After witnessing the deaths of her father Fathi, her sister Ismat, and her brother Ala on January 14, Amira Alqerem has turned to the (ICC) seven months later in hopes of justice for her family. Her family was attacked in Gaza during which lasted 22 days this past January and resulted in the deaths of more than 1,300 Palestinians and three Israelis.
The AFP reported on Alqerem’s court filing:
“The three children were awoken by an explosion to find their father’s body, covered in blood, next to a crater near their house, the document claims. Ismat and Ala went off to seek help, but were killed in another explosion. Amira, who had stayed behind with her dead father, was hit in the right leg.”
Gilles Devers, an international lawyer from Lyon, is currently representing Alqerem. He believes the Israeli attacks were aimed at citizens and recently said, “This was a crime against humanity, that is why we brought it to the ICC.” He also reaffirmed the need for accountability, adding that “Israeli politicians and military leaders must be held responsible.”
Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the ICC Prosecutor, began a preliminary analysis in February of the alleged crimes committed by Israel during Operation Cast Lead. He has received many claims similar to that of Amira Alqerem and to date, has received complaints from over 360 individuals in addition to evidence of wrong-doing from other non-governmental bodies, the Palestinian Justice Minister Ali Kashan, and the Palestinian National Authority all pertaining to this most recent Israeli offensive.
Through her interpreter, Alqerem noted that she was doing this “for all the children of Gaza” and that “I want to do something to change the situation.”
Sana Javed contributed to this post.
How unfair and unjust this is.
The International Kangaroo Court has never had a single hearing into Russia's extermination of 1/3 the population of Chechnya a decade ago.
The IKC has never investigated China's 60 year illegal occupation of Tibet and cultural genocide of a 5000 year old civilization including the killings and executions of thousands of protesters last year.
The IKC has never investigated the US or Britain for the illegal invasion of Iraq which has lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Even today, September 4th, 2009 comes news that over 90 Afghani civilians were killed yesterday in a US Air force bombing.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090904/D9AGHR5G…
And what will we hear from the IKC on this matter, of repeated US bombings of Afgan civilians under the direct approval of President Obama ? Nothing, thats what, total complete silence, just as though all the hundreds of Afghani women and babies that President Obama has already personally ordered burnt alive in US air force bombings of civilians just since January when he took office never existed and their deaths are meaningless.
Sri Lanka which murdered 10s of thousands of civilians just a few months ago, and instead of an ivestigation by this farce of a court, Sri Lanka is actualy praised for it's actions by the IKC's parent body the UN. In a resolution with the co-sponsorship of Indonesia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bahrain, Philippines, Cuba, Egypt, Nicaragua, and Bolivia, the UN passed a resolution in May 2009 that "Welcomes the liberation by the Government of Sri Lanka of tens of thousands of its citizens" and “Commends the measures taken by the Government of Sri Lanka to address the urgent needs of the internally displaced persons” and “Welcomes the continued cooperation between the Government of Sri Lanka and the relevant UN Agencies and other humanitarian organizations in the provision of humanitarian assistance to the affected people”
Israel, pulled out of every square centimeter of Gaza completely more than 3 years ago, removed every single last settler and soldier 3 years ago, and is not totaly blockading Gaza contrary to propaganda since for 3 years there is not one single Jewish soldier on the 30 kilometer border between Gaza and Egypt. In return Hamas, the group which seized power from the recognized Palestinian Authority illegally in a violent civil war in which over 1000 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians, ordered launched over 10,000 rockets fired randomly at Israeli civilians, an act called a crime against humanity by none other than Amnesty International. The Secretary General of the UN declared Israel under international law was justified in taking action to protect its civilians from rocket attacks from Gaza and stated the Palestinians were committing war crimes by continuing to fire them at Israeli civilians.
But even though the war Israel made on Hamas was completely legal and justified self defence, if Israeli soldiers acted illegally towards civilians under the laws of war in certain cases like for example this particular case this girl claimed to witness, it is fair to investigated this to find out.
But not by the IKC.
When the IKC goes after the major war criminals on Earth, China, Russia, the US, Britain, etc. or even Sri Lanka, then it would be fair to investigate if Israeli soldiers acted illegaly in Gaza. Otherwise, to focus solely on Israel and ignore the vast majority of the rest of the world makes the IKC exactly what I call it, a Kangaroo court, biased against Israel, with no justice or fairness.
How unfair and unjust this is.
The International Kangaroo Court has never had a single hearing into Russia's extermination of 1/3 the population of Chechnya a decade ago.
The IKC has never investigated China's 60 year illegal occupation of Tibet and cultural genocide of a 5000 year old civilization including the killings and executions of thousands of protesters last year.
The IKC has never investigated the US or Britain for the illegal invasion of Iraq which has lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Even today, September 4th, 2009 comes news that over 90 Afghani civilians were killed yesterday in a US Air force bombing.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090904/D9AGHR5G…
And what will we hear from the IKC on this matter, of repeated US bombings of Afgan civilians under the direct approval of President Obama ? Nothing, thats what, total complete silence, just as though all the hundreds of Afghani women and babies that President Obama has already personally ordered burnt alive in US air force bombings of civilians just since January when he took office never existed and their deaths are meaningless.
Sri Lanka which murdered 10s of thousands of civilians just a few months ago, and instead of an ivestigation by this farce of a court, Sri Lanka is actualy praised for it's actions by the IKC's parent body the UN. In a resolution with the co-sponsorship of Indonesia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bahrain, Philippines, Cuba, Egypt, Nicaragua, and Bolivia, the UN passed a resolution in May 2009 that "Welcomes the liberation by the Government of Sri Lanka of tens of thousands of its citizens" and “Commends the measures taken by the Government of Sri Lanka to address the urgent needs of the internally displaced persons” and “Welcomes the continued cooperation between the Government of Sri Lanka and the relevant UN Agencies and other humanitarian organizations in the provision of humanitarian assistance to the affected people”
Israel, pulled out of every square centimeter of Gaza completely more than 3 years ago, removed every single last settler and soldier 3 years ago, and is not totaly blockading Gaza contrary to propaganda since for 3 years there is not one single Jewish soldier on the 30 kilometer border between Gaza and Egypt. In return Hamas, the group which seized power from the recognized Palestinian Authority illegally in a violent civil war in which over 1000 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians, ordered launched over 10,000 rockets fired randomly at Israeli civilians, an act called a crime against humanity by none other than Amnesty International. The Secretary General of the UN declared Israel under international law was justified in taking action to protect its civilians from rocket attacks from Gaza and stated the Palestinians were committing war crimes by continuing to fire them at Israeli civilians.
But even though the war Israel made on Hamas was completely legal and justified self defence, if Israeli soldiers acted illegally towards civilians under the laws of war in certain cases like for example this particular case this girl claimed to witness, it is fair to investigated this to find out.
But not by the IKC.
When the IKC goes after the major war criminals on Earth, China, Russia, the US, Britain, etc. or even Sri Lanka, then it would be fair to investigate if Israeli soldiers acted illegaly in Gaza. Otherwise, to focus solely on Israel and ignore the vast majority of the rest of the world makes the IKC exactly what I call it, a Kangaroo court, biased against Israel, with no justice or fairness.
How unfair and unjust this is.
The International Kangaroo Court has never had a single hearing into Russia's extermination of 1/3 the population of Chechnya a decade ago.
The IKC has never investigated China's 60 year illegal occupation of Tibet and cultural genocide of a 5000 year old civilization including the killings and executions of thousands of protesters last year.
The IKC has never investigated the US or Britain for the illegal invasion of Iraq which has lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Even today, September 4th, 2009 comes news that over 90 Afghani civilians were killed yesterday in a US Air force bombing.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090904/D9AGHR5G…
And what will we hear from the IKC on this matter, of repeated US bombings of Afgan civilians under the direct approval of President Obama ? Nothing, thats what, total complete silence, just as though all the hundreds of Afghani women and babies that President Obama has already personally ordered burnt alive in US air force bombings of civilians just since January when he took office never existed and their deaths are meaningless.
Sri Lanka which murdered 10s of thousands of civilians just a few months ago, and instead of an ivestigation by this farce of a court, Sri Lanka is actualy praised for it's actions by the IKC's parent body the UN. In a resolution with the co-sponsorship of Indonesia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bahrain, Philippines, Cuba, Egypt, Nicaragua, and Bolivia, the UN passed a resolution in May 2009 that "Welcomes the liberation by the Government of Sri Lanka of tens of thousands of its citizens" and “Commends the measures taken by the Government of Sri Lanka to address the urgent needs of the internally displaced persons” and “Welcomes the continued cooperation between the Government of Sri Lanka and the relevant UN Agencies and other humanitarian organizations in the provision of humanitarian assistance to the affected people”
Israel, pulled out of every square centimeter of Gaza completely more than 3 years ago, removed every single last settler and soldier 3 years ago, and is not totaly blockading Gaza contrary to propaganda since for 3 years there is not one single Jewish soldier on the 30 kilometer border between Gaza and Egypt. In return Hamas, the group which seized power from the recognized Palestinian Authority illegally in a violent civil war in which over 1000 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians, ordered launched over 10,000 rockets fired randomly at Israeli civilians, an act called a crime against humanity by none other than Amnesty International. The Secretary General of the UN declared Israel under international law was justified in taking action to protect its civilians from rocket attacks from Gaza and stated the Palestinians were committing war crimes by continuing to fire them at Israeli civilians.
But even though the war Israel made on Hamas was completely legal and justified self defence, if Israeli soldiers acted illegally towards civilians under the laws of war in certain cases like for example this particular case this girl claimed to witness, it is fair to investigated this to find out.
But not by the IKC.
When the IKC goes after the major war criminals on Earth, China, Russia, the US, Britain, etc. or even Sri Lanka, then it would be fair to investigate if Israeli soldiers acted illegaly in Gaza. Otherwise, to focus solely on Israel and ignore the vast majority of the rest of the world makes the IKC exactly what I call it, a Kangaroo court, biased against Israel, with no justice or fairness.
How unfair and unjust this is.
The International Kangaroo Court has never had a single hearing into Russia’s extermination of 1/3 the population of Chechnya a decade ago.
The IKC has never investigated China’s 60 year illegal occupation of Tibet and cultural genocide of a 5000 year old civilization including the killings and executions of thousands of protesters last year.
The IKC has never investigated the US or Britain for the illegal invasion of Iraq which has lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Even today, September 4th, 2009 comes news that over 90 Afghani civilians were killed yesterday in a US Air force bombing.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090904/D9AGHR5G0.html
And what will we hear from the IKC on this matter, of repeated US bombings of Afgan civilians under the direct approval of President Obama ? Nothing, thats what, total complete silence, just as though all the hundreds of Afghani women and babies that President Obama has already personally ordered burnt alive in US air force bombings of civilians just since January when he took office never existed and their deaths are meaningless.
Sri Lanka which murdered 10s of thousands of civilians just a few months ago, and instead of an ivestigation by this farce of a court, Sri Lanka is actualy praised for it’s actions by the IKC’s parent body the UN. In a resolution with the co-sponsorship of Indonesia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bahrain, Philippines, Cuba, Egypt, Nicaragua, and Bolivia, the UN passed a resolution in May 2009 that “Welcomes the liberation by the Government of Sri Lanka of tens of thousands of its citizens” and “Commends the measures taken by the Government of Sri Lanka to address the urgent needs of the internally displaced persons” and “Welcomes the continued cooperation between the Government of Sri Lanka and the relevant UN Agencies and other humanitarian organizations in the provision of humanitarian assistance to the affected people”
Israel, pulled out of every square centimeter of Gaza completely more than 3 years ago, removed every single last settler and soldier 3 years ago, and is not totaly blockading Gaza contrary to propaganda since for 3 years there is not one single Jewish soldier on the 30 kilometer border between Gaza and Egypt. In return Hamas, the group which seized power from the recognized Palestinian Authority illegally in a violent civil war in which over 1000 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians, ordered launched over 10,000 rockets fired randomly at Israeli civilians, an act called a crime against humanity by none other than Amnesty International. The Secretary General of the UN declared Israel under international law was justified in taking action to protect its civilians from rocket attacks from Gaza and stated the Palestinians were committing war crimes by continuing to fire them at Israeli civilians.
But even though the war Israel made on Hamas was completely legal and justified self defence, if Israeli soldiers acted illegally towards civilians under the laws of war in certain cases like for example this particular case this girl claimed to witness, it is fair to investigated this to find out.
But not by the IKC.
When the IKC goes after the major war criminals on Earth, China, Russia, the US, Britain, etc. or even Sri Lanka, then it would be fair to investigate if Israeli soldiers acted illegaly in Gaza. Otherwise, to focus solely on Israel and ignore the vast majority of the rest of the world makes the IKC exactly what I call it, a Kangaroo court, biased against Israel, with no justice or fairness.
Just to be clear, weren't 13 Israelis killed? From what I understand, there were three civilian deaths but the total was actually 13.
Just to be clear, weren’t 13 Israelis killed? From what I understand, there were three civilian deaths but the total was actually 13.
To: Ashley Wiseman
Yes, your numbers are more accurate than those used by the author of the post.
Typically these biased attacks deliberately select out death figures from only a certain period to try to present as fact the insane lie that Israel has been killing the Palestinians at a rate of 300 to 1.
I believe a fair period to look at when considering the lethality and general human rights situation of the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to look at the total numbers of victims on both sides from the last 22 years, starting in 1987, a period of time that includes the first Intifada, the suicide bus bombings on Israeli civilians of the 90's, the second Intifada and the Gaza War. Also it is necessary to differentiate between innocent civilians deliberately intensionally murdered, civilians who died accidentally during legitimate military operations, and legitimate legal military deaths of armed fighters. It is also important to differentiate between males and females, and between children and adults.
B’tselem.org, an anti-Israeli biased group provides detailed casualty figures including spreadsheets that list the name, age, date of death and circumstance of death. Bt'Selem often exaggerates, according to the Israelis, but to avoid argument I use just the figures from this anti Israeli source.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualt…
Over the last 22 years, from the start of the First Intifada in 1987 including the Second Intifada (adding the 1300 Palestinians they claim died in the Gaza War in 2009 which Bt'Selem dose not yet detail in the spreedsheet), in total:
7740 Palestinians, the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis,
1537 Israelis, the majority of them unarmed civilians, women, children and old people illegally and deliberately murdered, were killed by Palestinians..
About 1000 Palestinians were murdered by other Palestinians.
This is the total numbers killed on both sides over the last 22 years.
These numbers, biased against Israel as they are, coming from the anti Israeli source of Bt'selem, give a more accurate view of the Palestine Israel conflict and who is really committing the human rights abuses there than the phony 3 to 1300 number the author of the article above put forth with the intent to mislead.
To: Ashley Wiseman
Yes, your numbers are more accurate than those used by the author of the post.
Typically these biased attacks deliberately select out death figures from only a certain period to try to present as fact the insane lie that Israel has been killing the Palestinians at a rate of 300 to 1.
I believe a fair period to look at when considering the lethality and general human rights situation of the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to look at the total numbers of victims on both sides from the last 22 years, starting in 1987, a period of time that includes the first Intifada, the suicide bus bombings on Israeli civilians of the 90's, the second Intifada and the Gaza War. Also it is necessary to differentiate between innocent civilians deliberately intensionally murdered, civilians who died accidentally during legitimate military operations, and legitimate legal military deaths of armed fighters. It is also important to differentiate between males and females, and between children and adults.
B’tselem.org, an anti-Israeli biased group provides detailed casualty figures including spreadsheets that list the name, age, date of death and circumstance of death. Bt'Selem often exaggerates, according to the Israelis, but to avoid argument I use just the figures from this anti Israeli source.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualt…
Over the last 22 years, from the start of the First Intifada in 1987 including the Second Intifada (adding the 1300 Palestinians they claim died in the Gaza War in 2009 which Bt'Selem dose not yet detail in the spreedsheet), in total:
7740 Palestinians, the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis,
1537 Israelis, the majority of them unarmed civilians, women, children and old people illegally and deliberately murdered, were killed by Palestinians..
About 1000 Palestinians were murdered by other Palestinians.
This is the total numbers killed on both sides over the last 22 years.
These numbers, biased against Israel as they are, coming from the anti Israeli source of Bt'selem, give a more accurate view of the Palestine Israel conflict and who is really committing the human rights abuses there than the phony 3 to 1300 number the author of the article above put forth with the intent to mislead.
To: Ashley Wiseman
Yes, your numbers are more accurate than those used by the author of the post.
Typically these biased attacks deliberately select out death figures from only a certain period to try to present as fact the insane lie that Israel has been killing the Palestinians at a rate of 300 to 1.
I believe a fair period to look at when considering the lethality and general human rights situation of the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to look at the total numbers of victims on both sides from the last 22 years, starting in 1987, a period of time that includes the first Intifada, the suicide bus bombings on Israeli civilians of the 90's, the second Intifada and the Gaza War. Also it is necessary to differentiate between innocent civilians deliberately intensionally murdered, civilians who died accidentally during legitimate military operations, and legitimate legal military deaths of armed fighters. It is also important to differentiate between males and females, and between children and adults.
B’tselem.org, an anti-Israeli biased group provides detailed casualty figures including spreadsheets that list the name, age, date of death and circumstance of death. Bt'Selem often exaggerates, according to the Israelis, but to avoid argument I use just the figures from this anti Israeli source.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualt…
Over the last 22 years, from the start of the First Intifada in 1987 including the Second Intifada (adding the 1300 Palestinians they claim died in the Gaza War in 2009 which Bt'Selem dose not yet detail in the spreedsheet), in total:
7740 Palestinians, the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis,
1537 Israelis, the majority of them unarmed civilians, women, children and old people illegally and deliberately murdered, were killed by Palestinians..
About 1000 Palestinians were murdered by other Palestinians.
This is the total numbers killed on both sides over the last 22 years.
These numbers, biased against Israel as they are, coming from the anti Israeli source of Bt'selem, give a more accurate view of the Palestine Israel conflict and who is really committing the human rights abuses there than the phony 3 to 1300 number the author of the article above put forth with the intent to mislead.
To: Ashley Wiseman
Yes, your numbers are more accurate than those used by the author of the post.
Typically these biased attacks deliberately select out death figures from only a certain period to try to present as fact the insane lie that Israel has been killing the Palestinians at a rate of 300 to 1.
I believe a fair period to look at when considering the lethality and general human rights situation of the Palestinian Israeli conflict is to look at the total numbers of victims on both sides from the last 22 years, starting in 1987, a period of time that includes the first Intifada, the suicide bus bombings on Israeli civilians of the 90’s, the second Intifada and the Gaza War. Also it is necessary to differentiate between innocent civilians deliberately intensionally murdered, civilians who died accidentally during legitimate military operations, and legitimate legal military deaths of armed fighters. It is also important to differentiate between males and females, and between children and adults.
B’tselem.org, an anti-Israeli biased group provides detailed casualty figures including spreadsheets that list the name, age, date of death and circumstance of death. Bt’Selem often exaggerates, according to the Israelis, but to avoid argument I use just the figures from this anti Israeli source.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
Over the last 22 years, from the start of the First Intifada in 1987 including the Second Intifada (adding the 1300 Palestinians they claim died in the Gaza War in 2009 which Bt’Selem dose not yet detail in the spreedsheet), in total:
7740 Palestinians, the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis,
1537 Israelis, the majority of them unarmed civilians, women, children and old people illegally and deliberately murdered, were killed by Palestinians..
About 1000 Palestinians were murdered by other Palestinians.
This is the total numbers killed on both sides over the last 22 years.
These numbers, biased against Israel as they are, coming from the anti Israeli source of Bt’selem, give a more accurate view of the Palestine Israel conflict and who is really committing the human rights abuses there than the phony 3 to 1300 number the author of the article above put forth with the intent to mislead.
Judo,
You aim to distract. The Int'l Criminal Court is a fairly new body (with drafters of the Rome Statute creating the foundation required for the ICC's existence in 1998). It has taken time, but since 2003 the ICC has begun to turn legal principles into reality. Sadly there are numerous human rights violations committed and the ICC cannot possibly cover all instances all the time. But your contention that the ICC is picking on Israel is false. They have been active on working on war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide by many nations since becoming active a short six years ago.
ICC judges have issued 11 arrest warrants for suspects from Uganda, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Darfur. The prosecuter's office has investigations under way into allegations of hr violations in Colombia, Afganistan and Georgia.
You also distract by spending so much time on the number '3'. I'm not quite sure why you would think '1300 to 13' is somehow less condemning than '1300 to 3' and someone would care to deliberately manipulate that fact.
The number '3' was not pulled out of the air or from a 'certain period' of time to connotate a bogus ratio as you conclude from your own biased way of thinking. Ms. Wiseman is correct: there were three Israeli civilians killed during the Gaza offensive, but a total of 13 Israelis. The other ten Israelis killed were members of the IDF; all taking part in the offensive except one which was killed by a rocket fired into Israel by an armed Palestinian group/individual.
I think more likely it was a typo or someone entering information too fast and not going back to proofread before posting.
Also, there are too many discrepancies in your post to correct each one, but I'd like to at least note that I've not seen any report contending that Israel kills Palestinians at a rate of '300 to 1'. You're correct and this is insane. The correct ratio is closer to 4:1 or 3:1 depending on the period and/or other criteria configured.
I felt I needed to post so that anyone reading these comments would know not to take the 'facts' you provide and conclusions at face value, but follow the link you provide and do their own research to reach their own conclusions.
Your figures do not add up and statements such as "the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis" does not come from B'tselem, but looks like the conclusions of one of the IDF investigations. This is highly misleading as you make it look as if all information is from B'tselem when in actuality it comes from one party of the conflict – the government of Israel.
Also, B'tselem is a highly respected human rights organization and the information obtained and analyzed by the org is used widely, including within Israel. Also, to call it 'anti-Israel' simply because it provides data on human rights violations within the occupied Palestinian Territories is 'business as usual', but doesn't hold water. B'tselem does not make up or fabricate it's information, but backs it up with research and documentation. For instance, the casualty statistics page documents name, age, circumstances of death; the figures cited are not fabricated. Is it 'anti-Israel' to provide accurate information to the public?
I would encourage anyone interested in the statistics to go to b'tselem.org and look at the figures and the supporting details for themselves, but remember the conflict goes deeper than simple statistics, but involves real people and suffering.
I think the blog post by Zahir is just reminding us of that fact.
Edie
Regarding the source of these numbers:
These numbers come directly and ONLY from the B'tselem spreadsheets.
I posted the B'tselem spreadsheet link above.
I took these B'tselem numbers for the last 22 years since the start of the first Intifada, added up all the numbers and then added in the exaggerated 1300 Amnesty figure for the Gaza war.
I used the B'tselem numbers because YOU consider them a trustworthy verifiable source.
Note: B'tselem posts stats listing as children those under 16, although Amnesty puts it at under 18.
Edie, please download the B'tselem spreadsheets with the raw death stats yourself, break out gender and age (under 16) yourself, and if I made a major arithmetic error post it. I think these numbers and my age and gender analysis are pretty close to being correct, according to the biased anti-Israeli B'tselem data that you consider trustworthy.
Anyways, God willing there will be peace soon and the numbers we will argue about in the future will be the numbers of hospitals and schools the Palestinians will be building or desalination plants the Israelis are building or the numbers of cancer cures Israeli and Palestinian doctors will give to the world instead of these horrific death numbers. Amen and Amen.
Edie: your numbers of 3 to 1 or 4 to 1, for Israeli vs Palestinian killings.
To unbiasedly present these numbers, you have to break this down even further to
-deliberate targeted murders of civilian,
-accidental civilians casulties during war,
-soldiers killed in legaly declared armed conflict,
-gender
-age.
For example, the B'tselem stats are quite clear of this matter of gender.
Of the Israeli deaths, about 30% were deliberately and illegaly murdered female civilians.
Whereas the Palestinian deaths were less than 5% female.
Judo,
You aim to distract. The Int’l Criminal Court is a fairly new body (with drafters of the Rome Statute creating the foundation required for the ICC’s existence in 1998). It has taken time, but since 2003 the ICC has begun to turn legal principles into reality. Sadly there are numerous human rights violations committed and the ICC cannot possibly cover all instances all the time. But your contention that the ICC is picking on Israel is false. They have been active on working on war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide by many nations since becoming active a short six years ago.
ICC judges have issued 11 arrest warrants for suspects from Uganda, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Darfur. The prosecuter’s office has investigations under way into allegations of hr violations in Colombia, Afganistan and Georgia.
You also distract by spending so much time on the number ‘3’. I’m not quite sure why you would think ‘1300 to 13’ is somehow less condemning than ‘1300 to 3’ and someone would care to deliberately manipulate that fact.
The number ‘3’ was not pulled out of the air or from a ‘certain period’ of time to connotate a bogus ratio as you conclude from your own biased way of thinking. Ms. Wiseman is correct: there were three Israeli civilians killed during the Gaza offensive, but a total of 13 Israelis. The other ten Israelis killed were members of the IDF; all taking part in the offensive except one which was killed by a rocket fired into Israel by an armed Palestinian group/individual.
I think more likely it was a typo or someone entering information too fast and not going back to proofread before posting.
Also, there are too many discrepancies in your post to correct each one, but I’d like to at least note that I’ve not seen any report contending that Israel kills Palestinians at a rate of ‘300 to 1’. You’re correct and this is insane. The correct ratio is closer to 4:1 or 3:1 depending on the period and/or other criteria configured.
I felt I needed to post so that anyone reading these comments would know not to take the ‘facts’ you provide and conclusions at face value, but follow the link you provide and do their own research to reach their own conclusions.
Your figures do not add up and statements such as “the vast majority ( + 90% ) adult males, many of whom were soldiers legally killed in armed conflict, were killed by Israelis” does not come from B’tselem, but looks like the conclusions of one of the IDF investigations. This is highly misleading as you make it look as if all information is from B’tselem when in actuality it comes from one party of the conflict – the government of Israel.
Also, B’tselem is a highly respected human rights organization and the information obtained and analyzed by the org is used widely, including within Israel. Also, to call it ‘anti-Israel’ simply because it provides data on human rights violations within the occupied Palestinian Territories is ‘business as usual’, but doesn’t hold water. B’tselem does not make up or fabricate it’s information, but backs it up with research and documentation. For instance, the casualty statistics page documents name, age, circumstances of death; the figures cited are not fabricated. Is it ‘anti-Israel’ to provide accurate information to the public?
I would encourage anyone interested in the statistics to go to b’tselem.org and look at the figures and the supporting details for themselves, but remember the conflict goes deeper than simple statistics, but involves real people and suffering.
I think the blog post by Zahir is just reminding us of that fact.
Judo,
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this one: "Anyways, God willing there will be peace soon and the numbers we will argue about in the future will be the numbers of hospitals and schools the Palestinians will be building or desalination plants the Israelis are building or the numbers of cancer cures Israeli and Palestinian doctors will give to the world instead of these horrific death numbers. Amen and Amen."
Edie
Regarding the source of these numbers:
These numbers come directly and ONLY from the B’tselem spreadsheets.
I posted the B’tselem spreadsheet link above.
I took these B’tselem numbers for the last 22 years since the start of the first Intifada, added up all the numbers and then added in the exaggerated 1300 Amnesty figure for the Gaza war.
I used the B’tselem numbers because YOU consider them a trustworthy verifiable source.
Note: B’tselem posts stats listing as children those under 16, although Amnesty puts it at under 18.
Edie, please download the B’tselem spreadsheets with the raw death stats yourself, break out gender and age (under 16) yourself, and if I made a major arithmetic error post it. I think these numbers and my age and gender analysis are pretty close to being correct, according to the biased anti-Israeli B’tselem data that you consider trustworthy.
Anyways, God willing there will be peace soon and the numbers we will argue about in the future will be the numbers of hospitals and schools the Palestinians will be building or desalination plants the Israelis are building or the numbers of cancer cures Israeli and Palestinian doctors will give to the world instead of these horrific death numbers. Amen and Amen.
Edie: your numbers of 3 to 1 or 4 to 1, for Israeli vs Palestinian killings.
To unbiasedly present these numbers, you have to break this down even further to
-deliberate targeted murders of civilian,
-accidental civilians casulties during war,
-soldiers killed in legaly declared armed conflict,
-gender
-age.
For example, the B’tselem stats are quite clear of this matter of gender.
Of the Israeli deaths, about 30% were deliberately and illegaly murdered female civilians.
Whereas the Palestinian deaths were less than 5% female.
Judo,
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this one: “Anyways, God willing there will be peace soon and the numbers we will argue about in the future will be the numbers of hospitals and schools the Palestinians will be building or desalination plants the Israelis are building or the numbers of cancer cures Israeli and Palestinian doctors will give to the world instead of these horrific death numbers. Amen and Amen.”
According to B'Tselem, an anti-Israeli biased group, 1,387 Palestinians were killed during the three weeks of the Gaza War, of whom 773 were noncombatants, and 578 were armed fighters of whom 330 were members of the Hamas military, and 248 were armed members of the Hamas paramilitary police. B'tselem was unable to determine in 36 cases if they were civilians.
Israel disagrees and says 1,166 Palestinians were killed during the Gaza war, of whom 709 were Hamas combatants and 295 were civilians. It said it was unable to determine the status of the remaining 162.
Israel claims known Hamas fighters names have appeared in the Btselem casualties statistics as listed as civilian casualties.
Also, in periods of peace, according to the World Health Organization death rate statistics, an average of 400 people die every month in Gaza of completely natural causes like for example old age, and Israel claims some natural cause deaths are being used to falsely inflate Gazan civilian war death numbers.
According to B’Tselem, an anti-Israeli biased group, 1,387 Palestinians were killed during the three weeks of the Gaza War, of whom 773 were noncombatants, and 578 were armed fighters of whom 330 were members of the Hamas military, and 248 were armed members of the Hamas paramilitary police. B’tselem was unable to determine in 36 cases if they were civilians.
Israel disagrees and says 1,166 Palestinians were killed during the Gaza war, of whom 709 were Hamas combatants and 295 were civilians. It said it was unable to determine the status of the remaining 162.
Israel claims known Hamas fighters names have appeared in the Btselem casualties statistics as listed as civilian casualties.
Also, in periods of peace, according to the World Health Organization death rate statistics, an average of 400 people die every month in Gaza of completely natural causes like for example old age, and Israel claims some natural cause deaths are being used to falsely inflate Gazan civilian war death numbers.
Are you referring to the new B'tselem report that was just released which can be read at: http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/200…?
Again, the way you manipulate the information presented and use suggestive words is misleading.
B'tselem's new report does not consider members of the police force 'armed fighters' and actually put them into a separate category by themselves since they were not taking part in any hostilities. "According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation. For 36 people, B’Tselem could not determine whether they participated in the hostilities or not." is the language that was used. The term 'paramilitary' is also YOUR term, not B'tselem's term.
[Note: Police, though armed, are considered civilians under int'l law. The police operate as an arm of the municipality, not military forces. Israel considers police as Hamas since Hamas runs the municipality.]
You often present information from a respected organization, but then inject your own language or spin and don't cite it as your own making it look as if it's the conclusions or language from the cited organization. This is not only misleading, but dishonest.
It should also be noted that Israel claims a lot of things, but they don't provide the proof (such as the names of individuals killed) to back up their allegations. This is a long-standing concern of many outside organizations of GOI/IDF investigations and conclusions. You say that Israel has found individuals listed by B'tselem as civilians when they are actually 'Hamas fighters'. B'tselem asked for the data (names, etc..) from IDF investigations for cross referencing, but Israel refuses so far to release such information. If they have the proof, they should provide it.
Also, your paragraph on the WHO stats is misleading: 1) "in periods of peace" – Gaza has been under occupation for decades, has been surrounded by a patrolled fence since 2005 and blockade for over two years now so I'm not sure when there has ever been any "period of peace" in Gaza 2) "Israel claims". Again, Israel claims a lot, but needs to provide the proof to back up it's allegations. This could very well be the case, but without the proof we cannot determine whether the 'natural causes' were truly natural or brought about by lack of proper medical care due to the offensive last winter or the crushing blockade.
One could say cancer is a natural disease and so someone who dies of cancer in Gaza has died from natural causes, but it is not natural if that cancer could've been defeated with proper chemo or radiation, but the patient wasn't allowed to travel for treatment or equipment needed for treatment was destroyed during the offensive or the blockade is stopping proper equipment, medicine from being delivered.
Are you referring to the new B'tselem report that was just released which can be read at: http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/200…?
Again, the way you manipulate the information presented and use suggestive words is misleading.
B'tselem's new report does not consider members of the police force 'armed fighters' and actually put them into a separate category by themselves since they were not taking part in any hostilities. "According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation. For 36 people, B’Tselem could not determine whether they participated in the hostilities or not." is the language that was used. The term 'paramilitary' is also YOUR term, not B'tselem's term.
[Note: Police, though armed, are considered civilians under int'l law. The police operate as an arm of the municipality, not military forces. Israel considers police as Hamas since Hamas runs the municipality.]
You often present information from a respected organization, but then inject your own language or spin and don't cite it as your own making it look as if it's the conclusions or language from the cited organization. This is not only misleading, but dishonest.
It should also be noted that Israel claims a lot of things, but they don't provide the proof (such as the names of individuals killed) to back up their allegations. This is a long-standing concern of many outside organizations of GOI/IDF investigations and conclusions. You say that Israel has found individuals listed by B'tselem as civilians when they are actually 'Hamas fighters'. B'tselem asked for the data (names, etc..) from IDF investigations for cross referencing, but Israel refuses so far to release such information. If they have the proof, they should provide it.
Also, your paragraph on the WHO stats is misleading: 1) "in periods of peace" – Gaza has been under occupation for decades, has been surrounded by a patrolled fence since 2005 and blockade for over two years now so I'm not sure when there has ever been any "period of peace" in Gaza 2) "Israel claims". Again, Israel claims a lot, but needs to provide the proof to back up it's allegations. This could very well be the case, but without the proof we cannot determine whether the 'natural causes' were truly natural or brought about by lack of proper medical care due to the offensive last winter or the crushing blockade.
One could say cancer is a natural disease and so someone who dies of cancer in Gaza has died from natural causes, but it is not natural if that cancer could've been defeated with proper chemo or radiation, but the patient wasn't allowed to travel for treatment or equipment needed for treatment was destroyed during the offensive or the blockade is stopping proper equipment, medicine from being delivered.
Are you referring to the new B'tselem report that was just released which can be read at: http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/200…?
Again, the way you manipulate the information presented and use suggestive words is misleading.
B'tselem's new report does not consider members of the police force 'armed fighters' and actually put them into a separate category by themselves since they were not taking part in any hostilities. "According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation. For 36 people, B’Tselem could not determine whether they participated in the hostilities or not." is the language that was used. The term 'paramilitary' is also YOUR term, not B'tselem's term.
[Note: Police, though armed, are considered civilians under int'l law. The police operate as an arm of the municipality, not military forces. Israel considers police as Hamas since Hamas runs the municipality.]
You often present information from a respected organization, but then inject your own language or spin and don't cite it as your own making it look as if it's the conclusions or language from the cited organization. This is not only misleading, but dishonest.
It should also be noted that Israel claims a lot of things, but they don't provide the proof (such as the names of individuals killed) to back up their allegations. This is a long-standing concern of many outside organizations of GOI/IDF investigations and conclusions. You say that Israel has found individuals listed by B'tselem as civilians when they are actually 'Hamas fighters'. B'tselem asked for the data (names, etc..) from IDF investigations for cross referencing, but Israel refuses so far to release such information. If they have the proof, they should provide it.
Also, your paragraph on the WHO stats is misleading: 1) "in periods of peace" – Gaza has been under occupation for decades, has been surrounded by a patrolled fence since 2005 and blockade for over two years now so I'm not sure when there has ever been any "period of peace" in Gaza 2) "Israel claims". Again, Israel claims a lot, but needs to provide the proof to back up it's allegations. This could very well be the case, but without the proof we cannot determine whether the 'natural causes' were truly natural or brought about by lack of proper medical care due to the offensive last winter or the crushing blockade.
One could say cancer is a natural disease and so someone who dies of cancer in Gaza has died from natural causes, but it is not natural if that cancer could've been defeated with proper chemo or radiation, but the patient wasn't allowed to travel for treatment or equipment needed for treatment was destroyed during the offensive or the blockade is stopping proper equipment, medicine from being delivered.
Edie, is the UN Secretariat a good enough verifiable source for you.
Source: Population Division of the Department of Economic and Social Affairs of the United Nations Secretariat,
World Population Prospects: The 2008 Revision http://esa.un.org/unpp
Occupied Palestinian Territory
Crude death rate (deaths per 1,000 population)
Medium variant
2005-2010
Period Crude death rate
2005-2010 3.7
This means that for the 1.5 million residents of Gaza, the rate of civilian death by natural causes during the Gaza War, from December 27 till January 18, 2009, would be exactly 347 persons.
As I understand it, Israel is claiming that at least some of these 347 deaths by natural causes that statistics show would have occured anyways during the time period of the war, were added to the Bt'selem civilian casulty list.
On a completely different and far more pleasant subject, life not death, what the extremely low, unbelievably astonishingly low death rate of 3.7 per 1000 that the occupied Palestinians enjoy proves is that for all the anti Israeli propaganda, the Palestinian annual death rates by natural causes are the lowest on earth, much lower than West European, American or Israeli rates for example.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-worl…
This really proves better than anything else how big a propaganda lie it is to claim that Israel has interfered contrary to international humanitarian law with the Palestinian population's access to adequate food supplies, clean water, electricity, or medicine.
Obviously, if Israel really were restricting any life critical goods to the point of causing a true shortage as the anti Israeli propaganda lies falsely claim it does, the death rate would not be so low, certainly not the absolute lowest on Earth, which the Palestinian death rate, as a matter of fact, is.
Edie, is the UN Secretariat a good enough verifiable source for you.
Source: Population Division of the Department of Economic and Social Affairs of the United Nations Secretariat,
World Population Prospects: The 2008 Revision http://esa.un.org/unpp
Occupied Palestinian Territory
Crude death rate (deaths per 1,000 population)
Medium variant
2005-2010
Period Crude death rate
2005-2010 3.7
This means that for the 1.5 million residents of Gaza, the rate of civilian death by natural causes during the Gaza War, from December 27 till January 18, 2009, would be exactly 347 persons.
As I understand it, Israel is claiming that at least some of these 347 deaths by natural causes that statistics show would have occured anyways during the time period of the war, were added to the Bt'selem civilian casulty list.
On a completely different and far more pleasant subject, life not death, what the extremely low, unbelievably astonishingly low death rate of 3.7 per 1000 that the occupied Palestinians enjoy proves is that for all the anti Israeli propaganda, the Palestinian annual death rates by natural causes are the lowest on earth, much lower than West European, American or Israeli rates for example.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-worl…
This really proves better than anything else how big a propaganda lie it is to claim that Israel has interfered contrary to international humanitarian law with the Palestinian population's access to adequate food supplies, clean water, electricity, or medicine.
Obviously, if Israel really were restricting any life critical goods to the point of causing a true shortage as the anti Israeli propaganda lies falsely claim it does, the death rate would not be so low, certainly not the absolute lowest on Earth, which the Palestinian death rate, as a matter of fact, is.
Edie, is the UN Secretariat a good enough verifiable source for you.
Source: Population Division of the Department of Economic and Social Affairs of the United Nations Secretariat,
World Population Prospects: The 2008 Revision http://esa.un.org/unpp
Occupied Palestinian Territory
Crude death rate (deaths per 1,000 population)
Medium variant
2005-2010
Period Crude death rate
2005-2010 3.7
This means that for the 1.5 million residents of Gaza, the rate of civilian death by natural causes during the Gaza War, from December 27 till January 18, 2009, would be exactly 347 persons.
As I understand it, Israel is claiming that at least some of these 347 deaths by natural causes that statistics show would have occured anyways during the time period of the war, were added to the Bt'selem civilian casulty list.
On a completely different and far more pleasant subject, life not death, what the extremely low, unbelievably astonishingly low death rate of 3.7 per 1000 that the occupied Palestinians enjoy proves is that for all the anti Israeli propaganda, the Palestinian annual death rates by natural causes are the lowest on earth, much lower than West European, American or Israeli rates for example.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-worl…
This really proves better than anything else how big a propaganda lie it is to claim that Israel has interfered contrary to international humanitarian law with the Palestinian population's access to adequate food supplies, clean water, electricity, or medicine.
Obviously, if Israel really were restricting any life critical goods to the point of causing a true shortage as the anti Israeli propaganda lies falsely claim it does, the death rate would not be so low, certainly not the absolute lowest on Earth, which the Palestinian death rate, as a matter of fact, is.
Are you referring to the new B’tselem report that was just released which can be read at: http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/20090909.asp?
Again, the way you manipulate the information presented and use suggestive words is misleading.
B’tselem’s new report does not consider members of the police force ‘armed fighters’ and actually put them into a separate category by themselves since they were not taking part in any hostilities. “According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation. For 36 people, B’Tselem could not determine whether they participated in the hostilities or not.” is the language that was used. The term ‘paramilitary’ is also YOUR term, not B’tselem’s term.
[Note: Police, though armed, are considered civilians under int’l law. The police operate as an arm of the municipality, not military forces. Israel considers police as Hamas since Hamas runs the municipality.]
You often present information from a respected organization, but then inject your own language or spin and don’t cite it as your own making it look as if it’s the conclusions or language from the cited organization. This is not only misleading, but dishonest.
It should also be noted that Israel claims a lot of things, but they don’t provide the proof (such as the names of individuals killed) to back up their allegations. This is a long-standing concern of many outside organizations of GOI/IDF investigations and conclusions. You say that Israel has found individuals listed by B’tselem as civilians when they are actually ‘Hamas fighters’. B’tselem asked for the data (names, etc..) from IDF investigations for cross referencing, but Israel refuses so far to release such information. If they have the proof, they should provide it.
Also, your paragraph on the WHO stats is misleading: 1) “in periods of peace” – Gaza has been under occupation for decades, has been surrounded by a patrolled fence since 2005 and blockade for over two years now so I’m not sure when there has ever been any “period of peace” in Gaza 2) “Israel claims”. Again, Israel claims a lot, but needs to provide the proof to back up it’s allegations. This could very well be the case, but without the proof we cannot determine whether the ‘natural causes’ were truly natural or brought about by lack of proper medical care due to the offensive last winter or the crushing blockade.
One could say cancer is a natural disease and so someone who dies of cancer in Gaza has died from natural causes, but it is not natural if that cancer could’ve been defeated with proper chemo or radiation, but the patient wasn’t allowed to travel for treatment or equipment needed for treatment was destroyed during the offensive or the blockade is stopping proper equipment, medicine from being delivered.
Edie, is the UN Secretariat a good enough verifiable source for you.
Source: Population Division of the Department of Economic and Social Affairs of the United Nations Secretariat,
World Population Prospects: The 2008 Revision
http://esa.un.org/unpp
Occupied Palestinian Territory
Crude death rate (deaths per 1,000 population)
Medium variant
2005-2010
Period Crude death rate
2005-2010 3.7
This means that for the 1.5 million residents of Gaza, the rate of civilian death by natural causes during the Gaza War, from December 27 till January 18, 2009, would be exactly 347 persons.
As I understand it, Israel is claiming that at least some of these 347 deaths by natural causes that statistics show would have occured anyways during the time period of the war, were added to the Bt’selem civilian casulty list.
On a completely different and far more pleasant subject, life not death, what the extremely low, unbelievably astonishingly low death rate of 3.7 per 1000 that the occupied Palestinians enjoy proves is that for all the anti Israeli propaganda, the Palestinian annual death rates by natural causes are the lowest on earth, much lower than West European, American or Israeli rates for example.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html
This really proves better than anything else how big a propaganda lie it is to claim that Israel has interfered contrary to international humanitarian law with the Palestinian population’s access to adequate food supplies, clean water, electricity, or medicine.
Obviously, if Israel really were restricting any life critical goods to the point of causing a true shortage as the anti Israeli propaganda lies falsely claim it does, the death rate would not be so low, certainly not the absolute lowest on Earth, which the Palestinian death rate, as a matter of fact, is.
My concern is not with the sources you use Judo, it's in the presentation of the information; the spin.
You would have this blog's readers believe Gaza is a veritable paradise. Dang – we should all move there if they have the death rate there is the "lowest on Earth". They must be surviving on manna from heaven, because they sure aren't surviving on adequate amounts of clean drinking water [ http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=3192… or on a balanced diet [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html].
I also think these independent humanitarian agencies would disagree with your assessment of the altruistic blockade on the people of Gaza:
Action Against Hunger
Acsur-Las Segovias
Agency for Technical Cooperation and Development (ACTED)
American Friends of UNRWA
American Near East Refugee Aid
Asamblea de Cooperacion Por la Paz
Austcare
Biladi
CARE
Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions
DanChurchAid
Defense for Children International
Enfants du Monde-Droits de l'Homme
International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy – Canada
Italian Consortium of Solidarity (ICS)
Japan International Volunteer Centre
Life Source
Medecins du Monde France
Medecins du Monde Spain
Medecins du Monde Switzerland
Medical Aid for Palestinians
Movement for Peace
Mujeres por la Paz y Acción Solidaria de Palestina
Norwegian People's Aid
Norwegian Refugee Council
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Oxfam International
Paz Ahora
Peace and Solidarity Haydée Santamaría, Cultural Asociation
Premiere Urgence
Relief International
Spanish Committee of UNHCR
Spanish Committee of UNRWA
Swedish Organization for Individual Relief
Terre des Hommes Italy
United Nations Development Fund for Women
United Nations Relief and Works Agency
War Child Holland
World Vision International
[http://www.care.org/newsroom/articles/2009/06/gaza-blockade-westbank-palestine-20090617.asp]
You are correct in that the bombing of Gaza last winter isn't to blame for all the deaths in Gaza and the abysmal situation there. There was a humanitarian crisis in Gaza long before the bombardment as outlined in this report 'The Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion" written a year before the bombardment in March 2008 by Oxfam, CARE International, Christian Aid, CAFOD, Save the Children – UK, Medecins due Monde – UK, TroCAIRE and Amnesty International. [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/downloads/gaza_implosion.pdf]
My concern is not with the sources you use Judo, it's in the presentation of the information; the spin.
You would have this blog's readers believe Gaza is a veritable paradise. Dang – we should all move there if they have the death rate there is the "lowest on Earth". They must be surviving on manna from heaven, because they sure aren't surviving on adequate amounts of clean drinking water [ http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=3192… or on a balanced diet [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html].
I also think these independent humanitarian agencies would disagree with your assessment of the altruistic blockade on the people of Gaza:
Action Against Hunger
Acsur-Las Segovias
Agency for Technical Cooperation and Development (ACTED)
American Friends of UNRWA
American Near East Refugee Aid
Asamblea de Cooperacion Por la Paz
Austcare
Biladi
CARE
Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions
DanChurchAid
Defense for Children International
Enfants du Monde-Droits de l'Homme
International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy – Canada
Italian Consortium of Solidarity (ICS)
Japan International Volunteer Centre
Life Source
Medecins du Monde France
Medecins du Monde Spain
Medecins du Monde Switzerland
Medical Aid for Palestinians
Movement for Peace
Mujeres por la Paz y Acción Solidaria de Palestina
Norwegian People's Aid
Norwegian Refugee Council
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Oxfam International
Paz Ahora
Peace and Solidarity Haydée Santamaría, Cultural Asociation
Premiere Urgence
Relief International
Spanish Committee of UNHCR
Spanish Committee of UNRWA
Swedish Organization for Individual Relief
Terre des Hommes Italy
United Nations Development Fund for Women
United Nations Relief and Works Agency
War Child Holland
World Vision International
[http://www.care.org/newsroom/articles/2009/06/gaza-blockade-westbank-palestine-20090617.asp]
You are correct in that the bombing of Gaza last winter isn't to blame for all the deaths in Gaza and the abysmal situation there. There was a humanitarian crisis in Gaza long before the bombardment as outlined in this report 'The Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion" written a year before the bombardment in March 2008 by Oxfam, CARE International, Christian Aid, CAFOD, Save the Children – UK, Medecins due Monde – UK, TroCAIRE and Amnesty International. [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/downloads/gaza_implosion.pdf]
My concern is not with the sources you use Judo, it's in the presentation of the information; the spin.
You would have this blog's readers believe Gaza is a veritable paradise. Dang – we should all move there if they have the death rate there is the "lowest on Earth". They must be surviving on manna from heaven, because they sure aren't surviving on adequate amounts of clean drinking water [ http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=3192… or on a balanced diet [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html].
I also think these independent humanitarian agencies would disagree with your assessment of the altruistic blockade on the people of Gaza:
Action Against Hunger
Acsur-Las Segovias
Agency for Technical Cooperation and Development (ACTED)
American Friends of UNRWA
American Near East Refugee Aid
Asamblea de Cooperacion Por la Paz
Austcare
Biladi
CARE
Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions
DanChurchAid
Defense for Children International
Enfants du Monde-Droits de l'Homme
International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy – Canada
Italian Consortium of Solidarity (ICS)
Japan International Volunteer Centre
Life Source
Medecins du Monde France
Medecins du Monde Spain
Medecins du Monde Switzerland
Medical Aid for Palestinians
Movement for Peace
Mujeres por la Paz y Acción Solidaria de Palestina
Norwegian People's Aid
Norwegian Refugee Council
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Oxfam International
Paz Ahora
Peace and Solidarity Haydée Santamaría, Cultural Asociation
Premiere Urgence
Relief International
Spanish Committee of UNHCR
Spanish Committee of UNRWA
Swedish Organization for Individual Relief
Terre des Hommes Italy
United Nations Development Fund for Women
United Nations Relief and Works Agency
War Child Holland
World Vision International
[http://www.care.org/newsroom/articles/2009/06/gaza-blockade-westbank-palestine-20090617.asp]
You are correct in that the bombing of Gaza last winter isn't to blame for all the deaths in Gaza and the abysmal situation there. There was a humanitarian crisis in Gaza long before the bombardment as outlined in this report 'The Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion" written a year before the bombardment in March 2008 by Oxfam, CARE International, Christian Aid, CAFOD, Save the Children – UK, Medecins due Monde – UK, TroCAIRE and Amnesty International. [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/downloads/gaza_implosion.pdf]
My concern is not with the sources you use Judo, it’s in the presentation of the information; the spin.
You would have this blog’s readers believe Gaza is a veritable paradise. Dang – we should all move there if they have the death rate there is the “lowest on Earth”. They must be surviving on manna from heaven, because they sure aren’t surviving on adequate amounts of clean drinking water [ http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=31927&Cr=Gaza&Cr1%5D or on a balanced diet [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html].
I also think these independent humanitarian agencies would disagree with your assessment of the altruistic blockade on the people of Gaza:
Action Against Hunger
Acsur-Las Segovias
Agency for Technical Cooperation and Development (ACTED)
American Friends of UNRWA
American Near East Refugee Aid
Asamblea de Cooperacion Por la Paz
Austcare
Biladi
CARE
Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions
DanChurchAid
Defense for Children International
Enfants du Monde-Droits de l’Homme
International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy – Canada
Italian Consortium of Solidarity (ICS)
Japan International Volunteer Centre
Life Source
Medecins du Monde France
Medecins du Monde Spain
Medecins du Monde Switzerland
Medical Aid for Palestinians
Movement for Peace
Mujeres por la Paz y Acción Solidaria de Palestina
Norwegian People’s Aid
Norwegian Refugee Council
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Oxfam International
Paz Ahora
Peace and Solidarity Haydée Santamaría, Cultural Asociation
Premiere Urgence
Relief International
Spanish Committee of UNHCR
Spanish Committee of UNRWA
Swedish Organization for Individual Relief
Terre des Hommes Italy
United Nations Development Fund for Women
United Nations Relief and Works Agency
War Child Holland
World Vision International
[http://www.care.org/newsroom/articles/2009/06/gaza-blockade-westbank-palestine-20090617.asp]
You are correct in that the bombing of Gaza last winter isn’t to blame for all the deaths in Gaza and the abysmal situation there. There was a humanitarian crisis in Gaza long before the bombardment as outlined in this report ‘The Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion” written a year before the bombardment in March 2008 by Oxfam, CARE International, Christian Aid, CAFOD, Save the Children – UK, Medecins due Monde – UK, TroCAIRE and Amnesty International. [http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/downloads/gaza_implosion.pdf]
I never said anything about paradise or any nonsense like that. You accuse me of changing language yet you put words in my mouth.
I just stated the unarguable fact, that I notice you nowhere try to deny, that the death rate for Gaza is not just low, but LOWEST ON EARTH, according to the United Nations. This is a fact that you do not anywhere deny.
You can write long lists of aid groups till the cows come home.
It will not alter the numbers in the UN population data base show the Occupied Territories have the lowest death rates on earth.
I am not saying life is a bowl of cherries in Palestine.
All I am asking is this: Please explain to me:
How Palestine could be a “humanitarian disaster” as your overblown rhetoric claims with the lowest death rate on earth?
Pretty weird kind of “humanitarian disaster” isn't is. I mean, don't people normally die in those things? Wouldn't the death rate tend to go up, not down to the LOWEST ON EARTH ?
By the way, UNICEF just came out with a major report yesterday on infant mortality and death rates under 5 years old, and guess what Edie?
Amazingly enough, according to Palestine has lower infant mortality and deaths under 5 rate than every single country in Africa except Libya, every country in Asia except China, Japan, Singapore and Malaysia, and lower even than almost all Arab countries.
How is that Edie? Please explain it to me because I am really having a hard time understanding how you can claim a "humanitarian disaster" is occurring in a place that not only has the lowest death rate on earth, and also has the lowest infant and child mortality rates in the developing world ?
Edie
According to the UN, Department of Economic and Social Affairs • Population Division http://www.un.org/esa/population/unpop.htm
and UNICEF http://www.unicef.org/media/media_51087.html
For example, 16.7 percent of children in sub-Saharan Africa will die before the age of 5 years.
but for Occupied Palestine only 2.0 percent of children will die before age 5.
This rate for Palestine is, by the way a child mortality rate lower than almost the countries of Asia, Africa, and South America except for Libya, China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand and Argentina, plus a few of the very richest Arab countries, and maybe one or two others.
Look up the numbers yourself from the UN if you don't belive me.
Not to say life is great in Gaza, but how can you seriously claim that a population that has a lower child mortality rate than say for example Russia ( 3.5 % die before age 5 there) is having a "humanitarian disaster".
Aren't you ashamed of yourself to use such ridiculously indefensible exaggeration ?
Edie
According to the UN, Department of Economic and Social Affairs • Population Division http://www.un.org/esa/population/unpop.htm
and UNICEF http://www.unicef.org/media/media_51087.html
For example, 16.7 percent of children in sub-Saharan Africa will die before the age of 5 years.
but for Occupied Palestine only 2.0 percent of children will die before age 5.
This rate for Palestine is, by the way a child mortality rate lower than almost the countries of Asia, Africa, and South America except for Libya, China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand and Argentina, plus a few of the very richest Arab countries, and maybe one or two others.
Look up the numbers yourself from the UN if you don't belive me.
Not to say life is great in Gaza, but how can you seriously claim that a population that has a lower child mortality rate than say for example Russia ( 3.5 % die before age 5 there) is having a "humanitarian disaster".
Aren't you ashamed of yourself to use such ridiculously indefensible exaggeration ?
Edie
According to the UN, Department of Economic and Social Affairs • Population Division http://www.un.org/esa/population/unpop.htm
and UNICEF http://www.unicef.org/media/media_51087.html
For example, 16.7 percent of children in sub-Saharan Africa will die before the age of 5 years.
but for Occupied Palestine only 2.0 percent of children will die before age 5.
This rate for Palestine is, by the way a child mortality rate lower than almost the countries of Asia, Africa, and South America except for Libya, China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand and Argentina, plus a few of the very richest Arab countries, and maybe one or two others.
Look up the numbers yourself from the UN if you don't belive me.
Not to say life is great in Gaza, but how can you seriously claim that a population that has a lower child mortality rate than say for example Russia ( 3.5 % die before age 5 there) is having a "humanitarian disaster".
Aren't you ashamed of yourself to use such ridiculously indefensible exaggeration ?
I never said anything about paradise or any nonsense like that. You accuse me of changing language yet you put words in my mouth.
I just stated the unarguable fact, that I notice you nowhere try to deny, that the death rate for Gaza is not just low, but LOWEST ON EARTH, according to the United Nations. This is a fact that you do not anywhere deny.
You can write long lists of aid groups till the cows come home.
It will not alter the numbers in the UN population data base show the Occupied Territories have the lowest death rates on earth.
I am not saying life is a bowl of cherries in Palestine.
All I am asking is this: Please explain to me:
How Palestine could be a “humanitarian disaster” as your overblown rhetoric claims with the lowest death rate on earth?
Pretty weird kind of “humanitarian disaster” isn’t is. I mean, don’t people normally die in those things? Wouldn’t the death rate tend to go up, not down to the LOWEST ON EARTH ?
By the way, UNICEF just came out with a major report yesterday on infant mortality and death rates under 5 years old, and guess what Edie?
Amazingly enough, according to Palestine has lower infant mortality and deaths under 5 rate than every single country in Africa except Libya, every country in Asia except China, Japan, Singapore and Malaysia, and lower even than almost all Arab countries.
How is that Edie? Please explain it to me because I am really having a hard time understanding how you can claim a “humanitarian disaster” is occurring in a place that not only has the lowest death rate on earth, and also has the lowest infant and child mortality rates in the developing world ?
Edie
According to the UN, Department of Economic and Social Affairs • Population Division
http://www.un.org/esa/population/unpop.htm
and UNICEF
http://www.unicef.org/media/media_51087.html
For example, 16.7 percent of children in sub-Saharan Africa will die before the age of 5 years.
but for Occupied Palestine only 2.0 percent of children will die before age 5.
This rate for Palestine is, by the way a child mortality rate lower than almost the countries of Asia, Africa, and South America except for Libya, China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand and Argentina, plus a few of the very richest Arab countries, and maybe one or two others.
Look up the numbers yourself from the UN if you don’t belive me.
Not to say life is great in Gaza, but how can you seriously claim that a population that has a lower child mortality rate than say for example Russia ( 3.5 % die before age 5 there) is having a “humanitarian disaster”.
Aren’t you ashamed of yourself to use such ridiculously indefensible exaggeration ?
Still waiting for your response, Edie…….
How can the Palestinians be experiencing a "humanitarian disaster" if they have one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the third world, a full 20 times lower than the Democratic Republic of Congo's infant mortality, for example, according to the UN.
According to UNICEF's major report on infant mortality released last week, 65 counties on earth have an under 5 year old child mortality rates above 40 per 1000. And some like the Democratic Republic of Congo have far far higher rates.
But Occupied Palestine has a rate of under 5 year old child mortality rates of 18 per 1000, better than most other Arab counties even.
So wouldn't you expect a place experiencing a “humanitarian disaster” as you put it to have a high infant mortality rate, and not one of the lowest in the third world, lower than many other Arab countries, as the Occupied Palestinians in fact have have?
Still waiting for your response, Edie…….
How can the Palestinians be experiencing a “humanitarian disaster” if they have one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the third world, a full 20 times lower than the Democratic Republic of Congo’s infant mortality, for example, according to the UN.
According to UNICEF’s major report on infant mortality released last week, 65 counties on earth have an under 5 year old child mortality rates above 40 per 1000. And some like the Democratic Republic of Congo have far far higher rates.
But Occupied Palestine has a rate of under 5 year old child mortality rates of 18 per 1000, better than most other Arab counties even.
So wouldn’t you expect a place experiencing a “humanitarian disaster” as you put it to have a high infant mortality rate, and not one of the lowest in the third world, lower than many other Arab countries, as the Occupied Palestinians in fact have have?
@Judo Nimh – please pose your questions and comments to the entire group. Our bloggers and staff commentors contribute to the conservation by providing additional resources and follow-up information. They also help focus community discussions. They cannot answer all questions and will not participate in back-and-forth debates.
@Judo Nimh – please pose your questions and comments to the entire group. Our bloggers and staff commentors contribute to the conservation by providing additional resources and follow-up information. They also help focus community discussions. They cannot answer all questions and will not participate in back-and-forth debates.