Proving that there truly is no prerequisite for intelligence in pageant winners, Miss Universe either just revealed her deep ignorance of global issues or her utter lack of humanity. Either way, the situation is not good. She is the only person (that I am aware of) who has been appointed to represent our universe, so it’s a little embarrassing.
In case you missed it, Miss Universe, Dayana Mendoza and Miss USA, Crystle Steward recently enjoyed a little vacation… at Guantanamo Bay. Unfortunately, I’m serious. In her blog on missuniverse.com, Dayana raved about her new favorite Caribbean getaway: “we had a wonderful time, this truly was a memorable trip… it was a loooot of fun!” To the rest of the world, Guantanamo represents a gross departure from the rule of law, torture, hell on earth, and a human rights crisis born from a legal black hole. But not to these two ladies who rose to fame by strutting their stuff in bikinis and high heels.
Yesterday, the folks at the Miss Universe Pageant replaced Dayana’s insightful post with an “explanation” for her actions, but there’s no reason you all should be deprived of the full post:
This week, Guantánamo!!! It was an incredible experience.
We arrived in Gitmo on Friday and stared going around the town, everybody knew Crystle and I were coming so the first thing we did was attend a big lunch and then we visited one of the bars they have in the base. We talked about Gitmo and what is was like living there. The next days we had a wonderful time, this truly was a memorable trip! We hung out with the guys from the East Coast and they showed us the boat inside and out, how they work and what they do, we took a ride around the land and it was a loooot of fun!
We also met the Military dogs, and they did a very nice demonstration of their skills. All the guys from the Army were amazing with us.
We visited the Detainees camps and we saw the jails, where they shower, how the recreate themselves with movies, classes of art, books. It was very interesting.
We took a ride with the Marines around the land to see the division of Gitmo and Cuba while they were informed us with a little bit of history.
The water in Guantánamo Bay is soooo beautiful! It was unbelievable, we were able to enjoy it for at least an hour. We went to the glass beach, and realized the name of it comes from the little pieces of broken glass from hundred of years ago. It is pretty to see all the colors shining with the sun. That day we met a beautiful lady named Rebeca who does wonders with the glasses from the beach. She creates jewelry with it and of course I bought a necklace from her that will remind me of Guantánamo Bay 🙂
I didn’t want to leave, it was such a relaxing place, so calm and beautiful.
At least someone’s happy to have been at Guantanamo Bay.
I've been there as well.
It really is nice. I wish I could go back for another tour. The detainees who don't consistently throw feces and urine on guards, headbutt or bite every chance they get enjoy it as well — truth be told MANY never want to go home. I'm not making that up. I really wish the world knew the truth about what is going on down there. The military guards and interrogators are among the most professional Soldiers I have ever served with. The garbage stories coming out of that place are the biggest pile of crap you could ever imagine. But, it will close anyway and we'll see what the Commander-In-Chief decides to do with the detainees.
I believe Ms. USA and Ms. Universe were invited by the USO. I am still in contact with some of the Soldiers serving down there, and both the men and women enjoyed meeting these two bright, beautiful, and ambitious women.
Her post may be full of typos and poor grammar, but English is not her native language. Give her a break. She enjoyed the tour and wanted to share her experience.
I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance, these two women are much more then you give them credit for.
As far as GITMO goes, becareful what you choose to believe. It may or may not have been a rough place at the start of the (formerly known as) war on terror — and due to "image" it might be in the best interest of our Nation to close it and find a new secure location for the detainees (formerly known as enemy combatants). Thanks to the ICRC and improvements in guidance and direction the place has evolved over the last several years. In at least the last 4 or 5 there is no "gross departure from the rule of law, torture, hell on earth, and a human rights crisis" and nothing any American should be ashamed of.
But, believe who you are going to believe and whatever "unbiased" reports you want. I've served there and seen the whole place with my own two eyes.
Dear GI Joe – Bully for you having been a glorified prison guard. i guess the detainees do get a bit miffed being water-boarded [yes u do that dont u] so no wonder they get a tad narky at lock-down time. Goes with the job eh?
BTW have u actually done any active service buddy? aside from gitmo being a human rights disgrace too the world as was the fabricated Bush "War On Terror" Weapons of Mass Destruction origins of the offensive..the fact IS Guantanamo Bay operates outside of the law and this is a deliberate and appalling tactic by the US – but then thats legal crap and ur just a good ol'grunt doing his job. Keep up the great work – I wouldn't want to have seen what your eyes have seen.. or what you have done. Yours – an ashamed American.
Peace be with you Angry Aussie.
I didn't serve as a prison guard…but you have your mind made up. AND NO… U.S. Service Members don't waterboard anybody.
You have your mind made up, that's ok…I'm not even going to waste my time trying to educate you.
Just enjoy your freedom and your terror-free nation and have a good day.
By the way, I have met and served with several fine Australian Military Officers in Afghanistan. I have faith they are a more accurate representation of your fine Country then you seem to be. And I won't judge the entire membership of a fine group of amnesty internation people (whom I agree or disagree with) with one bad apple.
Thanks for the personal attacks—while not knowing a thing about me. Keep jumping to conclusions, keep drinking the koolaid and keep believing garbage.
I forgot also to thank you — your Country has been an incredibly ally in Afghanistan and it was my priviledge to serve with your countrymen! I'm not being sarcastic, but sincere.
Check out the website and add our new Vice President Joe Biden to your list of hated U.S. Politicians. He has recently discussed intel reports that suggest al-qaeda is targeting australia. We'll continue to do all we can to prevent that from ever happening. Your welcome.
G'day and No-Worries Mate!
God Bless the USA terror-free since 9-11-2001 and Australia terror-free forever
MSG U.S. Army Says:
I've read Begg's biography (a man held in very high integrity within my own community) and various interviews with former detainees and I'd say your picture of "Gitmo" is unequivocal nonsense, even more offensive than the twaddle peddled by Miss Universe. Moreover, in my experience of campaigning on the Net, I'd say you're probably a twisted fantasist who has probably never been near an army base (due to psychiatric restraining order). Allegedly.
Here are some facts about the Miss Universe Organization taken from their website and Wikipedia.
1. The titleholders of the Miss Universe Organization personify the combination of beauty and intelligence that defines the 21st Century.
2. From 1960 to 1990, the Miss Universe Creed was read at each pageant:
"We, the young women of the universe, believe people everywhere are seeking peace, tolerance and mutual understanding. We pledge to spread this message in every way we can, wherever we go."
On this basis, what on earth was Miss Universe thinking when she wrote her blog? She may be young but the Miss Universe title has bestowed upon her a great deal of responsibility and her blog statement was ignorant, insensitive and inappropriate. It makes her sound like she's been on some other planet since 9/11!
I take no issue with the fact she went to the Guantanamo Naval Base as there is a long tradition of entertainers, celebrities and 'personalities' visiting troops to boost morale but Guantanamo is much more then just a naval base. It's been controversial since its' inception because of the way it came into existence, and most recently, it has been universally condemned for the systematic and illegal human rights violations that have taken place there.
Where was the peace, tolerance, mutual understanding, beauty and intelligence in Miss U's blog entry?
Yakoub-
I joined the U.S. Army in 1991 and will go over 18 years of service in July of this year. I have served at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii; Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Meade, Maryland; Macdill AFB, Florida; Fort Belvoir, Virginia; Wiesbaden, Germany; and now Arlington, Virginia. I have served a 1 year deployment in Afghanistan and a 9 month temporary tour at Guantanamo.
But…discredit me and refuse to believe the truth if you wish. Attached is from a former deputy commander who served at GITMO the same time I was there.
Whatever comrade…continue to demonize the U.S. Military and GITMO all you want. Peace be with you,
A Day In The Life Of A Guantanamo Guard
By Brig. Gen. Gregory Zanetti
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba – Their average age is 23. Most are on their first military assignment. They wake up at 0430, clean up, throw on a fresh uniform and are standing in formation at 0500. They silently file on to a bus that takes them to the camps. They get off the bus and again stand in formation as the First Sergeant barks out the orders for the day.
They move into the camps and do the requisite shift change duties. They take their posts at 0600. They then "walk the blocks," placing their eyes on their assigned detainees every three minutes for 12 hours. They walk eight to 11 miles during their shift.
At 1800 they get back on the bus, go back to their rooms and change into their exercise clothes. After a short formation, they do at least one hour of PT (physical training). They then clean up, grab a quick dinner, and fall into bed.
And so it goes, four days on, two days off.
While that may be the schedule, it does not tell the full story of a guard's day at Guantanamo Bay. To do that requires an understanding of something called the Battle Update Brief, better known as the BUB. The reason the word battle is used is because the detainees see the camps as an extension of the battlefield.
So do the guards.
The BUB is a daily briefing. It takes place in a room that is way too small, with no windows, and occasionally smells bad. There is a u-shaped table where the staff sits along the sides. At the end of the table sit the Joint Task Force Commander and Deputy Commander along with the Camp Commander and the Command Sergeant Major. One by one the cell block Navy Chiefs and Army Sergeants stand up and give a very clinical re-cap of the previous 24 hours. The detainees are referred to by number and their picture flashes on a screen as they are referenced.
What follows is a typical morning report at the BUB. Real names and real detainee numbers are not used. The term "rec" is short for recreation.
"Good morning sir, Chief Simmons Camp 6. We have 112 assigned, 112 present. Last night detainee 765 requested onions and parsley on his salad and requested to see the camp commander regarding his request. 844 wants a better detainee newsletter and 632 has requested a Bowflex machine because he says he is not getting enough of an upper body work out.
"We had 3 significant activities last night: 601 balled up feces and threw it at the guard hitting him in the chest saying next time he would hit him in the mouth. Next, as 155 was being taken to rec, he bit a guard on the arm until it bled. Detainee was not allowed rec and had comfort items removed. When asked why he did it, 155 just laughed. The guard was sent to medical where he is being evaluated. Finally, 767 yelled at female guard saying, 'I am going to rape you. I am going to rape you. And when I get out of here I am going to kill you and your family.' Sir, barring any questions, that concludes my report."
Many may believe the above BUB report is exaggerated or hyperbole. It is not. It could have just as easily been a detainee demanding a lighter gray shirt because the dark gray shirt "hurts his gall bladder." Or a detainee smearing feces on the walls of his cell. The guards refer to these detainees as "painters" or "poo-cassos."
What occurs daily inside the wire is a bizarre mixture of the dangerous, the disgusting, and the absurd. And, despite urban legends and misperceptions, any mistreatment or abuse that goes on inside the camps is that of detainee-on-guard, not the reverse.
Here is the aftermath of the BUB.
Detainee 632 did not get his Bowflex machine. The guard who was bitten is fine. We are working on the parsley and onions request, but not too hard. The feces battles never end. In fact, the latest detainee tactic is to grow their fingernails long, put feces underneath the nails and then try to scratch a guard's face.
Meanwhile, I happen to know the female guard who was verbally abused.
Coincidentally we both went to Valley High in Albuquerque, N.M., albeit about 30 years apart. Still, we are both Vikings.
After the briefing, I saw this young soldier and said, "Hey Viking, I heard you had quite a night last night … are you OK?" She said, "Yes sir, I'm fine."
I looked at her with some skepticism to see if what she was saying were true. What I saw in her eyes surprised me, but shouldn't have. She really was fine. That detainee's comments did not bother her in the least.
She is more than he will ever be and she is not alone. Rest assured if the guards at GTMO are any indication, the generation that is now coming of age will do its duty; they will defend our nation with courage, honor, and integrity. So don't elevate the detainees to sainthood and don't talk to me about unprofessional behavior, mistreatment or abuse at GTMO, because, frankly, I am more than a little sick of it.
Brig. Gen. Gregory Zanetti is deputy commander of the Joint Task Force-GTMO.
Guantanamo Is a Model Prison (Really)
By MARK H. BUZBY
June 4, 2008
There is much talk in the media, in our capital and elsewhere about the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I have paid close attention to this dialogue, and after a year in command, it is clear that there are two Guantanamos: the one that exists in popular culture, and the one most discover when they actually see conditions there.
We house enemy combatants in one of several facilities according to their compliance with camp rules. Highly compliant detainees, approximately 20% of the population, live in Camp 4. Here they enjoy a communal, barracks-style environment, with movie nights, classes in Pashtu, Arabic and English, shared meals and prayers, and up to 12 hours of recreation per day.
Many of the enemy combatants, however, fail to comply with established rules. Offenses often include head-butting, kicking, biting and splashing young soldiers and sailors with feces and urine "cocktails."
These detainees are housed in Camps 5 and 6 – modern, climate-controlled facilities modeled after existing U.S. prison facilities in the Midwest.
They get a minimum of two, soon to be three, hours of outdoor recreation per day adjacent to three to five other detainees. And they are held in a block of single-occupancy cells where they communicate with other detainees, guards, medical staff, library assistants and mail delivery personnel. Prayers are led five times a day by a detainee-appointed Imam. Each cell contains an arrow that points to Mecca.
All detainees receive three-meals per day, a 4,000-calorie diet selected from six different menus that meet the halal cultural dietary requirements, and which provide for special needs such as low sodium, vegetarian or diabetic. We provide comfort items including sheets and bedding, uniforms, shoes, prayer beads, prayer rugs, toiletries and bottled water. Each detainee is issued a Quran in Arabic and one in his native language. An ever-expanding, 5,000 volume library is available for a weekly choice of reading material.
Detainees sent and received more than 27,000 pieces of mail last year.
In addition to humanitarian phone calls, which have long been permitted, we allow annual phone calls to family members. Last year, more than 1,200 attorney visits were conducted. Suggestions that detainees are being held "incommunicado" are simply not true.
Medical-care standards afforded to detainees are the same that my troopers receive. Access to treatment is 24/7, with a detainee-to-medical-staff ratio of three-to-one that far exceeds Federal Bureau of Prison standards, and is frankly better than what most Americans enjoy.
Joint Task Force doctors have performed more than 370 surgeries, including restorative eye procedures, and a recent back surgery that restored movement and avoided possible paralysis for a detainee. Shortly after, that detainee sent me a note saying "Thank you, I have been wrong about Americans."
Our mental health facility, staffed by a variety of mental health-care professionals, includes a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Approximately 15% of our detainees are seen for such issues on a regular basis, about half the average experienced in the U.S. prison population.
We enjoy a very positive relationship with the International Committee of the Red Cross. Its professionals have access to all detainees and facilities, and they provide us with useful and supportive confidential comments and suggestions – which have helped in furthering the development of our detention programs.
An important part of the Guantanamo story routinely underreported by many in the media – but readily apparent to most who visit – is the dedication and professionalism exhibited every single day by the more than 2,200 soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen and civilians who provide for the safe and humane care and custody of very dangerous men.
Regardless of what international opinion says, my troopers perform their mission honorably, professionally and to a level that would make any American proud. I had the very great privilege of leading these sons and daughters of America; that is the Guantanamo I know.
Rear Adm. Buzby was commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo from May
2007 until last week.
I’ve been there as well.
It really is nice. I wish I could go back for another tour. The detainees who don’t consistently throw feces and urine on guards, headbutt or bite every chance they get enjoy it as well — truth be told MANY never want to go home. I’m not making that up. I really wish the world knew the truth about what is going on down there. The military guards and interrogators are among the most professional Soldiers I have ever served with. The garbage stories coming out of that place are the biggest pile of crap you could ever imagine. But, it will close anyway and we’ll see what the Commander-In-Chief decides to do with the detainees.
I believe Ms. USA and Ms. Universe were invited by the USO. I am still in contact with some of the Soldiers serving down there, and both the men and women enjoyed meeting these two bright, beautiful, and ambitious women.
Her post may be full of typos and poor grammar, but English is not her native language. Give her a break. She enjoyed the tour and wanted to share her experience.
I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance, these two women are much more then you give them credit for.
As far as GITMO goes, becareful what you choose to believe. It may or may not have been a rough place at the start of the (formerly known as) war on terror — and due to “image” it might be in the best interest of our Nation to close it and find a new secure location for the detainees (formerly known as enemy combatants). Thanks to the ICRC and improvements in guidance and direction the place has evolved over the last several years. In at least the last 4 or 5 there is no “gross departure from the rule of law, torture, hell on earth, and a human rights crisis” and nothing any American should be ashamed of.
But, believe who you are going to believe and whatever “unbiased” reports you want. I’ve served there and seen the whole place with my own two eyes.
Dear GI Joe – Bully for you having been a glorified prison guard. i guess the detainees do get a bit miffed being water-boarded [yes u do that dont u] so no wonder they get a tad narky at lock-down time. Goes with the job eh?
BTW have u actually done any active service buddy? aside from gitmo being a human rights disgrace too the world as was the fabricated Bush “War On Terror” Weapons of Mass Destruction origins of the offensive..the fact IS Guantanamo Bay operates outside of the law and this is a deliberate and appalling tactic by the US – but then thats legal crap and ur just a good ol’grunt doing his job. Keep up the great work – I wouldn’t want to have seen what your eyes have seen.. or what you have done. Yours – an ashamed American.
Peace be with you Angry Aussie.
I didn’t serve as a prison guard…but you have your mind made up. AND NO… U.S. Service Members don’t waterboard anybody.
You have your mind made up, that’s ok…I’m not even going to waste my time trying to educate you.
Just enjoy your freedom and your terror-free nation and have a good day.
By the way, I have met and served with several fine Australian Military Officers in Afghanistan. I have faith they are a more accurate representation of your fine Country then you seem to be. And I won’t judge the entire membership of a fine group of amnesty internation people (whom I agree or disagree with) with one bad apple.
Thanks for the personal attacks—while not knowing a thing about me. Keep jumping to conclusions, keep drinking the koolaid and keep believing garbage.
I forgot also to thank you — your Country has been an incredibly ally in Afghanistan and it was my priviledge to serve with your countrymen! I’m not being sarcastic, but sincere.
Check out the website and add our new Vice President Joe Biden to your list of hated U.S. Politicians. He has recently discussed intel reports that suggest al-qaeda is targeting australia. We’ll continue to do all we can to prevent that from ever happening. Your welcome.
G’day and No-Worries Mate!
God Bless the USA terror-free since 9-11-2001 and Australia terror-free forever
MSG U.S. Army Says:
I’ve read Begg’s biography (a man held in very high integrity within my own community) and various interviews with former detainees and I’d say your picture of “Gitmo” is unequivocal nonsense, even more offensive than the twaddle peddled by Miss Universe. Moreover, in my experience of campaigning on the Net, I’d say you’re probably a twisted fantasist who has probably never been near an army base (due to psychiatric restraining order). Allegedly.
Here are some facts about the Miss Universe Organization taken from their website and Wikipedia.
1. The titleholders of the Miss Universe Organization personify the combination of beauty and intelligence that defines the 21st Century.
2. From 1960 to 1990, the Miss Universe Creed was read at each pageant:
“We, the young women of the universe, believe people everywhere are seeking peace, tolerance and mutual understanding. We pledge to spread this message in every way we can, wherever we go.”
On this basis, what on earth was Miss Universe thinking when she wrote her blog? She may be young but the Miss Universe title has bestowed upon her a great deal of responsibility and her blog statement was ignorant, insensitive and inappropriate. It makes her sound like she’s been on some other planet since 9/11!
I take no issue with the fact she went to the Guantanamo Naval Base as there is a long tradition of entertainers, celebrities and ‘personalities’ visiting troops to boost morale but Guantanamo is much more then just a naval base. It’s been controversial since its’ inception because of the way it came into existence, and most recently, it has been universally condemned for the systematic and illegal human rights violations that have taken place there.
Where was the peace, tolerance, mutual understanding, beauty and intelligence in Miss U’s blog entry?
Yakoub-
I joined the U.S. Army in 1991 and will go over 18 years of service in July of this year. I have served at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii; Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Meade, Maryland; Macdill AFB, Florida; Fort Belvoir, Virginia; Wiesbaden, Germany; and now Arlington, Virginia. I have served a 1 year deployment in Afghanistan and a 9 month temporary tour at Guantanamo.
But…discredit me and refuse to believe the truth if you wish. Attached is from a former deputy commander who served at GITMO the same time I was there.
Whatever comrade…continue to demonize the U.S. Military and GITMO all you want. Peace be with you,
A Day In The Life Of A Guantanamo Guard
By Brig. Gen. Gregory Zanetti
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba – Their average age is 23. Most are on their first military assignment. They wake up at 0430, clean up, throw on a fresh uniform and are standing in formation at 0500. They silently file on to a bus that takes them to the camps. They get off the bus and again stand in formation as the First Sergeant barks out the orders for the day.
They move into the camps and do the requisite shift change duties. They take their posts at 0600. They then “walk the blocks,” placing their eyes on their assigned detainees every three minutes for 12 hours. They walk eight to 11 miles during their shift.
At 1800 they get back on the bus, go back to their rooms and change into their exercise clothes. After a short formation, they do at least one hour of PT (physical training). They then clean up, grab a quick dinner, and fall into bed.
And so it goes, four days on, two days off.
While that may be the schedule, it does not tell the full story of a guard’s day at Guantanamo Bay. To do that requires an understanding of something called the Battle Update Brief, better known as the BUB. The reason the word battle is used is because the detainees see the camps as an extension of the battlefield.
So do the guards.
The BUB is a daily briefing. It takes place in a room that is way too small, with no windows, and occasionally smells bad. There is a u-shaped table where the staff sits along the sides. At the end of the table sit the Joint Task Force Commander and Deputy Commander along with the Camp Commander and the Command Sergeant Major. One by one the cell block Navy Chiefs and Army Sergeants stand up and give a very clinical re-cap of the previous 24 hours. The detainees are referred to by number and their picture flashes on a screen as they are referenced.
What follows is a typical morning report at the BUB. Real names and real detainee numbers are not used. The term “rec” is short for recreation.
“Good morning sir, Chief Simmons Camp 6. We have 112 assigned, 112 present. Last night detainee 765 requested onions and parsley on his salad and requested to see the camp commander regarding his request. 844 wants a better detainee newsletter and 632 has requested a Bowflex machine because he says he is not getting enough of an upper body work out.
“We had 3 significant activities last night: 601 balled up feces and threw it at the guard hitting him in the chest saying next time he would hit him in the mouth. Next, as 155 was being taken to rec, he bit a guard on the arm until it bled. Detainee was not allowed rec and had comfort items removed. When asked why he did it, 155 just laughed. The guard was sent to medical where he is being evaluated. Finally, 767 yelled at female guard saying, ‘I am going to rape you. I am going to rape you. And when I get out of here I am going to kill you and your family.’ Sir, barring any questions, that concludes my report.”
Many may believe the above BUB report is exaggerated or hyperbole. It is not. It could have just as easily been a detainee demanding a lighter gray shirt because the dark gray shirt “hurts his gall bladder.” Or a detainee smearing feces on the walls of his cell. The guards refer to these detainees as “painters” or “poo-cassos.”
What occurs daily inside the wire is a bizarre mixture of the dangerous, the disgusting, and the absurd. And, despite urban legends and misperceptions, any mistreatment or abuse that goes on inside the camps is that of detainee-on-guard, not the reverse.
Here is the aftermath of the BUB.
Detainee 632 did not get his Bowflex machine. The guard who was bitten is fine. We are working on the parsley and onions request, but not too hard. The feces battles never end. In fact, the latest detainee tactic is to grow their fingernails long, put feces underneath the nails and then try to scratch a guard’s face.
Meanwhile, I happen to know the female guard who was verbally abused.
Coincidentally we both went to Valley High in Albuquerque, N.M., albeit about 30 years apart. Still, we are both Vikings.
After the briefing, I saw this young soldier and said, “Hey Viking, I heard you had quite a night last night … are you OK?” She said, “Yes sir, I’m fine.”
I looked at her with some skepticism to see if what she was saying were true. What I saw in her eyes surprised me, but shouldn’t have. She really was fine. That detainee’s comments did not bother her in the least.
She is more than he will ever be and she is not alone. Rest assured if the guards at GTMO are any indication, the generation that is now coming of age will do its duty; they will defend our nation with courage, honor, and integrity. So don’t elevate the detainees to sainthood and don’t talk to me about unprofessional behavior, mistreatment or abuse at GTMO, because, frankly, I am more than a little sick of it.
Brig. Gen. Gregory Zanetti is deputy commander of the Joint Task Force-GTMO.
Guantanamo Is a Model Prison (Really)
By MARK H. BUZBY
June 4, 2008
There is much talk in the media, in our capital and elsewhere about the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I have paid close attention to this dialogue, and after a year in command, it is clear that there are two Guantanamos: the one that exists in popular culture, and the one most discover when they actually see conditions there.
We house enemy combatants in one of several facilities according to their compliance with camp rules. Highly compliant detainees, approximately 20% of the population, live in Camp 4. Here they enjoy a communal, barracks-style environment, with movie nights, classes in Pashtu, Arabic and English, shared meals and prayers, and up to 12 hours of recreation per day.
Many of the enemy combatants, however, fail to comply with established rules. Offenses often include head-butting, kicking, biting and splashing young soldiers and sailors with feces and urine “cocktails.”
These detainees are housed in Camps 5 and 6 – modern, climate-controlled facilities modeled after existing U.S. prison facilities in the Midwest.
They get a minimum of two, soon to be three, hours of outdoor recreation per day adjacent to three to five other detainees. And they are held in a block of single-occupancy cells where they communicate with other detainees, guards, medical staff, library assistants and mail delivery personnel. Prayers are led five times a day by a detainee-appointed Imam. Each cell contains an arrow that points to Mecca.
All detainees receive three-meals per day, a 4,000-calorie diet selected from six different menus that meet the halal cultural dietary requirements, and which provide for special needs such as low sodium, vegetarian or diabetic. We provide comfort items including sheets and bedding, uniforms, shoes, prayer beads, prayer rugs, toiletries and bottled water. Each detainee is issued a Quran in Arabic and one in his native language. An ever-expanding, 5,000 volume library is available for a weekly choice of reading material.
Detainees sent and received more than 27,000 pieces of mail last year.
In addition to humanitarian phone calls, which have long been permitted, we allow annual phone calls to family members. Last year, more than 1,200 attorney visits were conducted. Suggestions that detainees are being held “incommunicado” are simply not true.
Medical-care standards afforded to detainees are the same that my troopers receive. Access to treatment is 24/7, with a detainee-to-medical-staff ratio of three-to-one that far exceeds Federal Bureau of Prison standards, and is frankly better than what most Americans enjoy.
Joint Task Force doctors have performed more than 370 surgeries, including restorative eye procedures, and a recent back surgery that restored movement and avoided possible paralysis for a detainee. Shortly after, that detainee sent me a note saying “Thank you, I have been wrong about Americans.”
Our mental health facility, staffed by a variety of mental health-care professionals, includes a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Approximately 15% of our detainees are seen for such issues on a regular basis, about half the average experienced in the U.S. prison population.
We enjoy a very positive relationship with the International Committee of the Red Cross. Its professionals have access to all detainees and facilities, and they provide us with useful and supportive confidential comments and suggestions – which have helped in furthering the development of our detention programs.
An important part of the Guantanamo story routinely underreported by many in the media – but readily apparent to most who visit – is the dedication and professionalism exhibited every single day by the more than 2,200 soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen and civilians who provide for the safe and humane care and custody of very dangerous men.
Regardless of what international opinion says, my troopers perform their mission honorably, professionally and to a level that would make any American proud. I had the very great privilege of leading these sons and daughters of America; that is the Guantanamo I know.
Rear Adm. Buzby was commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo from May
2007 until last week.
Well, based on the above comments, you can believe what you choose to. As for Miss Universe's comments, what did you expect? She's on a publicity tour for a very family-friendly beauty pageant. Did you really expect her to muscle her way in there with a camera crew and catch footage of malnourished, beaten detainees?
Exactly Joe, I didn't expect Ms. Universe to muscle her way in there with a camera crew and catch footage of malnourished, beaten detainees. For one thing that wouldn't be very family-friendly. For another, the detainees are fed and are not beaten.
It's a tad convenient that MSG USA has that uplifting experience himself, but then can only recommend that the rest of us believe him, or (allegedly irrationally) believe what we want. Because almost always, people who'd actually like to make their own judgment can't do so–Gitmo is closed to independent investigation.
But Sgt., have you seen this report listed below, either the one by Mark Danner in the NYRB or the International Red Cross report he reviews? Because that's the sort of independent investigation you pay lip service to, and it negates your conclusion AND your recommendation.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530
Your observation that US Army personnel don't waterboard anybody, if true, is beside the point: the CIA has tortured people, and so have our allies around the world, and the US Army guards at Gitmo are complicit in the results, whether the prisoners involved are guilty of acts against the United States or (in the vast majority of Guantanamo cases, by all the independent evidence) not. So while the grunts are following military orders to uphold national policy, I'd hardly describe that as characterizing the slogan "honor bound to defend freedom," in virtually any way you'd care to defend that final word.
There's also this recent report on military training at Gitmo, where virtually the entire US MILITARY, not CIA, manual was copied from Chinese Communist interrogation procedures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.htm…
Or is the New York Times another example of something that looks like an independent investigation but really isn't–apparently only because they drew a conclusion opposite to the patriotic one?
That's what really makes America great: the fact that in the end no one has to take your word on this subject. Thank you for your service to your country, but not for enabling actions by the national leadership that count as violations of international law, violations of agreements that the USA signed dozens of years ago to uphold the right and, not incidentally, protect future American service personnel like you serving their country in overseas assignments who might be captured and maltreated.
It's a tad convenient that MSG USA has that uplifting experience himself, but then can only recommend that the rest of us believe him, or (allegedly irrationally) believe what we want. Because almost always, people who'd actually like to make their own judgment can't do so–Gitmo is closed to independent investigation.
But Sgt., have you seen this report listed below, either the one by Mark Danner in the NYRB or the International Red Cross report he reviews? Because that's the sort of independent investigation you pay lip service to, and it negates your conclusion AND your recommendation.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530
Your observation that US Army personnel don't waterboard anybody, if true, is beside the point: the CIA has tortured people, and so have our allies around the world, and the US Army guards at Gitmo are complicit in the results, whether the prisoners involved are guilty of acts against the United States or (in the vast majority of Guantanamo cases, by all the independent evidence) not. So while the grunts are following military orders to uphold national policy, I'd hardly describe that as characterizing the slogan "honor bound to defend freedom," in virtually any way you'd care to defend that final word.
There's also this recent report on military training at Gitmo, where virtually the entire US MILITARY, not CIA, manual was copied from Chinese Communist interrogation procedures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.htm…
Or is the New York Times another example of something that looks like an independent investigation but really isn't–apparently only because they drew a conclusion opposite to the patriotic one?
That's what really makes America great: the fact that in the end no one has to take your word on this subject. Thank you for your service to your country, but not for enabling actions by the national leadership that count as violations of international law, violations of agreements that the USA signed dozens of years ago to uphold the right and, not incidentally, protect future American service personnel like you serving their country in overseas assignments who might be captured and maltreated.
It's a tad convenient that MSG USA has that uplifting experience himself, but then can only recommend that the rest of us believe him, or (allegedly irrationally) believe what we want. Because almost always, people who'd actually like to make their own judgment can't do so–Gitmo is closed to independent investigation.
But Sgt., have you seen this report listed below, either the one by Mark Danner in the NYRB or the International Red Cross report he reviews? Because that's the sort of independent investigation you pay lip service to, and it negates your conclusion AND your recommendation.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530
Your observation that US Army personnel don't waterboard anybody, if true, is beside the point: the CIA has tortured people, and so have our allies around the world, and the US Army guards at Gitmo are complicit in the results, whether the prisoners involved are guilty of acts against the United States or (in the vast majority of Guantanamo cases, by all the independent evidence) not. So while the grunts are following military orders to uphold national policy, I'd hardly describe that as characterizing the slogan "honor bound to defend freedom," in virtually any way you'd care to defend that final word.
There's also this recent report on military training at Gitmo, where virtually the entire US MILITARY, not CIA, manual was copied from Chinese Communist interrogation procedures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.htm…
Or is the New York Times another example of something that looks like an independent investigation but really isn't–apparently only because they drew a conclusion opposite to the patriotic one?
That's what really makes America great: the fact that in the end no one has to take your word on this subject. Thank you for your service to your country, but not for enabling actions by the national leadership that count as violations of international law, violations of agreements that the USA signed dozens of years ago to uphold the right and, not incidentally, protect future American service personnel like you serving their country in overseas assignments who might be captured and maltreated.
Well, based on the above comments, you can believe what you choose to. As for Miss Universe’s comments, what did you expect? She’s on a publicity tour for a very family-friendly beauty pageant. Did you really expect her to muscle her way in there with a camera crew and catch footage of malnourished, beaten detainees?
Exactly Joe, I didn’t expect Ms. Universe to muscle her way in there with a camera crew and catch footage of malnourished, beaten detainees. For one thing that wouldn’t be very family-friendly. For another, the detainees are fed and are not beaten.
It’s a tad convenient that MSG USA has that uplifting experience himself, but then can only recommend that the rest of us believe him, or (allegedly irrationally) believe what we want. Because almost always, people who’d actually like to make their own judgment can’t do so–Gitmo is closed to independent investigation.
But Sgt., have you seen this report listed below, either the one by Mark Danner in the NYRB or the International Red Cross report he reviews? Because that’s the sort of independent investigation you pay lip service to, and it negates your conclusion AND your recommendation.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530
Your observation that US Army personnel don’t waterboard anybody, if true, is beside the point: the CIA has tortured people, and so have our allies around the world, and the US Army guards at Gitmo are complicit in the results, whether the prisoners involved are guilty of acts against the United States or (in the vast majority of Guantanamo cases, by all the independent evidence) not. So while the grunts are following military orders to uphold national policy, I’d hardly describe that as characterizing the slogan “honor bound to defend freedom,” in virtually any way you’d care to defend that final word.
There’s also this recent report on military training at Gitmo, where virtually the entire US MILITARY, not CIA, manual was copied from Chinese Communist interrogation procedures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22china%20inspired%20interrogations%22&st=cse
Or is the New York Times another example of something that looks like an independent investigation but really isn’t–apparently only because they drew a conclusion opposite to the patriotic one?
That’s what really makes America great: the fact that in the end no one has to take your word on this subject. Thank you for your service to your country, but not for enabling actions by the national leadership that count as violations of international law, violations of agreements that the USA signed dozens of years ago to uphold the right and, not incidentally, protect future American service personnel like you serving their country in overseas assignments who might be captured and maltreated.
Touche! It was published in the NY Times so it has to be 100% accurate.
BTW, what is my conclusion and recommendation you speak of?
I've read everything and have seen the studies. To include the inconvenient truth attached below:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/20/obamas-pent…
Enjoy your own googling and "independent research" and your own conclusions.
Choose to believe me or not. I no longer care. The radical-jihadist-terrorist-detainees-formerly known as enemy combatants are telling the truth, the Generals and Admirals are lying. Sure.
Enjoy your terror-free nation.
U.S.A. Terror Free Since 9-11-2001
Forgot to add this link, since the first is from clearly who many may refer to as a "right-wing nut".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…
Touche! It was published in the NY Times so it has to be 100% accurate.
BTW, what is my conclusion and recommendation you speak of?
I've read everything and have seen the studies. To include the inconvenient truth attached below:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/20/obamas-pent…
Enjoy your own googling and "independent research" and your own conclusions.
Choose to believe me or not. I no longer care. The radical-jihadist-terrorist-detainees-formerly known as enemy combatants are telling the truth, the Generals and Admirals are lying. Sure.
Enjoy your terror-free nation.
U.S.A. Terror Free Since 9-11-2001
Touche! It was published in the NY Times so it has to be 100% accurate.
BTW, what is my conclusion and recommendation you speak of?
I've read everything and have seen the studies. To include the inconvenient truth attached below:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/20/obamas-pent…
Enjoy your own googling and "independent research" and your own conclusions.
Choose to believe me or not. I no longer care. The radical-jihadist-terrorist-detainees-formerly known as enemy combatants are telling the truth, the Generals and Admirals are lying. Sure.
Enjoy your terror-free nation.
U.S.A. Terror Free Since 9-11-2001
Forgot to add this link, since the first is from clearly who many may refer to as a "right-wing nut".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…
Forgot to add this link, since the first is from clearly who many may refer to as a "right-wing nut".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…
Touche! It was published in the NY Times so it has to be 100% accurate.
BTW, what is my conclusion and recommendation you speak of?
I’ve read everything and have seen the studies. To include the inconvenient truth attached below:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/20/obamas-pentagon-review-gitmo-meets-the-standards-of-the-geneva-conventions/
Enjoy your own googling and “independent research” and your own conclusions.
Choose to believe me or not. I no longer care. The radical-jihadist-terrorist-detainees-formerly known as enemy combatants are telling the truth, the Generals and Admirals are lying. Sure.
Enjoy your terror-free nation.
U.S.A. Terror Free Since 9-11-2001
Forgot to add this link, since the first is from clearly who many may refer to as a “right-wing nut”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/20/AR2009022002191.html
I don't give a hang which American president sponsored the military report. I voted for Obama, but he doesn't have my unthinking support, anymore than I believe everything the New York Times writes. My point was, and is, here's an independent (defined here as, not sponsored by any government agency) investigation, the sort you recommend.
According to the "Geneva Convention relative to treatment of prisoners of war," UNHCR website (and text checked against three other websites, BTW), the agreement not only enjoins against killing, but against "violence to life and person" (article 3.1.a) and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment" (3.1.c).
Article 13 continues, "Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention." Nothing requires signatory parties to FORCE prisoners to care for their own health. The signing nations are however required both not to injure them and to offer such care. Virtually all prisoners will accept it. A few may reject it, perhaps for religious or ideological reasons. There's no reason to think the Geneva Conventions deprive prisoners of the ability to decide for themselves–unless you already think everyone on the other side has deprived themselves of such rights.
Article 14 says, in part: "Prisoners of war shall retain the full civil capacity which they enjoyed at the time of their capture." Presumably this includes low-level personal decisions such as whether to eat lunch today, as well as whether to accept medical treatment, whether to go on a hunger strike, and so on. The point is that prisoners remain people with basic rights to autonomy, even when their freedom to move about is restricted by their being captured.
An analogy to the bioethics literature: an elderly person who may not be competent to decide whether or not to enter a nursing home may have the ability to decide which doctor she trusts and wishes to consult, which wing of the home to live in, whether to have a vegetable or a fruit for dessert, etc. To say that some rights may not apply to a given individual does not entail that that that individual possesses no right to bodily integrity, say.
Article 15 says: "The Power detaining prisoners of war shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance and for the medical attention required by their state of health." It does not say prisoners are bound to accept it and can be forced to do so.
Article 17, in part: "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind." The main reason to force feed prisoners is to ensure that they remain alive to be interrogated. Thus the feeding is a species of coercion to secure information, and is prohibited.
It's true that Article 21 says in part, "Subject to the provisions of the present Convention relative to penal and disciplinary sanctions, prisoners of war may not be held in close confinement except where necessary to safeguard their health and then only during the continuation of the circumstances which make such confinement necessary." Again, this does not explicitly require forcing prisoners to submit to treatment that will save their lives, if the prisoner doesn't consent to it.
And when placed in the context of Article 22 (in part), the link to consent is greatly strengthened: "The Detaining Power shall assemble prisoners of war in camps or camp compounds according to their nationality, language and customs, provided that such prisoners shall not be separated from prisoners of war belonging to the armed forces with which they were serving at the time of their capture, except with their consent." That is, explicit provision is made for prisoners to waive certain of the Geneva rights.
I don’t give a hang which American president sponsored the military report. I voted for Obama, but he doesn’t have my unthinking support, anymore than I believe everything the New York Times writes. My point was, and is, here’s an independent (defined here as, not sponsored by any government agency) investigation, the sort you recommend.
According to the “Geneva Convention relative to treatment of prisoners of war,” UNHCR website (and text checked against three other websites, BTW), the agreement not only enjoins against killing, but against “violence to life and person” (article 3.1.a) and “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment” (3.1.c).
Article 13 continues, “Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention.” Nothing requires signatory parties to FORCE prisoners to care for their own health. The signing nations are however required both not to injure them and to offer such care. Virtually all prisoners will accept it. A few may reject it, perhaps for religious or ideological reasons. There’s no reason to think the Geneva Conventions deprive prisoners of the ability to decide for themselves–unless you already think everyone on the other side has deprived themselves of such rights.
Article 14 says, in part: “Prisoners of war shall retain the full civil capacity which they enjoyed at the time of their capture.” Presumably this includes low-level personal decisions such as whether to eat lunch today, as well as whether to accept medical treatment, whether to go on a hunger strike, and so on. The point is that prisoners remain people with basic rights to autonomy, even when their freedom to move about is restricted by their being captured.
An analogy to the bioethics literature: an elderly person who may not be competent to decide whether or not to enter a nursing home may have the ability to decide which doctor she trusts and wishes to consult, which wing of the home to live in, whether to have a vegetable or a fruit for dessert, etc. To say that some rights may not apply to a given individual does not entail that that that individual possesses no right to bodily integrity, say.
Article 15 says: “The Power detaining prisoners of war shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance and for the medical attention required by their state of health.” It does not say prisoners are bound to accept it and can be forced to do so.
Article 17, in part: “No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.” The main reason to force feed prisoners is to ensure that they remain alive to be interrogated. Thus the feeding is a species of coercion to secure information, and is prohibited.
It’s true that Article 21 says in part, “Subject to the provisions of the present Convention relative to penal and disciplinary sanctions, prisoners of war may not be held in close confinement except where necessary to safeguard their health and then only during the continuation of the circumstances which make such confinement necessary.” Again, this does not explicitly require forcing prisoners to submit to treatment that will save their lives, if the prisoner doesn’t consent to it.
And when placed in the context of Article 22 (in part), the link to consent is greatly strengthened: “The Detaining Power shall assemble prisoners of war in camps or camp compounds according to their nationality, language and customs, provided that such prisoners shall not be separated from prisoners of war belonging to the armed forces with which they were serving at the time of their capture, except with their consent.” That is, explicit provision is made for prisoners to waive certain of the Geneva rights.
MSG U.S. Army if you are still reading this, I have something to say to you. One thing you wrote really caught my eye. You said, "I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance"
Like there isn't enough about Guantanamo to be upset about. It has to be that Dalia is commenting because she is jealous of beautiful women who look good in bikinis? Great real. This says a lot about you and your ignorance and chauvanism. You are reinforcing the sexist and ignorant stereotypes that many people have about military people. Maybe you need to read this post and get off your high horse that a woman is upset about this situation (where there are 1 million things to be upset about, none of them having to do with beauty) because she is jealous. Wake up. Maybe reading this post will help: http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/spare-me-your-we…
MSG U.S. Army if you are still reading this, I have something to say to you. One thing you wrote really caught my eye. You said, "I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance"
Like there isn't enough about Guantanamo to be upset about. It has to be that Dalia is commenting because she is jealous of beautiful women who look good in bikinis? Great real. This says a lot about you and your ignorance and chauvanism. You are reinforcing the sexist and ignorant stereotypes that many people have about military people. Maybe you need to read this post and get off your high horse that a woman is upset about this situation (where there are 1 million things to be upset about, none of them having to do with beauty) because she is jealous. Wake up. Maybe reading this post will help: http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/spare-me-your-we…
MSG U.S. Army if you are still reading this, I have something to say to you. One thing you wrote really caught my eye. You said, "I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance"
Like there isn't enough about Guantanamo to be upset about. It has to be that Dalia is commenting because she is jealous of beautiful women who look good in bikinis? Great real. This says a lot about you and your ignorance and chauvanism. You are reinforcing the sexist and ignorant stereotypes that many people have about military people. Maybe you need to read this post and get off your high horse that a woman is upset about this situation (where there are 1 million things to be upset about, none of them having to do with beauty) because she is jealous. Wake up. Maybe reading this post will help: http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/spare-me-your-we…
MSG U.S. Army if you are still reading this, I have something to say to you. One thing you wrote really caught my eye. You said, “I understand part of your anger stems from the fact she is an attrative woman and in part judged by her beauty — yeah she looks good in a bikini. But besides being fit, attractive and taking pride in appearance”
Like there isn’t enough about Guantanamo to be upset about. It has to be that Dalia is commenting because she is jealous of beautiful women who look good in bikinis? Great real. This says a lot about you and your ignorance and chauvanism. You are reinforcing the sexist and ignorant stereotypes that many people have about military people. Maybe you need to read this post and get off your high horse that a woman is upset about this situation (where there are 1 million things to be upset about, none of them having to do with beauty) because she is jealous. Wake up. Maybe reading this post will help: http://blog.amnestyusa.org/women/spare-me-your-weight/
Cassandra-
I think there is a disconnect somewhere. My appologies for appearing ingnorant or chauvanistic. I was infact DEFENDING a woman (Ms. Universe) and not ATTACKING Ms. Dalia.
I read all these posts, to include the referenced "spare me your weight".
Dalia has no reason to be jealous and I never indicated that. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. Please allow me the opportunity to defend your labeling me "ignorant and chauvenistic".
I respect all women and Dalia's opinion. However, if there is enough about Guantanamo to be upset about…comments in the blog attacking Ms. Universe ie…"these two ladies who rose to fame by strutting their stuff in bikinis and high heels" "there truly is no prerequisite for intelligence in pageant winners". She clearly disagrees with Mr. Universe's perspective and blog…and instead of staying on GITMO subject…veers off subject to take digs at Ms. Universe. And Why? Because she isn't in step with popular cultures demonization of GITMO.
Dalia is guilty of exactly what she continues to preach against and I called her out on it. Those who don't share in her ideology (Ms. Universe, Women Conservative Talk Show Hosts, Meghan McCain) are all on her target.
I'm interested to know why there is not a peep when say….Governor Sarah Palin is portrayed in Eminem's video as a bodacious slut. It is unlikely that anyone on this website will be "outraged".
TAKE A HARD HONEST LOOK AT YOURSELF.
I'm wide awake and no high horse in sight…thank you.
Have a blessed day, enjoy your terror-free nation.
It's pretty en vogue to criticize a woman conservative talk show host for calling Meghan McCain fat BUT perfectly acceptable for another woman to label Ms. Universe as a "struttin' her stuff in a bikini" ditzy bimbo "proving that there truly is no prerequisite for intelligence in pageant winners". I'm sure had Ms. Universe described her tour as horrific and said "close GITMO now" she wouldn't have been scrutinized.
And Cassandra – I am the ignorant chauvanist?
I get it, hypocrites. You get real.
Cassandra-
I think there is a disconnect somewhere. My appologies for appearing ingnorant or chauvanistic. I was infact DEFENDING a woman (Ms. Universe) and not ATTACKING Ms. Dalia.
I read all these posts, to include the referenced “spare me your weight”.
Dalia has no reason to be jealous and I never indicated that. I’m sorry you interpreted it that way. Please allow me the opportunity to defend your labeling me “ignorant and chauvenistic”.
I respect all women and Dalia’s opinion. However, if there is enough about Guantanamo to be upset about…comments in the blog attacking Ms. Universe ie…”these two ladies who rose to fame by strutting their stuff in bikinis and high heels” “there truly is no prerequisite for intelligence in pageant winners”. She clearly disagrees with Mr. Universe’s perspective and blog…and instead of staying on GITMO subject…veers off subject to take digs at Ms. Universe. And Why? Because she isn’t in step with popular cultures demonization of GITMO.
Dalia is guilty of exactly what she continues to preach against and I called her out on it. Those who don’t share in her ideology (Ms. Universe, Women Conservative Talk Show Hosts, Meghan McCain) are all on her target.
I’m interested to know why there is not a peep when say….Governor Sarah Palin is portrayed in Eminem’s video as a bodacious slut. It is unlikely that anyone on this website will be “outraged”.
TAKE A HARD HONEST LOOK AT YOURSELF.
I’m wide awake and no high horse in sight…thank you.
Have a blessed day, enjoy your terror-free nation.
It’s pretty en vogue to criticize a woman conservative talk show host for calling Meghan McCain fat BUT perfectly acceptable for another woman to label Ms. Universe as a “struttin’ her stuff in a bikini” ditzy bimbo “proving that there truly is no prerequisite for intelligence in pageant winners”. I’m sure had Ms. Universe described her tour as horrific and said “close GITMO now” she wouldn’t have been scrutinized.
And Cassandra – I am the ignorant chauvanist?
I get it, hypocrites. You get real.
You started out nicely in your post and then you got nasty. It's like you worked yourself up. Look, I want to go back to your basic point. Did Miss Universe discover the cure for cancer when I wasn't looking? Yes, MSG Army Soldier, she did get to where she is because she wore a skimpy swim suit. No, she did not get that crown because she wrote a brilliant book. While it is an accomplishment, it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to look beautiful in a bathing suit and an evening gown. She is beautiful and that is why she was picked. So why are you so obsessed with saying that Miss Universe is so smart? Can you read what she wrote and think objectively-even for a minute? It just doesn't sound like someone with a whole lot of brains wrote that. (and I am really sorry to say this, but if you think that what she wrote makes her smart, then I am even more worried for you and for the state of our military. If we give people guns and weapons of mass destruction and let them use them in other countries, these people should be SMART. At minimum! on top of that, they should have good judgment. I'm sorry to say this, but if you can't admit that Miss Universe is no genius, then I don't think you get to say that you are, etiher. Either that or you must be a 17 yr old kid who is still in puberty and blinded by raging hormones.) Besides, anyone who is smart would know better than to say those things about a place that is so controversial. You are characterizing this all wrong. It is not like she had some kind of opinion that meshes with people who Dick Cheney who like guantanamo. It seems like she just had NO CLUE about the issues with guantanamo. There is no way that you can call someone who could not even figure that out, smart. It is not about her having the wrong opinion. It is about her being too stupid to know that this place is a hot bed of controversy. I am sorry, but she should be able to figure this much out.
You started out nicely in your post and then you got nasty. It’s like you worked yourself up. Look, I want to go back to your basic point. Did Miss Universe discover the cure for cancer when I wasn’t looking? Yes, MSG Army Soldier, she did get to where she is because she wore a skimpy swim suit. No, she did not get that crown because she wrote a brilliant book. While it is an accomplishment, it doesn’t take a whole lot of brains to look beautiful in a bathing suit and an evening gown. She is beautiful and that is why she was picked. So why are you so obsessed with saying that Miss Universe is so smart? Can you read what she wrote and think objectively-even for a minute? It just doesn’t sound like someone with a whole lot of brains wrote that. (and I am really sorry to say this, but if you think that what she wrote makes her smart, then I am even more worried for you and for the state of our military. If we give people guns and weapons of mass destruction and let them use them in other countries, these people should be SMART. At minimum! on top of that, they should have good judgment. I’m sorry to say this, but if you can’t admit that Miss Universe is no genius, then I don’t think you get to say that you are, etiher. Either that or you must be a 17 yr old kid who is still in puberty and blinded by raging hormones.) Besides, anyone who is smart would know better than to say those things about a place that is so controversial. You are characterizing this all wrong. It is not like she had some kind of opinion that meshes with people who Dick Cheney who like guantanamo. It seems like she just had NO CLUE about the issues with guantanamo. There is no way that you can call someone who could not even figure that out, smart. It is not about her having the wrong opinion. It is about her being too stupid to know that this place is a hot bed of controversy. I am sorry, but she should be able to figure this much out.
So what your saying bottomline – attacking a woman for what you perceive to be stupid is ok….mocking someone cause you think they are dumb YIPPEE. Commenting on someone being out-of-shape or overweight NO WAY. Understand loud and clear. Judging someone you don't know and whose 1st language IS NOT English — OK… but don't you dare talk about how overweight a person might be
Did I say Mr. Universe was a genius? Did I say she wrote a brilliant book or cured cancer?
She wrote about her trip (period). She is not speaking on behalf of A.I. or some other activist organization.
GITMO is a beautiful place…am I stupid to say that? You should see the beaches and the weather 365 days a year. The huge wild Iguana are an awesome sight. The BBQs and taking the fishing boats out on the water are awesome.
I'm well past my ragin' hormone stage But thanks for bringing that up!
I would just think before words start coming out of the mouth or off the keyboard. NOT passing judgement on your intellect, weight or appearance.
Just consider this: You can't scold and shake your pointed finger at one person for making comments about ones weight…and turn right back around and comment on ones intellect. If one is "fair game" they are all "fair game". If one is "out of line" they are both "out of line".
But what do I know? I'm certainly no genius, just a knuckles dragin' on the ground, caveman grunt, male chauvenist pig serving my country. Time to go live up to your expectations and perception of the military and torture people now…see ya'. Watch for me in the next GEICO Commercial ;-).
Believe what you want.
So what your saying bottomline – attacking a woman for what you perceive to be stupid is ok….mocking someone cause you think they are dumb YIPPEE. Commenting on someone being out-of-shape or overweight NO WAY. Understand loud and clear. Judging someone you don’t know and whose 1st language IS NOT English — OK… but don’t you dare talk about how overweight a person might be
Did I say Mr. Universe was a genius? Did I say she wrote a brilliant book or cured cancer?
She wrote about her trip (period). She is not speaking on behalf of A.I. or some other activist organization.
GITMO is a beautiful place…am I stupid to say that? You should see the beaches and the weather 365 days a year. The huge wild Iguana are an awesome sight. The BBQs and taking the fishing boats out on the water are awesome.
I’m well past my ragin’ hormone stage But thanks for bringing that up!
I would just think before words start coming out of the mouth or off the keyboard. NOT passing judgement on your intellect, weight or appearance.
Just consider this: You can’t scold and shake your pointed finger at one person for making comments about ones weight…and turn right back around and comment on ones intellect. If one is “fair game” they are all “fair game”. If one is “out of line” they are both “out of line”.
But what do I know? I’m certainly no genius, just a knuckles dragin’ on the ground, caveman grunt, male chauvenist pig serving my country. Time to go live up to your expectations and perception of the military and torture people now…see ya’. Watch for me in the next GEICO Commercial ;-).
Believe what you want.
Anyone out there willing to live in our country and enjoy OUR freedoms that OUR military provides with THEIR service to THIS country who decides based off of published (which we all know are always true…yeah right) should maybe think about joining our Armed Services to get a first hand look at what is really going on in these "horrible places" they think they know so much about…..since they have been there and seen what goes on themselves. Or maybe they should think about the fact that the guards they are accusing of these horrible crimes are someones HUSBAND, son, brother, or father (or for females- mother, sister, daughter, wife) and that if that was YOUR husband stationed there WITHOUT you, do you really think they would be capable of the things people are saying go on there? Yes, the prisons have had some problems in the beginning and that was for a lot of reasons (one of which was not enough people in the military to rotate deployments enough to give OUR soldiers a rest. So instead of sitting on YOUR rear end thinking you KNOW everything there is to know about the military and what THEY do day in and day out………GET UP AND JOIN and then I will listen to your comments because you might know something at that point. But my husband has been in for 10 years and he is a professional, loving, smart, hard working, determined, and honor seeking man. I KNOW (and yes that would be 100%) he is NOT capable of any of the insane things being accused on him and his co-workers. We didn't choose this duty station for him and the fact that we will be seperated for over a year. This is his job and it is what entails. What do you do for a living……????????????
Anyone out there willing to live in our country and enjoy OUR freedoms that OUR military provides with THEIR service to THIS country who decides based off of published (which we all know are always true…yeah right) should maybe think about joining our Armed Services to get a first hand look at what is really going on in these “horrible places” they think they know so much about…..since they have been there and seen what goes on themselves. Or maybe they should think about the fact that the guards they are accusing of these horrible crimes are someones HUSBAND, son, brother, or father (or for females- mother, sister, daughter, wife) and that if that was YOUR husband stationed there WITHOUT you, do you really think they would be capable of the things people are saying go on there? Yes, the prisons have had some problems in the beginning and that was for a lot of reasons (one of which was not enough people in the military to rotate deployments enough to give OUR soldiers a rest. So instead of sitting on YOUR rear end thinking you KNOW everything there is to know about the military and what THEY do day in and day out………GET UP AND JOIN and then I will listen to your comments because you might know something at that point. But my husband has been in for 10 years and he is a professional, loving, smart, hard working, determined, and honor seeking man. I KNOW (and yes that would be 100%) he is NOT capable of any of the insane things being accused on him and his co-workers. We didn’t choose this duty station for him and the fact that we will be seperated for over a year. This is his job and it is what entails. What do you do for a living……????????????
One of you speaks about a prisoner telling a female guard that he will rape her. She has less chance of being raped by a prisoner than by the soldiers she works with. A report this week said that 40% of the female soldiers in Iraq examined by physicians had been raped by the men they worked side by side with. Doesn't say alot about some of our soldiers does it? And how about the prisoners that were tortured and beaten even though the United States knew they were innocent? Gitmo may be a beautiful place to some but I bet it depends on which side of the fence you are on.
One of you speaks about a prisoner telling a female guard that he will rape her. She has less chance of being raped by a prisoner than by the soldiers she works with. A report this week said that 40% of the female soldiers in Iraq examined by physicians had been raped by the men they worked side by side with. Doesn’t say alot about some of our soldiers does it? And how about the prisoners that were tortured and beaten even though the United States knew they were innocent? Gitmo may be a beautiful place to some but I bet it depends on which side of the fence you are on.
Gina –
Please, Please, Please share your "source" or "report" suggesting 40% of female Soldiers in Iraq are raped by fellow Soldiers.
1. Detainees are well secured, thus virtually eliminating a prisoners opportunity/chance to rape a Soldier.
2. People joining the Army are from a pool of U.S. Citizens. Just as in Society, the U.S. Army has a share (though SMALLER then the general U.S. Population) of criminals. MOST do not slip through the cracks, (background checks, basic training, previous crimes or less severe crimes commmitted in-service) AND those responsible for these crimes (ie…rape) get slammed dunked under the UCMJ courts-martial UNLIKE civilian courts.
Your attempt to demonize the U.S. Military (as well you and/or this "report" labeling the Military a bunch of rapist) is shameful.
Enjoy your freedom and your terror-free nation.
I look forward to any response. That is some allegation.
Gina –
Please, Please, Please share your “source” or “report” suggesting 40% of female Soldiers in Iraq are raped by fellow Soldiers.
1. Detainees are well secured, thus virtually eliminating a prisoners opportunity/chance to rape a Soldier.
2. People joining the Army are from a pool of U.S. Citizens. Just as in Society, the U.S. Army has a share (though SMALLER then the general U.S. Population) of criminals. MOST do not slip through the cracks, (background checks, basic training, previous crimes or less severe crimes commmitted in-service) AND those responsible for these crimes (ie…rape) get slammed dunked under the UCMJ courts-martial UNLIKE civilian courts.
Your attempt to demonize the U.S. Military (as well you and/or this “report” labeling the Military a bunch of rapist) is shameful.
Enjoy your freedom and your terror-free nation.
I look forward to any response. That is some allegation.
I loved her and thought she was a good fit, anyone was better than miss california and her answer. what did you all think of that? geez. anyhow at least everyone looked beautiful, here are a ton of pics I wanted to share wtih you from last nights show: enjoY!
http://tinyurl.com/missusaphotos
I loved her and thought she was a good fit, anyone was better than miss california and her answer. what did you all think of that? geez. anyhow at least everyone looked beautiful, here are a ton of pics I wanted to share wtih you from last nights show: enjoY!
http://tinyurl.com/missusaphotos
I loved her and thought she was a good fit, anyone was better than miss california and her answer. what did you all think of that? geez. anyhow at least everyone looked beautiful, here are a ton of pics I wanted to share wtih you from last nights show: enjoY!
http://tinyurl.com/missusaphotos
I loved her and thought she was a good fit, anyone was better than miss california and her answer. what did you all think of that? geez. anyhow at least everyone looked beautiful, here are a ton of pics I wanted to share wtih you from last nights show: enjoY!
http://tinyurl.com/missusaphotos
Ms. California was asked her opinion and gave it.
If Mr. Perez Hilton can't handle the fact others may not agree with him on issues such as same-sex marriage, he shouldn't have asked the question.
Pushing political correctness aside and not just saying whatever the judges wanted to hear to win, she gave her opinion. Regardless of which side of the issue you are on, you have to give her credit for being honest.
Is the Ms. USA beauty pageant entertainment OR an extention of politics?
Thanks for the link.
Check out Miss California’s response to her question about same sex marriage by Perez Hilton. She defends her answer and her beliefs here. What do you think?! In an appearance on NBC's 'Today' show, Miss California, Carrie Prejean said she 'wouldn't change a thing.'
http://tinyurl.com/misscaliresponds
Ms. California was asked her opinion and gave it.
If Mr. Perez Hilton can’t handle the fact others may not agree with him on issues such as same-sex marriage, he shouldn’t have asked the question.
Pushing political correctness aside and not just saying whatever the judges wanted to hear to win, she gave her opinion. Regardless of which side of the issue you are on, you have to give her credit for being honest.
Is the Ms. USA beauty pageant entertainment OR an extention of politics?
Thanks for the link.
Check out Miss California’s response to her question about same sex marriage by Perez Hilton. She defends her answer and her beliefs here. What do you think?! In an appearance on NBC's 'Today' show, Miss California, Carrie Prejean said she 'wouldn't change a thing.'
http://tinyurl.com/misscaliresponds
Check out Miss California’s response to her question about same sex marriage by Perez Hilton. She defends her answer and her beliefs here. What do you think?! In an appearance on NBC's 'Today' show, Miss California, Carrie Prejean said she 'wouldn't change a thing.'
http://tinyurl.com/misscaliresponds
Check out Miss California’s response to her question about same sex marriage by Perez Hilton. She defends her answer and her beliefs here. What do you think?! In an appearance on NBC’s ‘Today’ show, Miss California, Carrie Prejean said she ‘wouldn’t change a thing.’
http://tinyurl.com/misscaliresponds
Hi, I don
Hi, I don