Palestinian Statehood Bid at UN and Its Implications

As you may have heard, Palestinian authorities have embarked on a major diplomatic effort to secure wider recognition of a Palestinian state and an upgraded status at the United Nations.  Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas recently submitted an application for full UN membership to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

Palestine currently has the status of an observer entity at the UN General Assembly, where it is represented by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).  An application for full membership is currently being considered by the UN Security Council Committee on Admission of New Members.  The UN Committee will issue its analysis of the historic Palestinian bid for statehood around mid-October.

There are differing viewpoints on the statehood bid. Raji Sourani, well respected human rights lawyer, former Amnesty Prisoner of Conscience and founder of the Palestinian Human Rights Center was on Democracy Now recently discussing the Palestinian bid and the issues surrounding it:

Amnesty International does not take a position on the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the question of whether Palestine is a state or what its borders should be, or on the current bid for recognition of Palestinian statehood and UN membership.  As a human rights organization, our concern is that any resolution, initiative or agreement fully respects the human rights of Palestinians and Israelis, including access to justice, truth and reparations.

The bid does, however, raise questions about Amnesty’s work in the region and how or if it will be affected. And whatever the UN decides will have important implications for human rights concerns in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT).

Amnesty recently issued a Q&A that addresses many of the most pressing and relevant questions.  The Q&A deals with questions like, “Will the bid for recognition of Palestinian statehood affect the legal standards applicable in the OPT, or Israel’s obligations as the occupying power (or have legal implications for the Palestinian Authority)?” and “How would the statehood bid affect efforts to pursue accountability for crimes under international law committed during the 2008-2009 conflict in Gaza and southern Israel, and what is Amnesty International calling for in this regard?”

Check out the Q&A and what you think are the human rights implications to the bid in the comments below.

AIUSA welcomes a lively and courteous discussion that follow our Community Guidelines. Comments are not pre-screened before they post but AIUSA reserves the right to remove any comments violating our guidelines.

48 thoughts on “Palestinian Statehood Bid at UN and Its Implications

  1. Time ripe for Palestine's resurrection.

    Been ripe for 60 autumns.

    Too little too late ?

    Even that "little" makes israel & israelis rush to man the Wall ….. & peer around for hosts materialized by accumulation of History's capital.

    Same History's most treacherous Great White Daddy, Obama … yes, White as all the rest….. runs out with the same Appeasement Policy…. to strangle the firstborn in the crib.

    Feel Time riper for a birth now.

    One State.

  2. 4 MILLION Palestinians enduring intolerable pain & oppression in the Occupied Territories.

    Half million settlers choking their windpipe, swallowing their lands lives destinies.

    Our duty …. to end this suffering NOW.

    America blocks all, scuttling the Rule of Law worldwide.

    We see Gaza … but throughout all Palestine are a MYRIAD Gazas.

    Gazafication is israel's policy of blockade / isolate / swallow throughout Occupied Territories, including Jerusalem, historic Palestine.

    One state or two …. ALL roads must be travelled same time to reach the goal.

  3. Time ripe for Palestine’s resurrection.

    Been ripe for 60 autumns.

    Too little too late ?

    Even that “little” makes israel & israelis rush to man the Wall ….. & peer around for hosts materialized by accumulation of History’s capital.

    Same History’s most treacherous Great White Daddy, Obama … yes, White as all the rest….. runs out with the same Appeasement Policy…. to strangle the firstborn in the crib.

    Feel Time riper for a birth now.

    One State.

  4. 4 MILLION Palestinians enduring intolerable pain & oppression in the Occupied Territories.

    Half million settlers choking their windpipe, swallowing their lands lives destinies.

    Our duty …. to end this suffering NOW.

    America blocks all, scuttling the Rule of Law worldwide.

    We see Gaza … but throughout all Palestine are a MYRIAD Gazas.

    Gazafication is israel’s policy of blockade / isolate / swallow throughout Occupied Territories, including Jerusalem, historic Palestine.

    One state or two …. ALL roads must be travelled same time to reach the goal.

  5. They bid for state but they support terror groups like the Hamas! and would like to have state with them Gilad Shalit is an Israeli and French national soldier who was captured from Israel on 25 June 2006 by Hamas in Gaza. A terror group. He has been held as a hostage More the 5 years in the Hamas basements. Human rights organizations have stated that the terms and conditions of Shalit's confinement are contrary to international humanitarian law. To date, the only contact between Shalit and the outside world since his capture has been three letters, an audio tape, and a DVD. Now tell me why do you quiet about this?!! Gilad Shalit entitled at least the same conditions as the Hamas prisoners in Israel get.Do'nt you think so? Please deliver the message to all your friends! Ask for Human rights!

  6. Ben – you do not say who your question is directed to, either A. Savage or to Amnesty International, but just fyi:

    Amnesty International does not take political sides, but works for respect for universal human rights for all individuals. Our work is based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    As far as prisoners and our work concerning prisoners – Amnesty has worked for the past 50 years on behalf of prisoners detained in countries around the globe. In regards to Israel/OPT/PA – we have raised concerns about the judicial process used for Palestinians living in the OPT (unfair trials), the use of administrative detention (detention without charge or trial), ill-treatment and torture of Palestinian prisoners detained by both Israeli forces and the Palestinian Authority, the condition of their confinement (prolonged and repetitive use of solitary confinement, difficulty or denial of family visits, etc …) as well as their use as political bargaining chips.

    Amnesty has also worked diligently on behalf of Gilad Shalit – the Israeli soldier captured by armed Palestinian groups. If you go to our country page(s) on Israel/OPT and the Palestinian Authority, you'll see actions on his behalf and if you go back through blogs I've written, you'll see that AIUSA has undertaken several actions and continue to take actions urging Hamas to oblige by their legal obligations to treat Gilad humanely. Amnesty is planning to deliver letters of hope written by our members and other activists when they go on their next mission to Gaza in the coming months.

    Amnesty will continue to hold those responsible to their obligations under the law whenever an individual's human rights are violated.

  7. They bid for state but they support terror groups like the Hamas! and would like to have state with them Gilad Shalit is an Israeli and French national soldier who was captured from Israel on 25 June 2006 by Hamas in Gaza. A terror group. He has been held as a hostage More the 5 years in the Hamas basements. Human rights organizations have stated that the terms and conditions of Shalit’s confinement are contrary to international humanitarian law. To date, the only contact between Shalit and the outside world since his capture has been three letters, an audio tape, and a DVD. Now tell me why do you quiet about this?!! Gilad Shalit entitled at least the same conditions as the Hamas prisoners in Israel get.Do’nt you think so? Please deliver the message to all your friends! Ask for Human rights!

  8. Ben – you do not say who your question is directed to, either A. Savage or to Amnesty International, but just fyi:

    Amnesty International does not take political sides, but works for respect for universal human rights for all individuals. Our work is based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    As far as prisoners and our work concerning prisoners – Amnesty has worked for the past 50 years on behalf of prisoners detained in countries around the globe. In regards to Israel/OPT/PA – we have raised concerns about the judicial process used for Palestinians living in the OPT (unfair trials), the use of administrative detention (detention without charge or trial), ill-treatment and torture of Palestinian prisoners detained by both Israeli forces and the Palestinian Authority, the condition of their confinement (prolonged and repetitive use of solitary confinement, difficulty or denial of family visits, etc …) as well as their use as political bargaining chips.

    Amnesty has also worked diligently on behalf of Gilad Shalit – the Israeli soldier captured by armed Palestinian groups. If you go to our country page(s) on Israel/OPT and the Palestinian Authority, you’ll see actions on his behalf and if you go back through blogs I’ve written, you’ll see that AIUSA has undertaken several actions and continue to take actions urging Hamas to oblige by their legal obligations to treat Gilad humanely. Amnesty is planning to deliver letters of hope written by our members and other activists when they go on their next mission to Gaza in the coming months.

    Amnesty will continue to hold those responsible to their obligations under the law whenever an individual’s human rights are violated.

  9. ………..First, as to historical statehood, facts show that Palestine was a state from the Mandate period onwards. Second, Palestine is being asked to meet criteria for statehood more extreme than those required by other states in the world. Third and closely related, these criteria do not take into account the effects of prolonged occupation. Fourth, Palestine has already been recognized as a state both explicitly and implicitly for several decades.

    John Quigley, The Statehood of Palestine.

  10. ………..First, as to historical statehood, facts show that Palestine was a state from the Mandate period onwards. Second, Palestine is being asked to meet criteria for statehood more extreme than those required by other states in the world. Third and closely related, these criteria do not take into account the effects of prolonged occupation. Fourth, Palestine has already been recognized as a state both explicitly and implicitly for several decades.

    John Quigley, The Statehood of Palestine.

  11. Ben, your comments are ridiculous and typical of the Zionist mentality. Why should the whole world suffer when the Zionists want to return to their suposedly ancestral homeland of almost 2000 years ago?
    Just because the Jewish people suffered heavily under the Nazis and the Holocaust is not a legitimate reason for invading and annexing a sovereign land. You also, like most whinging Zionists, forget(or ignorantly ignore)the fact that many other ethnic races have suffered greatly at the hands of despotic and ruthless regimes; look at the Hugenots in France, the Cathars, the Armenians, Kurds, the Congoese at the hands of the Belgians, the Algerians, Iraqis,Albanians,Libyans Bosnians and look at the Soviets who lost 25 million during WW2. This is what causes you problems with most of Goydom..the ultra self centeredness of the Zionist ideolgy.."Who gives a damn about the rest of the world…what about how we have suffered? and are still suffering from antisemitism..etc etc?" We, as a people create the type of reaction from those around us. If we were kinder and more accommodating to the moderates of the Palestinians, and respected their right to their own independent state, it would reduce the violent hardliner Arabs to shame and side lines..but we stupidly keep fomenting bad attitudes, like petrol on the flames of a fire. But then again, perhaps you are smarter than we give you credit for..the more you can frustrate the Palestinians, the more they will turn to violence, then you won't have to talk peace and make concessions..that's smart!

  12. Ben, your comments are ridiculous and typical of the Zionist mentality. Why should the whole world suffer when the Zionists want to return to their suposedly ancestral homeland of almost 2000 years ago?
    Just because the Jewish people suffered heavily under the Nazis and the Holocaust is not a legitimate reason for invading and annexing a sovereign land. You also, like most whinging Zionists, forget(or ignorantly ignore)the fact that many other ethnic races have suffered greatly at the hands of despotic and ruthless regimes; look at the Hugenots in France, the Cathars, the Armenians, Kurds, the Congoese at the hands of the Belgians, the Algerians, Iraqis,Albanians,Libyans Bosnians and look at the Soviets who lost 25 million during WW2. This is what causes you problems with most of Goydom..the ultra self centeredness of the Zionist ideolgy..”Who gives a damn about the rest of the world…what about how we have suffered? and are still suffering from antisemitism..etc etc?” We, as a people create the type of reaction from those around us. If we were kinder and more accommodating to the moderates of the Palestinians, and respected their right to their own independent state, it would reduce the violent hardliner Arabs to shame and side lines..but we stupidly keep fomenting bad attitudes, like petrol on the flames of a fire. But then again, perhaps you are smarter than we give you credit for..the more you can frustrate the Palestinians, the more they will turn to violence, then you won’t have to talk peace and make concessions..that’s smart!

  13. Dear Ms Kroener & Mr Fisher,

    Your quote & comments are interesting …. thought provoking.

    Thank you both.

    Agree with both your premises.

    Like you, am for a Palestinian state.

    But also awake to all possibilities.

  14. Netanyahu will try & nip the bud.

    Neither 2 states nor one state.

    Just no state for Palestinians.

    israeli mass movement's also nearsighted.

    Doesn't talk of the Occupation.

    Or the Occupied.

    The sufferers & those who feel the pain will have to make their stand.

  15. Dear Ms Kroener & Mr Fisher,

    Your quote & comments are interesting …. thought provoking.

    Thank you both.

    Agree with both your premises.

    Like you, am for a Palestinian state.

    But also awake to all possibilities.

  16. Netanyahu will try & nip the bud.

    Neither 2 states nor one state.

    Just no state for Palestinians.

    israeli mass movement’s also nearsighted.

    Doesn’t talk of the Occupation.

    Or the Occupied.

    The sufferers & those who feel the pain will have to make their stand.

  17. Edith

    I would like to know Amnesty's position on justice for the nearly 1000 innocent Israeli civilians who were murdered during the wave of over 100 Palestinian suicide bombings inside Israel during the 1990's.

    Such targets as pizza parlors full of Israeli children and ice cream shops packed with Israeli grandparents and babies were routinely targeted in these mass murders organized at the highest levels of the Hamas and Fatah leadership. Many of these Palestinian criminals continue to serve in leadership positions to this day.

    Amnesty repeatedly called these attacks deliberately targeting Israeli civilians "Crimes against Humanity".

    Once Palestine becomes an independent country, something I personally support, I assume Palestine will then join the International Criminal Court.

    Once Palestine signs the treaties and officially submits itself to the jurisdiction of the ICC, will Amnesty then demand "justice" for the innocent Israeli victims of Palestinian suicide bombings?

    By "justice" I mean arresting the Hamas and Fatah officials, especially including those many still today holding key Palestinian leadership positions, who were responsible at any level for authorizing, organizing and financing these illegal mass murders of innocent Israeli civilians, transferring them to the ICC in the Hague, and prosecuting them for mass murder.

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask this question.

  18. Edith

    I would like to know Amnesty’s position on justice for the nearly 1000 innocent Israeli civilians who were murdered during the wave of over 100 Palestinian suicide bombings inside Israel during the 1990′s.

    Such targets as pizza parlors full of Israeli children and ice cream shops packed with Israeli grandparents and babies were routinely targeted in these mass murders organized at the highest levels of the Hamas and Fatah leadership. Many of these Palestinian criminals continue to serve in leadership positions to this day.

    Amnesty repeatedly called these attacks deliberately targeting Israeli civilians “Crimes against Humanity”.

    Once Palestine becomes an independent country, something I personally support, I assume Palestine will then join the International Criminal Court.

    Once Palestine signs the treaties and officially submits itself to the jurisdiction of the ICC, will Amnesty then demand “justice” for the innocent Israeli victims of Palestinian suicide bombings?

    By “justice” I mean arresting the Hamas and Fatah officials, especially including those many still today holding key Palestinian leadership positions, who were responsible at any level for authorizing, organizing and financing these illegal mass murders of innocent Israeli civilians, transferring them to the ICC in the Hague, and prosecuting them for mass murder.

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask this question.

  19. Ahhh !

    Just as i'd been expecting !!

    israel's September date with danger ( a Palestinian state, my God ! ) has been warded off, & the UNIFORM donned hastily to man the Walls of the Jewish State can now be TAKEN OFF … TIME to pick up the pen again !

    Judonimh says he supports a Palestinian state !

    Just like Netanyahu says, & America !

    &, like theirs, his talk of a state STOPS RIGHT THERE !

    He doesn't talk of WHAT the Powers That Be … israel & america … can ACTUALLY DO to make this state a reality … which the defenseless Palestinians & US / isreal's own man Abbas are depending on these Powers to do !!

    Instead of CLEARING the way towards statehood, Judonimh, true to Zionist form, sets up a ROADBLOCK !

    He brings up the International Criminal Court … which has NOTHING to do with statehood !

    Of all the URGENT THINGS to do to bring a Palestinian state into being, you'd expect the issue of STOPPING JEWISH SETTLEMENTS in E Jerusalem & the West Bank to come up.

    But of course not … Judonimh wouldn't bring THAT up !

    That would be dealing with the ACTUAL & MOST VITAL PROBLEM !

    Judonimh doesn't talk of lifting the Gaza blockade, either, & normalizing relations.

    He doesn't talk of lifting the roadblocks or the myriad Gazafications israel has imposed on Palestinian communities everywhere in israel & the Occupied Territories !

    None of that !

    Instead, just so the talk doesn't head in those directions …. he talks, of all things, of the ICC !

    He kills 2 birds with one stone, you see.

    He DISAPPEARS the REAL problems, & simultaneously REVIVES the image of the Palestinian as suicide bomber.

    This image HAS NO PLACE in a discussion on statehood today …UNLESS you want to DERAIL the discussion !

    Judonimh talks of Palestine joining the International Criminal Court … which ISRAEL'S BACKER America ITSELF hasn't joined !!

    THIS is Judonimh's ONLY contribution to a discussion on how to make a state possible for Palestinians !!

    *********************

    Judonimh's nominal commitment to a Palestinian state is the SAME as Netanyahu's & america's .

    It's a FIG LEAF.

    It's a FIG LEAF they ALL use …. to COVERUP the CONTINUING STRIPPING of Palestine.

    This FIG LEAF they throw away outside the UN.

    Or outside of a polite text to Amnesty International.

    It's this convenient FIG LEAF that in reality DISABLES Palestine from EVER being a State… by giving a "CIVILIZED" cover to her final rape & strangulation, the theft of her last lands that could form the BASIS for the continuous territorial body NECESSARY to make a state.

    Like the Emperor's new clothes, everyone knows about this FIG LEAF waved at the naked Palestinians by the Zionists & america whenever it suits these Powers.

    The WHOLE World knows about that FIG LEAF.

    & that one FIG LEAF contributes to israel's increasing regional & global ISOLATION.

  20. Ahhh !

    Just as i’d been expecting !!

    israel’s September date with danger ( a Palestinian state, my God ! ) has been warded off, & the UNIFORM donned hastily to man the Walls of the Jewish State can now be TAKEN OFF … TIME to pick up the pen again !

    Judonimh says he supports a Palestinian state !

    Just like Netanyahu says, & America !

    &, like theirs, his talk of a state STOPS RIGHT THERE !

    He doesn’t talk of WHAT the Powers That Be … israel & america … can ACTUALLY DO to make this state a reality … which the defenseless Palestinians & US / isreal’s own man Abbas are depending on these Powers to do !!

    Instead of CLEARING the way towards statehood, Judonimh, true to Zionist form, sets up a ROADBLOCK !

    He brings up the International Criminal Court … which has NOTHING to do with statehood !

    Of all the URGENT THINGS to do to bring a Palestinian state into being, you’d expect the issue of STOPPING JEWISH SETTLEMENTS in E Jerusalem & the West Bank to come up.

    But of course not … Judonimh wouldn’t bring THAT up !

    That would be dealing with the ACTUAL & MOST VITAL PROBLEM !

    Judonimh doesn’t talk of lifting the Gaza blockade, either, & normalizing relations.

    He doesn’t talk of lifting the roadblocks or the myriad Gazafications israel has imposed on Palestinian communities everywhere in israel & the Occupied Territories !

    None of that !

    Instead, just so the talk doesn’t head in those directions …. he talks, of all things, of the ICC !

    He kills 2 birds with one stone, you see.

    He DISAPPEARS the REAL problems, & simultaneously REVIVES the image of the Palestinian as suicide bomber.

    This image HAS NO PLACE in a discussion on statehood today …UNLESS you want to DERAIL the discussion !

    Judonimh talks of Palestine joining the International Criminal Court … which ISRAEL’S BACKER America ITSELF hasn’t joined !!

    THIS is Judonimh’s ONLY contribution to a discussion on how to make a state possible for Palestinians !!

    *********************

    Judonimh’s nominal commitment to a Palestinian state is the SAME as Netanyahu’s & america’s .

    It’s a FIG LEAF.

    It’s a FIG LEAF they ALL use …. to COVERUP the CONTINUING STRIPPING of Palestine.

    This FIG LEAF they throw away outside the UN.

    Or outside of a polite text to Amnesty International.

    It’s this convenient FIG LEAF that in reality DISABLES Palestine from EVER being a State… by giving a “CIVILIZED” cover to her final rape & strangulation, the theft of her last lands that could form the BASIS for the continuous territorial body NECESSARY to make a state.

    Like the Emperor’s new clothes, everyone knows about this FIG LEAF waved at the naked Palestinians by the Zionists & america whenever it suits these Powers.

    The WHOLE World knows about that FIG LEAF.

    & that one FIG LEAF contributes to israel’s increasing regional & global ISOLATION.

  21. Am against socalled "peace process".

    Why ?

    It's US / israel blueprint of DOMINATION imposed on Palestinians.

    It's deepened colonization process, not peace process.

    Turned Fatah into collaborators.

    Can Palestinian state based on its premises be "independent" ?

    Can't even be born !

    IF birthed, it wouldn't be independent, but retarded, handicapped.

    A Zionist proxy, satellite.

    Based on the FARTHER partition of last remaining 22 % of Palestine.

    Covering just a FIFTH of Palestine.

    A THIRD of Palestinian pop.

    Wouldn't provide for the 2/ 3 rds in exile.

    COULDN'T.

    Wouldn't accord with the People's RIGHT OF RETURN.

    Can't agree to such SELLOUT.

    Reclaim ALL PALESTINE.

    One secular, democratic Palestine.

    To accomodate FULL Palestinian destiny.

    ONE state.

    Where Palestinian + Jew can live.

    Equally.

    Without Jewish previlege.

    As citizens.

    Not as sects / groups / ethnicities / races.

    Won't come easy.

    Zionism / US block way.

    But for goal of TRUE & FULL JUSTICE, only way.

    ****** ******

    Zionism is dead end for israel.

    Since last year, Jewish ultraRightist settlers are burning mosques in West Bank, scrawling "Price tag" to indicate revenge, & desecrating Muslim / Christian graves.

    Secret israeli police Shin Bet does nothing.

    NO one prosecuted.

    Shin Bet report says terror groups are flourishing with full impunity in West Bank settlements.

    After Abbas asked for state, Bedouin mosque was burned by Rightists in northern Israel.

    These Bedu are loyal Israeli soldiers, but the burning of their sacred site made them erupt.

    Firing their guns, they clashed with security forces.

    Why the burning of mosques ?

    Apparently the Zionist UltraRight seeks to foment race + religious Armageddon.

    To forestall peace.

    Or a State in any state.

    For peace menaces the settlements & their growth.

  22. Edith:

    If you are still reading this blog I would very much appreciate a response to my question.

    You yourself mentioned Amnesty's ongoing commitment to seeking "Justice" in your blog above.

    Amnesty has declared the most serious form of human rights possible were committed by the Palestinians, namely the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians for random massacre and that these suicide bombings rose to the level of a "crime against humanity", a term derived from international law and the Geneva convention to be used only in the case of the absolute worst of the worst kinds of war crimes.

    So will the innocent civilian Israeli victims of these massacres, the women, the babies, the old holocaust survivors, all of whom were so cruelly murdered in bombings on the orders of many of the current leadership of Hamas and Fatah get justice?

    Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?

    Will amnesty demand international arrest warrants for these Palestinian mass murders of civilians be issued the moment Palestine joins the International Criminal Court, no matter even if these killers today serve, as they in fact do, as high officials and government ministers and military leaders in today's Palestinian government ?

    I think this is a fair question to ask and one that deserves an answer.
    Thank you for giving me the opportunity on your blog to pose this question.

  23. Oh my ever errant ways !

    Time to self critque / self correct.

    Should keep comments restricted to someone's ( in this case, Judonimh's ) text … what someone does outside his blogging's none of my business.

    Just critique the message.

  24. Why's Judonimh raising the issue of Israelis killed in suicide bombings NOW ?

    WHY now, of all times ?

    It's not accidental nor coincidental, the timing.

    Initially i thought it was to SIDETRACK the issue of Statehood.

    But it's a bit more complicated than that.

    Judonimh's MOTIVE in REPEATEDLY raising this particular issue is not to sidetrack.

    It's a FRONTAL ATTACK.

    His aim is to attack people in the "Palestinian government", he says.

    The key words are "the Palestinian government".

    You attack that government, you attack its demand for Statehood !

    It's the best way to slime up the demand itself.

    Note he doesn't mention "Hamas",whom he always used to SINGLE OUT before for his attacks.

    He never attacked "the Palestinian government" before.

    For that govenment was til now Israel's own OBEDIENT proxy & satellite.

    That "Palestinian government" was armed & trained by Israel & the US themselves.

    That "Palestinian government" til now COLLABORATED with Israel in crushing Palestinian resistance & protest in the West Bank.

    Til now Judonimh only attacked Hamas.

    He spoke respectfully of the PA's head Salam Fayad, referring to him by his full title.

    TIL NOW.

    MOMENT Abbas overstepped & went OFF THE RESERVATION, asking the UN for his State, he stopped being a "friendly" in Judonimh's eyes.

    He became a "hostile".

    He … in effect, his government ….. are now targets for Judonimh & apparently the WHOLE Jewish Zionist tribalist collective.

    Hell, Abbas is just an "Araboosh" ( or what's that word the Israelis use derogatorily for Arabs & Palestinians ) ?

    Even Zionist Judge Goldstone was kept off his own grandson's bar mitzvah after he issued his report, his life made a living hell, til he issued a recantation.

    So you can imagine what Abbas can expect now.

    & that's the Mystery of Judonimh's Volte Face on the PA.

    That's the reason for his raising his demand & phrasing it the way he does at this moment.

    Has Israel now lost its CLOSEST Palestinian ally ?

    Is Israel's ISOLATION even MORE COMPLETE than ever ??

  25. Am against socalled “peace process”.

    Why ?

    It’s US / israel blueprint of DOMINATION imposed on Palestinians.

    It’s deepened colonization process, not peace process.

    Turned Fatah into collaborators.

    Can Palestinian state based on its premises be “independent” ?

    Can’t even be born !

    IF birthed, it wouldn’t be independent, but retarded, handicapped.

    A Zionist proxy, satellite.

    Based on the FARTHER partition of last remaining 22 % of Palestine.

    Covering just a FIFTH of Palestine.

    A THIRD of Palestinian pop.

    Wouldn’t provide for the 2/ 3 rds in exile.

    COULDN’T.

    Wouldn’t accord with the People’s RIGHT OF RETURN.

    Can’t agree to such SELLOUT.

    Reclaim ALL PALESTINE.

    One secular, democratic Palestine.

    To accomodate FULL Palestinian destiny.

    ONE state.

    Where Palestinian + Jew can live.

    Equally.

    Without Jewish previlege.

    As citizens.

    Not as sects / groups / ethnicities / races.

    Won’t come easy.

    Zionism / US block way.

    But for goal of TRUE & FULL JUSTICE, only way.

    ****** ******

    Zionism is dead end for israel.

    Since last year, Jewish ultraRightist settlers are burning mosques in West Bank, scrawling “Price tag” to indicate revenge, & desecrating Muslim / Christian graves.

    Secret israeli police Shin Bet does nothing.

    NO one prosecuted.

    Shin Bet report says terror groups are flourishing with full impunity in West Bank settlements.

    After Abbas asked for state, Bedouin mosque was burned by Rightists in northern Israel.

    These Bedu are loyal Israeli soldiers, but the burning of their sacred site made them erupt.

    Firing their guns, they clashed with security forces.

    Why the burning of mosques ?

    Apparently the Zionist UltraRight seeks to foment race + religious Armageddon.

    To forestall peace.

    Or a State in any state.

    For peace menaces the settlements & their growth.

  26. Edith:

    If you are still reading this blog I would very much appreciate a response to my question.

    You yourself mentioned Amnesty’s ongoing commitment to seeking “Justice” in your blog above.

    Amnesty has declared the most serious form of human rights possible were committed by the Palestinians, namely the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians for random massacre and that these suicide bombings rose to the level of a “crime against humanity”, a term derived from international law and the Geneva convention to be used only in the case of the absolute worst of the worst kinds of war crimes.

    So will the innocent civilian Israeli victims of these massacres, the women, the babies, the old holocaust survivors, all of whom were so cruelly murdered in bombings on the orders of many of the current leadership of Hamas and Fatah get justice?

    Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?

    Will amnesty demand international arrest warrants for these Palestinian mass murders of civilians be issued the moment Palestine joins the International Criminal Court, no matter even if these killers today serve, as they in fact do, as high officials and government ministers and military leaders in today’s Palestinian government ?

    I think this is a fair question to ask and one that deserves an answer.
    Thank you for giving me the opportunity on your blog to pose this question.

  27. Oh my ever errant ways !

    Time to self critque / self correct.

    Should keep comments restricted to someone’s ( in this case, Judonimh’s ) text … what someone does outside his blogging’s none of my business.

    Just critique the message.

  28. Why’s Judonimh raising the issue of Israelis killed in suicide bombings NOW ?

    WHY now, of all times ?

    It’s not accidental nor coincidental, the timing.

    Initially i thought it was to SIDETRACK the issue of Statehood.

    But it’s a bit more complicated than that.

    Judonimh’s MOTIVE in REPEATEDLY raising this particular issue is not to sidetrack.

    It’s a FRONTAL ATTACK.

    His aim is to attack people in the “Palestinian government”, he says.

    The key words are “the Palestinian government”.

    You attack that government, you attack its demand for Statehood !

    It’s the best way to slime up the demand itself.

    Note he doesn’t mention “Hamas”,whom he always used to SINGLE OUT before for his attacks.

    He never attacked “the Palestinian government” before.

    For that govenment was til now Israel’s own OBEDIENT proxy & satellite.

    That “Palestinian government” was armed & trained by Israel & the US themselves.

    That “Palestinian government” til now COLLABORATED with Israel in crushing Palestinian resistance & protest in the West Bank.

    Til now Judonimh only attacked Hamas.

    He spoke respectfully of the PA’s head Salam Fayad, referring to him by his full title.

    TIL NOW.

    MOMENT Abbas overstepped & went OFF THE RESERVATION, asking the UN for his State, he stopped being a “friendly” in Judonimh’s eyes.

    He became a “hostile”.

    He … in effect, his government ….. are now targets for Judonimh & apparently the WHOLE Jewish Zionist tribalist collective.

    Hell, Abbas is just an “Araboosh” ( or what’s that word the Israelis use derogatorily for Arabs & Palestinians ) ?

    Even Zionist Judge Goldstone was kept off his own grandson’s bar mitzvah after he issued his report, his life made a living hell, til he issued a recantation.

    So you can imagine what Abbas can expect now.

    & that’s the Mystery of Judonimh’s Volte Face on the PA.

    That’s the reason for his raising his demand & phrasing it the way he does at this moment.

    Has Israel now lost its CLOSEST Palestinian ally ?

    Is Israel’s ISOLATION even MORE COMPLETE than ever ??

  29. Savage:

    My motive for asking this question is that I lost a family member and close friends in the bombings if you really want to know, and I would like to see Amnesty International commit to launching a campaign to bringing their killers to justice at some point in the future when Palestine becomes a country and subjects itself to the International Criminal Court.

    In the news recently Amnesty International seems to be hounding across the world American officials from the Bush administration who travel abroad demanding they be arrested for condoning torture. Well what then about arresting those Palestinians officials who ordered mass murders of Israeli school children eating in a pizzeria. Are those innocent murdered Israeli children somehow less deserving of having justice done to their killers than are the self admitted Al Qeda 911 planners in Guantanamo Bay deserving of seeing Dick Cheney get arrested ?

    The blog above has as its subject the implications of the Palestinian statehood bid and this is one of the implications.

  30. Hello Judo,

    Thank you for your patience. You know – Amnesty International is a wonderful hybrid organization where work is done by a cadre of highly qualified, experienced, committed members along with highly professional paid staff. (You can see our history and how the organization evolved at http://www.amnestyusa.org/about-us/amnesty-50-yea

    ‘Country Specialists’, of which I am one, are responsible for a lot of the work that is done on the country they cover for their section of Amnesty, but they are not paid staff. If I don’t answer a question you ask, it is not an intentional slight, but probably because I’ve had to move onto another project or deadline.
    So apologize for delay – but it happens.

    re: "Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?"

    Amnesty International has ALREADY called for justice for the victims.

    You are correct – during that period of time, Amnesty International condemned all attacks against civilians, including the suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian armed groups. They said, “such deliberate and systematic targeting of civilians constitute a crime against humanity,” and that “Palestinian armed groups must put an immediate end to suicide bombings and other deliberate attacks against civilians."

    Amnesty also urged Israel and the Palestinian Authority to ensure that those arrested after the bombings not be tortured or ill-treated, have access to lawyers and be brought to justice promptly on recognizable criminal charges or released.

    Another factor concerning your question is that these acts took place over a period of time several years ago. I do not believe one can go back retroactively to prosecute a crime using new criteria not in place at the time of the act. The accountability process would be based on and/or administered on the status of the parties at the time of the crime I believe.

    As far as the international justice process which would include the use of the ICC (International Criminal Court) – this option only kicks in when or if the domestic, national judicial process fails in fulfilling its obligation to hold credible, transparent investigations and then hold accountable those guilty of a crime.

    Since the United States has failed to not only bring to justice those guilty of condoning and ordering torture as a policy, but has failed to even initiate investigations and has shown no willingness to do so, Amnesty is now asking that the international justice process kick in with nations practicing their right to international jurisdiction concerning former government officials such as President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

    But again – Amnesty DID call for justice for the victims at the time by urging that those arrested be promptly brought to justice.

    Amnesty International consistently calls for justice for ALL victims of violations of their rights around the globe and will continue to do so.

  31. Hello Judo,

    Thank you for your patience. You know – Amnesty International is a wonderful hybrid organization where work is done by a cadre of highly qualified, experienced, committed members along with highly professional paid staff. (You can see our history and how the organization evolved at http://www.amnestyusa.org/about-us/amnesty-50-yea

    ‘Country Specialists’, of which I am one, are responsible for a lot of the work that is done on the country they cover for their section of Amnesty, but they are not paid staff. If I don’t answer a question you ask, it is not an intentional slight, but probably because I’ve had to move onto another project or deadline.
    So apologize for delay – but it happens.

    re: "Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?"

    Amnesty International has ALREADY called for justice for the victims.

    You are correct – during that period of time, Amnesty International condemned all attacks against civilians, including the suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian armed groups. They said, “such deliberate and systematic targeting of civilians constitute a crime against humanity,” and that “Palestinian armed groups must put an immediate end to suicide bombings and other deliberate attacks against civilians."

    Amnesty also urged Israel and the Palestinian Authority to ensure that those arrested after the bombings not be tortured or ill-treated, have access to lawyers and be brought to justice promptly on recognizable criminal charges or released.

    Another factor concerning your question is that these acts took place over a period of time several years ago. I do not believe one can go back retroactively to prosecute a crime using new criteria not in place at the time of the act. The accountability process would be based on and/or administered on the status of the parties at the time of the crime I believe.

    As far as the international justice process which would include the use of the ICC (International Criminal Court) – this option only kicks in when or if the domestic, national judicial process fails in fulfilling its obligation to hold credible, transparent investigations and then hold accountable those guilty of a crime.

    Since the United States has failed to not only bring to justice those guilty of condoning and ordering torture as a policy, but has failed to even initiate investigations and has shown no willingness to do so, Amnesty is now asking that the international justice process kick in with nations practicing their right to international jurisdiction concerning former government officials such as President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

    But again – Amnesty DID call for justice for the victims at the time by urging that those arrested be promptly brought to justice.

    Amnesty International consistently calls for justice for ALL victims of violations of their rights around the globe and will continue to do so.

  32. Hello Judo,

    Thank you for your patience. You know – Amnesty International is a wonderful hybrid organization where work is done by a cadre of highly qualified, experienced, committed members along with highly professional paid staff. (You can see our history and how the organization evolved at http://www.amnestyusa.org/about-us/amnesty-50-yea

    ‘Country Specialists’, of which I am one, are responsible for a lot of the work that is done on the country they cover for their section of Amnesty, but they are not paid staff. If I don’t answer a question you ask, it is not an intentional slight, but probably because I’ve had to move onto another project or deadline.
    So apologize for delay – but it happens.

    re: "Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?"

    Amnesty International has ALREADY called for justice for the victims.

    You are correct – during that period of time, Amnesty International condemned all attacks against civilians, including the suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian armed groups. They said, “such deliberate and systematic targeting of civilians constitute a crime against humanity,” and that “Palestinian armed groups must put an immediate end to suicide bombings and other deliberate attacks against civilians."

    Amnesty also urged Israel and the Palestinian Authority to ensure that those arrested after the bombings not be tortured or ill-treated, have access to lawyers and be brought to justice promptly on recognizable criminal charges or released.

    Another factor concerning your question is that these acts took place over a period of time several years ago. I do not believe one can go back retroactively to prosecute a crime using new criteria not in place at the time of the act. The accountability process would be based on and/or administered on the status of the parties at the time of the crime I believe.

    As far as the international justice process which would include the use of the ICC (International Criminal Court) – this option only kicks in when or if the domestic, national judicial process fails in fulfilling its obligation to hold credible, transparent investigations and then hold accountable those guilty of a crime.

    Since the United States has failed to not only bring to justice those guilty of condoning and ordering torture as a policy, but has failed to even initiate investigations and has shown no willingness to do so, Amnesty is now asking that the international justice process kick in with nations practicing their right to international jurisdiction concerning former government officials such as President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

    But again – Amnesty DID call for justice for the victims at the time by urging that those arrested be promptly brought to justice.

    Amnesty International consistently calls for justice for ALL victims of violations of their rights around the globe and will continue to do so.

  33. And Judo – my condolences on your loss. I'm very sorry to hear that you lost someone close to you in a bombing.

    No matter how often I hear of tragedies like this one, it continues to saddens me, but this is also why many of us at Amnesty continue to work to prevent acts like this in the future by working for respect of human rights and justice now.

    Edie

  34. Savage:

    My motive for asking this question is that I lost a family member and close friends in the bombings if you really want to know, and I would like to see Amnesty International commit to launching a campaign to bringing their killers to justice at some point in the future when Palestine becomes a country and subjects itself to the International Criminal Court.

    In the news recently Amnesty International seems to be hounding across the world American officials from the Bush administration who travel abroad demanding they be arrested for condoning torture. Well what then about arresting those Palestinians officials who ordered mass murders of Israeli school children eating in a pizzeria. Are those innocent murdered Israeli children somehow less deserving of having justice done to their killers than are the self admitted Al Qeda 911 planners in Guantanamo Bay deserving of seeing Dick Cheney get arrested ?

    The blog above has as its subject the implications of the Palestinian statehood bid and this is one of the implications.

  35. Hello Judo,

    Thank you for your patience. You know – Amnesty International is a wonderful hybrid organization where work is done by a cadre of highly qualified, experienced, committed members along with highly professional paid staff. (You can see our history and how the organization evolved at http://www.amnestyusa.org/about-us/amnesty-50-years.)

    ‘Country Specialists’, of which I am one, are responsible for a lot of the work that is done on the country they cover for their section of Amnesty, but they are not paid staff. If I don’t answer a question you ask, it is not an intentional slight, but probably because I’ve had to move onto another project or deadline.
    So apologize for delay – but it happens.

    re: “Will Amnesty demand justice for these dead?”

    Amnesty International has ALREADY called for justice for the victims.

    You are correct – during that period of time, Amnesty International condemned all attacks against civilians, including the suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian armed groups. They said, “such deliberate and systematic targeting of civilians constitute a crime against humanity,” and that “Palestinian armed groups must put an immediate end to suicide bombings and other deliberate attacks against civilians.”

    Amnesty also urged Israel and the Palestinian Authority to ensure that those arrested after the bombings not be tortured or ill-treated, have access to lawyers and be brought to justice promptly on recognizable criminal charges or released.

    Another factor concerning your question is that these acts took place over a period of time several years ago. I do not believe one can go back retroactively to prosecute a crime using new criteria not in place at the time of the act. The accountability process would be based on and/or administered on the status of the parties at the time of the crime I believe.

    As far as the international justice process which would include the use of the ICC (International Criminal Court) – this option only kicks in when or if the domestic, national judicial process fails in fulfilling its obligation to hold credible, transparent investigations and then hold accountable those guilty of a crime.

    Since the United States has failed to not only bring to justice those guilty of condoning and ordering torture as a policy, but has failed to even initiate investigations and has shown no willingness to do so, Amnesty is now asking that the international justice process kick in with nations practicing their right to international jurisdiction concerning former government officials such as President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

    But again – Amnesty DID call for justice for the victims at the time by urging that those arrested be promptly brought to justice.

    Amnesty International consistently calls for justice for ALL victims of violations of their rights around the globe and will continue to do so.

  36. And Judo – my condolences on your loss. I’m very sorry to hear that you lost someone close to you in a bombing.

    No matter how often I hear of tragedies like this one, it continues to saddens me, but this is also why many of us at Amnesty continue to work to prevent acts like this in the future by working for respect of human rights and justice now.

    Edie

  37. israel's a state for over 60 autumns.

    What's been the implication of israel's statehood ?

    Does israel EVER bow, or show itself open, to international courts or rulings ?

    On the CONTRARY, its statehood has been used by it to put itself ABOVE ALL international law.

    ABOVE ALL international verdict.

    EVEN ABOVE ALL international INVESTIGATION.

    ABOVE all international steps to institute justice.

    Judonimh has himself been part of this israeli stonewalling of all international legal approaches to israel on this blogsite.

    How can he demand a completely DIFFERENT approach of others NOW WITHOUT dissociating himself from his OWN OPPOSITE approach vis a vis israel ?

    **** *****

    A STATE for the Oppressed ( in this case, the Palestinians ) ?

    WHERE ?

    What "INPLICATIONS" for such a State or the issue of its Statehood CAN there be, when the Zionist state CUTS IT OFF at its BASE ?

  38. Occupy Wall Street is here !

    Our great chance to bring Palestine's issues to the streets of America … & the world.

    Connect the people's OWS movement to End the War … to End Aid to Israel.

    OWS for Palestine !

    **** ****

    Palestinians & their allies must move in Palestine & throughout the world

    In many forms of People's Struggles .

    To STRENGTHEN PALESTINIAN SOVEREIGNTY at EVERY level.

    Land Sovereignty.

    National Sovereignty.

    Natural Sovereignty — Ecological Sovereignty.

    Identity Sovereignty.

    Educational Sovereignty.

    Media Sovereignty.

    Intellectual Sovereignty.

    Cultural Sovereignty.

    The Struggle for Sovereignty leads to State Power … & beyond it …. to the People's & the individual 's Power.

    EVERY level.

    Let's get to work !

  39. You ask for justice ?

    Then open her door.

    For all.

    Had the door been open, you wouldn't have had to ask, in the first place.

    There'd be no cause or need to.

  40. israel’s a state for over 60 autumns.

    What’s been the implication of israel’s statehood ?

    Does israel EVER bow, or show itself open, to international courts or rulings ?

    On the CONTRARY, its statehood has been used by it to put itself ABOVE ALL international law.

    ABOVE ALL international verdict.

    EVEN ABOVE ALL international INVESTIGATION.

    ABOVE all international steps to institute justice.

    Judonimh has himself been part of this israeli stonewalling of all international legal approaches to israel on this blogsite.

    How can he demand a completely DIFFERENT approach of others NOW WITHOUT dissociating himself from his OWN OPPOSITE approach vis a vis israel ?

    **** *****

    A STATE for the Oppressed ( in this case, the Palestinians ) ?

    WHERE ?

    What “INPLICATIONS” for such a State or the issue of its Statehood CAN there be, when the Zionist state CUTS IT OFF at its BASE ?

  41. Occupy Wall Street is here !

    Our great chance to bring Palestine’s issues to the streets of America … & the world.

    Connect the people’s OWS movement to End the War … to End Aid to Israel.

    OWS for Palestine !

    **** ****

    Palestinians & their allies must move in Palestine & throughout the world

    In many forms of People’s Struggles .

    To STRENGTHEN PALESTINIAN SOVEREIGNTY at EVERY level.

    Land Sovereignty.

    National Sovereignty.

    Natural Sovereignty — Ecological Sovereignty.

    Identity Sovereignty.

    Educational Sovereignty.

    Media Sovereignty.

    Intellectual Sovereignty.

    Cultural Sovereignty.

    The Struggle for Sovereignty leads to State Power … & beyond it …. to the People’s & the individual ‘s Power.

    EVERY level.

    Let’s get to work !

  42. You ask for justice ?

    Then open her door.

    For all.

    Had the door been open, you wouldn’t have had to ask, in the first place.

    There’d be no cause or need to.

  43. Judonimh,

    What about the thousands of innocent dead who were massacred by violent Israeli extremists such as the Haganagh, Irgun and Stern terrorist gangs. Are you old enough to remember the King David Hotel? What "justice "was done for the relatives of all the women and children who died in that horrific bombing? Just becvause they were only the wives and children of British officers serving in Palestine and helping to keep the peace does not make them less human than the Israelis..! What about the victims and relatives of the Saba and Chatila refugee camps in Lebanon who died a horrific death as the Phalangist militias(Completely supported and armed, trained and supervised by the Israelis) invaded their camps and shot them..women children, old men and sme babies.. What about the 1,200 Lebanese who died during Israel's aerial bombardment of Southern Beirut? Over 400 of these were children who did nothing wrong.. This, again is a perfect example of the whinging, self-centred, self-pitying Zionist, you just can't see that others may have suffered more than you..the whole universe must revolve around Israel and her needs, her suffering and etc, etc, etc… adinfinitum.. I might as well add that some of the leaders of these Al Qaeda like Zionist terrorist groups actually went on to become the leaders of the state of Israel – Begin and Shamir being two prominent ones that spring to mind. Karma will always come back to haunt you Judo nimh…

  44. Judonimh,

    What about the thousands of innocent dead who were massacred by violent Israeli extremists such as the Haganagh, Irgun and Stern terrorist gangs. Are you old enough to remember the King David Hotel? What “justice “was done for the relatives of all the women and children who died in that horrific bombing? Just becvause they were only the wives and children of British officers serving in Palestine and helping to keep the peace does not make them less human than the Israelis..! What about the victims and relatives of the Saba and Chatila refugee camps in Lebanon who died a horrific death as the Phalangist militias(Completely supported and armed, trained and supervised by the Israelis) invaded their camps and shot them..women children, old men and sme babies.. What about the 1,200 Lebanese who died during Israel’s aerial bombardment of Southern Beirut? Over 400 of these were children who did nothing wrong.. This, again is a perfect example of the whinging, self-centred, self-pitying Zionist, you just can’t see that others may have suffered more than you..the whole universe must revolve around Israel and her needs, her suffering and etc, etc, etc… adinfinitum.. I might as well add that some of the leaders of these Al Qaeda like Zionist terrorist groups actually went on to become the leaders of the state of Israel – Begin and Shamir being two prominent ones that spring to mind. Karma will always come back to haunt you Judo nimh…