Protests Against Indian Rule in Kashmir - copyright Majid Pandit, used by permission
Take action to free 14-year old boy from jail in Kashmir
US President Barack Obama hailed the total awesomeness of India during his state visit to the country last week. While it certainly didn’t cost the $200 million per day that the tabloids in the US and India made up, it was certainly worth its weight in lofty rhetoric except in the realm of human rights. Not only did he NOT mention any human rights concerns that the US ought to have regarding India (nor did India mention any human rights concerns that India ought to have about the US), he also went out of his way to extol India’s place on the center stage (including when he was talking about the human rights situation in Burma). As if to highlight all the bling that India has to offer (and boy does it have the bling), he dragged (kicking and screaming presumably since Obama’s opponents allege that he is anti-business) 200 business executives to ink various weapons deals mainly to pump up American Empire’s gigantic military-industrial complex on the backs of the 380 million Indians still living on $1 per day (more than the entire population of the United States). What better way to end malnutrition than to have really awesome chest-thumping parades in New Delhi with all that fancy weaponry! Yummy, tanks.
Indian security forces are already pretty well armed as far as I can tell and probably don’t need all those weapons. They have a few lakh security forces in the Kashmir Valley armed to the teeth and killing protesters. Although news about Kashmir has quieted down somewhat due to various factors (the news media in India got bored, it’s getting cold, the histrionics over Arundhati Roy), it’s not altogether clear what motivations Kashmiris have to keep quiet over what seems to them (and many Indians) as an occupation.
Now, I know I’m sounding a bit cynical and sarcastic here (people who know me say that’s normal). Human rights activists are supposed to be idealistic and hopeful in their demand for justice for all victims of human rights. But, then I hear about this and I saw all the coverage of Obama’s trip to India and my hopefulness dissipates a bit. That link by the way, is an action on Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh, a 14-year old boy accused of throwing some rocks at police in Srinagar, the capital of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. Now, you’re probably thinking, OK, he is accused of throwing rocks and throwing rocks is not good, so he must be charged with something, right? Nope. He has not only NOT been charged with any crime, but he is being held in a jail built for adults. I really think that Meera Shankar, India’s Ambassador in Washington should hear about this illegal detention of a child, which is why I’m asking you to click on the link and take action to ensure that Mushtaq’s detention is in line with Indian law and with India’s treaty obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Please help Mushtaq and help me get some of my idealism back.
Obama and his staff have been disapointing to me as far as humane rights go; but the republicans do much worse
dear amnesty international kindly fill in the error.this report is just 1 side of the coin.the boy you have mentioned here is a stonepelter so much so that he alongwith other stonepelters have paralysed the state machinery for last 6 months now.these people have injured scores of civil population.they have broken countless vehilcle panes,set buildings on fire,and above all they have not been allowing the people to come out and do their daily bussiness.many people have left kashmir in search of jobs outside..is this fair.do you think they should be allowed to do that..kindly dont help these people to ruin our state.infact you should help the common kashmiri in his struggle of survival..these people and their activities have made us poorer than ever
Obama and his staff have been disapointing to me as far as humane rights go; but the republicans do much worse
Asma: Its not just your life and livelihood, why on earth would anyone risk their lives and leave their jobs / business and go for stone pelting. Havent you seen the kashmiri women also particpating in stone pelting. Army has raped a 70 year old woman in sopore who died after 2 days because of the shock and also didnt spare a 6 year old girl who was raped and died instantly as her internal organs burst. They have killed and 6 week boy in nowhatta who was shot in the neck. They have taken 12 years old as prisoners and have reported their age as 18 years, so that they can avoid unnecessary hassles because of the domestic human rights organisations. First i doubt your kashmiri credentials. Even if you are a kashmiri, you seem to be one of the chinless activist / clan of the ruling facist organisation or some agent hidding behind those brutal and inhuman cops/paramilitary. In fact its not the being kashmiri or non-kashmiri, or for that matter being muslim or any non muslim. You just need to have a heart and be human not a selfish and chinless beast. I am not going to speak any further about the atrocities and the brutalities of the so called "security forces" as u already seem to be acqaunted with resources available on the net. You just need some self introspection and not information. I would like to appreciate the mainstream media and educated class in india who have have been forthcoming in sympathising with the sufferers. I know about the doctors who have been treating the kashmiri kids who have been shot pallets, bursting their eyes. Anyway, it is just a request to open your heart and eyes to the truth. Nothing lives forever, just truth lives. May Almighty bless you with a good soul.
@asma: Well, I doubt you know anything about the "common kashmiri". You started worrying about them (or rather for yourself) only when the newspapers started reporting about them throwing the stones. You should read about the decades of exploitation that never made to the headlines, and more importantly first listen to the common Kashmiries (not from the mouth of the Indian politicians) before concluding (or making up) statements about what common Kashmiris want. For decades the Indian government has not only neglected Kashmir, it has unjustly imposed an almost military rule on the civilians. To top that, the Indian armed forces has kept on exploiting the common people by making illegal use of controversial laws, to which the ineffective Indian judiciary system has turned a blind eye. When the common people spoke out, the corrupt & inefficient government posed deaf, and let the corruption and exploitation continue. Finally, when the common people were angry, the government and people like you called them terrorists. The legacy of exploitation still continues as we can read from the article. Please don't try to justify exploitation and filthy laws just because you want to hide your feelings of guilt for being part of a system that is corrupt, unjust and inefficient.
dear amnesty international kindly fill in the error.this report is just 1 side of the coin.the boy you have mentioned here is a stonepelter so much so that he alongwith other stonepelters have paralysed the state machinery for last 6 months now.these people have injured scores of civil population.they have broken countless vehilcle panes,set buildings on fire,and above all they have not been allowing the people to come out and do their daily bussiness.many people have left kashmir in search of jobs outside..is this fair.do you think they should be allowed to do that..kindly dont help these people to ruin our state.infact you should help the common kashmiri in his struggle of survival..these people and their activities have made us poorer than ever
@asma The argument is one of arrest of a minor. He is being held inappropriately in an adult prison, and he has not at this stage been charged with an offence. Simply solved: move him to a juvenile centre and charge him. If guilty he should serve his sentence. Detaining people without charge is morally indefensible.
Asma: Its not just your life and livelihood, why on earth would anyone risk their lives and leave their jobs / business and go for stone pelting. Havent you seen the kashmiri women also particpating in stone pelting. Army has raped a 70 year old woman in sopore who died after 2 days because of the shock and also didnt spare a 6 year old girl who was raped and died instantly as her internal organs burst. They have killed and 6 week boy in nowhatta who was shot in the neck. They have taken 12 years old as prisoners and have reported their age as 18 years, so that they can avoid unnecessary hassles because of the domestic human rights organisations. First i doubt your kashmiri credentials. Even if you are a kashmiri, you seem to be one of the chinless activist / clan of the ruling facist organisation or some agent hidding behind those brutal and inhuman cops/paramilitary. In fact its not the being kashmiri or non-kashmiri, or for that matter being muslim or any non muslim. You just need to have a heart and be human not a selfish and chinless beast. I am not going to speak any further about the atrocities and the brutalities of the so called “security forces” as u already seem to be acqaunted with resources available on the net. You just need some self introspection and not information. I would like to appreciate the mainstream media and educated class in india who have have been forthcoming in sympathising with the sufferers. I know about the doctors who have been treating the kashmiri kids who have been shot pallets, bursting their eyes. Anyway, it is just a request to open your heart and eyes to the truth. Nothing lives forever, just truth lives. May Almighty bless you with a good soul.
@asma: Well, I doubt you know anything about the “common kashmiri”. You started worrying about them (or rather for yourself) only when the newspapers started reporting about them throwing the stones. You should read about the decades of exploitation that never made to the headlines, and more importantly first listen to the common Kashmiries (not from the mouth of the Indian politicians) before concluding (or making up) statements about what common Kashmiris want. For decades the Indian government has not only neglected Kashmir, it has unjustly imposed an almost military rule on the civilians. To top that, the Indian armed forces has kept on exploiting the common people by making illegal use of controversial laws, to which the ineffective Indian judiciary system has turned a blind eye. When the common people spoke out, the corrupt & inefficient government posed deaf, and let the corruption and exploitation continue. Finally, when the common people were angry, the government and people like you called them terrorists. The legacy of exploitation still continues as we can read from the article. Please don’t try to justify exploitation and filthy laws just because you want to hide your feelings of guilt for being part of a system that is corrupt, unjust and inefficient.
I'm glad AI has finally woken up to the issue of human rights abuses in Kashmir (after, about 18 years) but still gets the terminology wrong: the UN identifies it as "Indian-administered Kashmir" NOT "the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir". Why is AI so anxious to defend the Indian's state's control over a disputed territory?
Also, there are thousands of Kashmiri political prisoners, many of them children, human rights lawyers, political opponents of Indian rule – please don't imagine that by naming just one prisoner AI has fulfilled its obligations to hold India accountable for its horrific reign of terror in Kashmir
@asma The argument is one of arrest of a minor. He is being held inappropriately in an adult prison, and he has not at this stage been charged with an offence. Simply solved: move him to a juvenile centre and charge him. If guilty he should serve his sentence. Detaining people without charge is morally indefensible.
@asma: Others have said it, but I would reiterate– if Mushtaq committed a crime, he should be charged and treated *in accordance with Indian law*. The last part of what I said is the most important. The child is being held in violation of the law.
@ekajanabi: India considers it a state and whether that status is going to change is up to the people of J&K and India. As to whether AI has done enough, the answer is always NO until all human rights are protected all over the world.
You can have a look at this transcript of a chat I did recently on Kashmir where I explained that I use the various terms for Kashmir interchangeably: http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/india/twi…
While the visit, and the entire trip for that matter, was primarily about economic concerns, which explains why the two parties were hesitant to talk about such issues that weren't on the agenda that may threaten the atmosphere, I really think such mentions should have been made AFTER the matters on the agenda were put through.
If the two countries are to help each other learn to improve their human rights agenda, they must insure that their economic relationship is mutually beneficial, otherwise there is no motivation for such talks. However, to put off such discussions for the purpose of a stable, mutually beneficial economic relationship, defeats one of the major purposes of such a relationship.
In deals with China, during the late 1990s the US government put human rights contingencies in the agreements. This led to some reform on the part of China, and an improved relationship. Over the last decade such contingency clauses have altogether stopped. As a result, our political relationship with China has been strained to the point that it is now threatening our economic relationship.
We cannot have an economic relationship with a nation without having a geopolitical relationship, nor can we have a successful geopolitical relationship without an economic one. While I do praise Obama for some negotiation of trade reform with India, I am highly disappointed that he fails to see the importance of keeping the air of geopolitical issues between the two nations open, even when it could present risk to the current issues at hand.
@asma: Others have said it, but I would reiterate– if Mushtaq committed a crime, he should be charged and treated *in accordance with Indian law*. The last part of what I said is the most important. The child is being held in violation of the law.
@ekajanabi: India considers it a state and whether that status is going to change is up to the people of J&K and India. As to whether AI has done enough, the answer is always NO until all human rights are protected all over the world.
You can have a look at this transcript of a chat I did recently on Kashmir where I explained that I use the various terms for Kashmir interchangeably: http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/india/twi…
@asma: Others have said it, but I would reiterate– if Mushtaq committed a crime, he should be charged and treated *in accordance with Indian law*. The last part of what I said is the most important. The child is being held in violation of the law.
@ekajanabi: India considers it a state and whether that status is going to change is up to the people of J&K and India. As to whether AI has done enough, the answer is always NO until all human rights are protected all over the world.
You can have a look at this transcript of a chat I did recently on Kashmir where I explained that I use the various terms for Kashmir interchangeably: http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/india/twi…
I’m glad AI has finally woken up to the issue of human rights abuses in Kashmir (after, about 18 years) but still gets the terminology wrong: the UN identifies it as “Indian-administered Kashmir” NOT “the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir”. Why is AI so anxious to defend the Indian’s state’s control over a disputed territory?
Also, there are thousands of Kashmiri political prisoners, many of them children, human rights lawyers, political opponents of Indian rule – please don’t imagine that by naming just one prisoner AI has fulfilled its obligations to hold India accountable for its horrific reign of terror in Kashmir
While the visit, and the entire trip for that matter, was primarily about economic concerns, which explains why the two parties were hesitant to talk about such issues that weren’t on the agenda that may threaten the atmosphere, I really think such mentions should have been made AFTER the matters on the agenda were put through.
If the two countries are to help each other learn to improve their human rights agenda, they must insure that their economic relationship is mutually beneficial, otherwise there is no motivation for such talks. However, to put off such discussions for the purpose of a stable, mutually beneficial economic relationship, defeats one of the major purposes of such a relationship.
In deals with China, during the late 1990s the US government put human rights contingencies in the agreements. This led to some reform on the part of China, and an improved relationship. Over the last decade such contingency clauses have altogether stopped. As a result, our political relationship with China has been strained to the point that it is now threatening our economic relationship.
We cannot have an economic relationship with a nation without having a geopolitical relationship, nor can we have a successful geopolitical relationship without an economic one. While I do praise Obama for some negotiation of trade reform with India, I am highly disappointed that he fails to see the importance of keeping the air of geopolitical issues between the two nations open, even when it could present risk to the current issues at hand.
@asma: Others have said it, but I would reiterate– if Mushtaq committed a crime, he should be charged and treated *in accordance with Indian law*. The last part of what I said is the most important. The child is being held in violation of the law.
@ekajanabi: India considers it a state and whether that status is going to change is up to the people of J&K and India. As to whether AI has done enough, the answer is always NO until all human rights are protected all over the world.
You can have a look at this transcript of a chat I did recently on Kashmir where I explained that I use the various terms for Kashmir interchangeably: http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/india/twitter-chat-kashmir/page.do?id=1721036
@Asma
AI Usually sees only one side of the coin and it is mostly with the parties that are breaking the law of the land. Take Kashmir, LTTE of Sri Lanka and many other instances. AI was always on the side of the Terrorists. i am sure they would have hailed Osama Bin Laden and the Al Quaida if America and the west was not involved. As you may see, there are no blogs against these terrorists either. They wouldn't dare say anything against USA or the west because that's where they get their blood money from. All in all, organizations as AI are a menace to the Human Race – they do not stand of Human rights, but, some other agenda of their own to disrupt livelihoods of developing nations..
@Asma
AI Usually sees only one side of the coin and it is mostly with the parties that are breaking the law of the land. Take Kashmir, LTTE of Sri Lanka and many other instances. AI was always on the side of the Terrorists. i am sure they would have hailed Osama Bin Laden and the Al Quaida if America and the west was not involved. As you may see, there are no blogs against these terrorists either. They wouldn’t dare say anything against USA or the west because that’s where they get their blood money from. All in all, organizations as AI are a menace to the Human Race – they do not stand of Human rights, but, some other agenda of their own to disrupt livelihoods of developing nations..
Hummer: You are making some pretty incredible claims so I hope that you have actual proof that AI "was always on the side of the Terrorists." If not, feel free to provide an apology to us in the comments.
Ah, geez, Mr. Mango always speaking truth to power about how we are so oppressive against the poor, poor, powerless machinery Sri Lankan government against the mighty civilian. I could rebut your allegations, but it's pretty useless given your track record here.
You've provided no proof but propaganda and talking points. It's good that you've memorized them. I suppose all the effort you put into memorizing those talking points has not allowed you to actually read the materials that AI has provided condemning all human rights violations on all sides– Maoists, LTTE, terrorists and the government. Of course, as a Senator here in the US once said, you are entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts. The fact is that we stand with the victims of human rights violations no matter who it is. Your opinion is that we do not, but that is your opinion and not grounded in any facts.
Govind,
I love facts. Love 'em. So let's start with the facts to prove to my points.
The ill-advised anti-SL cricket team 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007 [whilst ignoring Australian & English teams]
AI did create a 'Play by the Rules' anti Sri Lankan cricket team campaign during the 2007 World Cricket Cup. Do you deny it?
Here's a left-wing SL blogger shredding your pathetic campaign and noting "Cricket is the last vestige of national unity we have."
http://indi.ca/2007/04/international-bullshit/
England and Australia, two other teams competing in the same World Cup, (then involved in the Iraq disaster and thus directly responsible for the uncountable thousands of dead Iraqi civilians) were NOT targeted by AI for a similar campaign. Why ?
Were you involved in creating the 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007? Don't be shy, tell us.
More facts to follow to substantiate my other claims.
Wow, so you are linking to a guy who spouts his *opinion* that he didn't like AI's campaign. Big DEAL! LOL, do you even know what a fact is, Mr. Mango?
LOL– such a brave Mr. Mango, defending the poor, oppressed Sri Lankan government by linking to the Sri Lankan mission to the UN and tossing it off as fact.
Let me ask you something, Mr. Mango. You seem to be so concerned about the poor, oppressed Sri Lankan government and seem to care little about the people who have had their human rights violated. Do you even care or is it that you just cut and paste talking points and propaganda that you are given?
If you are not going to apologize for spewing your propaganda here, then I'm done with responding to you.
Govind,
I hope you're loving these facts as much as I am 🙂
Supporting US Representatives' spurious war crimes charges against SL without asking the US to be held to the same standard.
Your own genius Christopher demanding Sri Lanka be tried for war crimes, but strangely and oddly silent about the same charges not applying to the US Representatives or their government.
http://tinyurl.com/2vt3gfa
Human Rights must be a very complicated world to work in, no? Do you think I'll be able to get a job at your New York headquarters?
Govind,
I love facts. Love 'em. So let's start with the facts to prove to my points.
The ill-advised anti-SL cricket team 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007 [whilst ignoring Australian & English teams]
AI did create a 'Play by the Rules' anti Sri Lankan cricket team campaign during the 2007 World Cricket Cup. Do you deny it?
Here's a left-wing SL blogger shredding your pathetic campaign and noting "Cricket is the last vestige of national unity we have."
http://indi.ca/2007/04/international-bullshit/
England and Australia, two other teams competing in the same World Cup, (then involved in the Iraq disaster and thus directly responsible for the uncountable thousands of dead Iraqi civilians) were NOT targeted by AI for a similar campaign. Why ?
Were you involved in creating the 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007? Don't be shy, tell us.
More facts to follow to substantiate my other claims.
Govind,
I love facts. Love 'em. So let's start with the facts to prove to my points.
The ill-advised anti-SL cricket team 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007 [whilst ignoring Australian & English teams]
AI did create a 'Play by the Rules' anti Sri Lankan cricket team campaign during the 2007 World Cricket Cup. Do you deny it?
Here's a left-wing SL blogger shredding your pathetic campaign and noting "Cricket is the last vestige of national unity we have."
http://indi.ca/2007/04/international-bullshit/
England and Australia, two other teams competing in the same World Cup, (then involved in the Iraq disaster and thus directly responsible for the uncountable thousands of dead Iraqi civilians) were NOT targeted by AI for a similar campaign. Why ?
Were you involved in creating the 'Play by the Rules' campaign in 2007? Don't be shy, tell us.
More facts to follow to substantiate my other claims.
Govind,
More lovely facts:
AI trying and failing to punish SL at the UNHRC in May 2009
Some Western countries, ably assisted by the usual cabal of unelected and unrepresentative HR organisations (e.g. AI), attempted to put SL on the dock literally days after it had completely annihilated the military forces of the racist, fascistic LTTE. Sri Lanka countermanded this flawed resolution with its own resolution and decisively won the vote.
The Council adopted Sri Lanka's resolution with 29 countries voting for it and 12 opposing while 6 abstaining and praised the government for its commitment to human rights, while condemning the LTTE.
If your resolution had been carried, you'd be hailing it as a 'great victory for HR' and the rest of the pious nonsense. Yet you're unable to respect the vote which went against you. Why? Do the UNHCR votes only count when they accord with your idea of human rights?
In favour of Sri Lanka's resolution: Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), Brazil, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Madagascar, Malaysia, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Uruguay, Zambia.
Against Sri Lanka's resolution: Bosnia & Herzegovina, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, United Kingdom.
Abstaining: Argentina, Gabon, Japan, Mauritius, Republic of Korea, Ukraine.
Sri Lanka's ambassador in Geneva, Dayan Jayatilleka said European nations had failed with a "punitive and mean-spirited agenda" against his country.
"This was a lesson that a handful of countries which depict themselves as the international community do not really constitute the majority,"
"The vast mass of humanity are in support of Sri Lanka."
Conclusion: AI's definition of 'international community' is simply the EU countries and its client states like Bosnia.
It was a decisive victory and endorsement for SL's position by the non-Western 'international community', which AI couldn't stomach simply because it wasn't the result you expected.
How very democratically minded!
Govind,
The lovely facts just keep tumbling out..
AI spokesdroid Sam Zafiri's attacks on SL in the last stages of the War
I saw Zafiri on BBC News 24 imperiously demanding a ceasefire as the SLA closed in on the remaining LTTE trapped in Mullativu. He didn't explain how this ridiculous ceasefire was supposed to work and not allow the LTTE to re-start their war.
You'll have records of his appearances on various TV channels, so please upload them to Youtube where we can all re-live his Homer Simpsonesque 'Doh' moments again.
Amongst a galaxy of mistaken and foolish pundits, his star burnt the brightest — or should it be dimmest? 🙂
Govind,
I hope you're loving these facts as much as I am 🙂
Supporting US Representatives' spurious war crimes charges against SL without asking the US to be held to the same standard.
Your own genius Christopher demanding Sri Lanka be tried for war crimes, but strangely and oddly silent about the same charges not applying to the US Representatives or their government.
http://tinyurl.com/2vt3gfa
Human Rights must be a very complicated world to work in, no? Do you think I'll be able to get a job at your New York headquarters?
Govind,
I hope you're loving these facts as much as I am 🙂
Supporting US Representatives' spurious war crimes charges against SL without asking the US to be held to the same standard.
Your own genius Christopher demanding Sri Lanka be tried for war crimes, but strangely and oddly silent about the same charges not applying to the US Representatives or their government.
http://tinyurl.com/2vt3gfa
Human Rights must be a very complicated world to work in, no? Do you think I'll be able to get a job at your New York headquarters?
Hummer: You are making some pretty incredible claims so I hope that you have actual proof that AI “was always on the side of the Terrorists.” If not, feel free to provide an apology to us in the comments.
Govind,
I love facts. Love ’em. So let’s start with the facts to prove to my points.
The ill-advised anti-SL cricket team ‘Play by the Rules’ campaign in 2007 [whilst ignoring Australian & English teams]
AI did create a ‘Play by the Rules’ anti Sri Lankan cricket team campaign during the 2007 World Cricket Cup. Do you deny it?
Here’s a left-wing SL blogger shredding your pathetic campaign and noting “Cricket is the last vestige of national unity we have.”
http://indi.ca/2007/04/international-bullshit/
England and Australia, two other teams competing in the same World Cup, (then involved in the Iraq disaster and thus directly responsible for the uncountable thousands of dead Iraqi civilians) were NOT targeted by AI for a similar campaign. Why ?
Were you involved in creating the ‘Play by the Rules’ campaign in 2007? Don’t be shy, tell us.
More facts to follow to substantiate my other claims.
Govind,
More lovely facts:
AI trying and failing to punish SL at the UNHRC in May 2009
Some Western countries, ably assisted by the usual cabal of unelected and unrepresentative HR organisations (e.g. AI), attempted to put SL on the dock literally days after it had completely annihilated the military forces of the racist, fascistic LTTE. Sri Lanka countermanded this flawed resolution with its own resolution and decisively won the vote.
The Council adopted Sri Lanka’s resolution with 29 countries voting for it and 12 opposing while 6 abstaining and praised the government for its commitment to human rights, while condemning the LTTE.
If your resolution had been carried, you’d be hailing it as a ‘great victory for HR’ and the rest of the pious nonsense. Yet you’re unable to respect the vote which went against you. Why? Do the UNHCR votes only count when they accord with your idea of human rights?
In favour of Sri Lanka’s resolution: Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), Brazil, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Madagascar, Malaysia, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Uruguay, Zambia.
Against Sri Lanka’s resolution: Bosnia & Herzegovina, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, United Kingdom.
Abstaining: Argentina, Gabon, Japan, Mauritius, Republic of Korea, Ukraine.
Sri Lanka’s ambassador in Geneva, Dayan Jayatilleka said European nations had failed with a “punitive and mean-spirited agenda” against his country.
“This was a lesson that a handful of countries which depict themselves as the international community do not really constitute the majority,“
“The vast mass of humanity are in support of Sri Lanka.”
Conclusion: AI’s definition of ‘international community’ is simply the EU countries and its client states like Bosnia.
It was a decisive victory and endorsement for SL’s position by the non-Western ‘international community’, which AI couldn’t stomach simply because it wasn’t the result you expected.
How very democratically minded!
Govind,
The lovely facts just keep tumbling out..
AI spokesdroid Sam Zafiri’s attacks on SL in the last stages of the War
I saw Zafiri on BBC News 24 imperiously demanding a ceasefire as the SLA closed in on the remaining LTTE trapped in Mullativu. He didn’t explain how this ridiculous ceasefire was supposed to work and not allow the LTTE to re-start their war.
You’ll have records of his appearances on various TV channels, so please upload them to Youtube where we can all re-live his Homer Simpsonesque ‘Doh’ moments again.
Amongst a galaxy of mistaken and foolish pundits, his star burnt the brightest — or should it be dimmest? 🙂
Govind,
I hope you’re loving these facts as much as I am 🙂
Supporting US Representatives’ spurious war crimes charges against SL without asking the US to be held to the same standard.
Your own genius Christopher demanding Sri Lanka be tried for war crimes, but strangely and oddly silent about the same charges not applying to the US Representatives or their government.
http://tinyurl.com/2vt3gfa
Human Rights must be a very complicated world to work in, no? Do you think I’ll be able to get a job at your New York headquarters?
Mr Acharya,
The more we talk to Mr Mango, the more we get sidestracked from our main issues.
Here we want to talk about Kashmir…. & 14 year old Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh.
Not sinhalese lanka.
We have strayed very far from our main concerns .
Mr Mango is the sole blogger on AI who drags ( almost ) every issue back to his own near solitary agenda ………..sinhalese lanka.
Mr Acharya, allow me to say i'm highly impressed by the quality of your recent work …… & the qualitatively ascending levels of sensitivity & awareness you're now bringing to every issue you touch.
i see your work isn't something static, but is itself now developing you to richer heights of consciousness.
i also love it that you respond spiritedly to comments & come out as a totally engaged Person ….. not a faceless "Blog".
Please continue with your invaluable contributions on the issues of the Kashmiris & all the other Peoples you wish to bring to our attention.
More on Kashmir here, please, everybody.
LOL. So brave of you defending the oppressed Sri Lankan government against the mighty human rights organization with your "facts". Way to speak truth to power. The only fact is who voted for what in the UN. The fact that AI failed at the UNHRC (and that is a fact) doesn't say anything other than we failed at the UNHRC. Everything else you cite is opinion and propaganda.
You use insults and propaganda to push your lies. You should be ashamed of yourself but probably think you're so awesome defending the powerful, using a pseudonym but attacking human rights activists by name. opinions, but not entitled to your version of facts. Since you think you're so awesome, tell us your name and your organization.
To a.savage: I know, but I cannot resist because he an anonymous bully who never gets confronted by the propaganda he spews. With respect to Kashmir, it's interesting that although Amnesty International is highly critical of India, the Indian government actually listens to our concerns. But, you're very correct– Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh must be freed or charged and tried as the child that he is. I do urge everyone to take action.
Mr Acharya,
The more we talk to Mr Mango, the more we get sidestracked from our main issues.
Here we want to talk about Kashmir…. & 14 year old Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh.
Not sinhalese lanka.
We have strayed very far from our main concerns .
Mr Mango is the sole blogger on AI who drags ( almost ) every issue back to his own near solitary agenda ………..sinhalese lanka.
Mr Acharya, allow me to say i’m highly impressed by the quality of your recent work …… & the qualitatively ascending levels of sensitivity & awareness you’re now bringing to every issue you touch.
i see your work isn’t something static, but is itself now developing you to richer heights of consciousness.
i also love it that you respond spiritedly to comments & come out as a totally engaged Person ….. not a faceless “Blog”.
Please continue with your invaluable contributions on the issues of the Kashmiris & all the other Peoples you wish to bring to our attention.
More on Kashmir here, please, everybody.
LOL. So brave of you defending the oppressed Sri Lankan government against the mighty human rights organization with your “facts”. Way to speak truth to power. The only fact is who voted for what in the UN. The fact that AI failed at the UNHRC (and that is a fact) doesn’t say anything other than we failed at the UNHRC. Everything else you cite is opinion and propaganda.
You use insults and propaganda to push your lies. You should be ashamed of yourself but probably think you’re so awesome defending the powerful, using a pseudonym but attacking human rights activists by name. opinions, but not entitled to your version of facts. Since you think you’re so awesome, tell us your name and your organization.
To a.savage: I know, but I cannot resist because he an anonymous bully who never gets confronted by the propaganda he spews. With respect to Kashmir, it’s interesting that although Amnesty International is highly critical of India, the Indian government actually listens to our concerns. But, you’re very correct– Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh must be freed or charged and tried as the child that he is. I do urge everyone to take action.
Hi Govind,
I'm disappointed that you still haven't been able to disprove my proven factual instances of AI's attacks on Sri Lanka, other than calling me a 'bully', 'pushing lies' and being a 'propagandist'. That's a very poor effort! 🙂
Please provide evidence of my 'lies'. It's easy to do if you have counter-facts.
The reason you can't and won't try to provide counter-facts is because you know that the facts I've presented are true.
To take one example: Jim's Cluster Bomb lie. His original lie and subsequent evasions are there in black & white. Why can't you admit it?
You can't even admit that the human rights situation in Sri Lanka is immeasurably better because the LTTE was militarily crushed. That's a fact and not opinion or heresay.
How many civilians have been killed by suicide bombs, cross-fires or stray artillery strikes since May 2009? None.
I'm delighted that India listens to AI — or so you fondly imagine. But AI didn't bother listening to our concerns, which was to rid ourselves of the LTTE once and for all. Sri Lanka is also waiting to hear your precious words of wisdom on how to ensure better human rights for all Lankans. Unfortunately, AI have … refused to come to Sri Lanka, preferring instead to lecture us from afar!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
So on one hand you decry the fact that Sri Lanka wont' listen to AI, yet when asked to come to SL, AI refuses. Unbelievable. I've seen more mature behaviour from spoilt brats. 🙂
p.s. I wouldn't pay too much attention to a.savage's rambling incoherence. He normally writes bad poetry (that's my opinion and not necessarily a fact) to his buddies in the failed LTTE gang. Last we heard, he was going whale-watching off Eastern Sri Lanka with his friend Gunalan, to listen to the terrorists' laments 🙂
p.p.s. I'll stick my anonymous handle for the moment, if you don't mind. I'm just an ordinary person. The internet's full of nutters — especially the LTTE kind…
Hi Govind,
I’m disappointed that you still haven’t been able to disprove my proven factual instances of AI’s attacks on Sri Lanka, other than calling me a ‘bully’, ‘pushing lies’ and being a ‘propagandist’. That’s a very poor effort! 🙂
Please provide evidence of my ‘lies’. It’s easy to do if you have counter-facts.
The reason you can’t and won’t try to provide counter-facts is because you know that the facts I’ve presented are true.
To take one example: Jim’s Cluster Bomb lie. His original lie and subsequent evasions are there in black & white. Why can’t you admit it?
You can’t even admit that the human rights situation in Sri Lanka is immeasurably better because the LTTE was militarily crushed. That’s a fact and not opinion or heresay.
How many civilians have been killed by suicide bombs, cross-fires or stray artillery strikes since May 2009? None.
I’m delighted that India listens to AI — or so you fondly imagine. But AI didn’t bother listening to our concerns, which was to rid ourselves of the LTTE once and for all. Sri Lanka is also waiting to hear your precious words of wisdom on how to ensure better human rights for all Lankans. Unfortunately, AI have … refused to come to Sri Lanka, preferring instead to lecture us from afar!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
So on one hand you decry the fact that Sri Lanka wont’ listen to AI, yet when asked to come to SL, AI refuses. Unbelievable. I’ve seen more mature behaviour from spoilt brats. 🙂
p.s. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to a.savage’s rambling incoherence. He normally writes bad poetry (that’s my opinion and not necessarily a fact) to his buddies in the failed LTTE gang. Last we heard, he was going whale-watching off Eastern Sri Lanka with his friend Gunalan, to listen to the terrorists’ laments 🙂
p.p.s. I’ll stick my anonymous handle for the moment, if you don’t mind. I’m just an ordinary person. The internet’s full of nutters — especially the LTTE kind…
This blog post is about India and I enjoy rollicking comments but I should have cut the discussion about Sri Lanka off immediately instead of responding and feed the trolls.
I should cite AIUSA's terms of use: http://www.amnestyusa.org/privacy-policy/terms-of…
Hummer's recent comment is in violation of point 4 (b) of the terms of use and I have removed the comment from this blog. Mango's comments are generally in violation of section (j) of the terms of use and my comments in response to him "feeding the troll" as it were was also in violation of those terms of use. I will remove all of the comments that have violated the terms of use.
In the spirit of debate, I left up a few of Mango's representative comments on Sri Lanka even though they have literally nothing to do with the post which was about India.
This blog post is about India and I enjoy rollicking comments but I should have cut the discussion about Sri Lanka off immediately instead of responding and feed the trolls.
I should cite AIUSA's terms of use: http://www.amnestyusa.org/privacy-policy/terms-of…
Hummer's recent comment is in violation of point 4 (b) of the terms of use and I have removed the comment from this blog. Mango's comments are generally in violation of section (j) of the terms of use and my comments in response to him "feeding the troll" as it were was also in violation of those terms of use. I will remove all of the comments that have violated the terms of use.
In the spirit of debate, I left up a few of Mango's representative comments on Sri Lanka even though they have literally nothing to do with the post which was about India.
This blog post is about India and I enjoy rollicking comments but I should have cut the discussion about Sri Lanka off immediately instead of responding and feed the trolls.
I should cite AIUSA's terms of use: http://www.amnestyusa.org/privacy-policy/terms-of…
Hummer's recent comment is in violation of point 4 (b) of the terms of use and I have removed the comment from this blog. Mango's comments are generally in violation of section (j) of the terms of use and my comments in response to him "feeding the troll" as it were was also in violation of those terms of use. I will remove all of the comments that have violated the terms of use.
In the spirit of debate, I left up a few of Mango's representative comments on Sri Lanka even though they have literally nothing to do with the post which was about India.
The post says:
"It’s not altogether clear what motivations Kashmiris have to keep quiet over what seems to them (and many Indians) as an occupation."
Discussions ought to be restricted to Human Rights Violations instead of motivating separatist Kashmiris visiting this page to question themselves on why is the violence reducing and life coming back to normal. I am not saying that this was done intentionally but more care should be taken while writing so that the writings do not result in adding fuel to fire.
Hi Ritesh: That might be incorrect. Here in America, where most of the retweets & Facebook shares actually happen, we are in the middle of the holiday that is the biggest of the year– much like Diwali. The whole country basically shuts down from Wednesday afternoon to Sunday.
That's why you are seeing a low number of retweets/FB shares. The problem of course was the anniversary of the Mumbai attack happened during the US holiday so when I wrote it, most people in America were recovering from the heavy eating that comes on the Thursday holiday.
A very sad stand that AI usually takes is of being against India and calling it names. It should be understood that 'India' stands for the people of India, not the few brutal police officers who have imprisoned the boy. May I give a suggestion here? AI should try focusing exclusively on Human Rights criticizing the people involved and not the nations. Just try it and see the amount of support you can get. Had this article been about how an Indian boy is suffering at the hands of some brutal people, there would have been much better support from Indians. For example, I am not sharing this article just because of the part of it which maligns India.
Again, I want to emphasize that even this wasn't done intentionally. But care should be taken not to drag the name of India in such issues. With little doubt among most intellectuals, India definitely is democracy at its best.
@Ritesh: Thanks for your comment. I agree that the post could have solely been about the boy in detention, but with the recent visit of Obama, I needed to combine both issues. It was expressing concern about Mushtaq, but also about the US-India relationship, where neither country talked about the human rights violations being committed. Not that it's going to happen, but I think India should express its concern over civilian deaths in various American wars and the threat to civil liberties in the US just as the US should express its concerns.
@Govind I suggest you to take up this issue of this teenager on the Facebook page of IG Kashmir (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/SM-Sahai-IG-Kashmir/131455413567934). It has been set up to solve the problems of the people. He is solving some problems right on the Facebook page, please do have a look. This is a slap on the face of separatists who say that all security forces want to kill Kashmiris. Taking action on this page can bring real value as against only generating supportive activism. And dear Govindji, I had sent this link to you last month and requested you to join it but probably you missed that message.
@Govind Thank you for agreeing. I cannot emphasize this more: You are not intentionally maligning India, but a little different language would have been much better (especially the one pointed out in my first comment; that sentence really prejudices the mind of the reader and it does not need to be there at all; in fact, I strongly feel that, that sentence is off-topic and can even play a role in motivating the separatists to continue their foolish violence.)
@Govind You should also notice how your posts which malign India receive huge numbers of retweets and Facebook Shares while your other initiatives on Human Rights do not. If you have tried to trace the Facebook shares, you would see that most of them are posted on the pages of violent Kashmiri separatists who freely abuse religions and people and who spew such a lethal venom of hatred which I have never seen elsewhere. (I can say this because I have traced a large number of such shares on Facebook). I am sure these are not the people who you would like to partner with in your efforts for human rights. Your true supporters of Human Rights are the people who are against Human Rights violations everywhere. Support from the false supporters would be more bad for Human Rights than good, since when somebody's ideas become more representative of a hatred-spewing population, most other matured people start disbelieving it. It would be much better if you and me could come together to wash India's dirt instead of maligning 1 billion people for the fault of a few.
Hi Ritesh: That might be incorrect. Here in America, where most of the retweets & Facebook shares actually happen, we are in the middle of the holiday that is the biggest of the year– much like Diwali. The whole country basically shuts down from Wednesday afternoon to Sunday.
That's why you are seeing a low number of retweets/FB shares. The problem of course was the anniversary of the Mumbai attack happened during the US holiday so when I wrote it, most people in America were recovering from the heavy eating that comes on the Thursday holiday.
Hi Ritesh: That might be incorrect. Here in America, where most of the retweets & Facebook shares actually happen, we are in the middle of the holiday that is the biggest of the year– much like Diwali. The whole country basically shuts down from Wednesday afternoon to Sunday.
That's why you are seeing a low number of retweets/FB shares. The problem of course was the anniversary of the Mumbai attack happened during the US holiday so when I wrote it, most people in America were recovering from the heavy eating that comes on the Thursday holiday.
@Govind I cannot say that I am very sure because there is not way to absolutely track all the shares, but I have tried my best using whatever ways of tracing I knew. Please consider the following: Your Bhopal article, the 'Campaign of Repression Against Union Organizing in Bangladesh' article, the 'UPDATED: Kidnapping Environmental Activists in India' article, the 'Hearty Congratulations to Burmese Junta Leader Than Shwe' article, the 'Maldives Political Crisis and Human Rights Implications' article also did not receive many shares and tweets. The list goes on and on. Secondly, also do consider the fact that Facebook shares are overwhelmingly more than Tweets in articles related to Kashmir which condemn India which is not so in all the cases mentioned above (and more). Further, I have traced 29 different shares of one of your India condemning article (on Kashmir) posted to absolutely hatred spewing pages.
@Govind I suggest you to take up this issue of this teenager on the Facebook page of IG Kashmir (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/SM-Sahai-IG-Kashmir/131455413567934). It has been set up to solve the problems of the people. He is solving some problems right on the Facebook page, please do have a look. This is a slap on the face of separatists who say that all security forces want to kill Kashmiris. Taking action on this page can bring real value as against only generating supportive activism. And dear Govindji, I had sent this link to you last month and requested you to join it but probably you missed that message.
@Govind I suggest you to take up this issue of this teenager on the Facebook page of IG Kashmir (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/SM-Sahai-IG-Kashmir/131455413567934). It has been set up to solve the problems of the people. He is solving some problems right on the Facebook page, please do have a look. This is a slap on the face of separatists who say that all security forces want to kill Kashmiris. Taking action on this page can bring real value as against only generating supportive activism. And dear Govindji, I had sent this link to you last month and requested you to join it but probably you missed that message.
It also depends on who retweets it and if it gets posted to the Amnesty Facebook page. That's what drives those things. It's fairly predictable which one will get more attention.
In that case, even AI needs to try to be more unbiased by posting all issues on its Facebook page instead of only those on Kashmir. I for one, feel that all your articles are equally good and none of the issues that you raise should be left out instead of only some of them being preferentially chosen.
This blog post is about India and I enjoy rollicking comments but I should have cut the discussion about Sri Lanka off immediately instead of responding and feed the trolls.
I should cite AIUSA’s terms of use: http://www.amnestyusa.org/privacy-policy/terms-of-use/page.do?id=1041145
Hummer’s recent comment is in violation of point 4 (b) of the terms of use and I have removed the comment from this blog. Mango’s comments are generally in violation of section (j) of the terms of use and my comments in response to him “feeding the troll” as it were was also in violation of those terms of use. I will remove all of the comments that have violated the terms of use.
In the spirit of debate, I left up a few of Mango’s representative comments on Sri Lanka even though they have literally nothing to do with the post which was about India.
The post says:
“It’s not altogether clear what motivations Kashmiris have to keep quiet over what seems to them (and many Indians) as an occupation.”
Discussions ought to be restricted to Human Rights Violations instead of motivating separatist Kashmiris visiting this page to question themselves on why is the violence reducing and life coming back to normal. I am not saying that this was done intentionally but more care should be taken while writing so that the writings do not result in adding fuel to fire.
A very sad stand that AI usually takes is of being against India and calling it names. It should be understood that ‘India’ stands for the people of India, not the few brutal police officers who have imprisoned the boy. May I give a suggestion here? AI should try focusing exclusively on Human Rights criticizing the people involved and not the nations. Just try it and see the amount of support you can get. Had this article been about how an Indian boy is suffering at the hands of some brutal people, there would have been much better support from Indians. For example, I am not sharing this article just because of the part of it which maligns India.
Again, I want to emphasize that even this wasn’t done intentionally. But care should be taken not to drag the name of India in such issues. With little doubt among most intellectuals, India definitely is democracy at its best.
@Ritesh: Thanks for your comment. I agree that the post could have solely been about the boy in detention, but with the recent visit of Obama, I needed to combine both issues. It was expressing concern about Mushtaq, but also about the US-India relationship, where neither country talked about the human rights violations being committed. Not that it’s going to happen, but I think India should express its concern over civilian deaths in various American wars and the threat to civil liberties in the US just as the US should express its concerns.
@Govind Thank you for agreeing. I cannot emphasize this more: You are not intentionally maligning India, but a little different language would have been much better (especially the one pointed out in my first comment; that sentence really prejudices the mind of the reader and it does not need to be there at all; in fact, I strongly feel that, that sentence is off-topic and can even play a role in motivating the separatists to continue their foolish violence.)
@Govind You should also notice how your posts which malign India receive huge numbers of retweets and Facebook Shares while your other initiatives on Human Rights do not. If you have tried to trace the Facebook shares, you would see that most of them are posted on the pages of violent Kashmiri separatists who freely abuse religions and people and who spew such a lethal venom of hatred which I have never seen elsewhere. (I can say this because I have traced a large number of such shares on Facebook). I am sure these are not the people who you would like to partner with in your efforts for human rights. Your true supporters of Human Rights are the people who are against Human Rights violations everywhere. Support from the false supporters would be more bad for Human Rights than good, since when somebody’s ideas become more representative of a hatred-spewing population, most other matured people start disbelieving it. It would be much better if you and me could come together to wash India’s dirt instead of maligning 1 billion people for the fault of a few.
Hi Ritesh: That might be incorrect. Here in America, where most of the retweets & Facebook shares actually happen, we are in the middle of the holiday that is the biggest of the year– much like Diwali. The whole country basically shuts down from Wednesday afternoon to Sunday.
That’s why you are seeing a low number of retweets/FB shares. The problem of course was the anniversary of the Mumbai attack happened during the US holiday so when I wrote it, most people in America were recovering from the heavy eating that comes on the Thursday holiday.
@Govind I cannot say that I am very sure because there is not way to absolutely track all the shares, but I have tried my best using whatever ways of tracing I knew. Please consider the following: Your Bhopal article, the ‘Campaign of Repression Against Union Organizing in Bangladesh’ article, the ‘UPDATED: Kidnapping Environmental Activists in India’ article, the ‘Hearty Congratulations to Burmese Junta Leader Than Shwe’ article, the ‘Maldives Political Crisis and Human Rights Implications’ article also did not receive many shares and tweets. The list goes on and on. Secondly, also do consider the fact that Facebook shares are overwhelmingly more than Tweets in articles related to Kashmir which condemn India which is not so in all the cases mentioned above (and more). Further, I have traced 29 different shares of one of your India condemning article (on Kashmir) posted to absolutely hatred spewing pages.
@Govind I suggest you to take up this issue of this teenager on the Facebook page of IG Kashmir (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/SM-Sahai-IG-Kashmir/131455413567934). It has been set up to solve the problems of the people. He is solving some problems right on the Facebook page, please do have a look. This is a slap on the face of separatists who say that all security forces want to kill Kashmiris. Taking action on this page can bring real value as against only generating supportive activism. And dear Govindji, I had sent this link to you last month and requested you to join it but probably you missed that message.
It also depends on who retweets it and if it gets posted to the Amnesty Facebook page. That’s what drives those things. It’s fairly predictable which one will get more attention.
In that case, even AI needs to try to be more unbiased by posting all issues on its Facebook page instead of only those on Kashmir. I for one, feel that all your articles are equally good and none of the issues that you raise should be left out instead of only some of them being preferentially chosen.
Hi Govind,
Because you can't disprove my facts you chose to censor me. Your blog, your choice and a perfect example of AI's inability face criticism.
If you're really worried about 'off topic' comments you should read back through the Sri Lanka blog postings! No-one took any notice then when the fierce warriors of Eelam were carpet bombing the blogs with tedious cut'n'paste news stories.
Anyway, thanks for proving my point. The fact remains the same. You asked for proof of AI's partiality, I provided it and er…. you didn't like it. Oh well… what to do, no?
Hi Govind,
Because you can’t disprove my facts you chose to censor me. Your blog, your choice and a perfect example of AI’s inability face criticism.
If you’re really worried about ‘off topic’ comments you should read back through the Sri Lanka blog postings! No-one took any notice then when the fierce warriors of Eelam were carpet bombing the blogs with tedious cut’n’paste news stories.
Anyway, thanks for proving my point. The fact remains the same. You asked for proof of AI’s partiality, I provided it and er…. you didn’t like it. Oh well… what to do, no?
Mr Singh would like to "restrict" these discussions to "rights violations" in Kashmir as scattered, isolated, unrepresentative cases "only", violations committed by "just" a "few" brutal police officers.
A more wholistic, unifed & complete view of the situation in Kashmir is taken by …….. the overwhelming mass of Kashmiris themselves, as well as by …… a wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the indian population AND world opinion, & EQUALLY by all regional & international human rights organizations, & not just Amnesty International alone ……. that these are not just isolated, scattered, nontypical incidents, but reported examples that are representative of, indeed part & parcel of, the Phenomenon of Repression unleashed by the indian Occupation of Kashmir upon the people there.
Mr Singh says india shouldn't be "maligned". His choice of words ( a belated attempt at "damage control" ) shows his own gentrified isolation from tha vast masses of both India & Kashmir , ……… & the growing gap between the masses & the ruling, previleged Indian elite of the big cities.
His "maligned" "India" is the india of this elite, whose living standards ( & mentalities ) are like affluent little Belgiums & Austrias in the vast ocean of impoverished, rural, "3rd World" india…. the real india.
He's stunned & disgusted by the "hate" towards HIS "india" ( the elite's india ) "spewed" by Kashmiris…… the same Kashmiris who were never given a choice by this indian elite in determining whether thery wanted to be a part of india or not, or what kind of state or status they wanted FOR THEMSELVES ……
……… the same Kashmiris who have been calling for decades for a People's Referendum to determine their own destiny themselves …. as a people.
Mr Singh talks of "separatist" Kashmiris ……. just as China talks of the "separatist", "splittist" Dalai Lama & Tibetans …… when we all know the "separatist" Kashmiris ARE the ordinary masses of Kashmiris, they are unanimously united in their open "hate" ( oh yes ! ) towards the Occupation of their land by the indian elite's armed forces.
Mr Singh says violence is going down & "normalcy" coming back to Kashmir. This gives an idea of the extent of the gap between the indian elite & Kashmiri reality.
If "violence" is decreasing, it's because of the Kashmiri people's own nonviolent but undeterred mass struggle against the Occupation.
If he hopes "less" violence = "normalcy", he doesn't understand the people, or the nature of peoples' movements, in either india or Kashmir … or anywhere else.
Which is precisaely the point here.
Dear Govind,
I hope you will be able to read this post as I am blocked from the blog. I wouldn't mind as this post is intended for you and not the others of this blog.
I indeed knew that my second posting was against the rules of how this blog runs. But, if you read from top, you will realize that what I have done is merely reply to the question you have posted to me. If so, haven't you violated the laws of the blogs by asking me such question ?? Shouldn't you be banned too ???? 🙁
However, I have noticed before too that whenever you (AI) are posted with questions, blocking is the ploy you adhere to sneak away from answering them..
As Mango correctly mentioned, All blogs on Sri Lanka were flooded with copy and paste articles from Terrorists – no such action was taken by you moderators to block them – this again proves my initial argument of AI supporting Terrorists than legal governments…
Good luck in your endevours, but remember that there always will be those who watch your back when you try to wash other peoples backs..
Mr Singh would like to “restrict” these discussions to “rights violations” in Kashmir as scattered, isolated, unrepresentative cases “only”, violations committed by “just” a “few” brutal police officers.
A more wholistic, unifed & complete view of the situation in Kashmir is taken by …….. the overwhelming mass of Kashmiris themselves, as well as by …… a wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the indian population AND world opinion, & EQUALLY by all regional & international human rights organizations, & not just Amnesty International alone ……. that these are not just isolated, scattered, nontypical incidents, but reported examples that are representative of, indeed part & parcel of, the Phenomenon of Repression unleashed by the indian Occupation of Kashmir upon the people there.
Mr Singh says india shouldn’t be “maligned”. His choice of words ( a belated attempt at “damage control” ) shows his own gentrified isolation from tha vast masses of both India & Kashmir , ……… & the growing gap between the masses & the ruling, previleged Indian elite of the big cities.
His “maligned” “India” is the india of this elite, whose living standards ( & mentalities ) are like affluent little Belgiums & Austrias in the vast ocean of impoverished, rural, “3rd World” india…. the real india.
He’s stunned & disgusted by the “hate” towards HIS “india” ( the elite’s india ) “spewed” by Kashmiris…… the same Kashmiris who were never given a choice by this indian elite in determining whether thery wanted to be a part of india or not, or what kind of state or status they wanted FOR THEMSELVES ……
……… the same Kashmiris who have been calling for decades for a People’s Referendum to determine their own destiny themselves …. as a people.
Mr Singh talks of “separatist” Kashmiris ……. just as China talks of the “separatist”, “splittist” Dalai Lama & Tibetans …… when we all know the “separatist” Kashmiris ARE the ordinary masses of Kashmiris, they are unanimously united in their open “hate” ( oh yes ! ) towards the Occupation of their land by the indian elite’s armed forces.
Mr Singh says violence is going down & “normalcy” coming back to Kashmir. This gives an idea of the extent of the gap between the indian elite & Kashmiri reality.
If “violence” is decreasing, it’s because of the Kashmiri people’s own nonviolent but undeterred mass struggle against the Occupation.
If he hopes “less” violence = “normalcy”, he doesn’t understand the people, or the nature of peoples’ movements, in either india or Kashmir … or anywhere else.
Which is precisaely the point here.
Dear Govind,
I hope you will be able to read this post as I am blocked from the blog. I wouldn’t mind as this post is intended for you and not the others of this blog.
I indeed knew that my second posting was against the rules of how this blog runs. But, if you read from top, you will realize that what I have done is merely reply to the question you have posted to me. If so, haven’t you violated the laws of the blogs by asking me such question ?? Shouldn’t you be banned too ???? 🙁
However, I have noticed before too that whenever you (AI) are posted with questions, blocking is the ploy you adhere to sneak away from answering them..
As Mango correctly mentioned, All blogs on Sri Lanka were flooded with copy and paste articles from Terrorists – no such action was taken by you moderators to block them – this again proves my initial argument of AI supporting Terrorists than legal governments…
Good luck in your endevours, but remember that there always will be those who watch your back when you try to wash other peoples backs..
You are not blocked from commenting, just that the last few posts (*including* my posts) were in violation of the terms of use. I deleted even mine. Feel free to comment away, but please stick to the topic like you did in your last post.
This is a reply to Respected Mr. a.savage and others who may or may not concur with him:
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for your message to me.
First things first. I am not at all a part of the "Elite India" "of the big cities". In fact, I am so much a part of the masses that you, who seem to be fond of reading people like Ms. Arundhati (from your thoughts), cannot even imagine. As a matter of fact, to feel the pains of poor people of the country and be close to them, I have pledged the following and have not broken it for the last 1.5 years. I live in West Bengal and survive myself on only Rs. 1500 per month (approx. $30 per month). This is equivalent to Rs. 50 per day while the daily minimum wage for workers is fixed to be Rs. 192 in West Bengal. I spend this money for food, clothing, medicines and other requirements like soap, toothpaste etc. Even on the coldest days when the temperature here drops to as low as 3 degrees Celsius, I force myself *not* to use a blanket or any such cloth any time of the day. I force myself to have just a breakfast and a dinner and suppress my hunger everyday. I wear the cheapest available footwear. If I can use the internet, it is only because of Govt. of India which heavily subsidizes my internet usage (because I am a good student). Before coming to West Bengal, I lived in one of most undeveloped parts of India with almost zero access to Electricity, Potable Water, Roads, Telephone, Television, Radio etc. My aunt died of Diarrhea when the medication costs only Rs. 5 (10 Cents). At that time, my family was not able to afford sufficient wheat to fill up the stomach and so used to supplement the meal with raw wild grasses. We washed our hands with soil and brushed our teeth with twigs.We could not afford footwear. My house is built of mud and the ceiling gets rebuilt almost every monsoon. During monsoon all of us face severe sleep deprivation because of leakage of ceiling which does not allow us to sleep. I can simply go on and on.
It really pains me when you think that people at the heart of India know less about it than people, say, in the U.S. To tell you the truth, we (poor people of India) feel that people like Ms. Arundhati would do best by keeping quiet. Ms. Arundhati here is just representative of the "wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the Indian Population". The population which you are calling "wide section" is in fact in severe minority (I would suggest you to try to read more about India and Indians). Such people (like Arundhati) just create severe problems for us youngsters when we want everybody to get engaged in solutions to problems and not increasing problems for us. They simply refuse to be part of the solution and all this while enjoying highest levels of luxury and material pleasure. To represent India's poor, they must be one of the poor and then they will be able to understand us the best. They create unnecessary divisions (not only in Kashmir but more alarmingly by trying to separate Dalits) when we know that without unity our problems cannot be solved. Do you even know that most poor believe that Maoists are ruining the poor's lives? By endorsing Maoists people like Ms. Arundhati and V. V. Rao are creating a havoc in our (poor people's) lives.
My research topic was Kashmir and a large number of my friends are Kashmiris (I do not want to segregate them by religion). It is appalling to compare Kashmir with Tibet. Kashmiri protesters worship violence and militants even up to the extent of worshiping mass murderers like Bitta Karate. They provide food, give shelter to and support the militants economically. Progressive thinkers who want peace and development of Kashmir (even those who want plebiscite) are threatened with death. I know five such people from the districts of Anantnag, Rajouri, Poonch, Srinagar and Ganderbal who were given death threats publicly (two of these are my friends). The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today. Try to read articles also from people opposing your viewpoint to come out of your illusion on Kashmir.
What you do not seem to understand is that India is not the name of those few people at the power. India is the name of its One Billion people whom neither you nor anybody else has any reason or right whatsoever to malign. Even among those few at the power a significant number of them are great people whom nobody has any right to malign. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned, examples of great people and organizations working there include, S M Sahai, Indo-Global Social Service Society, Indian Peace Society, MSF India, CRY India and so on. These people and organizations are almost exclusively composed of non-Kashmiri Indians and are dedicated for the Kashmiris. S M Sahai is the Inspector General of Kashmir and almost a messiah for Kashmir. At the personal level, I regularly donate money (from that Rs. 1500 per month) to CRY in Kashmir for the benefit of Kashmiri children (do understand that donating to them means I have to satisfy myself in even less food). I have also started a non-profit organization for reconciliation with the people of Kashmir named Mission Kashmir (the online way to connect with it is through facebook: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir ).
Finally, You should know this: Human Rights Violations in Kashmri happen predominantly only because of few brutal officers. Most of them who commit it are afflicted with Stanford Prison Syndrome: If you have some time, read about how it affects the Kashmiri security forces here: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373…
Also do read this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=283) and this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=275) for views of progressive people of Kashmir (including those who have suffered at the hands of security personnel in Kashmir but still believe in progressive thought) on the problem there.
Please do consider all that I have said. Goodbye and Take Care.
With highest regards,
Ritesh
This is a reply to Respected Mr. a.savage and others who may or may not concur with him:
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for your message to me.
First things first. I am not at all a part of the "Elite India" "of the big cities". In fact, I am so much a part of the masses that you, who seem to be fond of reading people like Ms. Arundhati (from your thoughts), cannot even imagine. As a matter of fact, to feel the pains of poor people of the country and be close to them, I have pledged the following and have not broken it for the last 1.5 years. I live in West Bengal and survive myself on only Rs. 1500 per month (approx. $30 per month). This is equivalent to Rs. 50 per day while the daily minimum wage for workers is fixed to be Rs. 192 in West Bengal. I spend this money for food, clothing, medicines and other requirements like soap, toothpaste etc. Even on the coldest days when the temperature here drops to as low as 3 degrees Celsius, I force myself *not* to use a blanket or any such cloth any time of the day. I force myself to have just a breakfast and a dinner and suppress my hunger everyday. I wear the cheapest available footwear. If I can use the internet, it is only because of Govt. of India which heavily subsidizes my internet usage (because I am a good student). Before coming to West Bengal, I lived in one of most undeveloped parts of India with almost zero access to Electricity, Potable Water, Roads, Telephone, Television, Radio etc. My aunt died of Diarrhea when the medication costs only Rs. 5 (10 Cents). At that time, my family was not able to afford sufficient wheat to fill up the stomach and so used to supplement the meal with raw wild grasses. We washed our hands with soil and brushed our teeth with twigs.We could not afford footwear. My house is built of mud and the ceiling gets rebuilt almost every monsoon. During monsoon all of us face severe sleep deprivation because of leakage of ceiling which does not allow us to sleep. I can simply go on and on.
It really pains me when you think that people at the heart of India know less about it than people, say, in the U.S. To tell you the truth, we (poor people of India) feel that people like Ms. Arundhati would do best by keeping quiet. Ms. Arundhati here is just representative of the "wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the Indian Population". The population which you are calling "wide section" is in fact in severe minority (I would suggest you to try to read more about India and Indians). Such people (like Arundhati) just create severe problems for us youngsters when we want everybody to get engaged in solutions to problems and not increasing problems for us. They simply refuse to be part of the solution and all this while enjoying highest levels of luxury and material pleasure. To represent India's poor, they must be one of the poor and then they will be able to understand us the best. They create unnecessary divisions (not only in Kashmir but more alarmingly by trying to separate Dalits) when we know that without unity our problems cannot be solved. Do you even know that most poor believe that Maoists are ruining the poor's lives? By endorsing Maoists people like Ms. Arundhati and V. V. Rao are creating a havoc in our (poor people's) lives.
My research topic was Kashmir and a large number of my friends are Kashmiris (I do not want to segregate them by religion). It is appalling to compare Kashmir with Tibet. Kashmiri protesters worship violence and militants even up to the extent of worshiping mass murderers like Bitta Karate. They provide food, give shelter to and support the militants economically. Progressive thinkers who want peace and development of Kashmir (even those who want plebiscite) are threatened with death. I know five such people from the districts of Anantnag, Rajouri, Poonch, Srinagar and Ganderbal who were given death threats publicly (two of these are my friends). The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today. Try to read articles also from people opposing your viewpoint to come out of your illusion on Kashmir.
What you do not seem to understand is that India is not the name of those few people at the power. India is the name of its One Billion people whom neither you nor anybody else has any reason or right whatsoever to malign. Even among those few at the power a significant number of them are great people whom nobody has any right to malign. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned, examples of great people and organizations working there include, S M Sahai, Indo-Global Social Service Society, Indian Peace Society, MSF India, CRY India and so on. These people and organizations are almost exclusively composed of non-Kashmiri Indians and are dedicated for the Kashmiris. S M Sahai is the Inspector General of Kashmir and almost a messiah for Kashmir. At the personal level, I regularly donate money (from that Rs. 1500 per month) to CRY in Kashmir for the benefit of Kashmiri children (do understand that donating to them means I have to satisfy myself in even less food). I have also started a non-profit organization for reconciliation with the people of Kashmir named Mission Kashmir (the online way to connect with it is through facebook: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir ).
Finally, You should know this: Human Rights Violations in Kashmri happen predominantly only because of few brutal officers. Most of them who commit it are afflicted with Stanford Prison Syndrome: If you have some time, read about how it affects the Kashmiri security forces here: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373…
Also do read this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=283) and this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=275) for views of progressive people of Kashmir (including those who have suffered at the hands of security personnel in Kashmir but still believe in progressive thought) on the problem there.
Please do consider all that I have said. Goodbye and Take Care.
With highest regards,
Ritesh
This is a reply to Respected Mr. a.savage and others who may or may not concur with him:
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for your message to me.
First things first. I am not at all a part of the "Elite India" "of the big cities". In fact, I am so much a part of the masses that you, who seem to be fond of reading people like Ms. Arundhati (from your thoughts), cannot even imagine. As a matter of fact, to feel the pains of poor people of the country and be close to them, I have pledged the following and have not broken it for the last 1.5 years. I live in West Bengal and survive myself on only Rs. 1500 per month (approx. $30 per month). This is equivalent to Rs. 50 per day while the daily minimum wage for workers is fixed to be Rs. 192 in West Bengal. I spend this money for food, clothing, medicines and other requirements like soap, toothpaste etc. Even on the coldest days when the temperature here drops to as low as 3 degrees Celsius, I force myself *not* to use a blanket or any such cloth any time of the day. I force myself to have just a breakfast and a dinner and suppress my hunger everyday. I wear the cheapest available footwear. If I can use the internet, it is only because of Govt. of India which heavily subsidizes my internet usage (because I am a good student). Before coming to West Bengal, I lived in one of most undeveloped parts of India with almost zero access to Electricity, Potable Water, Roads, Telephone, Television, Radio etc. My aunt died of Diarrhea when the medication costs only Rs. 5 (10 Cents). At that time, my family was not able to afford sufficient wheat to fill up the stomach and so used to supplement the meal with raw wild grasses. We washed our hands with soil and brushed our teeth with twigs.We could not afford footwear. My house is built of mud and the ceiling gets rebuilt almost every monsoon. During monsoon all of us face severe sleep deprivation because of leakage of ceiling which does not allow us to sleep. I can simply go on and on.
It really pains me when you think that people at the heart of India know less about it than people, say, in the U.S. To tell you the truth, we (poor people of India) feel that people like Ms. Arundhati would do best by keeping quiet. Ms. Arundhati here is just representative of the "wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the Indian Population". The population which you are calling "wide section" is in fact in severe minority (I would suggest you to try to read more about India and Indians). Such people (like Arundhati) just create severe problems for us youngsters when we want everybody to get engaged in solutions to problems and not increasing problems for us. They simply refuse to be part of the solution and all this while enjoying highest levels of luxury and material pleasure. To represent India's poor, they must be one of the poor and then they will be able to understand us the best. They create unnecessary divisions (not only in Kashmir but more alarmingly by trying to separate Dalits) when we know that without unity our problems cannot be solved. Do you even know that most poor believe that Maoists are ruining the poor's lives? By endorsing Maoists people like Ms. Arundhati and V. V. Rao are creating a havoc in our (poor people's) lives.
My research topic was Kashmir and a large number of my friends are Kashmiris (I do not want to segregate them by religion). It is appalling to compare Kashmir with Tibet. Kashmiri protesters worship violence and militants even up to the extent of worshiping mass murderers like Bitta Karate. They provide food, give shelter to and support the militants economically. Progressive thinkers who want peace and development of Kashmir (even those who want plebiscite) are threatened with death. I know five such people from the districts of Anantnag, Rajouri, Poonch, Srinagar and Ganderbal who were given death threats publicly (two of these are my friends). The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today. Try to read articles also from people opposing your viewpoint to come out of your illusion on Kashmir.
What you do not seem to understand is that India is not the name of those few people at the power. India is the name of its One Billion people whom neither you nor anybody else has any reason or right whatsoever to malign. Even among those few at the power a significant number of them are great people whom nobody has any right to malign. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned, examples of great people and organizations working there include, S M Sahai, Indo-Global Social Service Society, Indian Peace Society, MSF India, CRY India and so on. These people and organizations are almost exclusively composed of non-Kashmiri Indians and are dedicated for the Kashmiris. S M Sahai is the Inspector General of Kashmir and almost a messiah for Kashmir. At the personal level, I regularly donate money (from that Rs. 1500 per month) to CRY in Kashmir for the benefit of Kashmiri children (do understand that donating to them means I have to satisfy myself in even less food). I have also started a non-profit organization for reconciliation with the people of Kashmir named Mission Kashmir (the online way to connect with it is through facebook: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir ).
Finally, You should know this: Human Rights Violations in Kashmri happen predominantly only because of few brutal officers. Most of them who commit it are afflicted with Stanford Prison Syndrome: If you have some time, read about how it affects the Kashmiri security forces here: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373…
Also do read this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=283) and this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=275) for views of progressive people of Kashmir (including those who have suffered at the hands of security personnel in Kashmir but still believe in progressive thought) on the problem there.
Please do consider all that I have said. Goodbye and Take Care.
With highest regards,
Ritesh
You are not blocked from commenting, just that the last few posts (*including* my posts) were in violation of the terms of use. I deleted even mine. Feel free to comment away, but please stick to the topic like you did in your last post.
This is a reply to Respected Mr. a.savage and others who may or may not concur with him:
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for your message to me.
First things first. I am not at all a part of the “Elite India” “of the big cities”. In fact, I am so much a part of the masses that you, who seem to be fond of reading people like Ms. Arundhati (from your thoughts), cannot even imagine. As a matter of fact, to feel the pains of poor people of the country and be close to them, I have pledged the following and have not broken it for the last 1.5 years. I live in West Bengal and survive myself on only Rs. 1500 per month (approx. $30 per month). This is equivalent to Rs. 50 per day while the daily minimum wage for workers is fixed to be Rs. 192 in West Bengal. I spend this money for food, clothing, medicines and other requirements like soap, toothpaste etc. Even on the coldest days when the temperature here drops to as low as 3 degrees Celsius, I force myself *not* to use a blanket or any such cloth any time of the day. I force myself to have just a breakfast and a dinner and suppress my hunger everyday. I wear the cheapest available footwear. If I can use the internet, it is only because of Govt. of India which heavily subsidizes my internet usage (because I am a good student). Before coming to West Bengal, I lived in one of most undeveloped parts of India with almost zero access to Electricity, Potable Water, Roads, Telephone, Television, Radio etc. My aunt died of Diarrhea when the medication costs only Rs. 5 (10 Cents). At that time, my family was not able to afford sufficient wheat to fill up the stomach and so used to supplement the meal with raw wild grasses. We washed our hands with soil and brushed our teeth with twigs.We could not afford footwear. My house is built of mud and the ceiling gets rebuilt almost every monsoon. During monsoon all of us face severe sleep deprivation because of leakage of ceiling which does not allow us to sleep. I can simply go on and on.
It really pains me when you think that people at the heart of India know less about it than people, say, in the U.S. To tell you the truth, we (poor people of India) feel that people like Ms. Arundhati would do best by keeping quiet. Ms. Arundhati here is just representative of the “wide section ( the progressive & aware segments ) of the Indian Population”. The population which you are calling “wide section” is in fact in severe minority (I would suggest you to try to read more about India and Indians). Such people (like Arundhati) just create severe problems for us youngsters when we want everybody to get engaged in solutions to problems and not increasing problems for us. They simply refuse to be part of the solution and all this while enjoying highest levels of luxury and material pleasure. To represent India’s poor, they must be one of the poor and then they will be able to understand us the best. They create unnecessary divisions (not only in Kashmir but more alarmingly by trying to separate Dalits) when we know that without unity our problems cannot be solved. Do you even know that most poor believe that Maoists are ruining the poor’s lives? By endorsing Maoists people like Ms. Arundhati and V. V. Rao are creating a havoc in our (poor people’s) lives.
My research topic was Kashmir and a large number of my friends are Kashmiris (I do not want to segregate them by religion). It is appalling to compare Kashmir with Tibet. Kashmiri protesters worship violence and militants even up to the extent of worshiping mass murderers like Bitta Karate. They provide food, give shelter to and support the militants economically. Progressive thinkers who want peace and development of Kashmir (even those who want plebiscite) are threatened with death. I know five such people from the districts of Anantnag, Rajouri, Poonch, Srinagar and Ganderbal who were given death threats publicly (two of these are my friends). The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today. Try to read articles also from people opposing your viewpoint to come out of your illusion on Kashmir.
What you do not seem to understand is that India is not the name of those few people at the power. India is the name of its One Billion people whom neither you nor anybody else has any reason or right whatsoever to malign. Even among those few at the power a significant number of them are great people whom nobody has any right to malign. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned, examples of great people and organizations working there include, S M Sahai, Indo-Global Social Service Society, Indian Peace Society, MSF India, CRY India and so on. These people and organizations are almost exclusively composed of non-Kashmiri Indians and are dedicated for the Kashmiris. S M Sahai is the Inspector General of Kashmir and almost a messiah for Kashmir. At the personal level, I regularly donate money (from that Rs. 1500 per month) to CRY in Kashmir for the benefit of Kashmiri children (do understand that donating to them means I have to satisfy myself in even less food). I have also started a non-profit organization for reconciliation with the people of Kashmir named Mission Kashmir (the online way to connect with it is through facebook: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir ).
Finally, You should know this: Human Rights Violations in Kashmri happen predominantly only because of few brutal officers. Most of them who commit it are afflicted with Stanford Prison Syndrome: If you have some time, read about how it affects the Kashmiri security forces here: http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=273
Also do read this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=283) and this (http://www.facebook.com/missionkashmir?v=app_2373072738&ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=157237547635220&topic=275) for views of progressive people of Kashmir (including those who have suffered at the hands of security personnel in Kashmir but still believe in progressive thought) on the problem there.
Please do consider all that I have said. Goodbye and Take Care.
With highest regards,
Ritesh
Dear Mr Singh,
i knew very well what you were going to say ….
That you yourself are not part of the elite.
i never said you were.
The elite have other things to do than blog Amnesty.They have a world to run.
But you prove the point made by the poet Shelley .
Shelley wondered how a few ( in power ) can control so many ( the powerless )…….
& he understood … that the elite who control a society maintain their power by owning, & using, the social & cultural instruments of influence which control the people's thinking… even their subconscious.
You're part of your own class society ….. & however poor you are, you say exactly the things the indian ruling classes, & their media & culture, say about Kashmir. They educate you with this thinking…. they train you with this thinking… from your childhood… It's the social process.
That you have …. even unconsciously ….. internalized the dominant indian elite's thinking about Kashmir is shown when you yourself say the indian Inspector General of Kashmir "is … almost a messiah for Kashmir." One of the heads of the Occupation is, for you, "almost a messiah" for the people he occupies !
That you are what you daily & hourly imbibe socially & culturally is shown when you say Ms Arundhati Roy is responsible for "creating unnecessary divisions" in Kashmir. These "divisions" you talk of are in fact those between the Kashmiri people & india ……. & they yawned & fissured long before Ms Roy spoke about this issue.
To you it is the Kashmiri protestors who "worship violence", not the army of the Occupation. You say they worship the militants & help them.
Just like your people worshipped & helped the terrorists who fought against the British Occupation, Mr Singh ? For an occupied people love those who resist the Occupation that represses them.
india is not just her rulers but a billion people, you say, whom no one has the right to malign ! No one is maligning the billion, Mr Singh, for the billion have no say in running things or imposing the Occupation… When people mention india in relation to Kashmir, Mr Singh, they're talking of india's power structure, india's political system, & not about her population.
As you blame Ms Roy for "creating divisions", you blame "a few police officers" for the rights violations as well.
You give superhuman roles to individuals, & too little importance to social & political processes.
Do you know the human toll from your country's Occupation of Kashmir, Mr Singh ?
80,000 dead…….
8,000 disappeared………
Only "a few brutal officers", Mr Singh ?
It takes the full weight of an army/ paramilitary / police / nationstate ……. spanning decades …… to inflict this level of violence upon a people.
It may take a decade more for you yourself to awaken to what your country is doing … in your name.
Or it may be sooner than that.
Dear Ritesh, my Brother,
You ask me to consider all you have said.
Be assured every word of yours has been weighed & considered carefully by me…. & i will continue to remember & review everything you have said.
So i cannot bid you "Goodbye" as you have done.
Words are like ripples……. going onwards, for always ……..& there is no "goodbye".
i can't respond to some things you have said…. for they are not the issue here.
But i have tears in my eyes when i remember all you said when you said No, you didn't belong to the elite……
When you outlined … barely outlined …… the pain & suffering you undergo … i know you tell me only the half that you can say.
The other half inside you is too full for words.
But your pain is my only hope.
That it will ….. someday …….. wean you away from all the things we are taught against a people we have ourselves colonized, strange as it may sound …..
…when you & i can free ourselves from all the things we're taught against individuals whom society makes into its scapegoats, when it can no longer solve its own problems …..
when you & i can be Connected by creating a clear Division between all the Oppressed & their oppression.
So, no goodbyes from me.
The Struggle is Together.
In Oneness,
a. savage
Dear Mr Singh,
i knew very well what you were going to say ….
That you yourself are not part of the elite.
i never said you were.
The elite have other things to do than blog Amnesty.They have a world to run.
But you prove the point made by the poet Shelley .
Shelley wondered how a few ( in power ) can control so many ( the powerless )…….
& he understood … that the elite who control a society maintain their power by owning, & using, the social & cultural instruments of influence which control the people’s thinking… even their subconscious.
You’re part of your own class society ….. & however poor you are, you say exactly the things the indian ruling classes, & their media & culture, say about Kashmir. They educate you with this thinking…. they train you with this thinking… from your childhood… It’s the social process.
That you have …. even unconsciously ….. internalized the dominant indian elite’s thinking about Kashmir is shown when you yourself say the indian Inspector General of Kashmir “is … almost a messiah for Kashmir.” One of the heads of the Occupation is, for you, “almost a messiah” for the people he occupies !
That you are what you daily & hourly imbibe socially & culturally is shown when you say Ms Arundhati Roy is responsible for “creating unnecessary divisions” in Kashmir. These “divisions” you talk of are in fact those between the Kashmiri people & india ……. & they yawned & fissured long before Ms Roy spoke about this issue.
To you it is the Kashmiri protestors who “worship violence”, not the army of the Occupation. You say they worship the militants & help them.
Just like your people worshipped & helped the terrorists who fought against the British Occupation, Mr Singh ? For an occupied people love those who resist the Occupation that represses them.
india is not just her rulers but a billion people, you say, whom no one has the right to malign ! No one is maligning the billion, Mr Singh, for the billion have no say in running things or imposing the Occupation… When people mention india in relation to Kashmir, Mr Singh, they’re talking of india’s power structure, india’s political system, & not about her population.
As you blame Ms Roy for “creating divisions”, you blame “a few police officers” for the rights violations as well.
You give superhuman roles to individuals, & too little importance to social & political processes.
Do you know the human toll from your country’s Occupation of Kashmir, Mr Singh ?
80,000 dead…….
8,000 disappeared………
Only “a few brutal officers”, Mr Singh ?
It takes the full weight of an army/ paramilitary / police / nationstate ……. spanning decades …… to inflict this level of violence upon a people.
It may take a decade more for you yourself to awaken to what your country is doing … in your name.
Or it may be sooner than that.
Dear Ritesh, my Brother,
You ask me to consider all you have said.
Be assured every word of yours has been weighed & considered carefully by me…. & i will continue to remember & review everything you have said.
So i cannot bid you “Goodbye” as you have done.
Words are like ripples……. going onwards, for always ……..& there is no “goodbye”.
i can’t respond to some things you have said…. for they are not the issue here.
But i have tears in my eyes when i remember all you said when you said No, you didn’t belong to the elite……
When you outlined … barely outlined …… the pain & suffering you undergo … i know you tell me only the half that you can say.
The other half inside you is too full for words.
But your pain is my only hope.
That it will ….. someday …….. wean you away from all the things we are taught against a people we have ourselves colonized, strange as it may sound …..
…when you & i can free ourselves from all the things we’re taught against individuals whom society makes into its scapegoats, when it can no longer solve its own problems …..
when you & i can be Connected by creating a clear Division between all the Oppressed & their oppression.
So, no goodbyes from me.
The Struggle is Together.
In Oneness,
a. savage
Dear brother (a.savage),
Sorry for the late reply. I am unable to access the internet daily.
Thank you so much for your loving and emotionally touching last post. And thank you for considering my side too. Probably for the first time in my life, somebody was so far yet so near to me. You may be correct when you say that we could be affected subconsciously.
But still I request you to consider my side without thinking that I may be affected subconsciously and so may be biased in my views. I try my best to remain absolutely unbiased. At the same time, you also need to objectively consider that you too may be biased at least slightly. Furthermore, you also need to consider that the Kashmiri protesters are affected subconsciously much more than what is possible for me (because of poisonous environment that they live in with daily instigation, communal incitement, false news and propaganda and so on; you need to read more about Kashmir from both the sides to gain a deep insight into the situation there. This, I have done a lot)
You gave me example of terrorism against the British in the Indian Freedom Struggle. My dear brother, I strongly believe even that was grossly incorrect and most Indians at that time believed it to be an incorrect way of struggle. That is why most of the nation followed Mahatma Gandhi who criticized the revolutionaries.
You doubt the fact that S M Sahai (the Inspector General) is almost a messiah for Kashmir. Again I strongly urge you to read more about him and Kashmir and how a large percentage of population in Kashmir actually deeply respects him before thinking that I was wrong. Sahai was previously in charge of Ganderbal District in Kashmir in 1990s. While the rest of Kashmir witnessed around 10 % voter turnout, Ganderbal regularly witnessed >60 % voter turnout because people believe in Sahai. When in Ganderbal, he also imprisoned his own boss for fake encounter which is one of the main reasons why her has earned respect of a large number of Kashmiris. Informed views are always better than uninformed ones, dear brother.
You say that divisions between Kashmiri Indians and rest of India yawned and fissured much before Arundhati spoke about the issue. I am a student of Social Sciences and it is one of the most basic concepts in Social Science that relations are very dynamic and not static. In case of social relations nothing definitive can be said. For example neither of the following statements, 'Kashmiri Indians hate rest of India' or 'Kashmiri Indians love rest of India' can be said to be accurate. What alone can be said is that there exists a relationship between Kashmiri Indians and rest of India which bends towards hatred or love as the case may be. What I said in my previous post was that it was very unfortunate that Arundhati was contributing towards bending the relationship towards hatred while many people are trying hard to bend it towards love.
You say that people criticize India's political system and power structure and not Indian people when they refer to Kashmir. You have really missed the point, dear brother. I reiterate that India is the name of its people. When you criticize India, one billion people would stand up against you because they identify themselves with the word 'India'. India has had a long tradition of truth, non-violence, brotherhood, love, unity, diversity, selflessness and so on since the dawn of the civilization through the ancient, medieval and then the modern period. I tried to explain this to my friend Govind too, if you have read my posts addressed to him. By maligning and blaming India, remember that you are maligning and blaming its people who would immediately try to prove you wrong. Try blaming exactly those who are responsible and you will see most Indians supporting you and coming by your side in increasing pressure on those responsible.
You give me the number of 80,000 people dead. Do you even know, my dear brother that this figure is sum of all deaths including those caused due to militants (which by the way stands at a number greater than 40,000, this figure being an estimate of G N Azad a Kashmiri Muslim himself), those caused due to Pakistan's offensive in Kargil and before that, those caused due to regular ceasefire violations by the Pakistan Army, those caused by Indian forces accidentally in militant encounters, those that happened during enforced strikes called by separatists and those caused by illegally by fanatics and brutal officers in Indian security forces. Why then, do you isolate a single entity to receive all the ashes of the fire?
Finally, you probably missed one of my questions exactly pertaining to the issue of Kashmir in my last post. I reiterate it here: "The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today."
No goodbyes from my side too this time, dear brother.
With highest regards, best wishes and love,
Ritesh
Dear brother (a.savage),
Sorry for the late reply. I am unable to access the internet daily.
Thank you so much for your loving and emotionally touching last post. And thank you for considering my side too. Probably for the first time in my life, somebody was so far yet so near to me. You may be correct when you say that we could be affected subconsciously.
But still I request you to consider my side without thinking that I may be affected subconsciously and so may be biased in my views. I try my best to remain absolutely unbiased. At the same time, you also need to objectively consider that you too may be biased at least slightly. Furthermore, you also need to consider that the Kashmiri protesters are affected subconsciously much more than what is possible for me (because of poisonous environment that they live in with daily instigation, communal incitement, false news and propaganda and so on; you need to read more about Kashmir from both the sides to gain a deep insight into the situation there. This, I have done a lot)
You gave me example of terrorism against the British in the Indian Freedom Struggle. My dear brother, I strongly believe even that was grossly incorrect and most Indians at that time believed it to be an incorrect way of struggle. That is why most of the nation followed Mahatma Gandhi who criticized the revolutionaries.
You doubt the fact that S M Sahai (the Inspector General) is almost a messiah for Kashmir. Again I strongly urge you to read more about him and Kashmir and how a large percentage of population in Kashmir actually deeply respects him before thinking that I was wrong. Sahai was previously in charge of Ganderbal District in Kashmir in 1990s. While the rest of Kashmir witnessed around 10 % voter turnout, Ganderbal regularly witnessed >60 % voter turnout because people believe in Sahai. When in Ganderbal, he also imprisoned his own boss for fake encounter which is one of the main reasons why her has earned respect of a large number of Kashmiris. Informed views are always better than uninformed ones, dear brother.
You say that divisions between Kashmiri Indians and rest of India yawned and fissured much before Arundhati spoke about the issue. I am a student of Social Sciences and it is one of the most basic concepts in Social Science that relations are very dynamic and not static. In case of social relations nothing definitive can be said. For example neither of the following statements, ‘Kashmiri Indians hate rest of India’ or ‘Kashmiri Indians love rest of India’ can be said to be accurate. What alone can be said is that there exists a relationship between Kashmiri Indians and rest of India which bends towards hatred or love as the case may be. What I said in my previous post was that it was very unfortunate that Arundhati was contributing towards bending the relationship towards hatred while many people are trying hard to bend it towards love.
You say that people criticize India’s political system and power structure and not Indian people when they refer to Kashmir. You have really missed the point, dear brother. I reiterate that India is the name of its people. When you criticize India, one billion people would stand up against you because they identify themselves with the word ‘India’. India has had a long tradition of truth, non-violence, brotherhood, love, unity, diversity, selflessness and so on since the dawn of the civilization through the ancient, medieval and then the modern period. I tried to explain this to my friend Govind too, if you have read my posts addressed to him. By maligning and blaming India, remember that you are maligning and blaming its people who would immediately try to prove you wrong. Try blaming exactly those who are responsible and you will see most Indians supporting you and coming by your side in increasing pressure on those responsible.
You give me the number of 80,000 people dead. Do you even know, my dear brother that this figure is sum of all deaths including those caused due to militants (which by the way stands at a number greater than 40,000, this figure being an estimate of G N Azad a Kashmiri Muslim himself), those caused due to Pakistan’s offensive in Kargil and before that, those caused due to regular ceasefire violations by the Pakistan Army, those caused by Indian forces accidentally in militant encounters, those that happened during enforced strikes called by separatists and those caused by illegally by fanatics and brutal officers in Indian security forces. Why then, do you isolate a single entity to receive all the ashes of the fire?
Finally, you probably missed one of my questions exactly pertaining to the issue of Kashmir in my last post. I reiterate it here: “The original inhabitants of Kashmir who loved Indian and wanted to live with India massacred and driven away in hundreds of thousands. Tomorrow, if India captures U.S. and massacres and drives away the people of U.S. and then holds a plebiscite resulting in merger of U.S. with India, will you not protest? This is exactly the situation of Kashmir today.”
No goodbyes from my side too this time, dear brother.
With highest regards, best wishes and love,
Ritesh
Today some 'so called peaceful agitators' set on fire a school bus belonging to a minority school.
They also issued posters threatening those who don't follow the hartal. Is this a popular movement?
Today some ‘so called peaceful agitators’ set on fire a school bus belonging to a minority school.
They also issued posters threatening those who don’t follow the hartal. Is this a popular movement?
Ritesh,
Don't try to drive points to A. Savage – useless wasting your time – He is a Terrorist Friendly person and is playing a different tune.
I perfectly understand where you are coming from and this is where we tell AI, HRW and other HR institutes to look at HR issues from the peace loving Humans point of view.
Bottom line – as you correctly said, those guys who burn buses, throw stones and distract day to day lives of innocent civilians should be dealt with severely. They oppose peace and the hand of peace given to them just because their mentality is to create war and havoc. This is a mental disorder and nothing to do with freedom fighting. True freedom fighters were the honorable Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela like people. It never was a Prabakaran or an Osama Bin Laden. They are Terrorists and have different agendas. The day you get rid of them, the whole place becomes peaceful – take Sri Lanka for example…
I am with you as far as this post is concerned – as much as you try to settle things decently and peacefully with these rioters, if they are not willing to, you need to ensure they are gone in whatever manner because that is where the rest of the population (THE MAJORITY in all cases) will live in peace.
This is what we urge HR organizations to realize too… It is not what is said in the HR books, but, logical thinking that would save human lives from Terrorists.. Ain't it ?
Ritesh,
Don’t try to drive points to A. Savage – useless wasting your time – He is a Terrorist Friendly person and is playing a different tune.
I perfectly understand where you are coming from and this is where we tell AI, HRW and other HR institutes to look at HR issues from the peace loving Humans point of view.
Bottom line – as you correctly said, those guys who burn buses, throw stones and distract day to day lives of innocent civilians should be dealt with severely. They oppose peace and the hand of peace given to them just because their mentality is to create war and havoc. This is a mental disorder and nothing to do with freedom fighting. True freedom fighters were the honorable Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela like people. It never was a Prabakaran or an Osama Bin Laden. They are Terrorists and have different agendas. The day you get rid of them, the whole place becomes peaceful – take Sri Lanka for example…
I am with you as far as this post is concerned – as much as you try to settle things decently and peacefully with these rioters, if they are not willing to, you need to ensure they are gone in whatever manner because that is where the rest of the population (THE MAJORITY in all cases) will live in peace.
This is what we urge HR organizations to realize too… It is not what is said in the HR books, but, logical thinking that would save human lives from Terrorists.. Ain’t it ?
Dear Hummer !,
Thanks for your post and for understanding me.
The main problem with many HR organizations is their dislike for the system of nation-states. They don't seem to understand that although problems remain with nation-states, the system has evolved over thousands of years and is significantly better than small tribes ruling themselves and fighting each other. No doubt, we should incessantly try for removing problems that are already there but many HR organizations and activists somehow seem to stand up for disintegration of nation-states, something that has almost always led to large scale deaths, riots, mass movement of people, poverty, misery, unemployment and all that the HR organizations proclaim to be fighting. Nowhere is this more true than in Kashmir.
You are absolutely right when you say that violent protesters are psychologically ill people and they almost have nothing to do with the qualities of love, compassion, unity and brotherhood. What else can be said about people who worship mass murderers (like Bitta Karate in the case of Kashmir who confessed to murdering 22 people on getting orders from Pakistan; still Bitta Karate today is freely living in Kashmir and is being worshiped by the violent protesters there)? People like Prabhakaran and Bitta Karate are nothing less than a disgrace to the people who they claim to represent.
From what I have seen over the years, many HR organizations and activists seem to become increasingly biased with time (one of the worst example of this is Ms. Arundhati Roy and Mr. Gautam Navlakha who sadly still get support from other HR activists). They do not understand that when they support people creating political upheaval and destabilizing nation-states, the HR organizations are contributing towards dealing a death blow to us (the poor people of that nation). We are usually already neglected by the economy and market forces and political instability contributes to further neglect of the poor. Human rights are definitely important, but destabilization of a nation is not the solution at all.
Thank you again for your post.
With warm regards, best wishes and love,
Ritesh
Dear Hummer !,
Thanks for your post and for understanding me.
The main problem with many HR organizations is their dislike for the system of nation-states. They don’t seem to understand that although problems remain with nation-states, the system has evolved over thousands of years and is significantly better than small tribes ruling themselves and fighting each other. No doubt, we should incessantly try for removing problems that are already there but many HR organizations and activists somehow seem to stand up for disintegration of nation-states, something that has almost always led to large scale deaths, riots, mass movement of people, poverty, misery, unemployment and all that the HR organizations proclaim to be fighting. Nowhere is this more true than in Kashmir.
You are absolutely right when you say that violent protesters are psychologically ill people and they almost have nothing to do with the qualities of love, compassion, unity and brotherhood. What else can be said about people who worship mass murderers (like Bitta Karate in the case of Kashmir who confessed to murdering 22 people on getting orders from Pakistan; still Bitta Karate today is freely living in Kashmir and is being worshiped by the violent protesters there)? People like Prabhakaran and Bitta Karate are nothing less than a disgrace to the people who they claim to represent.
From what I have seen over the years, many HR organizations and activists seem to become increasingly biased with time (one of the worst example of this is Ms. Arundhati Roy and Mr. Gautam Navlakha who sadly still get support from other HR activists). They do not understand that when they support people creating political upheaval and destabilizing nation-states, the HR organizations are contributing towards dealing a death blow to us (the poor people of that nation). We are usually already neglected by the economy and market forces and political instability contributes to further neglect of the poor. Human rights are definitely important, but destabilization of a nation is not the solution at all.
Thank you again for your post.
With warm regards, best wishes and love,
Ritesh
Ritesh !!
What more can I say than "I totally – 100%.. Agree with you" !!!!!!
I personally feel that fighting for hunger and shelter of Humans world over would be a more humanitarian act than trying to topple governments or pressurize governments…. There are millions world over in need of food and shelter and it would be a more worthy cause than trying to save Mentally Sick Rioters and Terrorists… I mean the fight basically is to spare their lives and send them to Jail Alive… Further Burden on Citizens of the countries to feed a mentally sick terrorist in jail… :O !!
I totally agree that when moving forward, there will be people who would feel left behind, mistreated or neglected. But, Terrorism is not the way to get attention – Gandhi's way is the way for good attention… It's sad that Kashmir, being a part of India has not learned this great lesson from the great G !
Ritesh !!
What more can I say than “I totally – 100%.. Agree with you” !!!!!!
I personally feel that fighting for hunger and shelter of Humans world over would be a more humanitarian act than trying to topple governments or pressurize governments…. There are millions world over in need of food and shelter and it would be a more worthy cause than trying to save Mentally Sick Rioters and Terrorists… I mean the fight basically is to spare their lives and send them to Jail Alive… Further Burden on Citizens of the countries to feed a mentally sick terrorist in jail… :O !!
I totally agree that when moving forward, there will be people who would feel left behind, mistreated or neglected. But, Terrorism is not the way to get attention – Gandhi’s way is the way for good attention… It’s sad that Kashmir, being a part of India has not learned this great lesson from the great G !
Dear Hummer !
Thank you so much for agreeing with me (only one of the bloggers in this post who has agreed).
I fully agree that doing something for the hungry and the starving billions is extremely urgent and needs international effort of unprecedented magnitude.
The violent protesters in Kashmir today are far, far away from Gandhi. They neither cherish any ideology, nor do they have any interest in solving the real problems. There is just childish ranting, almost nothing else. Furthermore, they worship Mass Murderers like Bitta Karate and Maqbool Bhat. I am really astonished at how such people get support from so called Human Rights Activists (I am not talking about Govind here, the blogger of this blog-post).
With best wishes and love,
Ritesh
Dear Hummer !
Thank you so much for agreeing with me (only one of the bloggers in this post who has agreed).
I fully agree that doing something for the hungry and the starving billions is extremely urgent and needs international effort of unprecedented magnitude.
The violent protesters in Kashmir today are far, far away from Gandhi. They neither cherish any ideology, nor do they have any interest in solving the real problems. There is just childish ranting, almost nothing else. Furthermore, they worship Mass Murderers like Bitta Karate and Maqbool Bhat. I am really astonished at how such people get support from so called Human Rights Activists (I am not talking about Govind here, the blogger of this blog-post).
With best wishes and love,
Ritesh