feet, often from within the midst of large menacing crowds numbering in the hundreds as was the situation last week when the victim was injured.

    If misfired tear gas canisters are to now be considered lethal force by AI because in 1 out 10,000 or so uses of tear gas by the Israelis a person is seriously injured, then organized rock throwing is for sure “lethal force” and under international law the soldiers have the legal right to self defense, and firing tear gas, a usually non-lethal humane technology was completely legal and justified.

    AI should congratulate Israeli for at least trying to use non-violent means against demonstrators like tear gas and sound grenades to avoid loss of life of demonstrators. Isn’t that what AI is all about, isn’t that AI’s whole mission, namely to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence?

    Instead, bizarrely, AI, in direct contravention of AI’s own purpose, condemns Israel because, when responding to what you admit is lethal force from “stone throwers” a tear gas canister, supplied to soldiers by the Israeli Army for the express purpose of reducing death and injury, is misfired and with terrible bad luck hits a person right in the forehead.

    And as far as AI’s unfairness to Israel, the example of unfairness in arms embargo calls stands, as I say, AI has called for embargoes against Israel and Gaza, but not against the 19 out of 21 members of the Arab League who are all still in declared states of war with Israel, and neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah, who’s chairman as recently as yesterday went on Lebanese TV and called for genocide against Israel. Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard.

    .

  23. 1) Amnesty International campaigns for all parties to a conflict (including governments) to respect the rule of law not ‘to try to convince governments to behave more humanely and with less violence’. See http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/about-amnesty-international

    2) Not true that ‘neither has AI ever called for arms embargoes on Iran or Hezbollah’. AI called for an arms embargo on both Israel and Hezbollah during Lebanon War of 2006.

    3) Judo once again repeats untruth that ‘Calling for embargoes against one side only in a conflict is unfair by any standard’. Once again I’ll repeat that Amnesty called for a comprehensive arms embargo on all parties to the Gaza crisis – Israel and armed Palestinian groups including Hamas.

  24. So if respecting the rule of law is what you are about, then how was Israel not “respecting the rule of law” in this case?

    You admit in your own article, and the victims friends admit that the victim knowingly joined a large crowd, entered an area well known to the crowd to be a closed military zone, and the crowd engaged soldiers in violent attacks with potential lethal barrages of rocks throughout the day.

    So in this case, by your own admission that rocks were being thrown, and under international law, the soldiers were being subjected to lethal force by the crowd and had a legal right to self defend themselves from being killed by the protestors. Do you deny this obvious statement of fact?

    And what reason would Israel have to train these soldiers in non-violent crowd control and equip them with tear gas and noise grenades except for the express purpose of complying with international humanitarian law re the obligation to avoid casulties if possible. Do you deny this?

    Yet when one errant tear gas canister out of ten of thousand fired injures a demonstrator, AI declares this use of tear gas, intended by Israel to comply with international law, as a crime.

    Don’t you have worse atrocities to worry about somewhere else on earth than attacking Israel because a legally used non-violent crowd control measure meant to save lives and comply with the law malfunctioned and unintentionally injured a person?

    For example Medicine Sans Frontiers reported that in January that UN peacekeepers in Eastern Congo knowingly refused to intervene in a massacre of 5000 villages and that the UN intentionally allowed these people to be killed.

    AI has not even mentioned UN complicity in this atrocity, this murder of 5000 innocents anywhere, but yet you devote a whole blog to one guy getting accidentally hit by a legally deployed riot control measure.

    This is fair?

  25. Pingback: American Shot in Head by Israeli Forces | Global Investment Watch

  26. Judo – you are using a straw man. You speak off “international law” and assert Israel’s attack on protesters is supported by it. Israel is currently in violation of numerous UN resolutions and international law relating to self determination. The entire occupation, the wall, and the blockades all violate international law. Israel is in the wrong here and the refusal of supporters of the state of Israel to acknowledge Israel’s abuses only serve to create a “pro Israel” and”pro Palestine” camps, pushing out voices for a mutual peace.

  27. Judo, have you been to Nil’in? Have you experienced the ‘non-violent crowd control’ routinely used on Palestinians, whether or not they are throwing rocks? I have, and you are deluding yourself if you think the army are merely defending themselves. The tear-gas canisters are aimed deliberately at the bodies of people, not used as they should be. Rubber-coated steel bullets cause painful injuries, and on several occasions death. .22 Sniper bullets which the Israeli attourny general outlawed in 2000 are being used again. This is not a case of poor defenceless soldiers against an armed terrorist force. It is ordinary people trying to resist the theft of their land by a heavily armed occupying force.
    If you don’t believe it, go and see for yourself what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. If you can’t face it, or be bothered, read Seth Freedman’s book ‘Can I bring my own Gun’ which follows his progress from IDF soldier to Palestinian sympathiser. You might learn something.

  28. It is all about land theft supposedly according to Rachel’s propaganda.
    In reality, and not make believe, Israel is building this fence to prevent suicide bombings on civilians and since this fence was built the attacks have decreased by 95% or more.

    Rachel I will ask you a question, have you been to a suicide bombing? Have you, for the crime of riding to work on a civilian bus, or the crime of taking your baby granddaughter to get an ice cream cone or the crime of going with your teenage friends to a disco on Saturday night had your body, those of your parent or your children or your best friend ripped to shreds from a nail packed bomb. Have you for the evil crime of being a Jewish civilian going about your daily life within the ’67 borders had your arms and legs torn off, your eyes ripped from your skull, your skin burnt off your body? Israeli civilians were subjected to H U N D E R E D S of suicide attacks and this fence has completely succeeded in bringing this to an end. That is the purpose of this wall. Period.

    And that should be a result AI supports, not hypocritically condemns. What is a bigger human rights violation anyways, having a few acres of stony fields sit across a temporary movable fence for a few years until your leaders are finally willing to negotiate to get it back in return for peace, or having your face ripped off your skull by a Hamas suicide bomber while you were sitting in a pizza parlor ?

    This is a completely temporary movable barrier intended for Israeli civilian protection from suicide attacks, and if and when the day comes when the Arabs are willing to negotiate an end to the conflict access to the farm land across the fence can easily be returned to Niilim.

    Can you so easily put the head back on the body a dead Jewish baby who would have been decapitated by a suicide bomber if this barrier had not been built ?

  29. Pingback: J-Dubs’ Rambles » Blog Archive » Oakland Activist Shot by the Israeli Army

  30. Judo, Israel is using the apartheid wall as a land grab. There would be no problem if this wall were built on the 1967 line but Israel has chosen in many areas to take it deep into Palestinian lands cutting off families from their lands, their schools. The city of Qalqilyah, once the bread basket for the West Bank, is slowly dying as the wall has cut the people off from their farm lands. Throughout the illegally occupied territories more and more people are losing their lands, their homes and their water resources.

    You decry suicide bombings and so do I. But you must remember that the first suicide bombing came after the Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldman murdered at least 30 Muslims at prayer in Hebron. Was his house demolished? Were the Jews of Hebron punished? Not at all. But the Palestinian population of Hebron was all put under curfew for weeks and confined to their homes. The victims received the punishment while the terrorist has a monument to his honor in one of the illegal settlements.

    What do you expect Palestinians to do as they see their homes and lands stolen away from them? Do you expect them just to sit by and take it as they see their hopes and dreams die? Do you not know that Israel punishes any kind of resistance to their brutal and thuggish occupation? Do you know that in the 1980s those who advocated and worked for non-violent resistance were jailed and/or deported?

    From the very beginning Israel never intended to give back the land or the precious water resources which have gone to fill the pools of settlements and water the lawns while Palestinian taps run dry in the summer.

    As for Palestinian negotiations, it is obvious that Israel has never negotiated in good faith for, if they had, they would not have continued building settlements. In 1988 Arafat recognized Israel and a two-state solution. Where did that get the Palestinians? Nowhere but to a badly named "peace process" which Israel damaged by the doubling of the number of settlements. I remember when in the late 1990s, then Housing Minister Ariel Sharon announced that Israel would be creating "facts on the ground" by greatly increasing the number of settlements. If I, as an American Jew, knew that Israel was being insincere in the "peace process," certainly the Palestinians had to know that as well.

    And please don't demean yourself by speaking of Israel's "generous offer." This offer was nothing more than a few walled in South Africa type bantustans where Israel would control every thing but garbage collection much in the way that Israel set up the Gaza prison.

    Judo, if you are sincere about wanting peace how about holding Israel responsible for carving up the West Bank so that it looks like a teen agers face with a bad case of acne. The Palestinians are not going to go away on their own as much as you and far too many Israelis would like them to do.
    You'd better make peace but peace won't come as long as Israel occupies the West Bank and continues to make life absolutely miserable for the vast majority of Palestinians, most of whom do not pick up rocks or put on a suicide belt.

    Finally, given what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for the past several decades I find it amazing that there has not been more violent resistance. I wonder if you would stand for living under the jackboot of an occupying army and just take it. Not too many would.

  31. If Israel (and again, not all Israelies) were so innocent and acting in self defense why would anyone just react without cause? I will quote, from words spoken:

    "Rachel I will ask you a question, have you been to a suicide bombing? Have you, for the crime of riding to work on a civilian bus, or the crime of taking your baby granddaughter to get an ice cream cone or the crime of going with your teenage friends to a disco on Saturday night had your body, those of your parent or your children or your best friend ripped to shreds from a nail packed bomb. Have you for the evil crime of being a Jewish civilian going about your daily life within the ‘67 borders had your arms and legs torn off, your eyes ripped from your skull, your skin burnt off your body? Israeli civilians were subjected to H U N D E R E D S of suicide attacks and this fence has completely succeeded in bringing this to an end. That is the purpose of this wall. Period."

    I ask, have you ever been sitting in your home when a tank decides to ride through your town and for no reason open fire into your home? Have you been on the beach enjoying a family day when a ship from the sea opens fire and kills your mother, father, infants, children and had to whatch a child run to their father who is lying dead screaming "father, father" and know that child is now without any family at all? Have you lived under occupation (regardless of what you deem the cause to be) and over 20 years later wake up in the middle of the night screaming and crying because of the memories of dead family members in your mind and a fear that never ceases? Oh, and what about the Palestinian families that have carried small children in their arms with their face so distorted that they are unrecognizeable? Guess you are seeing and telling only one side of the story, but there is two sides!!!!! Is it worth it? Every action creates a reaction.

    You know what it is, Palestinians are strong! You might build your wall, shoot your tanks into Gaza and the West Bank, but I will bet my life you will never kill their spirit or their unity. It's such a shame that there are members on both sides, Israel and Palestine who truely want peace and want to live in harmony and poor choices from both sides makes everyone else suffer. I might throw a stone, or as some say, a huge rock like a bolder (if I could lift it) at my neighbor, but it's a little funny this could be compared to guns, tear gas, rubber bullets, and army tanks. That seems like a fight with an adult and a toddler….totally mismatched.

    Remove the illegal settlements, stop the occupation and then you won't have to worry about going for an ice cream and neither will they. I am sure you have seen and endured all the things mentioned above, but be honest. Tell the other side, tell what the Palestinians have also endured. I challenge you for the truth. I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand that after so much pain one can become capable of unimaginable things. Take the wall from their land, remove the settlements, and stop the occupation and give those credit on both sides who are trying to promote peace. You can't move forward with the future as long as you view yourself as a victim and live in the past. What is done is done and future deaths on either side is just crazy!

  32. Judo, Israel is using the apartheid wall as a land grab. There would be no problem if this wall were built on the 1967 line but Israel has chosen in many areas to take it deep into Palestinian lands cutting off families from their lands, their schools. The city of Qalqilyah, once the bread basket for the West Bank, is slowly dying as the wall has cut the people off from their farm lands. Throughout the illegally occupied territories more and more people are losing their lands, their homes and their water resources.

    You decry suicide bombings and so do I. But you must remember that the first suicide bombing came after the Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldman murdered at least 30 Muslims at prayer in Hebron. Was his house demolished? Were the Jews of Hebron punished? Not at all. But the Palestinian population of Hebron was all put under curfew for weeks and confined to their homes. The victims received the punishment while the terrorist has a monument to his honor in one of the illegal settlements.

    What do you expect Palestinians to do as they see their homes and lands stolen away from them? Do you expect them just to sit by and take it as they see their hopes and dreams die? Do you not know that Israel punishes any kind of resistance to their brutal and thuggish occupation? Do you know that in the 1980s those who advocated and worked for non-violent resistance were jailed and/or deported?

    From the very beginning Israel never intended to give back the land or the precious water resources which have gone to fill the pools of settlements and water the lawns while Palestinian taps run dry in the summer.

    As for Palestinian negotiations, it is obvious that Israel has never negotiated in good faith for, if they had, they would not have continued building settlements. In 1988 Arafat recognized Israel and a two-state solution. Where did that get the Palestinians? Nowhere but to a badly named “peace process” which Israel damaged by the doubling of the number of settlements. I remember when in the late 1990s, then Housing Minister Ariel Sharon announced that Israel would be creating “facts on the ground” by greatly increasing the number of settlements. If I, as an American Jew, knew that Israel was being insincere in the “peace process,” certainly the Palestinians had to know that as well.

    And please don’t demean yourself by speaking of Israel’s “generous offer.” This offer was nothing more than a few walled in South Africa type bantustans where Israel would control every thing but garbage collection much in the way that Israel set up the Gaza prison.

    Judo, if you are sincere about wanting peace how about holding Israel responsible for carving up the West Bank so that it looks like a teen agers face with a bad case of acne. The Palestinians are not going to go away on their own as much as you and far too many Israelis would like them to do.
    You’d better make peace but peace won’t come as long as Israel occupies the West Bank and continues to make life absolutely miserable for the vast majority of Palestinians, most of whom do not pick up rocks or put on a suicide belt.

    Finally, given what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for the past several decades I find it amazing that there has not been more violent resistance. I wonder if you would stand for living under the jackboot of an occupying army and just take it. Not too many would.

  33. If Israel (and again, not all Israelies) were so innocent and acting in self defense why would anyone just react without cause? I will quote, from words spoken:

    “Rachel I will ask you a question, have you been to a suicide bombing? Have you, for the crime of riding to work on a civilian bus, or the crime of taking your baby granddaughter to get an ice cream cone or the crime of going with your teenage friends to a disco on Saturday night had your body, those of your parent or your children or your best friend ripped to shreds from a nail packed bomb. Have you for the evil crime of being a Jewish civilian going about your daily life within the ‘67 borders had your arms and legs torn off, your eyes ripped from your skull, your skin burnt off your body? Israeli civilians were subjected to H U N D E R E D S of suicide attacks and this fence has completely succeeded in bringing this to an end. That is the purpose of this wall. Period.”

    I ask, have you ever been sitting in your home when a tank decides to ride through your town and for no reason open fire into your home? Have you been on the beach enjoying a family day when a ship from the sea opens fire and kills your mother, father, infants, children and had to whatch a child run to their father who is lying dead screaming “father, father” and know that child is now without any family at all? Have you lived under occupation (regardless of what you deem the cause to be) and over 20 years later wake up in the middle of the night screaming and crying because of the memories of dead family members in your mind and a fear that never ceases? Oh, and what about the Palestinian families that have carried small children in their arms with their face so distorted that they are unrecognizeable? Guess you are seeing and telling only one side of the story, but there is two sides!!!!! Is it worth it? Every action creates a reaction.

    You know what it is, Palestinians are strong! You might build your wall, shoot your tanks into Gaza and the West Bank, but I will bet my life you will never kill their spirit or their unity. It’s such a shame that there are members on both sides, Israel and Palestine who truely want peace and want to live in harmony and poor choices from both sides makes everyone else suffer. I might throw a stone, or as some say, a huge rock like a bolder (if I could lift it) at my neighbor, but it’s a little funny this could be compared to guns, tear gas, rubber bullets, and army tanks. That seems like a fight with an adult and a toddler….totally mismatched.

    Remove the illegal settlements, stop the occupation and then you won’t have to worry about going for an ice cream and neither will they. I am sure you have seen and endured all the things mentioned above, but be honest. Tell the other side, tell what the Palestinians have also endured. I challenge you for the truth. I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand that after so much pain one can become capable of unimaginable things. Take the wall from their land, remove the settlements, and stop the occupation and give those credit on both sides who are trying to promote peace. You can’t move forward with the future as long as you view yourself as a victim and live in the past. What is done is done and future deaths on either side is just crazy!

  34. Judo, I don't know if you will dare to come back again and try to defend Israel's inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. But, if you do, you had better understand that Israel routinely uses tear gas, sound bombs and rubber bullets whenever it wants to keep Palestinians from doing anything. Not long ago I saw a film, taken by an Jewish Israeli woman, of a group of high school girls attempting to go to school. No one had a rock in her hand, only school books. Some IDF thugs decided that it was time to block the road so that the girls could not go to school. But these brave young woman kept on walking only to be met with a volley of tear gas.
    But I guess that is OK with you because you probably believe that whatever an IDF soldier does is perfectly fine. I suggest that you check out an Israel group of former IDF members called Breaking the Silence. They will tell you of the terrible things they have done. But maybe you just don't want to know or just don't care.

  35. Judo, I don’t know if you will dare to come back again and try to defend Israel’s inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. But, if you do, you had better understand that Israel routinely uses tear gas, sound bombs and rubber bullets whenever it wants to keep Palestinians from doing anything. Not long ago I saw a film, taken by an Jewish Israeli woman, of a group of high school girls attempting to go to school. No one had a rock in her hand, only school books. Some IDF thugs decided that it was time to block the road so that the girls could not go to school. But these brave young woman kept on walking only to be met with a volley of tear gas.
    But I guess that is OK with you because you probably believe that whatever an IDF soldier does is perfectly fine. I suggest that you check out an Israel group of former IDF members called Breaking the Silence. They will tell you of the terrible things they have done. But maybe you just don’t want to know or just don’t care.

  36. Jan
    So you saw a well edited propaganda film and are now convinced one side is totally right and the other is totally wrong. AI is supposed to be more fact based than that. AI is supposed to be about monitoring if governments around the world follow thier own laws, and also humanitarian and international law.

    This means using hard objective evidence of if a law has been broken or not, not just basing their stance on a automatic prejudiced opinion that Israel is always wrong no matter what as you do Jan.

    In this particular case, a foreigner traveled across the world to join a demonstration and was seriously injured. Did a crime occur here in this particular case. That is the question AI must examine based on evidence. What evidence is there about this case?

    1) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above admit the crowd of up to 400 entered a military zone to confront soldiers and at least some rioters were throwing rocks at them. This is illegal and potentially lethal violence on the part of those Palestinian and foreigner rock throwers which AI can not condone. It puts the soldiers in legitimate fear for their lives and gives them a legal right to respond with at the very least tear gas. Responding to rock throwers with tear gas is 100% legal under all international and humanitarian law, and police in any western democracy would do at least the same.

    2) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above claim the Israelis were "stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.". If this were true, as the author of this blogs claims, it turns the tear gas canisters into a possibly lethal projectile and makes its use questionable.
    The big problem with this is that the video included with the article above clearly shows that the Palestinians were standing on the hill, and it was the Israelis who were down the hill. The video clip above shows the ground slopping sharply downhill in the direction where the gas canisters are being fired from, and the trail of the gas canisters shows them coming from down the hill towards the rock throwing rioters. You can see the roofs of other houses downhill from the site of the injury in the background of the video. The victim was on top of the hill, not the Israelis. So it is as clear as day to anyone who watches this video with one ounce of honesty that the witness quoted in this article is a LIAR, and that the Israeli soldiers getting smashed with rocks were down at the bottom of the hill and the rioters were dropping rocks on their heads from above. Aside from everything else, since she has been caught red handed lying by video evidence, it makes all the other accusations seem like lies too.

    3) The author of this blog if I understand her, claims it was somehow improper for the Israelis to continue to fire tear gas as the victim was being evacuated. But another bit of evidence from the video is that all the Palestinians in the video assisting the guy were wearing gas masks. So the gas was not even bothering the rescue of the victim.

    So based on the evidence, such as the eyewitness testimony from the victims friends and the video, it seems clear that the large crowd was throwing rocks, and from the video it is obvious that the victim was up the hill from the Israelis, not below as the lying witness quoted in the article lies about, and that the Palestinians all seem to have gas masks.

    The evidence all points to the Israeli soldiers at the bottom of a valley who had their lives endangered by rioters raining rocks down on their heads from above, and who then responded in legal self defense with a non-violent humane tear gas, and someone accidentally got injured.

    Where is the international law breaking here, except that by the rioters?

  37. The international law-breaking is the route of the barrier, which has also been ruled illegal by the Israeli supreme court. The Israeli law-makers are routinely ignored by the government and the military, but they still are the law. The settlements are illegal under international law.

    I suspect, as I said before, you have not been to Nil'in. Your observations on the topography make no sense if you have.

    Having been tear-gassed there by your poor little soldiers while standing on a hill watching quietly, with one other person, neither of us throwing stones or being near anyone else who was, I have less sympathy for them than you do. No doubt they thought that two elderly unarmed Englishwomen might be able to damage them despite their steel helmets and full body armour.

    I went to the West Bank prepared to see both sides. I came away understanding completely why any Palestinian would be angry enough to attack Israelis. I do not in any way condone suicide bombings or other aggression, but I live in a civilised country. Israel cannot be described as such.

  38. Jan
    So you saw a well edited propaganda film and are now convinced one side is totally right and the other is totally wrong. AI is supposed to be more fact based than that. AI is supposed to be about monitoring if governments around the world follow thier own laws, and also humanitarian and international law.

    This means using hard objective evidence of if a law has been broken or not, not just basing their stance on a automatic prejudiced opinion that Israel is always wrong no matter what as you do Jan.

    In this particular case, a foreigner traveled across the world to join a demonstration and was seriously injured. Did a crime occur here in this particular case. That is the question AI must examine based on evidence. What evidence is there about this case?

    1) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above admit the crowd of up to 400 entered a military zone to confront soldiers and at least some rioters were throwing rocks at them. This is illegal and potentially lethal violence on the part of those Palestinian and foreigner rock throwers which AI can not condone. It puts the soldiers in legitimate fear for their lives and gives them a legal right to respond with at the very least tear gas. Responding to rock throwers with tear gas is 100% legal under all international and humanitarian law, and police in any western democracy would do at least the same.

    2) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above claim the Israelis were “stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.”. If this were true, as the author of this blogs claims, it turns the tear gas canisters into a possibly lethal projectile and makes its use questionable.
    The big problem with this is that the video included with the article above clearly shows that the Palestinians were standing on the hill, and it was the Israelis who were down the hill. The video clip above shows the ground slopping sharply downhill in the direction where the gas canisters are being fired from, and the trail of the gas canisters shows them coming from down the hill towards the rock throwing rioters. You can see the roofs of other houses downhill from the site of the injury in the background of the video. The victim was on top of the hill, not the Israelis. So it is as clear as day to anyone who watches this video with one ounce of honesty that the witness quoted in this article is a LIAR, and that the Israeli soldiers getting smashed with rocks were down at the bottom of the hill and the rioters were dropping rocks on their heads from above. Aside from everything else, since she has been caught red handed lying by video evidence, it makes all the other accusations seem like lies too.

    3) The author of this blog if I understand her, claims it was somehow improper for the Israelis to continue to fire tear gas as the victim was being evacuated. But another bit of evidence from the video is that all the Palestinians in the video assisting the guy were wearing gas masks. So the gas was not even bothering the rescue of the victim.

    So based on the evidence, such as the eyewitness testimony from the victims friends and the video, it seems clear that the large crowd was throwing rocks, and from the video it is obvious that the victim was up the hill from the Israelis, not below as the lying witness quoted in the article lies about, and that the Palestinians all seem to have gas masks.

    The evidence all points to the Israeli soldiers at the bottom of a valley who had their lives endangered by rioters raining rocks down on their heads from above, and who then responded in legal self defense with a non-violent humane tear gas, and someone accidentally got injured.

    Where is the international law breaking here, except that by the rioters?

  39. Jan
    So you saw a well edited propaganda film and are now convinced one side is totally right and the other is totally wrong. AI is supposed to be more fact based than that. AI is supposed to be about monitoring if governments around the world follow thier own laws, and also humanitarian and international law.

    This means using hard objective evidence of if a law has been broken or not, not just basing their stance on a automatic prejudiced opinion that Israel is always wrong no matter what as you do Jan.

    In this particular case, a foreigner traveled across the world to join a demonstration and was seriously injured. Did a crime occur here in this particular case. That is the question AI must examine based on evidence. What evidence is there about this case?

    1) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above admit the crowd of up to 400 entered a military zone to confront soldiers and at least some rioters were throwing rocks at them. This is illegal and potentially lethal violence on the part of those Palestinian and foreigner rock throwers which AI can not condone. It puts the soldiers in legitimate fear for their lives and gives them a legal right to respond with at the very least tear gas. Responding to rock throwers with tear gas is 100% legal under all international and humanitarian law, and police in any western democracy would do at least the same.

    2) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above claim the Israelis were “stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.”. If this were true, as the author of this blogs claims, it turns the tear gas canisters into a possibly lethal projectile and makes its use questionable.
    The big problem with this is that the video included with the article above clearly shows that the Palestinians were standing on the hill, and it was the Israelis who were down the hill. The video clip above shows the ground slopping sharply downhill in the direction where the gas canisters are being fired from, and the trail of the gas canisters shows them coming from down the hill towards the rock throwing rioters. You can see the roofs of other houses downhill from the site of the injury in the background of the video. The victim was on top of the hill, not the Israelis. So it is as clear as day to anyone who watches this video with one ounce of honesty that the witness quoted in this article is a LIAR, and that the Israeli soldiers getting smashed with rocks were down at the bottom of the hill and the rioters were dropping rocks on their heads from above. Aside from everything else, since she has been caught red handed lying by video evidence, it makes all the other accusations seem like lies too.

    3) The author of this blog if I understand her, claims it was somehow improper for the Israelis to continue to fire tear gas as the victim was being evacuated. But another bit of evidence from the video is that all the Palestinians in the video assisting the guy were wearing gas masks. So the gas was not even bothering the rescue of the victim.

    So based on the evidence, such as the eyewitness testimony from the victims friends and the video, it seems clear that the large crowd was throwing rocks, and from the video it is obvious that the victim was up the hill from the Israelis, not below as the lying witness quoted in the article lies about, and that the Palestinians all seem to have gas masks.

    The evidence all points to the Israeli soldiers at the bottom of a valley who had their lives endangered by rioters raining rocks down on their heads from above, and who then responded in legal self defense with a non-violent humane tear gas, and someone accidentally got injured.

    Where is the international law breaking here, except that by the rioters?

  40. Jan
    So you saw a well edited propaganda film and are now convinced one side is totally right and the other is totally wrong. AI is supposed to be more fact based than that. AI is supposed to be about monitoring if governments around the world follow thier own laws, and also humanitarian and international law.

    This means using hard objective evidence of if a law has been broken or not, not just basing their stance on a automatic prejudiced opinion that Israel is always wrong no matter what as you do Jan.

    In this particular case, a foreigner traveled across the world to join a demonstration and was seriously injured. Did a crime occur here in this particular case. That is the question AI must examine based on evidence. What evidence is there about this case?

    1) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above admit the crowd of up to 400 entered a military zone to confront soldiers and at least some rioters were throwing rocks at them. This is illegal and potentially lethal violence on the part of those Palestinian and foreigner rock throwers which AI can not condone. It puts the soldiers in legitimate fear for their lives and gives them a legal right to respond with at the very least tear gas. Responding to rock throwers with tear gas is 100% legal under all international and humanitarian law, and police in any western democracy would do at least the same.

    2) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above claim the Israelis were “stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.”. If this were true, as the author of this blogs claims, it turns the tear gas canisters into a possibly lethal projectile and makes its use questionable.
    The big problem with this is that the video included with the article above clearly shows that the Palestinians were standing on the hill, and it was the Israelis who were down the hill. The video clip above shows the ground slopping sharply downhill in the direction where the gas canisters are being fired from, and the trail of the gas canisters shows them coming from down the hill towards the rock throwing rioters. You can see the roofs of other houses downhill from the site of the injury in the background of the video. The victim was on top of the hill, not the Israelis. So it is as clear as day to anyone who watches this video with one ounce of honesty that the witness quoted in this article is a LIAR, and that the Israeli soldiers getting smashed with rocks were down at the bottom of the hill and the rioters were dropping rocks on their heads from above. Aside from everything else, since she has been caught red handed lying by video evidence, it makes all the other accusations seem like lies too.

    3) The author of this blog if I understand her, claims it was somehow improper for the Israelis to continue to fire tear gas as the victim was being evacuated. But another bit of evidence from the video is that all the Palestinians in the video assisting the guy were wearing gas masks. So the gas was not even bothering the rescue of the victim.

    So based on the evidence, such as the eyewitness testimony from the victims friends and the video, it seems clear that the large crowd was throwing rocks, and from the video it is obvious that the victim was up the hill from the Israelis, not below as the lying witness quoted in the article lies about, and that the Palestinians all seem to have gas masks.

    The evidence all points to the Israeli soldiers at the bottom of a valley who had their lives endangered by rioters raining rocks down on their heads from above, and who then responded in legal self defense with a non-violent humane tear gas, and someone accidentally got injured.

    Where is the international law breaking here, except that by the rioters?

  41. Jan
    So you saw a well edited propaganda film and are now convinced one side is totally right and the other is totally wrong. AI is supposed to be more fact based than that. AI is supposed to be about monitoring if governments around the world follow thier own laws, and also humanitarian and international law.

    This means using hard objective evidence of if a law has been broken or not, not just basing their stance on a automatic prejudiced opinion that Israel is always wrong no matter what as you do Jan.

    In this particular case, a foreigner traveled across the world to join a demonstration and was seriously injured. Did a crime occur here in this particular case. That is the question AI must examine based on evidence. What evidence is there about this case?

    1) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above admit the crowd of up to 400 entered a military zone to confront soldiers and at least some rioters were throwing rocks at them. This is illegal and potentially lethal violence on the part of those Palestinian and foreigner rock throwers which AI can not condone. It puts the soldiers in legitimate fear for their lives and gives them a legal right to respond with at the very least tear gas. Responding to rock throwers with tear gas is 100% legal under all international and humanitarian law, and police in any western democracy would do at least the same.

    2) Witnesses, friends of the victim, quoted in the article above claim the Israelis were “stationed on a hill overlooking the protest and the protest had already begun to disperse when a tear gas canister was fired directly at people.”. If this were true, as the author of this blogs claims, it turns the tear gas canisters into a possibly lethal projectile and makes its use questionable.
    The big problem with this is that the video included with the article above clearly shows that the Palestinians were standing on the hill, and it was the Israelis who were down the hill. The video clip above shows the ground slopping sharply downhill in the direction where the gas canisters are being fired from, and the trail of the gas canisters shows them coming from down the hill towards the rock throwing rioters. You can see the roofs of other houses downhill from the site of the injury in the background of the video. The victim was on top of the hill, not the Israelis. So it is as clear as day to anyone who watches this video with one ounce of honesty that the witness quoted in this article is a LIAR, and that the Israeli soldiers getting smashed with rocks were down at the bottom of the hill and the rioters were dropping rocks on their heads from above. Aside from everything else, since she has been caught red handed lying by video evidence, it makes all the other accusations seem like lies too.

    3) The author of this blog if I understand her, claims it was somehow improper for the Israelis to continue to fire tear gas as the victim was being evacuated. But another bit of evidence from the video is that all the Palestinians in the video assisting the guy were wearing gas masks. So the gas was not even bothering the rescue of the victim.

    So based on the evidence, such as the eyewitness testimony from the victims friends and the video, it seems clear that the large crowd was throwing rocks, and from the video it is obvious that the victim was up the hill from the Israelis, not below as the lying witness quoted in the article lies about, and that the Palestinians all seem to have gas masks.

    The evidence all points to the Israeli soldiers at the bottom of a valley who had their lives endangered by rioters raining rocks down on their heads from above, and who then responded in legal self defense with a non-violent humane tear gas, and someone accidentally got injured.

    Where is the international law breaking here, except that by the rioters?

  42. Judo –

    That you think firing tear gas at medical personnel is ok, let alone when they are attempting to treat a critically wounded person is worrisome.

    That the medical personnel were wearing gas masks is completely irrelevant – one MUST NOT attack medical personnel – they are protected persons under the Geneva Conventions. Matter of fact, that the medical personnel had gas masks available at all and knew to wear them is a sad indicator of the reality there.

  43. The international law-breaking is the route of the barrier, which has also been ruled illegal by the Israeli supreme court. The Israeli law-makers are routinely ignored by the government and the military, but they still are the law. The settlements are illegal under international law.

    I suspect, as I said before, you have not been to Nil’in. Your observations on the topography make no sense if you have.

    Having been tear-gassed there by your poor little soldiers while standing on a hill watching quietly, with one other person, neither of us throwing stones or being near anyone else who was, I have less sympathy for them than you do. No doubt they thought that two elderly unarmed Englishwomen might be able to damage them despite their steel helmets and full body armour.

    I went to the West Bank prepared to see both sides. I came away understanding completely why any Palestinian would be angry enough to attack Israelis. I do not in any way condone suicide bombings or other aggression, but I live in a civilised country. Israel cannot be described as such.

  44. Edie

    First of all, they were not attacking medical personal. The tear gas was fired, the victim was injured, and a rescue began. Any other tear gas during the rescue can be seen in the video landing far beyond the medics, 50 meters or more away from the looks of it.
    Secondly, you are assuming, without a shred of evidence that the Israelis could even see the medical personal and even knew a rescue was under way. The scene of the injury was well blanketed by smoke from the previous tear gas canister.

    And no objective evidence exists as to how far apart the soldiers were to the victim and the medics. Well, except testimony from the same liars have already been caught lying that the Israelis were on top of a hill overlooking the victim when anyone can see in the video the victim was high up on the top of the hill and the soldiers were far down the hill. So you really can't honestly say that in the 60 seconds or that it took for the medical personal to arrive on the scene and load the guy away, heavily obscured as it was by tear gas smoke, that the Israelis down at the bottom of the hill had the time or the ability to realize someone was injured, and a rescue was under way, and that by firing one more tear gas canister 50 meters away from them that they were "attacking medical personal" who were in any event well equipped with gas masks all of them all of them, as the video clearly shows.

    Rachel . The topography is completely visible from Google Earth, and Google Maps. "Ni'lin" is sitting on top of a high hill surrounded by sharp canyons, overlooking the route of the anti-suicide bomber fence. There are NO hills anywhere near Ni'ilin that the Israelis could have been standing on. This is even more evidence, as if you need more when you can see it with your own two eyes in the video, that the victim was high up on top of the hill, and the Israelis were down below in the valley getting rocks dropped on their heads as the victims friends themselves admit was happening.

    Rachel, the fact that you denying that Ni'lim, where the victim was injured sits on the only high hill in the area when we can all see on Google Earth it does in fact, makes me wonder if you were ever really there.

  45. Judo -

    That you think firing tear gas at medical personnel is ok, let alone when they are attempting to treat a critically wounded person is worrisome.

    That the medical personnel were wearing gas masks is completely irrelevant – one MUST NOT attack medical personnel – they are protected persons under the Geneva Conventions. Matter of fact, that the medical personnel had gas masks available at all and knew to wear them is a sad indicator of the reality there.

  46. Edie, Rachel as well as several other commentators have made statements justify and expressing in Rachel's terms "understanding completely" Palestinian suicide bombings. Since you have lectured me on the Geneva Convention, and this is a blog owned by Amnesty International after all, how about you lecture Rachel on her "understanding completely" Palestinian suicide bombing.

    After all Amnesty International itself has called the organized waves of hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings whose thousands of victims were primarily women and children and old people "crimes against humanity".

    The suicide attacks have been stopped completely due to the fact the the passageways into Israel have been blocked by the fence. And even if Rachel and Tristan traveled across the world to protest it, it will not convince Israelis to re-allow suicide bombers into their towns, their supermarkets, their discos or their pizza parlors.

  47. Judo – I'm not quite sure what video you are watching because the video I posted and some of your comments don't match up.

    You are correct in that Amnesty has condemned the campaign of suicide bombings against Israeli civilians as a 'crime against humanity'.

    I chose not to 'lecture' Rachel about suicide bombings because she did not support or advocate for suicide bombings. Matter of fact, she said, "I came away understanding completely why any Palestinian would be angry enough to attack Israelis. I do not in any way condone suicide bombings or other aggression …"

    This is a conclusion she reached after visiting the area and she has the right to say that she can 'understand' why people would feel a certain way or do something. She was not justifying it – to my understanding anyway – simply saying she understood how or why someone would take that action.

    I've not seen anyone (yet) advocate suicide bombings, but I have heard people condone or try to justify rockets being fired from Gaza into southern Israel – or they minimize the effect of these rockets. At those times, I have chosen to 'lecture'. Civilians should never be targetted or attacked indiscriminately or with indiscriminate weapons.

    Also, I wouldn't say that the suicide bombings were stopped completely by the wall as around the time of the beginning of the construction of the wall, Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups had called a hudna – or ceasefire on suicide bombings so to be fair – it was most likely a combination of these two factors as well as a few smaller ones.

  48. Edie

    First of all, they were not attacking medical personal. The tear gas was fired, the victim was injured, and a rescue began. Any other tear gas during the rescue can be seen in the video landing far beyond the medics, 50 meters or more away from the looks of it.
    Secondly, you are assuming, without a shred of evidence that the Israelis could even see the medical personal and even knew a rescue was under way. The scene of the injury was well blanketed by smoke from the previous tear gas canister.

    And no objective evidence exists as to how far apart the soldiers were to the victim and the medics. Well, except testimony from the same liars have already been caught lying that the Israelis were on top of a hill overlooking the victim when anyone can see in the video the victim was high up on the top of the hill and the soldiers were far down the hill. So you really can’t honestly say that in the 60 seconds or that it took for the medical personal to arrive on the scene and load the guy away, heavily obscured as it was by tear gas smoke, that the Israelis down at the bottom of the hill had the time or the ability to realize someone was injured, and a rescue was under way, and that by firing one more tear gas canister 50 meters away from them that they were “attacking medical personal” who were in any event well equipped with gas masks all of them all of them, as the video clearly shows.

    Rachel . The topography is completely visible from Google Earth, and Google Maps. “Ni’lin” is sitting on top of a high hill surrounded by sharp canyons, overlooking the route of the anti-suicide bomber fence. There are NO hills anywhere near Ni’ilin that the Israelis could have been standing on. This is even more evidence, as if you need more when you can see it with your own two eyes in the video, that the victim was high up on top of the hill, and the Israelis were down below in the valley getting rocks dropped on their heads as the victims friends themselves admit was happening.

    Rachel, the fact that you denying that Ni’lim, where the victim was injured sits on the only high hill in the area when we can all see on Google Earth it does in fact, makes me wonder if you were ever really there.

  49. Edie, Rachel as well as several other commentators have made statements justify and expressing in Rachel’s terms “understanding completely” Palestinian suicide bombings. Since you have lectured me on the Geneva Convention, and this is a blog owned by Amnesty International after all, how about you lecture Rachel on her “understanding completely” Palestinian suicide bombing.

    After all Amnesty International itself has called the organized waves of hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings whose thousands of victims were primarily women and children and old people “crimes against humanity”.

    The suicide attacks have been stopped completely due to the fact the the passageways into Israel have been blocked by the fence. And even if Rachel and Tristan traveled across the world to protest it, it will not convince Israelis to re-allow suicide bombers into their towns, their supermarkets, their discos or their pizza parlors.

  50. Judo – I’m not quite sure what video you are watching because the video I posted and some of your comments don’t match up.

    You are correct in that Amnesty has condemned the campaign of suicide bombings against Israeli civilians as a ‘crime against humanity’.

    I chose not to ‘lecture’ Rachel about suicide bombings because she did not support or advocate for suicide bombings. Matter of fact, she said, “I came away understanding completely why any Palestinian would be angry enough to attack Israelis. I do not in any way condone suicide bombings or other aggression …”

    This is a conclusion she reached after visiting the area and she has the right to say that she can ‘understand’ why people would feel a certain way or do something. She was not justifying it – to my understanding anyway – simply saying she understood how or why someone would take that action.

    I’ve not seen anyone (yet) advocate suicide bombings, but I have heard people condone or try to justify rockets being fired from Gaza into southern Israel – or they minimize the effect of these rockets. At those times, I have chosen to ‘lecture’. Civilians should never be targetted or attacked indiscriminately or with indiscriminate weapons.

    Also, I wouldn’t say that the suicide bombings were stopped completely by the wall as around the time of the beginning of the construction of the wall, Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups had called a hudna – or ceasefire on suicide bombings so to be fair – it was most likely a combination of these two factors as well as a few smaller ones.

  51. Pingback: More Relative Calm « Rear Left

  52. Judo, given the 41 year long brutality of the Israeli occupation and given the ongoing Israeli confiscation of Palestinian lands and water, the bulldozing of their homes, the attacks on non-violent protesters, the imprisoning of resisters to the occupation, the home raids, the IDf destruction of Palestinian infrastructure, I am amazed that even more Palestinians have not attacked their occupiers. I know that were I in the same situation as the Palestinians living under the jackboot of my oppressors, I probably would not be non-violent. Compared to the Israeli army the Palestinians are saints.

    Remember Judo, the Palestinians do not have the same weapons as do the Israelis. If you don't like rocks and ineffective rockets how about giving the Palestinians tanks, APCs, Apache helicopters, effective missiles, cluster bombs, white phosphorus or any of the myriad weapons systems available to Israel. That would at least make the conflict more even because right now this is a case of David vs Goliath. And Israel sure isn't David.

    Actually I would wish that neither side had access to such weaponry and that the violence would end from both parties. But that isn't going to happen as long as Israel keeps troops and settlements in the occupied territories.

    If you are interested in peace then how about working to get Israel lock, stock and barrel out of the territories. Unless, of course you are more interested in having Israel get more and more land with less and less Palestinians and to hell with peace.

  53. Judo, given the 41 year long brutality of the Israeli occupation and given the ongoing Israeli confiscation of Palestinian lands and water, the bulldozing of their homes, the attacks on non-violent protesters, the imprisoning of resisters to the occupation, the home raids, the IDf destruction of Palestinian infrastructure, I am amazed that even more Palestinians have not attacked their occupiers. I know that were I in the same situation as the Palestinians living under the jackboot of my oppressors, I probably would not be non-violent. Compared to the Israeli army the Palestinians are saints.

    Remember Judo, the Palestinians do not have the same weapons as do the Israelis. If you don’t like rocks and ineffective rockets how about giving the Palestinians tanks, APCs, Apache helicopters, effective missiles, cluster bombs, white phosphorus or any of the myriad weapons systems available to Israel. That would at least make the conflict more even because right now this is a case of David vs Goliath. And Israel sure isn’t David.

    Actually I would wish that neither side had access to such weaponry and that the violence would end from both parties. But that isn’t going to happen as long as Israel keeps troops and settlements in the occupied territories.

    If you are interested in peace then how about working to get Israel lock, stock and barrel out of the territories. Unless, of course you are more interested in having Israel get more and more land with less and less Palestinians and to hell with peace.

  54. My post was about the Palestinian suicide bombings waves that started in the 90's and continued until the fence stopped them, ( and by the way not by any hudna) and which were aimed solely and deliberately at Israeli civilians, and which claimed over a thousand innocent Israeli lives, mostly women and children and the elderly, and many thousands more horribly injured.

    In response to my post,

    -Jan- says that he is "amazed that even more Palestinians have not attacked." (with suicide bombs aimed at Israeli civilians).

    -Rachel- says she "understands completely" (why Palestinian attack Israeli civilians with suicide bombs).

    So a blog owned by Amnesty International publishes comments from people who claim to be Amnesty supporters whose remarks include clear repeated justifications and expressions of understanding for suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, something AI itself has called "crimes against humanity" and the moderator Edith only defends and rationalizes with excuses these remarks when questioned, and then you wonder why most people in Israel view Amnesty International as a hopelessly biased against Israel organization that deserves to be ignored.

  55. My post was about the Palestinian suicide bombings waves that started in the 90′s and continued until the fence stopped them, ( and by the way not by any hudna) and which were aimed solely and deliberately at Israeli civilians, and which claimed over a thousand innocent Israeli lives, mostly women and children and the elderly, and many thousands more horribly injured.

    In response to my post,

    -Jan- says that he is “amazed that even more Palestinians have not attacked.” (with suicide bombs aimed at Israeli civilians).

    -Rachel- says she “understands completely” (why Palestinian attack Israeli civilians with suicide bombs).

    So a blog owned by Amnesty International publishes comments from people who claim to be Amnesty supporters whose remarks include clear repeated justifications and expressions of understanding for suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, something AI itself has called “crimes against humanity” and the moderator Edith only defends and rationalizes with excuses these remarks when questioned, and then you wonder why most people in Israel view Amnesty International as a hopelessly biased against Israel organization that deserves to be ignored.

  56. Judo, I don't justify suicide bombings. I only said that I understand why Palestinians would do that. Perhaps you would like it better if Palestinians were given the same weapons as Israel has. That would, at least, even the playing field.

    Frankly I don't see much difference between a suicide bomber and someone in a bomber dropping bombs on people he will never see. They are both killers and need to be condemned. And that includes those in my country who have dropped thousands of bombs on Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia etc. Killing from the air is no less criminal than someone who takes his own life with a suicide bomb. Both are evil.

    Perhaps, Judo, you have forgotten that suicide bombing did not begin until after Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein entered a mosque and murdered at least 29 Palestinians at prayer. And who was punished? Was Goldstein's home bulldozed as would have happened if a Palestinian murdered 29 Israelis? Not on your life. it was the Palestinians of Hebron who, in addition to losing 29 members of their community, were forced by the Israel Occupying Forces to stay in their homes for days. In some parts of the Occupied Territories, the terrorist Goldstein is revered as a hero. Maybe he is to you too.

    I have not heard you say anything against Israel's ongoing theft of Palestinian lands,the destruction of their infrastructure, the closures and curfews that keep people imprisoned in their homes for days and sometimes weeks or its overwhelming slaughter of Palestinians and Lebanese. I have not hear you say anything against the deliberate destruction of orphanages and hospitals as occurred in 1982 in Beirut when, after being given the coordinates of hospitals and orphanages by the Red Cross, Israel deliberately attacked these facilities claiming, as they always do, that there were militants firing at them.

    And, just as in Gaza on this go round, Israel broke the truce with the PLO in 1982. A member of my family who still lives in northern Israel told me after the 1982 invasion that Sharon had been planning the war for some time and for weeks before the actual assault had been bringing men and military equipment to the border. Then, as now, it was Israel that broke the truce and in Lebanon killed an estimated 17,000 or more people.

    I would like an answer from you Judo.

    I have not yet heard you say even one disparaging remark about Israel's ongoing settlement building, about the theft of Palestinian lands, about the bulldozing of Palestinian homes, about the shooting of innocent Palestinians (read some of the reports coming out of Israel) etc. I gather that you would prefer that the Palestinians just bow their heads to their Israeli masters and let them take everything with nary a peep from those who have long been dispossessed by people who came from Europe and America to occupy them and to drive them out. Not one word.

    So, my question to you is what should the Palestinians do so that Israel will return to the 1967 line, end the occupation, end the theft of land and allow for a viable Palestinian state on ALL of the illegally occupied territories?

    What would you do if you were a Palestinian who had been unjustly wronged over the years? Please don't tell me that you would try to leave. They just aren't going to be chased out again even though I suspect that would not make you unhappy in the least.

    By the way, Ms. Judo I am not a Mr. I am a Mrs.

  57. Judo, I don’t justify suicide bombings. I only said that I understand why Palestinians would do that. Perhaps you would like it better if Palestinians were given the same weapons as Israel has. That would, at least, even the playing field.

    Frankly I don’t see much difference between a suicide bomber and someone in a bomber dropping bombs on people he will never see. They are both killers and need to be condemned. And that includes those in my country who have dropped thousands of bombs on Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia etc. Killing from the air is no less criminal than someone who takes his own life with a suicide bomb. Both are evil.

    Perhaps, Judo, you have forgotten that suicide bombing did not begin until after Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein entered a mosque and murdered at least 29 Palestinians at prayer. And who was punished? Was Goldstein’s home bulldozed as would have happened if a Palestinian murdered 29 Israelis? Not on your life. it was the Palestinians of Hebron who, in addition to losing 29 members of their community, were forced by the Israel Occupying Forces to stay in their homes for days. In some parts of the Occupied Territories, the terrorist Goldstein is revered as a hero. Maybe he is to you too.

    I have not heard you say anything against Israel’s ongoing theft of Palestinian lands,the destruction of their infrastructure, the closures and curfews that keep people imprisoned in their homes for days and sometimes weeks or its overwhelming slaughter of Palestinians and Lebanese. I have not hear you say anything against the deliberate destruction of orphanages and hospitals as occurred in 1982 in Beirut when, after being given the coordinates of hospitals and orphanages by the Red Cross, Israel deliberately attacked these facilities claiming, as they always do, that there were militants firing at them.

    And, just as in Gaza on this go round, Israel broke the truce with the PLO in 1982. A member of my family who still lives in northern Israel told me after the 1982 invasion that Sharon had been planning the war for some time and for weeks before the actual assault had been bringing men and military equipment to the border. Then, as now, it was Israel that broke the truce and in Lebanon killed an estimated 17,000 or more people.

    I would like an answer from you Judo.

    I have not yet heard you say even one disparaging remark about Israel’s ongoing settlement building, about the theft of Palestinian lands, about the bulldozing of Palestinian homes, about the shooting of innocent Palestinians (read some of the reports coming out of Israel) etc. I gather that you would prefer that the Palestinians just bow their heads to their Israeli masters and let them take everything with nary a peep from those who have long been dispossessed by people who came from Europe and America to occupy them and to drive them out. Not one word.

    So, my question to you is what should the Palestinians do so that Israel will return to the 1967 line, end the occupation, end the theft of land and allow for a viable Palestinian state on ALL of the illegally occupied territories?

    What would you do if you were a Palestinian who had been unjustly wronged over the years? Please don’t tell me that you would try to leave. They just aren’t going to be chased out again even though I suspect that would not make you unhappy in the least.

    By the way, Ms. Judo I am not a Mr. I am a Mrs.

  58. The guy came to be part of the terrorists. He came looking for trouble and found it! Go find a job or something. Just like the stupid boat that got "rammed". Bunch of idiots. Left-wing weirdos!

  59. McDugal,
    The people who were protesting against the theft of their lands were not terrorists. I guess if someone came to steal your land and you protested, it would be OK if people thought that you were the terrorist rather than those engaged in stealing your land.

    Tristan Anderson did not come to be part of terrorism. He came to protect the Palestinians from Israeli terrorism.

    Sorry that your mind is so closed that you cannot see that what Israel is doing is just a continuation of the ethnic cleansing that began in 1948. As for the your comment that seems to deny that the boat carrying humanitarian aid for Gaza was rammed by Israeli navy boats, perhaps you don't know that a CNN reporter on the ship was there to see and report on the ramming.

    You sound like a right wing weirdo trying to excuse what Israel does in their effort to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Get a job or do some reading and open your mind. It might just do wonders for you.

  60. The guy came to be part of the terrorists. He came looking for trouble and found it! Go find a job or something. Just like the stupid boat that got “rammed”. Bunch of idiots. Left-wing weirdos!

  61. McDugal,
    The people who were protesting against the theft of their lands were not terrorists. I guess if someone came to steal your land and you protested, it would be OK if people thought that you were the terrorist rather than those engaged in stealing your land.

    Tristan Anderson did not come to be part of terrorism. He came to protect the Palestinians from Israeli terrorism.

    Sorry that your mind is so closed that you cannot see that what Israel is doing is just a continuation of the ethnic cleansing that began in 1948. As for the your comment that seems to deny that the boat carrying humanitarian aid for Gaza was rammed by Israeli navy boats, perhaps you don’t know that a CNN reporter on the ship was there to see and report on the ramming.

    You sound like a right wing weirdo trying to excuse what Israel does in their effort to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Get a job or do some reading and open your mind. It might just do wonders for you.

  62. Jan, the article above is on a specific topic, namely the American citizen badly wounded protesting a fence the Israelis built to keep out suicide bombers. I am trying to discuss the details of how this guy was injured, and why the fence he was protesting was built. You would prefer to bring up 60 irrelevant details from 60 years ago instead of dealing with the facts of this guys injuries from last week. This is an important subject, especially because this poor guy seems to be doing worse today and may be about to die, god forbid.

    The facts are that the original eye witness reports included in Edie's article above and on the ISM web site have turned out to be provable bald faced lies.

    For example the claim that the protesters were non-violent.This article in the Independent has the injured man's friends admitting rocks were being thrown all day long so the demonstrators can hardly be called non-violent and the use of tear gas in self defense can hardly be termed an unlawful response to admitted potentially lethal rock throwing under any conceivable international law. The victim was not throwing rocks, but others were.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-ea

    A second lie is that the soldiers were on a hill overlooking the victim and that they shot him with the tear gas canister from "point blank" range and so the tear gas became supposedly, according to this lie, a lethal projectile.

    First of all, the village is sitting on the only hill in the area, as can be easily seen by Google Earth, and the victims friends all say in these articles and the video of the indecent clearly show he was standing inside the village well up on the hill and tear gas was arcing up from down the hill.

    As to the distance the tear gas was fired from, this article from the New York Times says the tear gas was "fired from at least 300 yards away".
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/world/middleeas

    This article also states that the Palestinians throw tear gas of their own at Israelis, along with rocks and iron bars.

    The Independent Newspaper puts the distance at 60 yards, so even taking this worst case, this is not point blank range, and it is ridiculous to claim that an tear gas canister was deliberately aimed and shot at this victim's forehead. These flying canisters cannot be aimed accurately enough to hit someone, let alone hit them in the head, and anyone who claims this is a liar.

    It was a one in ten thousand occurrence, a horrible tragedy. If he had been hit 15 centimeters lower, in the shoulder, all he would have received was a bad bruise. The victims own friends admit several other foreigners were hit by the exact same tear gas from the same distance the same day according to the Independent article, and both of them just walked away, neither of them was injured or required any medical attention at all. A bruise is what most people who get hit with these tear gas things suffer at most. So how can anyone honestly claim this canister was shot with intent to kill or maim.

    It is just very sad, bad luck he got hit right in the forehead and his head broke open. Like Natasha Richardson in a way. Just a freekishly rare bad accident.
    Out of hundreds of thousand of uses of tear gas by the Israeli Army over the last 25 years, there have been no more than a small handful of injured Palestinians from getting hit by tear gas. If someone is unlucky enough to, for example, be hit right in the eye by a spinning tear gas canister they are going to be injured badly and a few Palestinians have had that happen unfortunately. But this kind of thing happens only very very rarely.

    I am very sorry this bad luck occurred to Tristan and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

  63. Jan, the article above is on a specific topic, namely the American citizen badly wounded protesting a fence the Israelis built to keep out suicide bombers. I am trying to discuss the details of how this guy was injured, and why the fence he was protesting was built. You would prefer to bring up 60 irrelevant details from 60 years ago instead of dealing with the facts of this guys injuries from last week. This is an important subject, especially because this poor guy seems to be doing worse today and may be about to die, god forbid.

    The facts are that the original eye witness reports included in Edie's article above and on the ISM web site have turned out to be provable bald faced lies.

    For example the claim that the protesters were non-violent.This article in the Independent has the injured man's friends admitting rocks were being thrown all day long so the demonstrators can hardly be called non-violent and the use of tear gas in self defense can hardly be termed an unlawful response to admitted potentially lethal rock throwing under any conceivable international law. The victim was not throwing rocks, but others were.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-ea

    A second lie is that the soldiers were on a hill overlooking the victim and that they shot him with the tear gas canister from "point blank" range and so the tear gas became supposedly, according to this lie, a lethal projectile.

    First of all, the village is sitting on the only hill in the area, as can be easily seen by Google Earth, and the victims friends all say in these articles and the video of the indecent clearly show he was standing inside the village well up on the hill and tear gas was arcing up from down the hill.

    As to the distance the tear gas was fired from, this article from the New York Times says the tear gas was "fired from at least 300 yards away".
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/world/middleeas

    This article also states that the Palestinians throw tear gas of their own at Israelis, along with rocks and iron bars.

    The Independent Newspaper puts the distance at 60 yards, so even taking this worst case, this is not point blank range, and it is ridiculous to claim that an tear gas canister was deliberately aimed and shot at this victim's forehead. These flying canisters cannot be aimed accurately enough to hit someone, let alone hit them in the head, and anyone who claims this is a liar.

    It was a one in ten thousand occurrence, a horrible tragedy. If he had been hit 15 centimeters lower, in the shoulder, all he would have received was a bad bruise. The victims own friends admit several other foreigners were hit by the exact same tear gas from the same distance the same day according to the Independent article, and both of them just walked away, neither of them was injured or required any medical attention at all. A bruise is what most people who get hit with these tear gas things suffer at most. So how can anyone honestly claim this canister was shot with intent to kill or maim.

    It is just very sad, bad luck he got hit right in the forehead and his head broke open. Like Natasha Richardson in a way. Just a freekishly rare bad accident.
    Out of hundreds of thousand of uses of tear gas by the Israeli Army over the last 25 years, there have been no more than a small handful of injured Palestinians from getting hit by tear gas. If someone is unlucky enough to, for example, be hit right in the eye by a spinning tear gas canister they are going to be injured badly and a few Palestinians have had that happen unfortunately. But this kind of thing happens only very very rarely.

    I am very sorry this bad luck occurred to Tristan and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

  64. Jan, the article above is on a specific topic, namely the American citizen badly wounded protesting a fence the Israelis built to keep out suicide bombers. I am trying to discuss the details of how this guy was injured, and why the fence he was protesting was built. You would prefer to bring up 60 irrelevant details from 60 years ago instead of dealing with the facts of this guys injuries from last week. This is an important subject, especially because this poor guy seems to be doing worse today and may be about to die, god forbid.

    The facts are that the original eye witness reports included in Edie's article above and on the ISM web site have turned out to be provable bald faced lies.

    For example the claim that the protesters were non-violent.This article in the Independent has the injured man's friends admitting rocks were being thrown all day long so the demonstrators can hardly be called non-violent and the use of tear gas in self defense can hardly be termed an unlawful response to admitted potentially lethal rock throwing under any conceivable international law. The victim was not throwing rocks, but others were.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-ea

    A second lie is that the soldiers were on a hill overlooking the victim and that they shot him with the tear gas canister from "point blank" range and so the tear gas became supposedly, according to this lie, a lethal projectile.

    First of all, the village is sitting on the only hill in the area, as can be easily seen by Google Earth, and the victims friends all say in these articles and the video of the indecent clearly show he was standing inside the village well up on the hill and tear gas was arcing up from down the hill.

    As to the distance the tear gas was fired from, this article from the New York Times says the tear gas was "fired from at least 300 yards away".
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/world/middleeas

    This article also states that the Palestinians throw tear gas of their own at Israelis, along with rocks and iron bars.

    The Independent Newspaper puts the distance at 60 yards, so even taking this worst case, this is not point blank range, and it is ridiculous to claim that an tear gas canister was deliberately aimed and shot at this victim's forehead. These flying canisters cannot be aimed accurately enough to hit someone, let alone hit them in the head, and anyone who claims this is a liar.

    It was a one in ten thousand occurrence, a horrible tragedy. If he had been hit 15 centimeters lower, in the shoulder, all he would have received was a bad bruise. The victims own friends admit several other foreigners were hit by the exact same tear gas from the same distance the same day according to the Independent article, and both of them just walked away, neither of them was injured or required any medical attention at all. A bruise is what most people who get hit with these tear gas things suffer at most. So how can anyone honestly claim this canister was shot with intent to kill or maim.

    It is just very sad, bad luck he got hit right in the forehead and his head broke open. Like Natasha Richardson in a way. Just a freekishly rare bad accident.
    Out of hundreds of thousand of uses of tear gas by the Israeli Army over the last 25 years, there have been no more than a small handful of injured Palestinians from getting hit by tear gas. If someone is unlucky enough to, for example, be hit right in the eye by a spinning tear gas canister they are going to be injured badly and a few Palestinians have had that happen unfortunately. But this kind of thing happens only very very rarely.

    I am very sorry this bad luck occurred to Tristan and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

  65. Jan, the article above is on a specific topic, namely the American citizen badly wounded protesting a fence the Israelis built to keep out suicide bombers. I am trying to discuss the details of how this guy was injured, and why the fence he was protesting was built. You would prefer to bring up 60 irrelevant details from 60 years ago instead of dealing with the facts of this guys injuries from last week. This is an important subject, especially because this poor guy seems to be doing worse today and may be about to die, god forbid.

    The facts are that the original eye witness reports included in Edie’s article above and on the ISM web site have turned out to be provable bald faced lies.

    For example the claim that the protesters were non-violent.This article in the Independent has the injured man’s friends admitting rocks were being thrown all day long so the demonstrators can hardly be called non-violent and the use of tear gas in self defense can hardly be termed an unlawful response to admitted potentially lethal rock throwing under any conceivable international law. The victim was not throwing rocks, but others were.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fighting-for-life-american-peace-activist-shot-by-israelis-1652604.html

    A second lie is that the soldiers were on a hill overlooking the victim and that they shot him with the tear gas canister from “point blank” range and so the tear gas became supposedly, according to this lie, a lethal projectile.

    First of all, the village is sitting on the only hill in the area, as can be easily seen by Google Earth, and the victims friends all say in these articles and the video of the indecent clearly show he was standing inside the village well up on the hill and tear gas was arcing up from down the hill.

    As to the distance the tear gas was fired from, this article from the New York Times says the tear gas was “fired from at least 300 yards away”.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/world/middleeast/21westbank.html?_r=1

    This article also states that the Palestinians throw tear gas of their own at Israelis, along with rocks and iron bars.

    The Independent Newspaper puts the distance at 60 yards, so even taking this worst case, this is not point blank range, and it is ridiculous to claim that an tear gas canister was deliberately aimed and shot at this victim’s forehead. These flying canisters cannot be aimed accurately enough to hit someone, let alone hit them in the head, and anyone who claims this is a liar.

    It was a one in ten thousand occurrence, a horrible tragedy. If he had been hit 15 centimeters lower, in the shoulder, all he would have received was a bad bruise. The victims own friends admit several other foreigners were hit by the exact same tear gas from the same distance the same day according to the Independent article, and both of them just walked away, neither of them was injured or required any medical attention at all. A bruise is what most people who get hit with these tear gas things suffer at most. So how can anyone honestly claim this canister was shot with intent to kill or maim.

    It is just very sad, bad luck he got hit right in the forehead and his head broke open. Like Natasha Richardson in a way. Just a freekishly rare bad accident.
    Out of hundreds of thousand of uses of tear gas by the Israeli Army over the last 25 years, there have been no more than a small handful of injured Palestinians from getting hit by tear gas. If someone is unlucky enough to, for example, be hit right in the eye by a spinning tear gas canister they are going to be injured badly and a few Palestinians have had that happen unfortunately. But this kind of thing happens only very very rarely.

    I am very sorry this bad luck occurred to Tristan and I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

  66. Judo,
    The soldiers were on Palestinian land preparing to take away the land of this village. Already the Israelis have stolen many dunams of Palestinian land to build the aparthied wall. I would have no objection to this wall, nor would most Palestinians, were this wall built on Israeli land.

    But, in their ever continuing quest for more and more land, Israel has chosen to build most of the wall in Palestinian territory separating farmers from their fields, children from their schools, families from each other. This wall is nothing but a land grab and people do have the right to protest the theft of their land.

    Perhaps Judo you might say how you believe the Palestinians should protest if, indeed, you think that they have the right to protest.

    I guess if someone came on your land and tried to steal your house, your garden etc. you would just tell them to go ahead. I doubt it. You might throw rocks or even use a stronger weapon. Don't deny the Palestinians the right to defend their land even if it is with rocks. They are not throwing the rocks at civilians. They are throwing them at armed soldiers who have no business getting in the robbery business.

    As a Jew who believes it is my duty as a Jew to criticize Israel I stand with those brave Israelis and brave Palestinians who stand up against the IDF who has been sent to oppress the people from whom their lands were taken decades ago.

    Finally, it is my earnest belief that the Palestinians have become the last victims of HItler and European anti-Semitism. They have paid the price for the horrors done to our people over the years.

  67. Judo,
    The soldiers were on Palestinian land preparing to take away the land of this village. Already the Israelis have stolen many dunams of Palestinian land to build the aparthied wall. I would have no objection to this wall, nor would most Palestinians, were this wall built on Israeli land.

    But, in their ever continuing quest for more and more land, Israel has chosen to build most of the wall in Palestinian territory separating farmers from their fields, children from their schools, families from each other. This wall is nothing but a land grab and people do have the right to protest the theft of their land.

    Perhaps Judo you might say how you believe the Palestinians should protest if, indeed, you think that they have the right to protest.

    I guess if someone came on your land and tried to steal your house, your garden etc. you would just tell them to go ahead. I doubt it. You might throw rocks or even use a stronger weapon. Don’t deny the Palestinians the right to defend their land even if it is with rocks. They are not throwing the rocks at civilians. They are throwing them at armed soldiers who have no business getting in the robbery business.

    As a Jew who believes it is my duty as a Jew to criticize Israel I stand with those brave Israelis and brave Palestinians who stand up against the IDF who has been sent to oppress the people from whom their lands were taken decades ago.

    Finally, it is my earnest belief that the Palestinians have become the last victims of HItler and European anti-Semitism. They have paid the price for the horrors done to our people over the years.

  68. Jan, you left wing nutter. You engage in supporting terrorists because you are an anti-semite. We know your type. The fool got what he was looking for. He has a police record for several illegal things he had done in the past.
    Go throw some rocks or something. Thats what you are good for. Galloway and his like will all get what they are looking for. LOL. I guess this halfwit who got hit will not go to support terrorists so quickly anymore. :)

    As to his parents: YOU FAILED!!
    As for the fake jews posting their hate here. Go screw yourself.
    Israel rules! .and where the f… is this balestine??… Never heard of it. Sorry.
    Eat your heart out!!

  69. Jan, you left wing nutter. You engage in supporting terrorists because you are an anti-semite. We know your type. The fool got what he was looking for. He has a police record for several illegal things he had done in the past.
    Go throw some rocks or something. Thats what you are good for. Galloway and his like will all get what they are looking for. LOL. I guess this halfwit who got hit will not go to support terrorists so quickly anymore. :)

    As to his parents: YOU FAILED!!
    As for the fake jews posting their hate here. Go screw yourself.
    Israel rules! .and where the f… is this balestine??… Never heard of it. Sorry.
    Eat your heart out!!

  70. McDugal, you are an idiot and not worth even a moment's thought or a reply so go spew your hate elsewhere.

  71. McDugal, you are an idiot and not worth even a moment’s thought or a reply so go spew your hate elsewhere.

  72. McDugal – This is an open forum where all are free to express their opinions. As you can see, there are several of us in a discussion with varying views that often clash. All viewpoints are welcome, but must be made respectfully. Although this standard isn't always met when in a heated discussion, outright insults and name calling won't be tolerated again.

    If you have something informative to share or want to share your opinion in a non-insulting fashion, please feel free to post again. If your purpose is to insult and denigrate others, please refrain.

  73. McDugal – This is an open forum where all are free to express their opinions. As you can see, there are several of us in a discussion with varying views that often clash. All viewpoints are welcome, but must be made respectfully. Although this standard isn’t always met when in a heated discussion, outright insults and name calling won’t be tolerated again.

    If you have something informative to share or want to share your opinion in a non-insulting fashion, please feel free to post again. If your purpose is to insult and denigrate others, please refrain.

  74. Those who are willing to be educated to the truth will listen with an open mind, and those who are not willing to know the truth will always hold deaf ears and a closed heart.

    Writing hateful things back and forth will not accomplish anything and is a waste of time. Post the truth as you know it and leave the rest to God.

    I understand and sympathize with both sides. What we have to remember is that for every action there is a reaction. I have been in Palestine and I have seen first hand what occupation can do to a people. It's ok, as I said before the Palestinians are a strong people and have endured a lot. Their dignity and their unity will never be broken, nor will their plight for freedom.

  75. Those who are willing to be educated to the truth will listen with an open mind, and those who are not willing to know the truth will always hold deaf ears and a closed heart.

    Writing hateful things back and forth will not accomplish anything and is a waste of time. Post the truth as you know it and leave the rest to God.

    I understand and sympathize with both sides. What we have to remember is that for every action there is a reaction. I have been in Palestine and I have seen first hand what occupation can do to a people. It’s ok, as I said before the Palestinians are a strong people and have endured a lot. Their dignity and their unity will never be broken, nor will their plight for freedom.

  76. Hello!
    Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
    PS: Sorry for my bad english, I'v just started to learn this language ;)
    See you!
    Your, Raiul Baztepo

  77. Hello!
    Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
    PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language ;)
    See you!
    Your, Raiul Baztepo

  78. Universal love and support requires no language. :) Those with knowledge will understand

  79. Amal, do you think you are the reincarnation of Mahatma Gahndi or something?

    Who are you trying to kid anyways ?

    A few posts back you, Amal, wrote

    "I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand"

    So go sell your phony baloney "Universal Love" garbage somewhere else.

    Universal love in my understanding does not include supporting suicide bombings that killed over a 100 Israel civilians, that were organized at the highest levels of Palestinian society, that deliberately targeted against Israeli civilian women and children, and that were supported by the vast majority of the Palestinian people in every independent scientific opinion poll ever conducted and that news of these massacres of Israeli civilians was greeted by spontaneous dancing in the streets and handing out of candies by the Palestinian masses. By the way Amnesty International termed these acts as "Crimes against Humanity" so I think your "understanding" of them as you wrote you have means your claim to posses "Universal Love" leaves a little to be desired in this case.

  80. Sorry, that should have read "a 1000 Israel civilians", and thousand more brutaly maimed from the waves of suicide bombings that began in the 90's and ended only when the anti-suicide bomber fences was thank god constructed and is now protected Israeli civilians from more "crimes against humanity" as Amnesty International calls the waves of hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings against ice cream shops full fo children, pizza parlors full of families, gatherings of mothers with baby carriages, discos full of youths, buses full of elderly and poor people just trying to get to work.

    This is what Amal with his laughable "universal love" understands. Well if your "universal love" enables you to "understand" in your own words the mass murder of innocent civilian women and children, I think we can all do without it. Thanks but no thanks.

  81. Judo,
    Suicide bombings are terrible but so are other means of killing such as F16s, heavy duty bombs that blow apart neighborhoods, shelling of civilian neighborhoods when there is no place for the residents to flee.

    Judo, how would you like the Palestinian people to resist the theft of their lands, the imprisonment and torture of their people, the theft of their water, the killing of their people? Maybe you don't want them to resist but just to turn over everything to the Jews and then leave.

    Would you prefer that the Palestinians had the same weapons as the Israelis so that there would be an even playing field? I doubt it.

    I don't want anyone to die or to be maimed but it seems to me that the number of dead Palestinians, including women and children, far outnumber the number of dead Israelis.

    The only way this conflict will ever end is for the land to be divided between both peoples. The Palestinians do not intend to leave on their own and neither do the Jews.

    The last 60 years have been a tragedy for both peoples and you must remember Judo that no people want to have their land taken from them as happened to the Palestinians through no fault of their own. The Palestinians were not responsible for the European anti-Semitism that was responsible for the establishment of the state of Israel but they have paid the price.

    But you must understand that those who took the land of the Palestinians are being resisted not because they are Jewish but because they took the land and are oppressors. Had they not been Jewish but Swedes, Indians, Serbs or any other ethnic group the resistance would have been the same.

  82. Amal, do you think you are the reincarnation of Mahatma Gahndi or something?

    Who are you trying to kid anyways ?

    A few posts back you, Amal, wrote

    “I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand”

    So go sell your phony baloney “Universal Love” garbage somewhere else.

    Universal love in my understanding does not include supporting suicide bombings that killed over a 100 Israel civilians, that were organized at the highest levels of Palestinian society, that deliberately targeted against Israeli civilian women and children, and that were supported by the vast majority of the Palestinian people in every independent scientific opinion poll ever conducted and that news of these massacres of Israeli civilians was greeted by spontaneous dancing in the streets and handing out of candies by the Palestinian masses. By the way Amnesty International termed these acts as “Crimes against Humanity” so I think your “understanding” of them as you wrote you have means your claim to posses “Universal Love” leaves a little to be desired in this case.

  83. Sorry, that should have read “a 1000 Israel civilians”, and thousand more brutaly maimed from the waves of suicide bombings that began in the 90′s and ended only when the anti-suicide bomber fences was thank god constructed and is now protected Israeli civilians from more “crimes against humanity” as Amnesty International calls the waves of hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings against ice cream shops full fo children, pizza parlors full of families, gatherings of mothers with baby carriages, discos full of youths, buses full of elderly and poor people just trying to get to work.

    This is what Amal with his laughable “universal love” understands. Well if your “universal love” enables you to “understand” in your own words the mass murder of innocent civilian women and children, I think we can all do without it. Thanks but no thanks.

  84. Judo,
    Suicide bombings are terrible but so are other means of killing such as F16s, heavy duty bombs that blow apart neighborhoods, shelling of civilian neighborhoods when there is no place for the residents to flee.

    Judo, how would you like the Palestinian people to resist the theft of their lands, the imprisonment and torture of their people, the theft of their water, the killing of their people? Maybe you don’t want them to resist but just to turn over everything to the Jews and then leave.

    Would you prefer that the Palestinians had the same weapons as the Israelis so that there would be an even playing field? I doubt it.

    I don’t want anyone to die or to be maimed but it seems to me that the number of dead Palestinians, including women and children, far outnumber the number of dead Israelis.

    The only way this conflict will ever end is for the land to be divided between both peoples. The Palestinians do not intend to leave on their own and neither do the Jews.

    The last 60 years have been a tragedy for both peoples and you must remember Judo that no people want to have their land taken from them as happened to the Palestinians through no fault of their own. The Palestinians were not responsible for the European anti-Semitism that was responsible for the establishment of the state of Israel but they have paid the price.

    But you must understand that those who took the land of the Palestinians are being resisted not because they are Jewish but because they took the land and are oppressors. Had they not been Jewish but Swedes, Indians, Serbs or any other ethnic group the resistance would have been the same.

  85. Judo,

    I am sorry if you want to argue and make assumptions about what I have written. I do not support suicide bombings at all, nor do I support the occupation. Death is terrible no matter what side of the fence you live on. A death brings a loss to someone's mother, father, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, grandmother, grandfather, niece, nephew, child……….etc. Nothing can replace that loss to either side.

    What I am saying is that the conditions of living between the Israelis and the Palestinians in uncomparable. Israel wouldn't have to live in fear, if they would remove the illegal settlements and allow the Palestinians to have their own state, with control of their own borders, water, and land.

    I hear what you are saying, I understand your anger. People need to also know the other side of the story. The Palestinians, like the Israelis want to live in peace and without fear. I sat in checkpoints for hours trying to get from one place in Palestine to another…….hours! I had no access to the bathroom, no place to buy water, and I watched Israeli soldiers pull a machine gun on two small Palestinian children because they were hot and just wanted to stand outside their taxi while waiting to go through a check point. These children were so small that they wouldn't even know what a bomb was. Why did a soldier place a machine gun to their head and threaten to kill them if they didn't get back into the taxi? Was it because they were threatened by two small toddlers or just because they wanted to torture, humiliate and induce fear?

    I was taking a shower in Palestine and the water was shut off in the middle of the shower. People need water to survive, not just to enjoy the feeling of being clean. Never while I was in Israel did I have to worry about having a drink of water, but in Palestine, I did. Would it make you angry to have your children, or your elderly parents beg you for water and you not be able to provide this to them? I think it would.

    Do you think it's right for Israeli children or Palestinian children to continue to suffer because of old hatred? ………because people can't forget, forgive, and try to move forward in a manner that will allow both people to live without fear?
    If you think carrying hatred forward will resolve the issue, then I really feel sorry for you. Both people have suffered, and suffered dearly…….way beyond numbers. As a parent, as a daughter of of two elderly parents, I thank God every day for my freedom and that, although I am faced with different fears, it isn't a fear of military tanks that destroy without reason or people who have been hurt so much for so long that they would be willing to sacrifice their life for their cause.

    You have a right to say what you want, but I won't respond to a person who is so full of hate that they are blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. I have no connections to either party, but I do know what I saw and I will always educate people to both sides of the story as I know it. You bash the Palestinians but in all honesty, they are a very humble and kind people. So rather than argue, write the truth about what it is like on both sides…..not just one side.

  86. Thank you Amal,
    I hope that your wise and compassionate words can penetrate the hearts of those who for all too long have been closed to the terrible plight of the Palestinians. While I have not been to Palestine I have several Jewish friends who have spent weeks and months there and witnessing the horrible effects of the brutal occupation.

    Because they came in peace and not as settlers and occupiers these Jews have been welcomed into Palestinian homes and treated as honored guests.
    Every one has spoken of the warmth and generosity of the Palestinian people, warmth far greater than they experienced either in the U.S. or in Israel.

    I, myself, have a Palestinian email son with whom I have corresponded for several years ever since his university in Bethlehem was shelled by the IDF. When I began to correspond with this young man I told him immediately that I am Jewish and that I hated the occupation, that the occupation was illegal and immoral. This young man asked if he could call me "mother." I was honored.

    But what is profoundly sad that his optimism for a better future in a free Palestine has been shattered. Now, as a young married man with a child on the way, he wonders what kind of a life his child will have living under occupation with no hopes. I don't know what to tell him. My Palestinian son, his wife and child have every right to live in freedom in their own land of Palestine and I will do whatever I can, however small, to help him and the other Palestinians to achieve that goal.

    It is an upward struggle, especially as our government is under the thumb of the Israeli Lobby, but I believe that in the end justice will prevail and both peoples will benefit.

  87. Jan,

    May God bless you for extending this love to your email son. I am sure that being Jewish your plight for peace has not come without resistance. I don't speak with hatred in my heart towards either side, just honesty. I am sure the pain on both sides is atrocious, as well as the loss. Jewish people should not be seen as heartless murderers, nor should Palestinians be seen as terrorists. Neither is true. A "people" is sometimes different than their government, but they are the ones who pay the price for the choices made.

    You can NEVER change the past, or what has happened. What we can change is the future through hope and education. No one really likes change but sometimes change is good. As you know, the Palestinians have no quality of life. The occupation has taken everything except their dignity and plight for freedom. Even the people of old must remember what it was like to live in peace and long for that again.

    What we can do is what we are doing; educate people to the truth. This constant battle is doing nothing but hurting people, innocent people, on both sides; and it is unnecessary for anyone to die simply because they live.

  88. Judo,

    I am sorry if you want to argue and make assumptions about what I have written. I do not support suicide bombings at all, nor do I support the occupation. Death is terrible no matter what side of the fence you live on. A death brings a loss to someone’s mother, father, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, grandmother, grandfather, niece, nephew, child……….etc. Nothing can replace that loss to either side.

    What I am saying is that the conditions of living between the Israelis and the Palestinians in uncomparable. Israel wouldn’t have to live in fear, if they would remove the illegal settlements and allow the Palestinians to have their own state, with control of their own borders, water, and land.

    I hear what you are saying, I understand your anger. People need to also know the other side of the story. The Palestinians, like the Israelis want to live in peace and without fear. I sat in checkpoints for hours trying to get from one place in Palestine to another…….hours! I had no access to the bathroom, no place to buy water, and I watched Israeli soldiers pull a machine gun on two small Palestinian children because they were hot and just wanted to stand outside their taxi while waiting to go through a check point. These children were so small that they wouldn’t even know what a bomb was. Why did a soldier place a machine gun to their head and threaten to kill them if they didn’t get back into the taxi? Was it because they were threatened by two small toddlers or just because they wanted to torture, humiliate and induce fear?

    I was taking a shower in Palestine and the water was shut off in the middle of the shower. People need water to survive, not just to enjoy the feeling of being clean. Never while I was in Israel did I have to worry about having a drink of water, but in Palestine, I did. Would it make you angry to have your children, or your elderly parents beg you for water and you not be able to provide this to them? I think it would.

    Do you think it’s right for Israeli children or Palestinian children to continue to suffer because of old hatred? ………because people can’t forget, forgive, and try to move forward in a manner that will allow both people to live without fear?
    If you think carrying hatred forward will resolve the issue, then I really feel sorry for you. Both people have suffered, and suffered dearly…….way beyond numbers. As a parent, as a daughter of of two elderly parents, I thank God every day for my freedom and that, although I am faced with different fears, it isn’t a fear of military tanks that destroy without reason or people who have been hurt so much for so long that they would be willing to sacrifice their life for their cause.

    You have a right to say what you want, but I won’t respond to a person who is so full of hate that they are blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other. I have no connections to either party, but I do know what I saw and I will always educate people to both sides of the story as I know it. You bash the Palestinians but in all honesty, they are a very humble and kind people. So rather than argue, write the truth about what it is like on both sides…..not just one side.

  89. Thank you Amal,
    I hope that your wise and compassionate words can penetrate the hearts of those who for all too long have been closed to the terrible plight of the Palestinians. While I have not been to Palestine I have several Jewish friends who have spent weeks and months there and witnessing the horrible effects of the brutal occupation.

    Because they came in peace and not as settlers and occupiers these Jews have been welcomed into Palestinian homes and treated as honored guests.
    Every one has spoken of the warmth and generosity of the Palestinian people, warmth far greater than they experienced either in the U.S. or in Israel.

    I, myself, have a Palestinian email son with whom I have corresponded for several years ever since his university in Bethlehem was shelled by the IDF. When I began to correspond with this young man I told him immediately that I am Jewish and that I hated the occupation, that the occupation was illegal and immoral. This young man asked if he could call me “mother.” I was honored.

    But what is profoundly sad that his optimism for a better future in a free Palestine has been shattered. Now, as a young married man with a child on the way, he wonders what kind of a life his child will have living under occupation with no hopes. I don’t know what to tell him. My Palestinian son, his wife and child have every right to live in freedom in their own land of Palestine and I will do whatever I can, however small, to help him and the other Palestinians to achieve that goal.

    It is an upward struggle, especially as our government is under the thumb of the Israeli Lobby, but I believe that in the end justice will prevail and both peoples will benefit.

  90. Jan,

    May God bless you for extending this love to your email son. I am sure that being Jewish your plight for peace has not come without resistance. I don’t speak with hatred in my heart towards either side, just honesty. I am sure the pain on both sides is atrocious, as well as the loss. Jewish people should not be seen as heartless murderers, nor should Palestinians be seen as terrorists. Neither is true. A “people” is sometimes different than their government, but they are the ones who pay the price for the choices made.

    You can NEVER change the past, or what has happened. What we can change is the future through hope and education. No one really likes change but sometimes change is good. As you know, the Palestinians have no quality of life. The occupation has taken everything except their dignity and plight for freedom. Even the people of old must remember what it was like to live in peace and long for that again.

    What we can do is what we are doing; educate people to the truth. This constant battle is doing nothing but hurting people, innocent people, on both sides; and it is unnecessary for anyone to die simply because they live.

  91. To recap:
    Amal said up above:

    “I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand”

    So he "understand" what amnesty International termed a "Crime against Humanity under the Geneva Convention and International law", the mass murder of over a thousand completely innocent Israeli civilians mainly women and children their bodies ripped apart by fire and nails the bombs were packed with to cause maximum carnage, thousand more horribly wounded.

    Then he has the nerve, this thing which understand the killing of babies as long as they are Jewish, to talk about "Universal Love".

    I point out this obvious contradiction between his beautiful, almost saintly claims of "Love” with his admitted "understanding" of a bunch of elderly poor people in a bus having their bodies ripped to shreds, and he calls me full of hate.
    Can you beat that? Amal "understands" a Crime against Humanity but if I point this out, he then accuses me, me of being the one full of hate.

    Nope. No sir, you Amal are the one full of hate, proved by your own words justifying the mass murder of randomly selected innocent Jewish women and children apparently because the security roadblocks put in place to stop the very suicide bombings you seem to understand do not have the 5 star toilet facilities you are apparently used to.

    All your words of "Universal love" and "god" are lies and hypocrisy of the worst kind. With a “god” like yours, whose followers “understand” and justify suicide bombings against civilians, who needs Satan.

  92. Judo, it's ok to feel angry and hurt (which proves my point when I say your heart is full of hatred and your mind is closed), and you have a right to interpret my words any way you choose. What I "understood" by being in Palestine is how a person (including the Jewish) can be pushed to a point of retaliation. What I also understand is that if the peace process has to deal with someone full of hate then it will never move forward.

    You refer to the "Geneva Convention and International law", well, that's another story; which again would be in favor of the Palestinians because of the war crimes and the illegal settlements.

    Life is moving forward and so must our attitudes. People are becoming educated to the truth of the occupation (at least those who seek to find it). Have you ever heard of NoamChomsky? Here is a quote from a recent interview from him "Noam Chomsky: There has been a very clear shift in recent years. On US campuses and with general audiences as well. It was not long ago that police protection was a standard feature of talks at all critical of Israeli policies, meetings were broken up, audiences very hostile and abusive. By now it is sharply different, with scattered exceptions. Apologists for Israeli violence now tend often to be defensive and desperate, rather than arrogant and overbearing." http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20080606.htm

    I have never said that bad things have not happened to Israeli citizens, but what you aren't telling, is that bad things have also happened to the Palestinians or the truth about their living conditions (which again, are uncomparable to that of the Jewish civilians). I don't want anyone's baby to die, not the child of an Israeli mother or the child of a Palestinian mother!!!!!!!!!!! I am not accusing you of being full of hate for pointing out the truth, so tell the truth for both sides. I challenge you as a supporter of Israel to tell the trugh about the Palestinian suffering. I think you are full of hate because when you do hear the truth, you can't accept it. Not because you point out the suffering of the innocent civilians of Israel.

    The checkpoints "security roadblocks" are put in place "to stop the very suicide bombings" might be a security measure for Israel, but the torture, the inhumane treatment to the men, women, and children having to endure them is unacceptable. Have the checkpoints if you must, but don't torture those forced to endure them just because you have the power to do so in the name of 'security'. Where is the same compassion you seek for the Israeli citizens given towards the Palestinians? It was my choice to do without the "5 star toilet" when I made the trip to Palestine………but then I am an adult not an innocent child who was born there and forced to endure this inhumane treatment.

  93. Judo,
    You are the one filled with hate. You want the occupation to continue. You want Palestinians to suffer. You want Palestinians to be deprived of drinking water while the illegal settlers in the illegal settlements enjoy their swimming pools and green lawns. You don't care if Palestinian women in labor and their babies die at checkpoints.

    You don't care when Israeli soldiers shoot small kids throwing rocks at armored vehicles. You don't care when an Israeli missile slams into a vehicle in a crowded neighborhood killing or maiming
    those unlucky enough to be in the area. I'm sure that you didn't care when an Israeli missile slammed into a Gaza beach some months ago killing almost all of a family sitting on the beach.

    Did it bother you in the least when Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein went into a mosque in Hebron and murdered 29 Muslim men at prayer? Did it bother you that the Palestinians of Hebron were the ones punished for this act of terror by being confined to their homes while the Jews of Hebron built a plaque to honor this Israeli terrorist? Do you know that suicide bombings did not begin until after Goldstein committed his act of terror, an act of terror no different than a suicide bombing except that the coward Goldstein did not plan on giving his own life.

    I could go on and on with what Israel has done to the Palestinians. The list, unfortunately, is long.

    Far too many lives on both sides have been lost because of the occupation.
    Maybe Israel should have taken into consideration as the brutal occupation dragged on that there would come a time when Palestinians, seeing that Israel had no intention of abiding by UN Res. 242, would decide to take matters into their own hands. After all, how long were they supposed to sit back and watch their lands disappear?

    I will only say that neither Amal nor I support suicide bombings. They are cruel and terrible but no more cruel and terrible than the terror used by the Israeli army that has taken four times the number of Palestinian lives than Israeli lives.

    I know that you would probably like the Palestinians to bow down to the Israelis and just let them take as much land as they want without resisting. They are not going to do that. I wish that they would use non-violent resistance but Israel doesn't like that either meeting non-violence with violence. Perhaps you don't know but in the 1980s Israel deported a popular Palestinian, Mubarak Awad, because he was advocating non-violence and civil disobedience much as did blacks in the American South during the 1960s. But Israel wants no resistance to their land grab to their occupation, violent or non-violent and those who refuse to become serfs to Israel are punished.

    Thankfully, Judo, all Jews do not feel like you or like many Israelis. There are progressive Jews who are furious with what Israel has done to the name of Judaism, Jews who say that Israel does not represent us. Our legion is growing and one day we will become the voice of Jews around the world as we reach out our hands in peace to our Palestinian brothers and sisters, many of whom will reach out their hands in peace to us.

    BTW, Judo, you are the one filled with hate as you justify the murder of thousands of Palestinians not by suicide bombing but by sophisticated weapons of war including white phosphorus, bombs packed with tiny flechettes,

    This is what Amnesty International has to say about flechettes:

    Flechettes are 4cm long metal darts that are sharply pointed at the front, with four fins at the rear. Between 5,000 and 8,000 are packed into 120mm shells which are generally fired from tanks. The shells explode in the air and scatter the flechettes in a conical pattern over an area about 300m wide and 100m long.

    Makes nail packed suicide bombs sound primitive by comparison.

    Judo, if you want peace with justice for both peoples – but it appears that you don't – the only answer is to either wipe out the Palestinians or to end the occupation. Which would you choose? Given your statements, I sadly think that your choice would be the former.

    I hope I am wrong.

  94. Judo, it's ok to feel angry and hurt (which proves my point when I say your heart is full of hatred and your mind is closed), and you have a right to interpret my words any way you choose. What I "understood" by being in Palestine is how a person (including the Jewish) can be pushed to a point of retaliation. What I also understand is that if the peace process has to deal with someone full of hate then it will never move forward.

    You refer to the "Geneva Convention and International law", well, that's another story; which again would be in favor of the Palestinians because of the war crimes and the illegal settlements.

    Life is moving forward and so must our attitudes. People are becoming educated to the truth of the occupation (at least those who seek to find it). Have you ever heard of NoamChomsky? Here is a quote from a recent interview from him "Noam Chomsky: There has been a very clear shift in recent years. On US campuses and with general audiences as well. It was not long ago that police protection was a standard feature of talks at all critical of Israeli policies, meetings were broken up, audiences very hostile and abusive. By now it is sharply different, with scattered exceptions. Apologists for Israeli violence now tend often to be defensive and desperate, rather than arrogant and overbearing." http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20080606.htm

    I have never said that bad things have not happened to Israeli citizens, but what you aren't telling, is that bad things have also happened to the Palestinians or the truth about their living conditions (which again, are uncomparable to that of the Jewish civilians). I don't want anyone's baby to die, not the child of an Israeli mother or the child of a Palestinian mother!!!!!!!!!!! I am not accusing you of being full of hate for pointing out the truth, so tell the truth for both sides. I challenge you as a supporter of Israel to tell the trugh about the Palestinian suffering. I think you are full of hate because when you do hear the truth, you can't accept it. Not because you point out the suffering of the innocent civilians of Israel.

    The checkpoints "security roadblocks" are put in place "to stop the very suicide bombings" might be a security measure for Israel, but the torture, the inhumane treatment to the men, women, and children having to endure them is unacceptable. Have the checkpoints if you must, but don't torture those forced to endure them just because you have the power to do so in the name of 'security'. Where is the same compassion you seek for the Israeli citizens given towards the Palestinians? It was my choice to do without the "5 star toilet" when I made the trip to Palestine………but then I am an adult not an innocent child who was born there and forced to endure this inhumane treatment.

  95. Judo, it's ok to feel angry and hurt (which proves my point when I say your heart is full of hatred and your mind is closed), and you have a right to interpret my words any way you choose. What I "understood" by being in Palestine is how a person (including the Jewish) can be pushed to a point of retaliation. What I also understand is that if the peace process has to deal with someone full of hate then it will never move forward.

    You refer to the "Geneva Convention and International law", well, that's another story; which again would be in favor of the Palestinians because of the war crimes and the illegal settlements.

    Life is moving forward and so must our attitudes. People are becoming educated to the truth of the occupation (at least those who seek to find it). Have you ever heard of NoamChomsky? Here is a quote from a recent interview from him "Noam Chomsky: There has been a very clear shift in recent years. On US campuses and with general audiences as well. It was not long ago that police protection was a standard feature of talks at all critical of Israeli policies, meetings were broken up, audiences very hostile and abusive. By now it is sharply different, with scattered exceptions. Apologists for Israeli violence now tend often to be defensive and desperate, rather than arrogant and overbearing." http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20080606.htm

    I have never said that bad things have not happened to Israeli citizens, but what you aren't telling, is that bad things have also happened to the Palestinians or the truth about their living conditions (which again, are uncomparable to that of the Jewish civilians). I don't want anyone's baby to die, not the child of an Israeli mother or the child of a Palestinian mother!!!!!!!!!!! I am not accusing you of being full of hate for pointing out the truth, so tell the truth for both sides. I challenge you as a supporter of Israel to tell the trugh about the Palestinian suffering. I think you are full of hate because when you do hear the truth, you can't accept it. Not because you point out the suffering of the innocent civilians of Israel.

    The checkpoints "security roadblocks" are put in place "to stop the very suicide bombings" might be a security measure for Israel, but the torture, the inhumane treatment to the men, women, and children having to endure them is unacceptable. Have the checkpoints if you must, but don't torture those forced to endure them just because you have the power to do so in the name of 'security'. Where is the same compassion you seek for the Israeli citizens given towards the Palestinians? It was my choice to do without the "5 star toilet" when I made the trip to Palestine………but then I am an adult not an innocent child who was born there and forced to endure this inhumane treatment.

  96. To recap:
    Amal said up above:

    “I used to believe the media and wonder how anyone could partake in a suicide bombing, but after being in Palestine, I understand”

    So he “understand” what amnesty International termed a “Crime against Humanity under the Geneva Convention and International law”, the mass murder of over a thousand completely innocent Israeli civilians mainly women and children their bodies ripped apart by fire and nails the bombs were packed with to cause maximum carnage, thousand more horribly wounded.

    Then he has the nerve, this thing which understand the killing of babies as long as they are Jewish, to talk about “Universal Love”.

    I point out this obvious contradiction between his beautiful, almost saintly claims of “Love” with his admitted “understanding” of a bunch of elderly poor people in a bus having their bodies ripped to shreds, and he calls me full of hate.
    Can you beat that? Amal “understands” a Crime against Humanity but if I point this out, he then accuses me, me of being the one full of hate.

    Nope. No sir, you Amal are the one full of hate, proved by your own words justifying the mass murder of randomly selected innocent Jewish women and children apparently because the security roadblocks put in place to stop the very suicide bombings you seem to understand do not have the 5 star toilet facilities you are apparently used to.

    All your words of “Universal love” and “god” are lies and hypocrisy of the worst kind. With a “god” like yours, whose followers “understand” and justify suicide bombings against civilians, who needs Satan.

  97. You have brought up Baruch Goldstein several times.
    The obvious difference is that this extremely rare act of terror by a Jew was done a single madman who did his evil act completely on his own, and it was condemned by all of Israeli society, from every party right or left. Opinion polls showed less than 1% percent of the Israeli public supported his crime.
    Opposing this were the hundreds of suicide attacks by Palestinians against Jewish civilians, which were financed and organized at the very top of the Palestinians leadership as a strategic method of trying to defeat Israel and the suicide bombs were supported by the vast majority of the Palestinian public, in independently conducted opinion polls by Palestinian polling organizations showing well over 70% of the general Palestinian public supported suicide attacks on innocent Israel women and children. video has been broadcast around the world showing Palestinians breaking out into mass dancing in the streets and handing out candies to celebrate each time news reached them of a successful Palestinian suicide attack on where a bus full of elderly people or a diner full of children was blown up.

    And comparing the illegality of settlement to suicide bombings is like comparing jaywalking to vehicular homicde.
    There is exactly one obscure partial sentence in the entire hundreds of clauses of the Geneva convention that may even possible refer to the settlements, a matter many legal experts do not agree on. On the other hand are the other 100 or so clauses of the Geneva Convention that are all about the illegality of deliberately targeting women and children as the suicide bombs of the Palestinians did.
    That is way Amnesty International at the most terms the settlements illegal, which may not be the case, whereas Amnesty International calls the suicide bombings of the Palestinians against Israeli civilians, acts supported across the board by the entirety of Palestinian society as "Crimes against humanity" the most serious type of crime in international law.

  98. Judo,
    You are the one filled with hate. You want the occupation to continue. You want Palestinians to suffer. You want Palestinians to be deprived of drinking water while the illegal settlers in the illegal settlements enjoy their swimming pools and green lawns. You don’t care if Palestinian women in labor and their babies die at checkpoints.

    You don’t care when Israeli soldiers shoot small kids throwing rocks at armored vehicles. You don’t care when an Israeli missile slams into a vehicle in a crowded neighborhood killing or maiming
    those unlucky enough to be in the area. I’m sure that you didn’t care when an Israeli missile slammed into a Gaza beach some months ago killing almost all of a family sitting on the beach.

    Did it bother you in the least when Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein went into a mosque in Hebron and murdered 29 Muslim men at prayer? Did it bother you that the Palestinians of Hebron were the ones punished for this act of terror by being confined to their homes while the Jews of Hebron built a plaque to honor this Israeli terrorist? Do you know that suicide bombings did not begin until after Goldstein committed his act of terror, an act of terror no different than a suicide bombing except that the coward Goldstein did not plan on giving his own life.

    I could go on and on with what Israel has done to the Palestinians. The list, unfortunately, is long.

    Far too many lives on both sides have been lost because of the occupation.
    Maybe Israel should have taken into consideration as the brutal occupation dragged on that there would come a time when Palestinians, seeing that Israel had no intention of abiding by UN Res. 242, would decide to take matters into their own hands. After all, how long were they supposed to sit back and watch their lands disappear?

    I will only say that neither Amal nor I support suicide bombings. They are cruel and terrible but no more cruel and terrible than the terror used by the Israeli army that has taken four times the number of Palestinian lives than Israeli lives.

    I know that you would probably like the Palestinians to bow down to the Israelis and just let them take as much land as they want without resisting. They are not going to do that. I wish that they would use non-violent resistance but Israel doesn’t like that either meeting non-violence with violence. Perhaps you don’t know but in the 1980s Israel deported a popular Palestinian, Mubarak Awad, because he was advocating non-violence and civil disobedience much as did blacks in the American South during the 1960s. But Israel wants no resistance to their land grab to their occupation, violent or non-violent and those who refuse to become serfs to Israel are punished.

    Thankfully, Judo, all Jews do not feel like you or like many Israelis. There are progressive Jews who are furious with what Israel has done to the name of Judaism, Jews who say that Israel does not represent us. Our legion is growing and one day we will become the voice of Jews around the world as we reach out our hands in peace to our Palestinian brothers and sisters, many of whom will reach out their hands in peace to us.

    BTW, Judo, you are the one filled with hate as you justify the murder of thousands of Palestinians not by suicide bombing but by sophisticated weapons of war including white phosphorus, bombs packed with tiny flechettes,

    This is what Amnesty International has to say about flechettes:

    Flechettes are 4cm long metal darts that are sharply pointed at the front, with four fins at the rear. Between 5,000 and 8,000 are packed into 120mm shells which are generally fired from tanks. The shells explode in the air and scatter the flechettes in a conical pattern over an area about 300m wide and 100m long.

    Makes nail packed suicide bombs sound primitive by comparison.

    Judo, if you want peace with justice for both peoples – but it appears that you don’t – the only answer is to either wipe out the Palestinians or to end the occupation. Which would you choose? Given your statements, I sadly think that your choice would be the former.

    I hope I am wrong.

  99. Judo, it’s ok to feel angry and hurt (which proves my point when I say your heart is full of hatred and your mind is closed), and you have a right to interpret my words any way you choose. What I “understood” by being in Palestine is how a person (including the Jewish) can be pushed to a point of retaliation. What I also understand is that if the peace process has to deal with someone full of hate then it will never move forward.

    You refer to the “Geneva Convention and International law”, well, that’s another story; which again would be in favor of the Palestinians because of the war crimes and the illegal settlements.

    Life is moving forward and so must our attitudes. People are becoming educated to the truth of the occupation (at least those who seek to find it). Have you ever heard of NoamChomsky? Here is a quote from a recent interview from him “Noam Chomsky: There has been a very clear shift in recent years. On US campuses and with general audiences as well. It was not long ago that police protection was a standard feature of talks at all critical of Israeli policies, meetings were broken up, audiences very hostile and abusive. By now it is sharply different, with scattered exceptions. Apologists for Israeli violence now tend often to be defensive and desperate, rather than arrogant and overbearing.” http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20080606.htm

    I have never said that bad things have not happened to Israeli citizens, but what you aren’t telling, is that bad things have also happened to the Palestinians or the truth about their living conditions (which again, are uncomparable to that of the Jewish civilians). I don’t want anyone’s baby to die, not the child of an Israeli mother or the child of a Palestinian mother!!!!!!!!!!! I am not accusing you of being full of hate for pointing out the truth, so tell the truth for both sides. I challenge you as a supporter of Israel to tell the trugh about the Palestinian suffering. I think you are full of hate because when you do hear the truth, you can’t accept it. Not because you point out the suffering of the innocent civilians of Israel.

    The checkpoints “security roadblocks” are put in place “to stop the very suicide bombings” might be a security measure for Israel, but the torture, the inhumane treatment to the men, women, and children having to endure them is unacceptable. Have the checkpoints if you must, but don’t torture those forced to endure them just because you have the power to do so in the name of ‘security’. Where is the same compassion you seek for the Israeli citizens given towards the Palestinians? It was my choice to do without the “5 star toilet” when I made the trip to Palestine………but then I am an adult not an innocent child who was born there and forced to endure this inhumane treatment.

  100. Judo,
    You cannot seem to get it through your seemingly thick head that I do not support suicide bombings. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

    The terror act by Goldstein was not isolated and, indeed, there is a plaque honoring him in one of the extremist settlements. If you had any interest in finding out, there have been many acts of terror perpetrated by settlers on innocent Palestinian civilians including the beating to death by a settler of a young Palestinian boy. I am not going to list all the acts of terror against Palestinians because you just don't care.

    I also find it more than interesting that you refuse to answer any of my questions or to condemn anything that Israel has done.

    Obviously you support everything that Israel does no matter how many innocent lives are taken so there really is no point in continuing this "discussion."

  101. from B'tselem, the Israeli human rights organization that condemns terrorism on both sides, Israeli and Palestinian.

    This is testimony given before she died from a Palestinian woman burned by white phosphorus dropped by an Israeli drone.

    Testimony: Members of Abu Halima family killed and burned in army’s bombing of their house, 3 January 2009
    Ghada Riad Rajab Abu Halima, 21

    On 29 March, ten weeks after giving her testimony to B'Tselem, Ghada Abu Halima died in an Egyptian hospital from injuries she suffered when struck by the white phosphorous.

    Until last week, I lived with my husband, Muhammad, 24, and our two little daughters, Farah, 3, and Aya, 6 months, in the a-Sifa section of Beit Lahiya. We lived in the same house as Muhammad’s parents, Sa’dallah Abu Halima, 44, and Sabah Abu Halima, 44, and his brothers and sisters: ‘Omar, 18, Yusef, 16, ‘Abd a-Rahim, 13, Zeid, 11, Hamzah, 10, ‘Ali, 4, and baby Shahd, 1.

    Our house had two floors. On the first floor were 250 square meters of storage rooms, and we lived on the second floor. We are farmers and have land next to the house.

    On Saturday night [3 January], Israeli jets dropped leaflets calling on residents of the area to leave their homes. The army did the same thing in previous incursions and we didn't leave the house, so this time, too, we decided not to leave.

    Around 4 P.M. the next day [4 January], when all the family was in the house, the army started to shell our area. A few minutes later, shells landed on our house. Fire broke out in the house and several members of the family burned to death: my father-in-law, his baby daughter Shahd, and three of his sons – ‘Abd a-Rahim, Zeid and Hamzah.

    My mother-in-law and her sons Yusef, ‘Omar and ‘Ali suffered burns. The fire spread throughout the house. I was holding my daughter Farah and we were both burned too. My clothes went up in flames, and some of my skin and Farah’s skin was scorched. Luckily, my baby daughter Aya wasn’t hurt. I ripped the clothes off my body and cried out that I was burning. I was naked in front of everybody in the house. My body was burning and the pain was excruciating. I could smell my flesh burning. I was in a horrible condition. I looked for something to cover me and shouted non-stop. My husband’s brother took off his pants and gave them to me to wear. The top part of my body remain stayed naked until my husband came and covered me with his jacket.

    Then he ran to the road to get an ambulance or find some people to help us get the killed and injured people out of the house. He couldn’t find any ambulance or firefighting vehicle. His cousins, who live nearby us, Matar and Muhammad-Hikmat Abu Halima, came to help. My husband lifted me up, and Nabilah, his aunt, picked up Farah. Another aunt, who also came to help, took Aya.

    Muhammad, Farah, Nabilah, her son ‘Ali, ‘Omar, Matar and I all got onto a wagon hitched to a tractor. Muhammad Hahmat drove it, heading to Kamal ‘Adwan Hospital. We also took the body of the baby Shahed. We left all the others in the house.

    On the way, we saw soldiers about 300 meters from al-‘Atatrah Square. Muhammad stopped the tractor and suddenly, the soldiers opened fire at us. They killed Matar and Muhammad-Hikmat. ‘Ali was wounded and managed to run away with Nabilah and ‘Omar.

    The soldiers told my husband to undress, which he did. Then he put his clothes back on and the soldiers told us to continue by foot. We left the three bodies in the wagon. My husband, Farah, and I walked toward the square, where we got into a car that happened to be passing by. He took us to a-Shifaa Hospital. It was about 6 P.M. when we got to the hospital.

    I am still hospitalized. My whole body was burned, and so was my face. Farah has third-degree burns.
    We were referred to further treatment in Egypt and they tried to take us to Rafah by ambulance, but the army fired at us on the way. The driver was slightly wounded in the face and he drove back to the hospital. Now we are waiting for authorization to leave for Egypt.

    Ghada Riad Rajab Abu Halima, 21, married with two children, resident of Beit Lahiya, Gaza Strip. Testimony was given to Muhammad Sabah at a-Shifaa Hospital on 9 January 2009.

    Killed by Israel.

  102. To clarify:

    Amnesty Int'l condemns the settlements built on occupied Palestinian Territory as they are illegal based on international law as does the entire international community including the United States. Israel is the only nation, along with some pro-Israel supporters, that dispute this legal interpretation.

    Amnesty Int'l did condemn the suicide bombings as a 'crime against humanity' as they do the blockade on the Gaza Strip. The closure of the crossings are punishing the entire 1.5 million population who are not involved in the hostilities, not just the specific individuals involved in rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit, thus making it 'collective punishment' which is against int'l law.

  103. The supposed illegality of the settlements is based on a questionable interpretation of half of one single sentence in the 1949 Geneva Convention, which refers to it being illegal to force citizens of your own country out of your borders into occupied territory. This clause was written in 1949 long before anyone ever even heard of the idea of settlers of their own free will going to live in occupied territory.

    The 1949 clause was 100% for sure intended to mean that it was illegal what the Nazis did to the Jews of Germany which was to "resettle" them *forcibly* into Poland. The whole reason the Geneva conventions were written was to forbid Nazi practices. It is impossible that this clause when written was intended to refer to people who willing go to live in occupied territories since no one had ever heard of such a thing being done in 1949.

    Just because "international law" has been retroactively changed for political reasons of kissing up to Arab dictators to subvert the clearly written original meaning of a single half a sentence in the 1949 Geneva conventions to now suddenly refer to settlements in the west bank when the Geneva convention was obviously never intended to mean any such thing does not mean this is correct.

    So-called "International law" also recognizes the illegal occupation of the entire continents of North America and Australia by illegal settlers and the theft of these two entire continents from their rightful owners who are left in abject poverty in little postage stamp sized concentration camps called reservations. Just because so-called "international law" allows the US, Canada and Australia to continue to exist on stolen land does not make that right either. Oh, and so-called “international law” seems to have permited the deliberate mass murder of millions of German and Japanese civilians at the hands of the allied air forces during World War II so “international law” is a very questionable concept to begin with.

    And as far as the blockade of Gaza, Egypt has a 25 kilometre border with Gaza that not a single Israeli soldier gets anywhere near. This 15 foot high steel and concrete barbed wire topped apartheid barrier is manned by thousand of Egyptian Muslim Arab soldiers with shoot to kill orders against any Muslim Arab Gazans who try to cross for any reason. That is the crime. That is who is blockading their own brother Muslim Arab Gaza. It is Egypt, the largest, most powerful of all the Arab countries that is collectively punishing their own brothers. Of course Amnesty ignores this geographical fact that can be seen on any map, that Egypt controls the Gaza borders as much as Israel does.

  104. Thank you Edie for pointing out the illegality of settlements. The UN also addressed this issue in Res. 242 which begins with these words:

    "Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,"

    The International Court of Justice also issued the following ruling on July 9, 2004:

    "Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development [... and] have been established in breach of international law."

    The Court also ruled that any part of the Apartheid Wall that is not built on the Green Line is illegal. The Court had no problem with the Wall if it had been built on Israeli land and not on Palestinian land. It is more than obvious that the Wall is more than for protection. It is a shameless land grab.

    Of course Israel has long thumbed its nose at the UN which created it and at International Law. Israel has decided that it will be a law unto itself.

    And Israel says that it is a "light unto the nations?" What a joke.

  105. You have brought up Baruch Goldstein several times.
    The obvious difference is that this extremely rare act of terror by a Jew was done a single madman who did his evil act completely on his own, and it was condemned by all of Israeli society, from every party right or left. Opinion polls showed less than 1% percent of the Israeli public supported his crime.
    Opposing this were the hundreds of suicide attacks by Palestinians against Jewish civilians, which were financed and organized at the very top of the Palestinians leadership as a strategic method of trying to defeat Israel and the suicide bombs were supported by the vast majority of the Palestinian public, in independently conducted opinion polls by Palestinian polling organizations showing well over 70% of the general Palestinian public supported suicide attacks on innocent Israel women and children. video has been broadcast around the world showing Palestinians breaking out into mass dancing in the streets and handing out candies to celebrate each time news reached them of a successful Palestinian suicide attack on where a bus full of elderly people or a diner full of children was blown up.

    And comparing the illegality of settlement to suicide bombings is like comparing jaywalking to vehicular homicde.
    There is exactly one obscure partial sentence in the entire hundreds of clauses of the Geneva convention that may even possible refer to the settlements, a matter many legal experts do not agree on. On the other hand are the other 100 or so clauses of the Geneva Convention that are all about the illegality of deliberately targeting women and children as the suicide bombs of the Palestinians did.
    That is way Amnesty International at the most terms the settlements illegal, which may not be the case, whereas Amnesty International calls the suicide bombings of the Palestinians against Israeli civilians, acts supported across the board by the entirety of Palestinian society as “Crimes against humanity” the most serious type of crime in international law.

  106. Judo,
    You cannot seem to get it through your seemingly thick head that I do not support suicide bombings. I don’t know how many times I have to say that.

    The terror act by Goldstein was not isolated and, indeed, there is a plaque honoring him in one of the extremist settlements. If you had any interest in finding out, there have been many acts of terror perpetrated by settlers on innocent Palestinian civilians including the beating to death by a settler of a young Palestinian boy. I am not going to list all the acts of terror against Palestinians because you just don’t care.

    I also find it more than interesting that you refuse to answer any of my questions or to condemn anything that Israel has done.

    Obviously you support everything that Israel does no matter how many innocent lives are taken so there really is no point in continuing this “discussion.”

  107. Jan, thank you for your previous posting. This will help others better understand what it is like to live in an occupied Palestine. Yet this only touches the very surface of their social conditions and life under occupation. This truth is what Tristan tried to understand and reveal to the world.

  108. from B’tselem, the Israeli human rights organization that condemns terrorism on both sides, Israeli and Palestinian.

    This is testimony given before she died from a Palestinian woman burned by white phosphorus dropped by an Israeli drone.

    Testimony: Members of Abu Halima family killed and burned in army’s bombing of their house, 3 January 2009
    Ghada Riad Rajab Abu Halima, 21

    On 29 March, ten weeks after giving her testimony to B’Tselem, Ghada Abu Halima died in an Egyptian hospital from injuries she suffered when struck by the white phosphorous.

    Until last week, I lived with my husband, Muhammad, 24, and our two little daughters, Farah, 3, and Aya, 6 months, in the a-Sifa section of Beit Lahiya. We lived in the same house as Muhammad’s parents, Sa’dallah Abu Halima, 44, and Sabah Abu Halima, 44, and his brothers and sisters: ‘Omar, 18, Yusef, 16, ‘Abd a-Rahim, 13, Zeid, 11, Hamzah, 10, ‘Ali, 4, and baby Shahd, 1.

    Our house had two floors. On the first floor were 250 square meters of storage rooms, and we lived on the second floor. We are farmers and have land next to the house.

    On Saturday night [3 January], Israeli jets dropped leaflets calling on residents of the area to leave their homes. The army did the same thing in previous incursions and we didn’t leave the house, so this time, too, we decided not to leave.

    Around 4 P.M. the next day [4 January], when all the family was in the house, the army started to shell our area. A few minutes later, shells landed on our house. Fire broke out in the house and several members of the family burned to death: my father-in-law, his baby daughter Shahd, and three of his sons – ‘Abd a-Rahim, Zeid and Hamzah.

    My mother-in-law and her sons Yusef, ‘Omar and ‘Ali suffered burns. The fire spread throughout the house. I was holding my daughter Farah and we were both burned too. My clothes went up in flames, and some of my skin and Farah’s skin was scorched. Luckily, my baby daughter Aya wasn’t hurt. I ripped the clothes off my body and cried out that I was burning. I was naked in front of everybody in the house. My body was burning and the pain was excruciating. I could smell my flesh burning. I was in a horrible condition. I looked for something to cover me and shouted non-stop. My husband’s brother took off his pants and gave them to me to wear. The top part of my body remain stayed naked until my husband came and covered me with his jacket.

    Then he ran to the road to get an ambulance or find some people to help us get the killed and injured people out of the house. He couldn’t find any ambulance or firefighting vehicle. His cousins, who live nearby us, Matar and Muhammad-Hikmat Abu Halima, came to help. My husband lifted me up, and Nabilah, his aunt, picked up Farah. Another aunt, who also came to help, took Aya.

    Muhammad, Farah, Nabilah, her son ‘Ali, ‘Omar, Matar and I all got onto a wagon hitched to a tractor. Muhammad Hahmat drove it, heading to Kamal ‘Adwan Hospital. We also took the body of the baby Shahed. We left all the others in the house.

    On the way, we saw soldiers about 300 meters from al-‘Atatrah Square. Muhammad stopped the tractor and suddenly, the soldiers opened fire at us. They killed Matar and Muhammad-Hikmat. ‘Ali was wounded and managed to run away with Nabilah and ‘Omar.

    The soldiers told my husband to undress, which he did. Then he put his clothes back on and the soldiers told us to continue by foot. We left the three bodies in the wagon. My husband, Farah, and I walked toward the square, where we got into a car that happened to be passing by. He took us to a-Shifaa Hospital. It was about 6 P.M. when we got to the hospital.

    I am still hospitalized. My whole body was burned, and so was my face. Farah has third-degree burns.
    We were referred to further treatment in Egypt and they tried to take us to Rafah by ambulance, but the army fired at us on the way. The driver was slightly wounded in the face and he drove back to the hospital. Now we are waiting for authorization to leave for Egypt.

    Ghada Riad Rajab Abu Halima, 21, married with two children, resident of Beit Lahiya, Gaza Strip. Testimony was given to Muhammad Sabah at a-Shifaa Hospital on 9 January 2009.

    Killed by Israel.

  109. To clarify:

    Amnesty Int’l condemns the settlements built on occupied Palestinian Territory as they are illegal based on international law as does the entire international community including the United States. Israel is the only nation, along with some pro-Israel supporters, that dispute this legal interpretation.

    Amnesty Int’l did condemn the suicide bombings as a ‘crime against humanity’ as they do the blockade on the Gaza Strip. The closure of the crossings are punishing the entire 1.5 million population who are not involved in the hostilities, not just the specific individuals involved in rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit, thus making it ‘collective punishment’ which is against int’l law.

  110. The supposed illegality of the settlements is based on a questionable interpretation of half of one single sentence in the 1949 Geneva Convention, which refers to it being illegal to force citizens of your own country out of your borders into occupied territory. This clause was written in 1949 long before anyone ever even heard of the idea of settlers of their own free will going to live in occupied territory.

    The 1949 clause was 100% for sure intended to mean that it was illegal what the Nazis did to the Jews of Germany which was to “resettle” them *forcibly* into Poland. The whole reason the Geneva conventions were written was to forbid Nazi practices. It is impossible that this clause when written was intended to refer to people who willing go to live in occupied territories since no one had ever heard of such a thing being done in 1949.

    Just because “international law” has been retroactively changed for political reasons of kissing up to Arab dictators to subvert the clearly written original meaning of a single half a sentence in the 1949 Geneva conventions to now suddenly refer to settlements in the west bank when the Geneva convention was obviously never intended to mean any such thing does not mean this is correct.

    So-called “International law” also recognizes the illegal occupation of the entire continents of North America and Australia by illegal settlers and the theft of these two entire continents from their rightful owners who are left in abject poverty in little postage stamp sized concentration camps called reservations. Just because so-called “international law” allows the US, Canada and Australia to continue to exist on stolen land does not make that right either. Oh, and so-called “international law” seems to have permited the deliberate mass murder of millions of German and Japanese civilians at the hands of the allied air forces during World War II so “international law” is a very questionable concept to begin with.

    And as far as the blockade of Gaza, Egypt has a 25 kilometre border with Gaza that not a single Israeli soldier gets anywhere near. This 15 foot high steel and concrete barbed wire topped apartheid barrier is manned by thousand of Egyptian Muslim Arab soldiers with shoot to kill orders against any Muslim Arab Gazans who try to cross for any reason. That is the crime. That is who is blockading their own brother Muslim Arab Gaza. It is Egypt, the largest, most powerful of all the Arab countries that is collectively punishing their own brothers. Of course Amnesty ignores this geographical fact that can be seen on any map, that Egypt controls the Gaza borders as much as Israel does.

  111. Thank you Edie for pointing out the illegality of settlements. The UN also addressed this issue in Res. 242 which begins with these words:

    “Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,”

    The International Court of Justice also issued the following ruling on July 9, 2004:

    “Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development [... and] have been established in breach of international law.”

    The Court also ruled that any part of the Apartheid Wall that is not built on the Green Line is illegal. The Court had no problem with the Wall if it had been built on Israeli land and not on Palestinian land. It is more than obvious that the Wall is more than for protection. It is a shameless land grab.

    Of course Israel has long thumbed its nose at the UN which created it and at International Law. Israel has decided that it will be a law unto itself.

    And Israel says that it is a “light unto the nations?” What a joke.

  112. Jan, thank you for your previous posting. This will help others better understand what it is like to live in an occupied Palestine. Yet this only touches the very surface of their social conditions and life under occupation. This truth is what Tristan tried to understand and reveal to the world.

  113. Article 33 of the IV Geneva Conventions: No protected person may be punished for an effence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism is prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property is prohibited.

    1.5 million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are guilty of nothing, but living in the Gaza Strip, yet the restrictions on the crossings are affecting everyone in the strip, not just the militants guilty of rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit. Israeli politicians have publicly stated that the purpose of the closures are to pressure the Palestinian people.

    The humanitarian aid being allowed into the strip is arbitrary; some days there are hundreds of trucks – others under 100. The aid being allowed in is not nearly enough for a population of 1.5 million, let alone a population that has been purposefully reduced to live in a constant humanitarian crisis and then crushed further with the bombardment from Dec. 27th to Jan. 18th. Food items, spare medical parts and mechanical parts, fuel and medicine are still not being allowed in unhindered.

    This isn't simply an AI position, but a condition documented by other NGO's, the UN and independent reporters. The US State Dept. is in regular negotiations with the GOI to let more humanitarian aid in as the quantity is inadequate to meet the needs and restrictions arbitrary. It should be noted that more food items are now being allowed entry after the US pushed to have items such as yeast, biscuits and pasta be allowed in although tomato paste was still denied and plasic mats which could be used in mosques.

    '… plenty of fresh water from the Israeli water system' and 'free electricity' is given to Gaza by Israel simply not true.

    For the latest in the humanitarian situation, visit the UN Office of Humanitarian Affairs for the OT at http://www.ochaopt.org website.

  114. Typical of anti-Israeli propagandists is to never quote the second part of Resolution 242 which says

    “Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

    Yet, in direct violation of resolution 242, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and the other 19 out of 21 members of the Arab League all maintain, 42 years after this resolution was passed, full declared states of war and refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist. Funny, isn’t it, how selective the application of resolution 242 seems to be when you hate Israel and want to see it wiped of the face of the earth.

    As far as the blockade of Gaza by Egypt and Israel humanitarian assistance is not blocked, there are hundreds of trucks a day flowing food and medical aid into Gaza, as well as plentiful fresh water from the Israeli water system and hundreds of millions of dollars a year of free electricity being provided from connections to the Israeli power grid. Under international law that is all Egypt or Israel are required to allow through its own borders. Economic and military blockades are a completely legal recognized legitimate form of warfare under international law as long as humanitarian aid, food, medicine, water and electricity is not prevented which Israel does not. Sorry about not allowing Hamas to import surface to surface missiles as you seem to want Egypt or Israel to do. Hamas, rulers of Gaza are in a self declared state of war until the destruction of the state of Israel and Egypt ( yes they want to overthrow the government of Egypt too) as their core goals, and so under international laws of war Gaza can be completely legally blockaded within humanitarian bounds which Egypt and Israel are keeping to.

    The International Court of Justice, is that the court that has never said a word about Russia’s extermination of a third of the population of Chechnya, or of China’s ongoing 60 year illegal occupation of an entire country Tibet, and the cultural genocide they are committing by importing tens of millions of ethnic Han Chinese settlers into illegal settlements in Tibet in a deliberate act to destroy the 3000 year old Tibetan civilization. That is not even to mention the lack of any rulings this so-called court of Justice has never made against the illegal US and British invasions and occupations of Iraq leading to hundreds of thousands dead. So when this farcical so-called kangaroo court of "Justice" makes rulings against these criminal actions, you can then prove it is not biased and picking on the easy target of Israel and then its ruling would deserve some consideration. Evidently your definition of the word "Justice" and the dictionary definition are not the same.

  115. Thanks Edie for the link my point exactly. What would I do without your help in finding documents to prove my point!
    http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_hu

    "ACCESS INTO THE GAZA STRIP / CROSSINGS 1
    During the period from 22 to 28 March, a total of 721 truckloads of goods including 129 for humanitarian aid agencies (18%), were allowed entry to Gaza compared to 728 reported during the last week. This week new food items (tea, yeast, salt, potato chips) Food supplies accounted for the vast majority of imported commodities, 568 truckloads (79 percent), followed by hygiene/cleaning supplies (including soap and shampoo), which accounted for 118 truckloads (16 percent). Non-edible consumables (blankets and mattresses) made up 26 truckloads (4 percent). The remaining 9 truckloads were divided among the medical supplies (1), education/stationery supplies (2),agricultural raw materials (4) and packaging applications (2).

    Some 1,173 tons of cooking
    gas entered during the week compared to 1,017.5 tons the previous week.

    A total of 2,159,620 litres of industrial gas for the Gaza Power Plant was allowed in;

    GSOA reported that fuel continues to be transferred to Gaza through the Rafah-Egypt border tunnels, with nearly 100,000 litres of diesel and 70,000 litres of petrol being transferred per day for the open market.

    Out of the 1.7 million residents of Gaza, the number of people without easy access to water currently stands at 35,000 (down from 40,000 last
    week).

    On 22 March, the Hamas de facto authorities in the Gaza Strip took control of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department. This is the main office which assesses and processes referral applications by Gaza patients for specialized hospital treatment outside Gaza. The Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health in Ramallah will not approve or fund applications as a result, and Egypt will not allow them to exit Gaza unless they have been approved by the Palestinian Authority. All Gaza patients referrals have been halted due this action affecting many patients with serious and complicated conditons."

    The only thing this report leaves out is that the Gazan power grip is connected to both the Israeli and the Egyptian power grids by High voltage line that go into Gaza over the borders and hundreds of millions of dollars a year in free electricity is provided to the people of Gaza for the express purpose of averting possible humanitarian crisis.

    Egypt with its 20 foot high Apartheid Wall topped with thousands of shoot-to-kill Arab Muslim Egyptian soldiers manning it between it and the people of Gaza, and Israel are fulfilling every international and humanitarian law to the letter in regards to Gaza with these exports they allow through their 100% legal legitimate embargo against the Hamas government who declared war Egypt and Israel.

  116. Article 33 of the IV Geneva Conventions: No protected person may be punished for an effence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism is prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property is prohibited.

    1.5 million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are guilty of nothing, but living in the Gaza Strip, yet the restrictions on the crossings are affecting everyone in the strip, not just the militants guilty of rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit. Israeli politicians have publicly stated that the purpose of the closures are to pressure the Palestinian people.

    The humanitarian aid being allowed into the strip is arbitrary; some days there are hundreds of trucks – others under 100. The aid being allowed in is not nearly enough for a population of 1.5 million, let alone a population that has been purposefully reduced to live in a constant humanitarian crisis and then crushed further with the bombardment from Dec. 27th to Jan. 18th. Food items, spare medical parts and mechanical parts, fuel and medicine are still not being allowed in unhindered.

    This isn't simply an AI position, but a condition documented by other NGO's, the UN and independent reporters. The US State Dept. is in regular negotiations with the GOI to let more humanitarian aid in as the quantity is inadequate to meet the needs and restrictions arbitrary. It should be noted that more food items are now being allowed entry after the US pushed to have items such as yeast, biscuits and pasta be allowed in although tomato paste was still denied and plasic mats which could be used in mosques.

    '… plenty of fresh water from the Israeli water system' and 'free electricity' is given to Gaza by Israel simply not true.

    For the latest in the humanitarian situation, visit the UN Office of Humanitarian Affairs for the OT at http://www.ochaopt.org website.

  117. Article 33 of the IV Geneva Conventions: No protected person may be punished for an effence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism is prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property is prohibited.

    1.5 million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are guilty of nothing, but living in the Gaza Strip, yet the restrictions on the crossings are affecting everyone in the strip, not just the militants guilty of rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit. Israeli politicians have publicly stated that the purpose of the closures are to pressure the Palestinian people.

    The humanitarian aid being allowed into the strip is arbitrary; some days there are hundreds of trucks – others under 100. The aid being allowed in is not nearly enough for a population of 1.5 million, let alone a population that has been purposefully reduced to live in a constant humanitarian crisis and then crushed further with the bombardment from Dec. 27th to Jan. 18th. Food items, spare medical parts and mechanical parts, fuel and medicine are still not being allowed in unhindered.

    This isn't simply an AI position, but a condition documented by other NGO's, the UN and independent reporters. The US State Dept. is in regular negotiations with the GOI to let more humanitarian aid in as the quantity is inadequate to meet the needs and restrictions arbitrary. It should be noted that more food items are now being allowed entry after the US pushed to have items such as yeast, biscuits and pasta be allowed in although tomato paste was still denied and plasic mats which could be used in mosques.

    '… plenty of fresh water from the Israeli water system' and 'free electricity' is given to Gaza by Israel simply not true.

    For the latest in the humanitarian situation, visit the UN Office of Humanitarian Affairs for the OT at http://www.ochaopt.org website.

  118. Wow – Judo – I just don't have the time to refute every twist and turn of your argument or mis-representation of the facts. Your hearing and reading is very selective to support your already established perspective. The report also states (in a section you chose not to copy in) that the aid provided is operating at only approximately 60-70% of what is needed. And again, there is no free electricity to Gaza.

    My advice to readers who really don't know what to believe is to check the facts out for yourself, not from selected sections of documents from one moment in time, but from trusted, independent organizations that cover a period of time.

    I would recommend http://www.amnesty.org for documents from Amnesty as well as other human rights organizations such as B'tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Human Rights Watch, Physicians for Human Rights and other orgs whose agenda is based on human rights. This is not to say the findings aren't used for political purposes by different parties, but the organizations themselves and their reports are highly respected worldwide and have proven themselved credible over time.

    There is also the Office for Humanitarian Affairs at the UN as well as reports put out by UNICEF. Although there are those that have accused offices of the UN to be politicized, these are good places to go for humanitarian info and info on the condition of children. There is also Oxfam, CARE International and other humanitarian organizations.

    I would also recommend http://www.haaretz.com and http://www.jpost.com. These are both Israeli daily newspapers that have English websites. Ha'aretz is considered to have viewpoints that tend left while the Jerusalem Post is considered more conservative. There is also the US based McClatchy Newspapers at http://www.mcclatchydc.com which for being a mainstream media outlet is respected for thinking 'outside the box (or beltway)'. They have a permanent bureau chief based in Jerusalem. International media websites should also be read. Again, as any media site – look at articles over-all, not just individual articles pulled to support one argument or another. Very often, papers in Israel are much more willing to discuss the situation whereas any discussion in the US on this region is so often penetrated by hyperbole.

    These are only a few suggestions.

  119. Thanks Edie for the link my point exactly. What would I do without your help in finding documents to prove my point!
    http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_hu

    "ACCESS INTO THE GAZA STRIP / CROSSINGS 1
    During the period from 22 to 28 March, a total of 721 truckloads of goods including 129 for humanitarian aid agencies (18%), were allowed entry to Gaza compared to 728 reported during the last week. This week new food items (tea, yeast, salt, potato chips) Food supplies accounted for the vast majority of imported commodities, 568 truckloads (79 percent), followed by hygiene/cleaning supplies (including soap and shampoo), which accounted for 118 truckloads (16 percent). Non-edible consumables (blankets and mattresses) made up 26 truckloads (4 percent). The remaining 9 truckloads were divided among the medical supplies (1), education/stationery supplies (2),agricultural raw materials (4) and packaging applications (2).

    Some 1,173 tons of cooking
    gas entered during the week compared to 1,017.5 tons the previous week.

    A total of 2,159,620 litres of industrial gas for the Gaza Power Plant was allowed in;

    GSOA reported that fuel continues to be transferred to Gaza through the Rafah-Egypt border tunnels, with nearly 100,000 litres of diesel and 70,000 litres of petrol being transferred per day for the open market.

    Out of the 1.7 million residents of Gaza, the number of people without easy access to water currently stands at 35,000 (down from 40,000 last
    week).

    On 22 March, the Hamas de facto authorities in the Gaza Strip took control of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department. This is the main office which assesses and processes referral applications by Gaza patients for specialized hospital treatment outside Gaza. The Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health in Ramallah will not approve or fund applications as a result, and Egypt will not allow them to exit Gaza unless they have been approved by the Palestinian Authority. All Gaza patients referrals have been halted due this action affecting many patients with serious and complicated conditons."

    The only thing this report leaves out is that the Gazan power grip is connected to both the Israeli and the Egyptian power grids by High voltage line that go into Gaza over the borders and hundreds of millions of dollars a year in free electricity is provided to the people of Gaza for the express purpose of averting possible humanitarian crisis.

    Egypt with its 20 foot high Apartheid Wall topped with thousands of shoot-to-kill Arab Muslim Egyptian soldiers manning it between it and the people of Gaza, and Israel are fulfilling every international and humanitarian law to the letter in regards to Gaza with these exports they allow through their 100% legal legitimate embargo against the Hamas government who declared war Egypt and Israel.

  120. Thanks Edie for the link my point exactly. What would I do without your help in finding documents to prove my point!
    http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_hu

    "ACCESS INTO THE GAZA STRIP / CROSSINGS 1
    During the period from 22 to 28 March, a total of 721 truckloads of goods including 129 for humanitarian aid agencies (18%), were allowed entry to Gaza compared to 728 reported during the last week. This week new food items (tea, yeast, salt, potato chips) Food supplies accounted for the vast majority of imported commodities, 568 truckloads (79 percent), followed by hygiene/cleaning supplies (including soap and shampoo), which accounted for 118 truckloads (16 percent). Non-edible consumables (blankets and mattresses) made up 26 truckloads (4 percent). The remaining 9 truckloads were divided among the medical supplies (1), education/stationery supplies (2),agricultural raw materials (4) and packaging applications (2).

    Some 1,173 tons of cooking
    gas entered during the week compared to 1,017.5 tons the previous week.

    A total of 2,159,620 litres of industrial gas for the Gaza Power Plant was allowed in;

    GSOA reported that fuel continues to be transferred to Gaza through the Rafah-Egypt border tunnels, with nearly 100,000 litres of diesel and 70,000 litres of petrol being transferred per day for the open market.

    Out of the 1.7 million residents of Gaza, the number of people without easy access to water currently stands at 35,000 (down from 40,000 last
    week).

    On 22 March, the Hamas de facto authorities in the Gaza Strip took control of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department. This is the main office which assesses and processes referral applications by Gaza patients for specialized hospital treatment outside Gaza. The Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health in Ramallah will not approve or fund applications as a result, and Egypt will not allow them to exit Gaza unless they have been approved by the Palestinian Authority. All Gaza patients referrals have been halted due this action affecting many patients with serious and complicated conditons."

    The only thing this report leaves out is that the Gazan power grip is connected to both the Israeli and the Egyptian power grids by High voltage line that go into Gaza over the borders and hundreds of millions of dollars a year in free electricity is provided to the people of Gaza for the express purpose of averting possible humanitarian crisis.

    Egypt with its 20 foot high Apartheid Wall topped with thousands of shoot-to-kill Arab Muslim Egyptian soldiers manning it between it and the people of Gaza, and Israel are fulfilling every international and humanitarian law to the letter in regards to Gaza with these exports they allow through their 100% legal legitimate embargo against the Hamas government who declared war Egypt and Israel.

  121. Wow – Judo – I just don't have the time to refute every twist and turn of your argument or mis-representation of the facts. Your hearing and reading is very selective to support your already established perspective. The report also states (in a section you chose not to copy in) that the aid provided is operating at only approximately 60-70% of what is needed. And again, there is no free electricity to Gaza.

    My advice to readers who really don't know what to believe is to check the facts out for yourself, not from selected sections of documents from one moment in time, but from trusted, independent organizations that cover a period of time.

    I would recommend http://www.amnesty.org for documents from Amnesty as well as other human rights organizations such as B'tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Human Rights Watch, Physicians for Human Rights and other orgs whose agenda is based on human rights. This is not to say the findings aren't used for political purposes by different parties, but the organizations themselves and their reports are highly respected worldwide and have proven themselved credible over time.

    There is also the Office for Humanitarian Affairs at the UN as well as reports put out by UNICEF. Although there are those that have accused offices of the UN to be politicized, these are good places to go for humanitarian info and info on the condition of children. There is also Oxfam, CARE International and other humanitarian organizations.

    I would also recommend http://www.haaretz.com and http://www.jpost.com. These are both Israeli daily newspapers that have English websites. Ha'aretz is considered to have viewpoints that tend left while the Jerusalem Post is considered more conservative. There is also the US based McClatchy Newspapers at http://www.mcclatchydc.com which for being a mainstream media outlet is respected for thinking 'outside the box (or beltway)'. They have a permanent bureau chief based in Jerusalem. International media websites should also be read. Again, as any media site – look at articles over-all, not just individual articles pulled to support one argument or another. Very often, papers in Israel are much more willing to discuss the situation whereas any discussion in the US on this region is so often penetrated by hyperbole.

    These are only a few suggestions.

  122. Wow – Judo – I just don't have the time to refute every twist and turn of your argument or mis-representation of the facts. Your hearing and reading is very selective to support your already established perspective. The report also states (in a section you chose not to copy in) that the aid provided is operating at only approximately 60-70% of what is needed. And again, there is no free electricity to Gaza.

    My advice to readers who really don't know what to believe is to check the facts out for yourself, not from selected sections of documents from one moment in time, but from trusted, independent organizations that cover a period of time.

    I would recommend http://www.amnesty.org for documents from Amnesty as well as other human rights organizations such as B'tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Human Rights Watch, Physicians for Human Rights and other orgs whose agenda is based on human rights. This is not to say the findings aren't used for political purposes by different parties, but the organizations themselves and their reports are highly respected worldwide and have proven themselved credible over time.

    There is also the Office for Humanitarian Affairs at the UN as well as reports put out by UNICEF. Although there are those that have accused offices of the UN to be politicized, these are good places to go for humanitarian info and info on the condition of children. There is also Oxfam, CARE International and other humanitarian organizations.

    I would also recommend http://www.haaretz.com and http://www.jpost.com. These are both Israeli daily newspapers that have English websites. Ha'aretz is considered to have viewpoints that tend left while the Jerusalem Post is considered more conservative. There is also the US based McClatchy Newspapers at http://www.mcclatchydc.com which for being a mainstream media outlet is respected for thinking 'outside the box (or beltway)'. They have a permanent bureau chief based in Jerusalem. International media websites should also be read. Again, as any media site – look at articles over-all, not just individual articles pulled to support one argument or another. Very often, papers in Israel are much more willing to discuss the situation whereas any discussion in the US on this region is so often penetrated by hyperbole.

    These are only a few suggestions.

  123. Judo, you conveniently omitted the first part of the report which stated as follows:

    FIELD UPDATE ON GAZA FROM THE HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR
    24 – 30 March 2009
    SITUATION OvERvIEw
    In addition to limitations on humanitarian deliveries, restrictions on imports and exports in general continue
    to seriously affect the living conditions of the population. The vast majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip
    rely on local farming to produce affordable fresh foods, including fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. Movement
    restrictions continue to prevent herders and farmers from accessing areas near the borders. Fishermen
    stand to lose substantial income as a result of new restrictions that limit fishing to three miles from Gaza’s
    shores.
    All Gaza patient referrals abroad have been halted affecting many patients with serious and complicated
    conditions due to the taking over of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department
    by the Hamas authorities in Gaza. The United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator, together with the World
    Health Organization, has issued a joint statement expressing serious concerns about the halting of referrals
    out of the Gaza Strip.
    Two months after the launch of the Flash Appeal for Gaza, the level of funding received stands at just 35
    percent. For example, the 27 agricultural recovery projects aimed at protecting the livelihoods of the most
    vulnerable farming families received only USD 2.3 million of the USD 30 million requested.
    During the reporting period, two Palestinians were injured, one civilian and one armed man in two separate
    incidents. In addition, Israeli patrol boats opened fire on five different occasions warning Palestinian fishing
    boats west of Rafah and west of Beit Lahia, forcing the boats to return to shore.

    You also neglected to say how arbitrary are the decisions on what can be allowed by Israel to go into Gaza. For instance pasta was on the verboten list and only when Sen. Kerry objected was the pasta allowed to go through. Maybe the Israelis were afraid that the Palestinians would pummel Israel with wet noodles.

    Also the Israelis are allowing no building materials such as concrete into this Gaza prison. Thousands of people are homeless due to Israel's hideous bombardment and deliberate destruction of their homes. Israel is one of the great home wreckers of this century. Before Israel pulled out of Gaza locking Palestinians into their prison, they destroyed hundreds and hundreds of homes leaving thousands homeless and a vast wasteland.

    I gather that you really don't care what happens to the Palestinians but you should. Because when you treat people in the way that the Israelis have treated the Palestinians it will only come back to you in ways that can prove most painful.

    If you care for peace rather than war and death then you had better see that there is justice for both peoples and work to end the occupation. Otherwise this vicious cycle will continue forever and we Jews, as well as Palestinians, will pay the price.

    BTW, you have yet to answer my question as to what the Palestinians can do to end the occupation and the theft of their lands. Have you any ideas or do you just prefer the status quo?

  124. Typical of anti-Israeli propagandists is to never quote the second part of Resolution 242 which says

    “Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

    Yet, in direct violation of resolution 242, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and the other 19 out of 21 members of the Arab League all maintain, 42 years after this resolution was passed, full declared states of war and refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist. Funny, isn’t it, how selective the application of resolution 242 seems to be when you hate Israel and want to see it wiped of the face of the earth.

    As far as the blockade of Gaza by Egypt and Israel humanitarian assistance is not blocked, there are hundreds of trucks a day flowing food and medical aid into Gaza, as well as plentiful fresh water from the Israeli water system and hundreds of millions of dollars a year of free electricity being provided from connections to the Israeli power grid. Under international law that is all Egypt or Israel are required to allow through its own borders. Economic and military blockades are a completely legal recognized legitimate form of warfare under international law as long as humanitarian aid, food, medicine, water and electricity is not prevented which Israel does not. Sorry about not allowing Hamas to import surface to surface missiles as you seem to want Egypt or Israel to do. Hamas, rulers of Gaza are in a self declared state of war until the destruction of the state of Israel and Egypt ( yes they want to overthrow the government of Egypt too) as their core goals, and so under international laws of war Gaza can be completely legally blockaded within humanitarian bounds which Egypt and Israel are keeping to.

    The International Court of Justice, is that the court that has never said a word about Russia’s extermination of a third of the population of Chechnya, or of China’s ongoing 60 year illegal occupation of an entire country Tibet, and the cultural genocide they are committing by importing tens of millions of ethnic Han Chinese settlers into illegal settlements in Tibet in a deliberate act to destroy the 3000 year old Tibetan civilization. That is not even to mention the lack of any rulings this so-called court of Justice has never made against the illegal US and British invasions and occupations of Iraq leading to hundreds of thousands dead. So when this farcical so-called kangaroo court of “Justice” makes rulings against these criminal actions, you can then prove it is not biased and picking on the easy target of Israel and then its ruling would deserve some consideration. Evidently your definition of the word “Justice” and the dictionary definition are not the same.

  125. Great articles…………………and probably the status quo………….lol. Sometimes it's easier to deny the truth than it is to face reality. You are right, Edie, Palestinians do not control their water rights. It is often cut off on the Palestinians as a punishment or humiliation, and this is just one of the inhumane treatments they have to suffer through. If you know one side of the story first hand, then you have to know the other. That is why both sides of the story need to be told.

    I can't imagine anyone in this world wanting themselves or their family to endure what innocent people on both sides of this conflict have had to endure. The occupation must stop. We will never change the mind of people who are biased to either side, but what we can do is educate other people who might not know the truth and give them the opportunity to have all the facts.

  126. Article 33 of the IV Geneva Conventions: No protected person may be punished for an effence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism is prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property is prohibited.

    1.5 million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are guilty of nothing, but living in the Gaza Strip, yet the restrictions on the crossings are affecting everyone in the strip, not just the militants guilty of rocket fire or the capture of Gilad Shalit. Israeli politicians have publicly stated that the purpose of the closures are to pressure the Palestinian people.

    The humanitarian aid being allowed into the strip is arbitrary; some days there are hundreds of trucks – others under 100. The aid being allowed in is not nearly enough for a population of 1.5 million, let alone a population that has been purposefully reduced to live in a constant humanitarian crisis and then crushed further with the bombardment from Dec. 27th to Jan. 18th. Food items, spare medical parts and mechanical parts, fuel and medicine are still not being allowed in unhindered.

    This isn’t simply an AI position, but a condition documented by other NGO’s, the UN and independent reporters. The US State Dept. is in regular negotiations with the GOI to let more humanitarian aid in as the quantity is inadequate to meet the needs and restrictions arbitrary. It should be noted that more food items are now being allowed entry after the US pushed to have items such as yeast, biscuits and pasta be allowed in although tomato paste was still denied and plasic mats which could be used in mosques.

    ‘… plenty of fresh water from the Israeli water system’ and ‘free electricity’ is given to Gaza by Israel simply not true.

    For the latest in the humanitarian situation, visit the UN Office of Humanitarian Affairs for the OT at http://www.ochaopt.org website.

  127. Thanks Edie for the link my point exactly. What would I do without your help in finding documents to prove my point!

    http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_humanitarian_situation_report_2009_03_30_english.pdf

    “ACCESS INTO THE GAZA STRIP / CROSSINGS 1
    During the period from 22 to 28 March, a total of 721 truckloads of goods including 129 for humanitarian aid agencies (18%), were allowed entry to Gaza compared to 728 reported during the last week. This week new food items (tea, yeast, salt, potato chips) Food supplies accounted for the vast majority of imported commodities, 568 truckloads (79 percent), followed by hygiene/cleaning supplies (including soap and shampoo), which accounted for 118 truckloads (16 percent). Non-edible consumables (blankets and mattresses) made up 26 truckloads (4 percent). The remaining 9 truckloads were divided among the medical supplies (1), education/stationery supplies (2),agricultural raw materials (4) and packaging applications (2).

    Some 1,173 tons of cooking
    gas entered during the week compared to 1,017.5 tons the previous week.

    A total of 2,159,620 litres of industrial gas for the Gaza Power Plant was allowed in;

    GSOA reported that fuel continues to be transferred to Gaza through the Rafah-Egypt border tunnels, with nearly 100,000 litres of diesel and 70,000 litres of petrol being transferred per day for the open market.

    Out of the 1.7 million residents of Gaza, the number of people without easy access to water currently stands at 35,000 (down from 40,000 last
    week).

    On 22 March, the Hamas de facto authorities in the Gaza Strip took control of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department. This is the main office which assesses and processes referral applications by Gaza patients for specialized hospital treatment outside Gaza. The Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health in Ramallah will not approve or fund applications as a result, and Egypt will not allow them to exit Gaza unless they have been approved by the Palestinian Authority. All Gaza patients referrals have been halted due this action affecting many patients with serious and complicated conditons.”

    The only thing this report leaves out is that the Gazan power grip is connected to both the Israeli and the Egyptian power grids by High voltage line that go into Gaza over the borders and hundreds of millions of dollars a year in free electricity is provided to the people of Gaza for the express purpose of averting possible humanitarian crisis.

    Egypt with its 20 foot high Apartheid Wall topped with thousands of shoot-to-kill Arab Muslim Egyptian soldiers manning it between it and the people of Gaza, and Israel are fulfilling every international and humanitarian law to the letter in regards to Gaza with these exports they allow through their 100% legal legitimate embargo against the Hamas government who declared war Egypt and Israel.

  128. Wow – Judo – I just don’t have the time to refute every twist and turn of your argument or mis-representation of the facts. Your hearing and reading is very selective to support your already established perspective. The report also states (in a section you chose not to copy in) that the aid provided is operating at only approximately 60-70% of what is needed. And again, there is no free electricity to Gaza.

    My advice to readers who really don’t know what to believe is to check the facts out for yourself, not from selected sections of documents from one moment in time, but from trusted, independent organizations that cover a period of time.

    I would recommend http://www.amnesty.org for documents from Amnesty as well as other human rights organizations such as B’tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Human Rights Watch, Physicians for Human Rights and other orgs whose agenda is based on human rights. This is not to say the findings aren’t used for political purposes by different parties, but the organizations themselves and their reports are highly respected worldwide and have proven themselved credible over time.

    There is also the Office for Humanitarian Affairs at the UN as well as reports put out by UNICEF. Although there are those that have accused offices of the UN to be politicized, these are good places to go for humanitarian info and info on the condition of children. There is also Oxfam, CARE International and other humanitarian organizations.

    I would also recommend http://www.haaretz.com and http://www.jpost.com. These are both Israeli daily newspapers that have English websites. Ha’aretz is considered to have viewpoints that tend left while the Jerusalem Post is considered more conservative. There is also the US based McClatchy Newspapers at http://www.mcclatchydc.com which for being a mainstream media outlet is respected for thinking ‘outside the box (or beltway)’. They have a permanent bureau chief based in Jerusalem. International media websites should also be read. Again, as any media site – look at articles over-all, not just individual articles pulled to support one argument or another. Very often, papers in Israel are much more willing to discuss the situation whereas any discussion in the US on this region is so often penetrated by hyperbole.

    These are only a few suggestions.

  129. Judo, you conveniently omitted the first part of the report which stated as follows:

    FIELD UPDATE ON GAZA FROM THE HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR
    24 – 30 March 2009
    SITUATION OvERvIEw
    In addition to limitations on humanitarian deliveries, restrictions on imports and exports in general continue
    to seriously affect the living conditions of the population. The vast majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip
    rely on local farming to produce affordable fresh foods, including fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. Movement
    restrictions continue to prevent herders and farmers from accessing areas near the borders. Fishermen
    stand to lose substantial income as a result of new restrictions that limit fishing to three miles from Gaza’s
    shores.
    All Gaza patient referrals abroad have been halted affecting many patients with serious and complicated
    conditions due to the taking over of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health Referral Abroad Department
    by the Hamas authorities in Gaza. The United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator, together with the World
    Health Organization, has issued a joint statement expressing serious concerns about the halting of referrals
    out of the Gaza Strip.
    Two months after the launch of the Flash Appeal for Gaza, the level of funding received stands at just 35
    percent. For example, the 27 agricultural recovery projects aimed at protecting the livelihoods of the most
    vulnerable farming families received only USD 2.3 million of the USD 30 million requested.
    During the reporting period, two Palestinians were injured, one civilian and one armed man in two separate
    incidents. In addition, Israeli patrol boats opened fire on five different occasions warning Palestinian fishing
    boats west of Rafah and west of Beit Lahia, forcing the boats to return to shore.

    You also neglected to say how arbitrary are the decisions on what can be allowed by Israel to go into Gaza. For instance pasta was on the verboten list and only when Sen. Kerry objected was the pasta allowed to go through. Maybe the Israelis were afraid that the Palestinians would pummel Israel with wet noodles.

    Also the Israelis are allowing no building materials such as concrete into this Gaza prison. Thousands of people are homeless due to Israel’s hideous bombardment and deliberate destruction of their homes. Israel is one of the great home wreckers of this century. Before Israel pulled out of Gaza locking Palestinians into their prison, they destroyed hundreds and hundreds of homes leaving thousands homeless and a vast wasteland.

    I gather that you really don’t care what happens to the Palestinians but you should. Because when you treat people in the way that the Israelis have treated the Palestinians it will only come back to you in ways that can prove most painful.

    If you care for peace rather than war and death then you had better see that there is justice for both peoples and work to end the occupation. Otherwise this vicious cycle will continue forever and we Jews, as well as Palestinians, will pay the price.

    BTW, you have yet to answer my question as to what the Palestinians can do to end the occupation and the theft of their lands. Have you any ideas or do you just prefer the status quo?

  130. Great articles…………………and probably the status quo………….lol. Sometimes it’s easier to deny the truth than it is to face reality. You are right, Edie, Palestinians do not control their water rights. It is often cut off on the Palestinians as a punishment or humiliation, and this is just one of the inhumane treatments they have to suffer through. If you know one side of the story first hand, then you have to know the other. That is why both sides of the story need to be told.

    I can’t imagine anyone in this world wanting themselves or their family to endure what innocent people on both sides of this conflict have had to endure. The occupation must stop. We will never change the mind of people who are biased to either side, but what we can do is educate other people who might not know the truth and give them the opportunity to have all the facts.

  131. Judo, you’re morally bankrupt. It’s obvious that no matter what the circumstances are, you will take one side (Israel’s) and stick to it. What is sad is that most Israelis don’t even do that. In fact, it is only American supporters of Israel who staunchly support the IDF under any and all circumstances. I am willing to bet my life that if a video was released of an IDF soldier shooting an infant in the head you would elaborately (and quite illogically) point out that the infant somehow belligerently provoked the IDF soldier into doing it.
    You fail at recognizing the basic principles Amnesty is behind, and that is human rights for all. Not just for Israelis, but for all humans. Of course, people like you do not believe that Palestinians are humans because you are fundamentally racist and void of any humanity, however, if one were take an objective look at the situation in the illegally-occupied territories, you would come up with the same conclusion as Amnesty International.
    Unfortunately, you are beyond reason, sympathy or compassion. You are nothing more than an apologist for one of the most conspicuously powerful and influential nations in the world. The fact that if anyone were to criticize Israel in the United States then they are smeared by the so-called Lobby is suspect in its own right.
    But what do you care, right? You’re morally bankrupt. You have no soul, nor do you have an ounce of shame. You “defend” Israel at all costs, not because you think Israel is innocent, but because you are a racist bigot who is full of hate. There’s not much of a difference between you and a neo-Nazi, is there?

  132. Judo, you’re morally bankrupt. It’s obvious that no matter what the circumstances are, you will take one side (Israel’s) and stick to it. What is sad is that most Israelis don’t even do that. In fact, it is only American supporters of Israel who staunchly support the IDF under any and all circumstances. I am willing to bet my life that if a video was released of an IDF soldier shooting an infant in the head you would elaborately (and quite illogically) point out that the infant somehow belligerently provoked the IDF soldier into doing it.
    You fail at recognizing the basic principles Amnesty is behind, and that is human rights for all. Not just for Israelis, but for all humans. Of course, people like you do not believe that Palestinians are humans because you are fundamentally racist and void of any humanity, however, if one were take an objective look at the situation in the illegally-occupied territories, you would come up with the same conclusion as Amnesty International.
    Unfortunately, you are beyond reason, sympathy or compassion. You are nothing more than an apologist for one of the most conspicuously powerful and influential nations in the world. The fact that if anyone were to criticize Israel in the United States then they are smeared by the so-called Lobby is suspect in its own right.
    But what do you care, right? You’re morally bankrupt. You have no soul, nor do you have an ounce of shame. You “defend” Israel at all costs, not because you think Israel is innocent, but because you are a racist bigot who is full of hate. There’s not much of a difference between you and a neo-Nazi, is there?

  133. I would like to respond but since Edie has been heavily censoring me and deleting my posts which comply with the terms of use for this blog, so I do not have a snowballs chance in hell of this getting published.

    Amnesty International now proudly stands for the suppression of free speech. This kind of makes sense since Amnesty International is so totally one sided in its naked prejudice against Israel and is now so completely propagandizing on the side of the worst human rights abusers on earth, namely Syria, Iran, Hezbolla and Hamas, that now Amnesty is adopting these countries methods of suppression of free speech right here in this blog.

    I am sure if Edie only could she would have me arrested and sent to Evin Prison in Tehran and tortured to death for disagreeing with her extremist pro-Hamas worldview, just like has already really happened to so many Iranian bloggers in the country which is the main backer of the Hamas regime Edie supports so strongly..

  134. I would like to respond but since Edie has been heavily censoring me and deleting my posts which comply with the terms of use for this blog, so I do not have a snowballs chance in hell of this getting published.

    Amnesty International now proudly stands for the suppression of free speech. This kind of makes sense since Amnesty International is so totally one sided in its naked prejudice against Israel and is now so completely propagandizing on the side of the worst human rights abusers on earth, namely Syria, Iran, Hezbolla and Hamas, that now Amnesty is adopting these countries methods of suppression of free speech right here in this blog.

    I am sure if Edie only could she would have me arrested and sent to Evin Prison in Tehran and tortured to death for disagreeing with her extremist pro-Hamas worldview, just like has already really happened to so many Iranian bloggers in the country which is the main backer of the Hamas regime Edie supports so strongly..

  135. Background on Judo's comments: Some of Judo's posts have been abusive towards other commenters, much like his last one, but they have been published because this is an open forum and these are his opinions. When he used foul language, a public post asking that commenters show respect for each others' opinions and not become abusive was published hoping he would take the hint.

    Out of his substantial number of postings, we were forced to delete one in which he called another commenter a very foul name, which will not be tolerated in this forum.

    Judo – as always, you are free to share your opinions and arguments in this forum as AI strongly upholds and believes in the right of everyone to voice their opinion. Lines must be drawn when 'over the top' attacks are made on other parties or language becomes too abusive.

    I personally hope you continue to comment and share your opinion. I just wish you would present facts and arguments and less insults and derogatory comments towards others that hold different opinions than you.

    And please don't attribute beliefs to others that you construe out of thin air. I have never said I support any political party or system and this is irrelevant anyway. I do believe – and it is AI's position – that all parties to a conflict must respect human rights and be held accountable if they fail to do so. This must be done for state actors, such as Saudi Arabia, Syria, Israel, Egypt as well as non-state actors, such as Hezbollah and Hamas involved in conflicts when warranted.

  136. Judo,

    So being angered because an American was harmed by an IDF soldier makes one "pro-Hamas?"

    Under what circumstances can Amnesty defend human rights?

  137. Background on Judo’s comments: Some of Judo’s posts have been abusive towards other commenters, much like his last one, but they have been published because this is an open forum and these are his opinions. When he used foul language, a public post asking that commenters show respect for each others’ opinions and not become abusive was published hoping he would take the hint.

    Out of his substantial number of postings, we were forced to delete one in which he called another commenter a very foul name, which will not be tolerated in this forum.

    Judo – as always, you are free to share your opinions and arguments in this forum as AI strongly upholds and believes in the right of everyone to voice their opinion. Lines must be drawn when ‘over the top’ attacks are made on other parties or language becomes too abusive.

    I personally hope you continue to comment and share your opinion. I just wish you would present facts and arguments and less insults and derogatory comments towards others that hold different opinions than you.

    And please don’t attribute beliefs to others that you construe out of thin air. I have never said I support any political party or system and this is irrelevant anyway. I do believe – and it is AI’s position – that all parties to a conflict must respect human rights and be held accountable if they fail to do so. This must be done for state actors, such as Saudi Arabia, Syria, Israel, Egypt as well as non-state actors, such as Hezbollah and Hamas involved in conflicts when warranted.

  138. Salem,
    I don't think that Judo can or will answer your question any more than he (I am assuming Judo is a he) can or will answer my earlier question about what the Palestinians can do to end the occupation and stop the theft of their lands.

    It seems he believes that in the Middle East only Jewish Israelis are entitled to human rights and that by criticizing Israel's terrible abuse of Palestinian human rights AI is being unfair even while, at the same time, AI criticizes Hamas and Hezbollah. But criticize Israel? No way. To Judo, Israel must be above criticism.

    To Judo, and to far too many others, no matter what Israel does to the Palestinians is just fine and no one has the right to criticize the Zionist state no matter how horrible are the deeds.

    This is truly sick.

  139. Judo,

    So being angered because an American was harmed by an IDF soldier makes one “pro-Hamas?”

    Under what circumstances can Amnesty defend human rights?

  140. Freedom of speech…………….lol. Sometimes freedom of speech can be amusing. It shows one's integrity, intelligence or lack of. To the owner of the site, thank you for allowing both sides of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict to be discussed in an open and respectful way.

    We are no bigger than our words and when someone becomes defensive enough to not be able to communicate in an effective way then it just shows me the level of their mentality.

  141. Salem,
    I don’t think that Judo can or will answer your question any more than he (I am assuming Judo is a he) can or will answer my earlier question about what the Palestinians can do to end the occupation and stop the theft of their lands.

    It seems he believes that in the Middle East only Jewish Israelis are entitled to human rights and that by criticizing Israel’s terrible abuse of Palestinian human rights AI is being unfair even while, at the same time, AI criticizes Hamas and Hezbollah. But criticize Israel? No way. To Judo, Israel must be above criticism.

    To Judo, and to far too many others, no matter what Israel does to the Palestinians is just fine and no one has the right to criticize the Zionist state no matter how horrible are the deeds.

    This is truly sick.

  142. Jan,

    That's what's so scary about the Palistinian situation. You can attack Palestinians all day and night and nobody in the mainstream media will say a word. Even Palestinians condem acts of violence. But for far too many supporters of Israel, nothing is questionable. They need to wake up and realize that the world isn't so black and white. But, by then it'll be too late like the Native American situation…

    If Israel wants any peace then the best route to go at this point is to at least pretend to care about people. That's what the US and NATO are doing in Afgan/Iraq to some degree. So why can't Israel?

  143. Because they think the world owes them everything and because they are still playing the victim card even though they have become the victimizers.

    This, of course, does not apply to all Israelis, but to far too many.

    What I don't understand is how the Jews who came to Palestine to displace the Arabs who had lived on the land for generations thought that they could live in peace. Maybe if they had not come with the idea of displacing the Palestinians and had tried to build a bi-national state with equal rights for all, it might have worked.

    Meanwhile I don't see why I, as a Jew born in the U.S., should be allowed to live in Israel while my Palestinian friend, born in Jerusalem, cannot go back to the land of her birth and claim the home from which she and her family were driven in 1967. Something is rotten here.

  144. Freedom of speech…………….lol. Sometimes freedom of speech can be amusing. It shows one’s integrity, intelligence or lack of. To the owner of the site, thank you for allowing both sides of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict to be discussed in an open and respectful way.

    We are no bigger than our words and when someone becomes defensive enough to not be able to communicate in an effective way then it just shows me the level of their mentality.

  145. Jan,

    That’s what’s so scary about the Palistinian situation. You can attack Palestinians all day and night and nobody in the mainstream media will say a word. Even Palestinians condem acts of violence. But for far too many supporters of Israel, nothing is questionable. They need to wake up and realize that the world isn’t so black and white. But, by then it’ll be too late like the Native American situation…

    If Israel wants any peace then the best route to go at this point is to at least pretend to care about people. That’s what the US and NATO are doing in Afgan/Iraq to some degree. So why can’t Israel?

  146. Because they think the world owes them everything and because they are still playing the victim card even though they have become the victimizers.

    This, of course, does not apply to all Israelis, but to far too many.

    What I don’t understand is how the Jews who came to Palestine to displace the Arabs who had lived on the land for generations thought that they could live in peace. Maybe if they had not come with the idea of displacing the Palestinians and had tried to build a bi-national state with equal rights for all, it might have worked.

    Meanwhile I don’t see why I, as a Jew born in the U.S., should be allowed to live in Israel while my Palestinian friend, born in Jerusalem, cannot go back to the land of her birth and claim the home from which she and her family were driven in 1967. Something is rotten here.

  147. It's quite sad. Judo came on here to push their agendas and carefully neglect the basic human aspect of the whole thing. It's as if there's some sort of double-standard, not that Judo would ever admit to that.

    As I said, people like Judo are seriously morally-bankrupt. It's almost sociopathic, in a way. Quite scary, really.

    You don't oppress a people and expect them not to protest in return. That's just crazy…

  148. Salem, you are absolutely right but in the case of Israel, it is more than obvious that Judo believes that the Palestinians should either leave the lands on which they have lived for far more generations than the vast number of Israeli Jews or that they should just bow down to their oppressors.

    I don't believe that Judo thinks that Palestinians are human and, like everyone else, deserve human rights and the right not to be oppressed or ethnically cleansed.

    And that is the main problem with much of Zionism.

  149. Jan,

    That was my point exactly, that people like Judo do not believe Palestinians are humans and that they do not deserve ethical treatment. People like Judo are, as I said in one of my earlier posts here, inherently racist, whether they admit it or not.

    As a Palestinian-American, I am so much more sympathetic to what happened to the Native Americans during the last 4 centuries. It is not only callous, but also very inhumane to think that a group of inhabitants should be forced to leave and have their homes destroyed in front of them to accommodate a few.

    The world is an ironic place. I don’t know if Judo is Jewish or not, but if they aren’t (I will suppose that they aren’t, because usually right-wing conservative Christians support Israel with that kind of disregard for human life) then about 100 years ago they would have been the ones who hated, attacked and helped oppress the Jews. Yet, they now support Israelis because they hope for some cosmic war of sorts where everyone gets saved and dies. Irrational thoughts for irrational people. They use war and pit people against each other all to fulfill some sort of prophecy they support. Scary, huh?

  150. Salem,
    I don't know if Judo is Jewish, Christian or pagan. I only know that his attitude toward the oppressed Palestinians is inhuman and that he is afraid to answer any questions I or you have directed to him.

    If I had to guess, however, my guess would be that he is probably a Jewish supporter of Israel who, unlike a growing number of Jews, refuses to take off his blinders and to acknowledge what our people did to your people who, I believe, became Hitler's final victims.

  151. It’s quite sad. Judo came on here to push their agendas and carefully neglect the basic human aspect of the whole thing. It’s as if there’s some sort of double-standard, not that Judo would ever admit to that.

    As I said, people like Judo are seriously morally-bankrupt. It’s almost sociopathic, in a way. Quite scary, really.

    You don’t oppress a people and expect them not to protest in return. That’s just crazy…

  152. You said it best when you said the Palestinians became Hitler's final victoms. WWII and the terrible events that took place gave a generation of people the justification they needed to oppress other people. The truth is, the strong will always take advantage of the weak…

  153. Salem, you are absolutely right but in the case of Israel, it is more than obvious that Judo believes that the Palestinians should either leave the lands on which they have lived for far more generations than the vast number of Israeli Jews or that they should just bow down to their oppressors.

    I don’t believe that Judo thinks that Palestinians are human and, like everyone else, deserve human rights and the right not to be oppressed or ethnically cleansed.

    And that is the main problem with much of Zionism.

  154. Jan,

    That was my point exactly, that people like Judo do not believe Palestinians are humans and that they do not deserve ethical treatment. People like Judo are, as I said in one of my earlier posts here, inherently racist, whether they admit it or not.

    As a Palestinian-American, I am so much more sympathetic to what happened to the Native Americans during the last 4 centuries. It is not only callous, but also very inhumane to think that a group of inhabitants should be forced to leave and have their homes destroyed in front of them to accommodate a few.

    The world is an ironic place. I don’t know if Judo is Jewish or not, but if they aren’t (I will suppose that they aren’t, because usually right-wing conservative Christians support Israel with that kind of disregard for human life) then about 100 years ago they would have been the ones who hated, attacked and helped oppress the Jews. Yet, they now support Israelis because they hope for some cosmic war of sorts where everyone gets saved and dies. Irrational thoughts for irrational people. They use war and pit people against each other all to fulfill some sort of prophecy they support. Scary, huh?

  155. Salem,
    I don’t know if Judo is Jewish, Christian or pagan. I only know that his attitude toward the oppressed Palestinians is inhuman and that he is afraid to answer any questions I or you have directed to him.

    If I had to guess, however, my guess would be that he is probably a Jewish supporter of Israel who, unlike a growing number of Jews, refuses to take off his blinders and to acknowledge what our people did to your people who, I believe, became Hitler’s final victims.

  156. You said it best when you said the Palestinians became Hitler’s final victoms. WWII and the terrible events that took place gave a generation of people the justification they needed to oppress other people. The truth is, the strong will always take advantage of the weak…

  157. Im reading all this comments.
    I will like to make a quit point. Israel is using the bible for war same as muslim.
    2: israel soldier are out of they country into another, braking intenational law.
    If a mexican soldier pass over to the USA.crowd will threw rocks.

    Look at what happend with Jerusalem? Israel when to war for it. what will happend if catholic use that same
    excuses as Israel. Or better christianity. Jerusalem is where Jesus was born is our land.

  158. Im reading all this comments.
    I will like to make a quit point. Israel is using the bible for war same as muslim.
    2: israel soldier are out of they country into another, braking intenational law.
    If a mexican soldier pass over to the USA.crowd will threw rocks.

    Look at what happend with Jerusalem? Israel when to war for it. what will happend if catholic use that same
    excuses as Israel. Or better christianity. Jerusalem is where Jesus was born is our land.