Comments on: Gaza By The Numbers http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/ The Amnesty International USA Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:29:41 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: speegogrere http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-1000 speegogrere Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:19:16 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-1000 yo, blog.amnestyusa.org great name for site))) yo, blog.amnestyusa.org great name for site)))

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]]> By: SURESH http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-950 SURESH Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:30:15 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-950 It is absolutely ridiculous for everyone to critise israel,as iran,hezbollah, etc calls for the destruction for israel,99% percent of middleast belongs to the arabs and probably 1% of land belongs to israel dont expect the jews to move to the sea it is their historical land including gaza,bethelem,juruselam etc. Honestly i feel bad for the people of GAZA but in order to start the peace process the people of palestine need to be realistic for whom they vote for if there is another election. The holocoust is always compared to the plight of the palestinians, there is not killing fields in palestine infact there are palestinians who are citizens of israel.The reason why israel defend itself in the manner it did in gaza is of self defence in nature.Iran and hezbollah are the biggest culpirits by supplying arms and manipulating palestinians which leads to the suffering of the palestinian people who are used as human shield by hamas.For iran who are persians it is just a proxy game waged against America and israel.For those who march around the world do not March on issues you dont understand why not march for rhwanda,Sudan,Congo, somalia,zimbabwe etc,millions have perished in those countries.Whether people are ignorant or not but the palestinian cause is a popular conflict unlike those in africa where even UN does not comment much except for donations which mostly comes from AMERICA.For instance one example when TSUNAMI accured in ASIA more then 200,000 people died ,the victims mostly from INDONESIA -the biggest muslim populated country in the world,SAUDI ARABIA was busy collecting donation and handing out the donations to sucide bomber who kill other civilians.There is too many flaws on how UN functions,political ideology,greedy politicians,proxy war waged and religious fanatics who sacrife their own people which nobody can comprehend.It is every person's right to have their own opinion but look at the facts rather then the Rhetoric Propaganda and ifluenced by the victims religous beliefs. It is absolutely ridiculous for everyone to critise israel,as iran,hezbollah, etc
calls for the destruction for israel,99% percent of middleast belongs to the
arabs and probably 1% of land belongs to israel dont expect the jews to move to the sea it is their historical land including gaza,bethelem,juruselam etc.
Honestly i feel bad for the people of GAZA but in order to start the peace process the people of palestine need to be realistic for whom they vote for if there is another election. The holocoust is always compared to the plight of
the palestinians, there is not killing fields in palestine infact there are palestinians who are citizens of israel.The reason why israel defend itself
in the manner it did in gaza is of self defence in nature.Iran and hezbollah are the biggest culpirits by supplying arms and manipulating palestinians which leads to the suffering of the palestinian people who are used as human shield by hamas.For iran who are persians it is just a proxy game waged against
America and israel.For those who march around the world do not March on issues you dont understand why not march for rhwanda,Sudan,Congo,
somalia,zimbabwe etc,millions have perished in those countries.Whether people are ignorant or not but the palestinian cause is a popular conflict unlike those in africa where even UN does not comment much except for donations which mostly comes from AMERICA.For instance one example when TSUNAMI accured in ASIA more then 200,000 people died ,the victims mostly from INDONESIA -the biggest muslim populated country in the world,SAUDI ARABIA was busy collecting donation and handing out the donations to sucide bomber who kill other civilians.There is too many flaws on how UN functions,political ideology,greedy politicians,proxy war waged and religious fanatics who sacrife their own people which nobody can comprehend.It is every person’s right to have their own opinion but look at the facts rather then the Rhetoric Propaganda and ifluenced by the victims religous beliefs.

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]]> By: janice faris http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-660 janice faris Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:44:39 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-660 I do not understand why the American people do not ask that our government demand an emergency meeting of the UN in order to get UN Peacekeeping troops to halt the violence between the Palestinians and Israeli army. Troops should be stationed along the border to see that no Israeli troops be allowed to enter Palestinian land. Troops should seek out the sites which are launching Hamas rockets and end that activity. Finally, the U.S. Secretary of State should bring all parties to the table to forge a just and lasting peace. The U.S. should END all financial and military aid to Israel until it agrees to participate in the process. Why is the UN sitting on the sidelines?? I do not understand why it does not see that it should intervene when genocide is being committed in Gaza and Darfur? It should investigate its own non-action also in the case of Rawanda. I do not understand why the American people do not ask that our government demand an emergency meeting of the UN in order to get UN Peacekeeping troops to halt the violence between the Palestinians and Israeli army. Troops should be stationed along the border to see that no Israeli troops be allowed to enter Palestinian land. Troops should seek out the sites which are launching Hamas rockets and end that activity.
Finally, the U.S. Secretary of State should bring all parties to the table to forge a just and lasting peace. The U.S. should END all financial and military aid to Israel until it agrees to participate in the process.

Why is the UN sitting on the sidelines?? I do not understand why it does not see that it should intervene when genocide is being committed in Gaza and Darfur? It should investigate its own non-action also in the case of Rawanda.

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]]> By: John M http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-642 John M Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:58:37 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-642 Some thoughts: 1) The so-called rockets are little more than lethal versions of the rockets we used to play with as kids. They look like toys. True, Hamas should not target civilians. There is a remote chance someone will get hurt or killed. 2) Israel's response is, as usual, disproportionate. 3) The Palestinians' plight seems similar to the American Indians in the 19th century. We kept forcing them into smaller pockets of their land because we demanded (stole) the rest of their land for our use. We basically wiped out the Indians for own gain, much as the Israelies are doing to the Palestinians. 4) Someone needs to take both sides' weapons away and put them on equal footing. It will be bloody, but they could find peace as a united, secular Palestinian-Israeli nation. Sounds like something Captain Kirk would do. Some thoughts:

1) The so-called rockets are little more than lethal versions of the rockets we used to play with as kids. They look like toys. True, Hamas should not target civilians. There is a remote chance someone will get hurt or killed.

2) Israel’s response is, as usual, disproportionate.

3) The Palestinians’ plight seems similar to the American Indians in the 19th century. We kept forcing them into smaller pockets of their land because we demanded (stole) the rest of their land for our use. We basically wiped out the Indians for own gain, much as the Israelies are doing to the Palestinians.

4) Someone needs to take both sides’ weapons away and put them on equal footing. It will be bloody, but they could find peace as a united, secular Palestinian-Israeli nation. Sounds like something Captain Kirk would do.

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]]> By: Paul Rosa http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-638 Paul Rosa Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:25:15 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-638 I strongly agree with AL who thinks the Hamas rockets are not the real reason Israel has so brutally attacked the Gaza strip. I think it is because Hamas - (a"terrorist" organization - who's calling the kettle red here?) was actually successfully managing to keep the strip together. And they were honest whereas Fatah has a reputation for political corruption. The Israeli's were needlessly brutal to Lebanon in '06 and seemed to strike targets that were far removed from military purposes. They seemed to want to destroy a commercial rival in that they were targeting factories and the highway system. Israel probably looses more lives to traffic accidents than Hamas rockets ever took. Those rockets were also notoriously inaccurate or purposely sent for their nuisance value. It seems more like a psychological ploy than a physical threat. The people of the southern Israeli towns were not so upset by them that they considered evacuation those towns. The fact that now that the area is in open war and the rockets are getting more accurate and have a longer range seems to prove that point. If the claim the Israelis make that Hamas is shielding itself with the civilian population why aren't both Egypt and Israel and for that matter boatlifts from other Mediterranean countries trying to remove that shield as quickly as possible? The UN has stated that the Gazan civilians have the right to leave the area and it is the neighboring countries obligation to take them in. What I cannot accept about the Israelis is their claim that the Palestinians are so dangerous to them. If they really were, why were so many hundreds of thousands of settlers so eager to rush in to confiscated Palestinian territory to construct settlements? Israel is using civilians as military outposts if you accept their point of view. You could use the argument that Israel is also using civilians to further military aims itself. One more comment- For the Israelis to condemn a Catholic Cardinal as a holocaust denier because he called Gaza a concentration camp - isn't it? is only doing what so many people really suspect about "Shoa Business"; that the Holocaust is being pushed as a trumping argument against any criticism of Israeli behavior. The Israelis are doing to the Gaza Strip what the Nazis did to the Warsaw Ghetto. Isn't there an adage - "you become what you hate" I strongly agree with AL who thinks the Hamas rockets are not the real reason Israel has so brutally attacked the Gaza strip. I think it is because Hamas – (a”terrorist” organization – who’s calling the kettle red here?) was actually successfully managing to keep the strip together. And they were honest whereas Fatah has a reputation for political corruption. The Israeli’s were needlessly brutal to Lebanon in ‘06 and seemed to strike targets that were far removed from military purposes. They seemed to want to destroy a commercial rival in that they were targeting factories and the highway system.

Israel probably looses more lives to traffic accidents than Hamas rockets ever took. Those rockets were also notoriously inaccurate or purposely sent for their nuisance value. It seems more like a psychological ploy than a physical threat. The people of the southern Israeli towns were not so upset by them that they considered evacuation those towns. The fact that now that the area is in open war and the rockets are getting more accurate and have a longer range seems to prove that point.

If the claim the Israelis make that Hamas is shielding itself with the civilian population why aren’t both Egypt and Israel and for that matter boatlifts from other Mediterranean countries trying to remove that shield as quickly as possible? The UN has stated that the Gazan civilians have the right to leave the area and it is the neighboring countries obligation to take them in.

What I cannot accept about the Israelis is their claim that the Palestinians are so dangerous to them. If they really were, why were so many hundreds of thousands of settlers so eager to rush in to confiscated Palestinian territory to construct settlements? Israel is using civilians as military outposts if you accept their point of view. You could use the argument that Israel is also using civilians to further military aims itself.

One more comment- For the Israelis to condemn a Catholic Cardinal as a holocaust denier because he called Gaza a concentration camp – isn’t it? is only doing what so many people really suspect about “Shoa Business”; that the Holocaust is being pushed as a trumping argument against any criticism of Israeli behavior. The Israelis are doing to the Gaza Strip what the Nazis did to the Warsaw Ghetto. Isn’t there an adage – “you become what you hate”

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]]> By: Hilda Stevan http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-637 Hilda Stevan Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:16:16 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-637 I don't understand the term, "disproportionate response." I read it a lot but never have seen what anyone considers a proportionate response. Exactly what would be appropriate for Israel to do given that Hamas will not stop the rocket barrage? I've read a fair amount of the fact that Israel does this in response to the continuing Hamas rocket attack but where has anyone suggested that Hamas stop this "disproportionate rocket barrage"? I don’t understand the term, “disproportionate response.” I read it a lot but never have seen what anyone considers a proportionate response. Exactly what would be appropriate for Israel to do given that Hamas will not stop the rocket barrage? I’ve read a fair amount of the fact that Israel does this in response to the continuing Hamas rocket attack but where has anyone suggested that Hamas stop this “disproportionate rocket barrage”?

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]]> By: fLORA mARGALIT http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-634 fLORA mARGALIT Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:14:57 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-634 ll the remarks are very smart, you only forget one crucial element: the Hamas leaders don't give a damn about their people, they use them as human shields! where are the fanatic leaders that want to die as "shahids" but do not leave the bunkers? why every house that the Israeli soldiers reach if full of weapons and explosives, trap puppets and the like? Of course I do not say that this situation was created motu propio by the civilians, THEY ARE THE VICTIMS OF THER OWN LEADERS WHO USE THEM CYNICALLY , the more Palestinian civilian casualties THE BETTER FOR THEIR LEADERS , they can go on playing the underdog and direct the pointing finger towards Israel. The "truce" with Hamas was the saddest farce ever, they went on shelling Israeli cities and even now, that a 3 hour truce was established for humanitarian purposes, THEY broke it and fired rockets into Israel. It is time to stop the double standard towards Israel, it smells of something beyond purity of ideology/purpose/action. HAMAS HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THAT IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO EXIST, HAS MASSIVELY SHELLED CIVILIANS, HAS CREATED A WELL ARMED ARMY WITH IRANIAN HELP AND YET, ONLY ISRAEL IS TO BLAME...SURREALISTIC! and if it would not be so tragic and crucially vital , it would be one of the best jokes ever... IT IS NOT ISRAEL THE ONE THA CREATED "UNLIVABLE CONDITIONS" IN GAZA , BUT THE HAMAS LEADERS WHO WORK MORE FOR THE DEATH OF ISRAELIS THAN FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR PEOPLE. ll the remarks are very smart, you only forget one crucial element: the Hamas leaders don’t give a damn about their people, they use them as human shields! where are the fanatic leaders that want to die as “shahids” but do not leave the bunkers? why every house that the Israeli soldiers reach if full of weapons and explosives, trap puppets and the like? Of course I do not say that this situation was created motu propio by the civilians, THEY ARE THE VICTIMS OF THER OWN LEADERS WHO USE THEM CYNICALLY , the more Palestinian civilian casualties THE BETTER FOR THEIR LEADERS , they can go on playing the underdog and direct the pointing finger towards Israel. The “truce” with Hamas was the saddest farce ever, they went on shelling Israeli cities and even now, that a 3 hour truce was established for humanitarian purposes, THEY broke it and fired rockets into Israel.

It is time to stop the double standard towards Israel, it smells of something beyond purity of ideology/purpose/action. HAMAS HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THAT IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO EXIST, HAS MASSIVELY SHELLED CIVILIANS, HAS CREATED A WELL ARMED ARMY WITH IRANIAN HELP AND YET, ONLY ISRAEL IS TO BLAME…SURREALISTIC! and if it would not be so tragic and crucially vital , it would be one of the best jokes ever…

IT IS NOT ISRAEL THE ONE THA CREATED “UNLIVABLE CONDITIONS” IN GAZA , BUT THE HAMAS LEADERS WHO WORK MORE FOR THE DEATH OF ISRAELIS THAN FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR PEOPLE.

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]]> By: A Humanitarian Truce or Farce? | Human Rights Now - Amnesty International USA Blog http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-629 A Humanitarian Truce or Farce? | Human Rights Now - Amnesty International USA Blog Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:42:15 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-629 [...] Since the Hamas electoral victory in 2007, Israel has gradually blockaded humanitarian assistance from entering Gaza, creating unlivable conditions.  I blogged about the effect of this in an earlier posting called “Gaza by the Numbers.” [...] [...] Since the Hamas electoral victory in 2007, Israel has gradually blockaded humanitarian assistance from entering Gaza, creating unlivable conditions.  I blogged about the effect of this in an earlier posting called “Gaza by the Numbers.” [...]

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]]> By: AL http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-590 AL Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:16:52 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-590 Rockets? Really? You actually think Israel is attacking Gaza because of rockets. That is the propaganda of the media that has given you that information. Wake up. In the past 7 years 17 Israelis have died from rockets fire, but thousands of Palestinians, including many children have been killed by Israeli rockets and bombs. The reality is Israel with full support of the united states wants to completely wipe out the Palestinians, and take over all the land. America supports them because Israel is a force in the middle east for America to keep and gain more power,influence, and control. Israel is an extension of American imperialism. Simple as that. There is no negotiation to be met. They want to eliminate anybody against their interest and dominate the middle east. That is why the united states keeps giving billions of dollars of free money to Israel. American tax payer money, and they keep providing them with tons of weapons. Israel is the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons. They would wipe out Iran if they could get away with it. The mass media propaganda has justified mass murder and genocide. You hear nothing of the thousands of Israeli citizens protesting what the government is doing. You hear nothing about the dozens of jewish organizations that want this occupation to end now. You hear nothing about the many Israeli soldiers who refuse to goto the occupied colonies because they believe what the Israeli government is doing is wrong. You don't hear anything about all the pregnant women force to deliver their babies on the side of the road by Israeli road blocks. Many die as a result. The constant humiliation,torture,blockages,bull dozing,destruction of crops,bombing mosques,bombing schools, the thousands injured and killed by israel military. Rockets? Really? You actually think Israel is attacking Gaza because of rockets. That is the propaganda of the media that has given you that information. Wake up. In the past 7 years 17 Israelis have died from rockets fire, but thousands of Palestinians, including many children have been killed by Israeli rockets and bombs. The reality is Israel with full support of the united states wants to completely wipe out the Palestinians, and take over all the land. America supports them because Israel is a force in the middle east for America to keep and gain more power,influence, and control. Israel is an extension of American imperialism. Simple as that. There is no negotiation to be met. They want to eliminate anybody against their interest and dominate the middle east. That is why the united states keeps giving billions of dollars of free money to Israel. American tax payer money, and they keep providing them with tons of weapons. Israel is the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons. They would wipe out Iran if they could get away with it. The mass media propaganda has justified mass murder and genocide. You hear nothing of the thousands of Israeli citizens protesting what the government is doing. You hear nothing about the dozens of jewish organizations that want this occupation to end now. You hear nothing about the many Israeli soldiers who refuse to goto the occupied colonies because they believe what the Israeli government is doing is wrong. You don’t hear anything about all the pregnant women force to deliver their babies on the side of the road by Israeli road blocks. Many die as a result. The constant humiliation,torture,blockages,bull dozing,destruction of crops,bombing mosques,bombing schools, the thousands injured and killed by israel military.

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]]> By: Edie http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-587 Edie Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:59:01 +0000 http://blog.amnestyusa.org/?p=635#comment-587 Dotan is correct - the rockets being fired into southern Israel by armed Palestinian groups are unlawful; they are indiscriminate and have injured dozens and killed 4 Israelis since Israel started this latest offensive. Not diminishing that fact and understanding that Israel has the right and duty to protect their citizens, Israel MUST still carry out this duty within certain limits of necessity, proportionality and discrimination. Israel has failed to do this on many counts in their response to these rockets in Gaza. They must use the least intrusive means at their disposal to deal with threats. Barnum - Israel's responsibilities to the people in the Gaza Strip did not end when they removed Jewish settlers in 2005. Israel retained control of land crossings and air and sea space. They control all imports/exports and flow of people into and out of the Gaza Strip. The welfare of the inhabitants of the strip remain Israel's responsibility. Exports were stopped in 2007 when Hamas took over complete control of the strip and imports were stopped (including humanitarian aid - food, water, fuel, medicine) in early November when the ceasefire started to fall apart. * note: the small amounts of humanitarian aid let in periodically is a fraction of what is required for a population of 1.5 million, especially with stores already exhausted. The humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip, even before this latest series of airstrikes, was completely man-made by Israeli policies. The inhabitants were basically being held captive for the acts of renegade, armed Palestinian groups, including Hamas. This is called collective punishment and is unlawful. Dotan is correct – the rockets being fired into southern Israel by armed Palestinian groups are unlawful; they are indiscriminate and have injured dozens and killed 4 Israelis since Israel started this latest offensive. Not diminishing that fact and understanding that Israel has the right and duty to protect their citizens, Israel MUST still carry out this duty within certain limits of necessity, proportionality and discrimination. Israel has failed to do this on many counts in their response to these rockets in Gaza. They must use the least intrusive means at their disposal to deal with threats.

Barnum – Israel’s responsibilities to the people in the Gaza Strip did not end when they removed Jewish settlers in 2005. Israel retained control of land crossings and air and sea space. They control all imports/exports and flow of people into and out of the Gaza Strip. The welfare of the inhabitants of the strip remain Israel’s responsibility.

Exports were stopped in 2007 when Hamas took over complete control of the strip and imports were stopped (including humanitarian aid – food, water, fuel, medicine) in early November when the ceasefire started to fall apart.

* note: the small amounts of humanitarian aid let in periodically is a fraction of what is required for a population of 1.5 million, especially with stores already exhausted.

The humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip, even before this latest series of airstrikes, was completely man-made by Israeli policies. The inhabitants were basically being held captive for the acts of renegade, armed Palestinian groups, including Hamas. This is called collective punishment and is unlawful.

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