Breaking News! Human Rights Violations Piss People Off

There has been a flare up in violence in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) in the past few weeks, mainly due to the recent killing of a Kashmiri youth, Muzaffar Ahmad Bhat, in the state’s capital of Srinagar and an incident where the police opened fire on stone throwers in Anantnag, killing three.

The killing of Muzaffar Ahmad Bhat in Srinagar is the latest string of deaths attributed to Indian security forces.  The killings have triggered renewed fears that Kashmir will return to the dark days of an insurgency that killed thousands in the 1990s and early 2000s.  More immediately, the continued human rights violations have triggered large scale protests that has led to more deaths.

The J&K state government and lately the central government in Delhi have made all sorts of pathetic excuses as to why it might be that there have been protests going on in the weeks, blaming it on Lashkar-i-Toiba or some other terrorist group.  But, if you think about it, why wouldn’t people be upset and protest if there were alleged killings by security forces?  Why does have to be “instigated” by Lashkar-i-Toiba?

The Kashmiri government then issued a mostly ignored set of media restrictions aimed at controlling information.  Now, the Indian Army has stepped in following a curfew in the entire Kashmir Valley.  That seems to have stemmed the immediate violence, but seems troubling in the long term.

Instead of making excuses, the Kashmir state government and the Government of India must take immediate steps to arrest and prosecute those that are accused of perpetrating the violence against civilians.  Doing so will go some way to easing the tensions in the Kashmir Valley.  It’s not the only thing, but when security forces commit human rights violations, people get pissed off.

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66 thoughts on “Breaking News! Human Rights Violations Piss People Off

  1. i am glad atleast this issue is brought up here!

    we are facing terror every micro second! to be honest!
    we are witnessing massacres everyday, mass murders, gang rapes, abductions, mass arrests, destruction of property, continous curfews, ban on media. restrictions and complete ban in basic communication media like sms, voice calls, and even internet! :@

    now, i personally have a hope.! from amnesty
    please help us to come out of these everyday-tradgedies! and help us a solution from barbaric and undoubtedly the worlds largest fascist regime, the butchers land, INDIA!

    just a common man, a common kashmiri!
    asking for a birth right! to FREEDOM!

  2. is this wat democracy is all about ? india claims to be a democratic nation .. n claims to have freedom of speech n of expression .. if thats the case than we have every right to protest against the killings,rapes,missing ppl , fake encounters , curfews.. n wen we do that we are killed in cold blooded murder .. our dead are kicked in front of our eyes .. we cant even mourn.. a fetus that dies in his mothers womb becoz she cudnt be taken to the hospital is lying in a closed box in his uncles arms waiting to be burried since 12 hours .. is this not the human right violation … we just want world to see wat is happening in kashmir .. we dnt want any aid becoz that wud again go to our corrupt politicians ..we just want to be heard

  3. i appreciate mr.Govind acharya for showing a true humane responsibility and standing by "the truth" at a time when india is trying its best to curb and discard truth and facts and figures.people in kashmir are going through the most difficult time that this generation had ever witnessed,.there is no food,no medicines…all the basic necessities have been trampled.this will not help as yesterday it were our parents who had suferred and here today it is us,and now it has increased the anti india sentiments among us,the atrocities that our people are going through has divided us more frome india..before there might have been some chances of patch up buh unfortunately now its minimal..and they hav poisoned us agaiins them now…i wish you people could come and see the situation here..it would shake you ..we need world to understand the situation and stand by us…to protect themselves india is now calling us college going students terrorists…we are not..but am scared they are making us…

  4. Thanks a lot Amnesty , especially Mr.Govind for posting this , we Kashmiris are being killed here as dumb cattles , 20 innocent Kashmiris fell to the bullets of Indian forces , and we are being curfewed for more than 12 days now… We aren't being allowed go to even hospitals , media has been banned here , sms service has been banned here ., India wants peace here but we want solution , we all know that Kashmir is a disputed territory its not an integral part of India , we are being suppressed and ruled here by force, our peaceful protests are being turned into violent ones by Indian forces … We Kashmiris need Amnesties support .. Help up ..

  5. Hi all,

    There will be more from Amnesty about Kashmir in the near future. AI visited Kashmir about 6 weeks ago and had an opportunity to talk to the victims of human rights violations and members of human rights groups working in the Kashmir Valley.

  6. Thank you Mr Govind Acharya,
    I urge to all Human rights Oraganisations to take serious note about the worst human rights violations in Kashmir. We need urgent attention and resolution of long standing problem. Indian armed Forces are directly shooting at innocent protesters, killings youths of kashmir, entering the residential quarters at silent hours in mid night and commiting war crimes. Womens are terrified with wounded children in their arms, youth with amputated limbs, demolished homes, Indian forces are on rampage yet world is silent. PLEASE SAVE KASHMIR

  7. i am glad atleast this issue is brought up here!

    we are facing terror every micro second! to be honest!
    we are witnessing massacres everyday, mass murders, gang rapes, abductions, mass arrests, destruction of property, continous curfews, ban on media. restrictions and complete ban in basic communication media like sms, voice calls, and even internet! :@

    now, i personally have a hope.! from amnesty
    please help us to come out of these everyday-tradgedies! and help us a solution from barbaric and undoubtedly the worlds largest fascist regime, the butchers land, INDIA!

    just a common man, a common kashmiri!
    asking for a birth right! to FREEDOM!

  8. is this wat democracy is all about ? india claims to be a democratic nation .. n claims to have freedom of speech n of expression .. if thats the case than we have every right to protest against the killings,rapes,missing ppl , fake encounters , curfews.. n wen we do that we are killed in cold blooded murder .. our dead are kicked in front of our eyes .. we cant even mourn.. a fetus that dies in his mothers womb becoz she cudnt be taken to the hospital is lying in a closed box in his uncles arms waiting to be burried since 12 hours .. is this not the human right violation … we just want world to see wat is happening in kashmir .. we dnt want any aid becoz that wud again go to our corrupt politicians ..we just want to be heard

  9. i appreciate mr.Govind acharya for showing a true humane responsibility and standing by “the truth” at a time when india is trying its best to curb and discard truth and facts and figures.people in kashmir are going through the most difficult time that this generation had ever witnessed,.there is no food,no medicines…all the basic necessities have been trampled.this will not help as yesterday it were our parents who had suferred and here today it is us,and now it has increased the anti india sentiments among us,the atrocities that our people are going through has divided us more frome india..before there might have been some chances of patch up buh unfortunately now its minimal..and they hav poisoned us agaiins them now…i wish you people could come and see the situation here..it would shake you ..we need world to understand the situation and stand by us…to protect themselves india is now calling us college going students terrorists…we are not..but am scared they are making us…

  10. Amnesty should take action urgently.it is the only hope for the people of kashmir.we appeal to all people of the world to take ction worldwide and ask their countries to protest against India for these gross human right violations.the world has remained quite for too long a time at the cost of more than 100000 lives,more than 10000 dis appearances.,thousands of rapes and certainly more than 200000 injured people with thousands incapicated for life.

  11. Thanks a lot Amnesty , especially Mr.Govind for posting this , we Kashmiris are being killed here as dumb cattles , 20 innocent Kashmiris fell to the bullets of Indian forces , and we are being curfewed for more than 12 days now… We aren’t being allowed go to even hospitals , media has been banned here , sms service has been banned here ., India wants peace here but we want solution , we all know that Kashmir is a disputed territory its not an integral part of India , we are being suppressed and ruled here by force, our peaceful protests are being turned into violent ones by Indian forces … We Kashmiris need Amnesties support .. Help up ..

  12. Hi all,

    There will be more from Amnesty about Kashmir in the near future. AI visited Kashmir about 6 weeks ago and had an opportunity to talk to the victims of human rights violations and members of human rights groups working in the Kashmir Valley.

  13. Thank you Mr Govind Acharya,
    I urge to all Human rights Oraganisations to take serious note about the worst human rights violations in Kashmir. We need urgent attention and resolution of long standing problem. Indian armed Forces are directly shooting at innocent protesters, killings youths of kashmir, entering the residential quarters at silent hours in mid night and commiting war crimes. Womens are terrified with wounded children in their arms, youth with amputated limbs, demolished homes, Indian forces are on rampage yet world is silent. PLEASE SAVE KASHMIR

  14. 8.rs, this is what a bullet coasts and this is what a human life in kashmir coasts..last tym Nexals killed 36 army men and indian media telecast that for days and nyts but i wonder what happens to them when their same army kills our innocent teen aged boys and girls, who have no gun, no weapon in their hands, maximum if they have , its stone, which they use for their freedom purpose, freedom which we say is everybodies right, but i wonder what happens to this right ,when it comes about kashmiries…kashmiries who have been killed since past many more years.. millions of kashmiries have been killed either for their no fault, or for they asked for the human right of their freedom.

  15. Amnesty should take action urgently.it is the only hope for the people of kashmir.we appeal to all people of the world to take ction worldwide and ask their countries to protest against India for these gross human right violations.the world has remained quite for too long a time at the cost of more than 100000 lives,more than 10000 dis appearances.,thousands of rapes and certainly more than 200000 injured people with thousands incapicated for life.

  16. Let me answer you from the best of my knowledge:

    1. True – Army is mix of kind hearted and hard people. And I know some human right violations happened there.

    2. I know, not all Kashmiri's are terrorist. But most are Anti-India.

    3. You said Kashmir "was never a part of India" …… Indeed it was……was it the part of China before? or was it the part of Russia or USA?

    4. You are saying "our people" are dying…. I guess you don't consider yourself a Indian National, then Indian Army is army of a foreign nation for you isn't it?

    5. ""Army is welcoming you with bullets"" – The soldiers has joined the Indian Army because they are external patriot. And no patriot will tolerate you slogans "HUM KYA CHAHTE – AZAADEE"" and "JEE LE JEE LE PAKISTAN" – please note that Pakistan is "our" ememy, and we will not tolerate it.

    6. We have already lost a part of our country on the basic of religion, and under no circumstances we will tolerate this AZAADEE.

    8. Please note that whenever and wherever, there will a movement against the Nation….. the common and innocent people will have to suffer.

    Punjabee's suffered it in 1984, North-East state has suffered it. And since when the anti-national movement closed in these states…..there is no problem there.

    9. I don't you are pro-pakistan or not, but if you are ….. and your FRIEND pakistan is so much concerned about Kashmiris then plz answer my one question – WHY DID PAKISTAN GIFTED A PART OF KASHMIR TO CHINA?

    10. Please answer, why the problem is only in the valley……not in Jammu and Ladakh…..why these parts are pro-India?

    11. If you think my soldiers are cruel then please search ""Tiananmen Square protests of 1989"".

    Lastly, I am with the Kashmirs if they are considering themselves as part of India. If not then please don't complain, coz then we are a foriegn nation for you…is't it.

  17. I always thought it was funny how commentators and academics believe that allowing land to be transferred to the Hindu temple trust was in some way "inflammatory". It smacks of a "majority rules" mentality on behalf not only the populace and the chief minister Omar Abdullah, but also the Congress Party at large.

    If Hindus are a minority in the region, shouldn't they're right to practice their religion be protected?

    For example, Kashmir recently passed a law stating that Hindu pilgrims must pay a fee for buses entering the Vaishno Devi temple. That temple has been a place of pilgrimage for Hindus for hundreds of years!

    Muslims are paid a subsidy by the government to travel to Mecca for the Haj pilgrimage but Hindus are taxed for visiting their own shrines?

    How is there any justice here? There is none, but the majority in this area are attempting revenge, which is not the place of government.

    Justice is what is needed most in this area.

  18. Mr.RK , WE ARE TALKING OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HERE , 98 THOUSAND KASHMIRIS HAVE LOST THERE LIVES , DO YOU KNOW WHY ? BECAUSE KASHMIR ISN'T A PART OF INDIA WE WANT FREEDOM.,AND IF INDIA CONSIDERS KASHMIR AS ITS INTEGRAL PART THAN WHY THE RESOLUTION OF KASHMIR HAS REACHED TO UNITED NATIONS , WHY 800000 INDIAN FORCES HAVE BEEN KEPT HERE BY INDIA FOR ONLY 400000 KASHMIRIS , WHY ARE WE BEING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY IN COLD BLOODED MURDER OR ELSE IN FAKE ENCOUNTERS , WHY DIDN'T INDIAN GOVERMENT SEND ARMY TO KASHMIR TO TERRORISE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF KASHMIR WHO HAVE GOT NO GUNS OR BOMBS LIKE NAXALS , WHY DIDN'T INDIA SENT ARMY THERE ? AND IF CONSIDERS ITSELF A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THAN WHY HAVE THEY BANNED MEDIA , SMS SERVICES ETC ETC … AND LET MAKE CLEAR THIS TO YOU , NO ONE IS KASHMIR IS PRO PAKISTANI AND NOR WE ARE PRO INDIAN .. WE ARE KASHMIRIS AND WE WANT FREEDOM , i want Amnesty to help us as soon as they can …

  19. Read why did indian goverment (no didn't) send army to kashmir to terrorise innocent people of kashmir who no guns or bombs like naxals ..

  20. And Mr . RK , I think It will be nice if we don't bring our religious matters here..

  21. Mr.RK , WE ARE TALKING OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HERE , 98 THOUSAND KASHMIRIS HAVE LOST THERE LIVES , DO YOU KNOW WHY ? BECAUSE KASHMIR ISN'T A PART OF INDIA WE WANT FREEDOM.,AND IF INDIA CONSIDERS KASHMIR AS ITS INTEGRAL PART THAN WHY THE RESOLUTION OF KASHMIR HAS REACHED TO UNITED NATIONS , WHY 800000 INDIAN FORCES HAVE BEEN KEPT HERE BY INDIA FOR ONLY 400000 KASHMIRIS , WHY ARE WE BEING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY IN COLD BLOODED MURDER OR ELSE IN FAKE ENCOUNTERS , MINOR GIRLS ARE BEING RAPED BY INDIAN FORCES AND NOT TO TALK OF CUSTODIAL DISAPPEARANCES ITS A LONG LIST , WHY DID INDIAN GOVERMENT SEND ARMY TO KASHMIR TO TERRORISE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF KASHMIR WHO HAVE GOT NO GUNS OR BOMBS LIKE NAXALS , WHY DIDN'T INDIA SENT ARMY THERE IN NAXAL AFFECTED AREAS BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE OWN PEOPLE , AND IF CONSIDERS ITSELF A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THAN WHY HAVE THEY BANNED MEDIA , SMS SERVICES ETC ETC …? AND LET ME MAKE CLEAR THIS TO YOU AND TO EVERY INDIAN , NO ONE IN KASHMIR IS PRO PAKISTANI OR PRO INDIAN .. WE ARE KASHMIRIS AND WE WANT FREEDOM , i want Amnesty Internation And United Nations to help us as soon as they can and show some solidarity with us …

  22. @Yasir Sultan

    1. The Indian army stepped in the Valley of Kashmir, only after 1989, when the militancy started.

    2. The UN resolution is that Pakistan should leave Kashmir ( and so does China now) and only then can a plebiscite be held. We can also hold similar plebiscite in Baluchistan, NWFP.

    3. I don’t know you consider India as your country or not but we consider Jammu and Kashmir, our land. And we will not let you divide it.

    4. Jammu and Kashmir is as belongs to us as it belongs to you. We have not occupied this land. Pakistan was the one who attacked at J&K in 1948, and then your king asked our help. Our Army is protecting this land from Pakistan since 1947.

    5. “Protest in Punjab and Lucknow’” –People were protesting because of the price hike, you are most welcome to protest for this cause. Nobody in Punjab and Lucknow was asking for AZAADI.

    6. “We are neither anti-India nor pro Pakistan” – Oh….really…..That’s why you proudly shout “JEE LE JEE LE Pakistan”…. And your so called most respected leader Syed Ali Shah Gilani is desperate to merge with Pakistan. Please, don’t lie to yourself.

    7. ""Mr . RK , I think It will be nice if we don’t bring our religious matters here""
    – Exactly, I don't want to…….. as I have some Muslim friends. Don't force me….

    Ram

  23. 8.rs, this is what a bullet coasts and this is what a human life in kashmir coasts..last tym Nexals killed 36 army men and indian media telecast that for days and nyts but i wonder what happens to them when their same army kills our innocent teen aged boys and girls, who have no gun, no weapon in their hands, maximum if they have , its stone, which they use for their freedom purpose, freedom which we say is everybodies right, but i wonder what happens to this right ,when it comes about kashmiries…kashmiries who have been killed since past many more years.. millions of kashmiries have been killed either for their no fault, or for they asked for the human right of their freedom.

  24. Let me answer you from the best of my knowledge:

    1. True – Army is mix of kind hearted and hard people. And I know some human right violations happened there.

    2. I know, not all Kashmiri’s are terrorist. But most are Anti-India.

    3. You said Kashmir “was never a part of India” …… Indeed it was……was it the part of China before? or was it the part of Russia or USA?

    4. You are saying “our people” are dying…. I guess you don’t consider yourself a Indian National, then Indian Army is army of a foreign nation for you isn’t it?

    5. “”Army is welcoming you with bullets”” – The soldiers has joined the Indian Army because they are external patriot. And no patriot will tolerate you slogans “HUM KYA CHAHTE – AZAADEE”” and “JEE LE JEE LE PAKISTAN” – please note that Pakistan is “our” ememy, and we will not tolerate it.

    6. We have already lost a part of our country on the basic of religion, and under no circumstances we will tolerate this AZAADEE.

    8. Please note that whenever and wherever, there will a movement against the Nation….. the common and innocent people will have to suffer.

    Punjabee’s suffered it in 1984, North-East state has suffered it. And since when the anti-national movement closed in these states…..there is no problem there.

    9. I don’t you are pro-pakistan or not, but if you are ….. and your FRIEND pakistan is so much concerned about Kashmiris then plz answer my one question – WHY DID PAKISTAN GIFTED A PART OF KASHMIR TO CHINA?

    10. Please answer, why the problem is only in the valley……not in Jammu and Ladakh…..why these parts are pro-India?

    11. If you think my soldiers are cruel then please search “”Tiananmen Square protests of 1989″”.

    Lastly, I am with the Kashmirs if they are considering themselves as part of India. If not then please don’t complain, coz then we are a foriegn nation for you…is’t it.

  25. I always thought it was funny how commentators and academics believe that allowing land to be transferred to the Hindu temple trust was in some way “inflammatory”. It smacks of a “majority rules” mentality on behalf not only the populace and the chief minister Omar Abdullah, but also the Congress Party at large.

    If Hindus are a minority in the region, shouldn’t they’re right to practice their religion be protected?

    For example, Kashmir recently passed a law stating that Hindu pilgrims must pay a fee for buses entering the Vaishno Devi temple. That temple has been a place of pilgrimage for Hindus for hundreds of years!

    Muslims are paid a subsidy by the government to travel to Mecca for the Haj pilgrimage but Hindus are taxed for visiting their own shrines?

    How is there any justice here? There is none, but the majority in this area are attempting revenge, which is not the place of government.

    Justice is what is needed most in this area.

  26. Mr.RK , WE ARE TALKING OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HERE , 98 THOUSAND KASHMIRIS HAVE LOST THERE LIVES , DO YOU KNOW WHY ? BECAUSE KASHMIR ISN’T A PART OF INDIA WE WANT FREEDOM.,AND IF INDIA CONSIDERS KASHMIR AS ITS INTEGRAL PART THAN WHY THE RESOLUTION OF KASHMIR HAS REACHED TO UNITED NATIONS , WHY 800000 INDIAN FORCES HAVE BEEN KEPT HERE BY INDIA FOR ONLY 400000 KASHMIRIS , WHY ARE WE BEING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY IN COLD BLOODED MURDER OR ELSE IN FAKE ENCOUNTERS , WHY DIDN’T INDIAN GOVERMENT SEND ARMY TO KASHMIR TO TERRORISE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF KASHMIR WHO HAVE GOT NO GUNS OR BOMBS LIKE NAXALS , WHY DIDN’T INDIA SENT ARMY THERE ? AND IF CONSIDERS ITSELF A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THAN WHY HAVE THEY BANNED MEDIA , SMS SERVICES ETC ETC … AND LET MAKE CLEAR THIS TO YOU , NO ONE IS KASHMIR IS PRO PAKISTANI AND NOR WE ARE PRO INDIAN .. WE ARE KASHMIRIS AND WE WANT FREEDOM , i want Amnesty to help us as soon as they can …

  27. Read why did indian goverment (no didn’t) send army to kashmir to terrorise innocent people of kashmir who no guns or bombs like naxals ..

  28. And Mr . RK , I think It will be nice if we don’t bring our religious matters here..

  29. Mr.RK , WE ARE TALKING OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HERE , 98 THOUSAND KASHMIRIS HAVE LOST THERE LIVES , DO YOU KNOW WHY ? BECAUSE KASHMIR ISN’T A PART OF INDIA WE WANT FREEDOM.,AND IF INDIA CONSIDERS KASHMIR AS ITS INTEGRAL PART THAN WHY THE RESOLUTION OF KASHMIR HAS REACHED TO UNITED NATIONS , WHY 800000 INDIAN FORCES HAVE BEEN KEPT HERE BY INDIA FOR ONLY 400000 KASHMIRIS , WHY ARE WE BEING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY IN COLD BLOODED MURDER OR ELSE IN FAKE ENCOUNTERS , MINOR GIRLS ARE BEING RAPED BY INDIAN FORCES AND NOT TO TALK OF CUSTODIAL DISAPPEARANCES ITS A LONG LIST , WHY DID INDIAN GOVERMENT SEND ARMY TO KASHMIR TO TERRORISE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF KASHMIR WHO HAVE GOT NO GUNS OR BOMBS LIKE NAXALS , WHY DIDN’T INDIA SENT ARMY THERE IN NAXAL AFFECTED AREAS BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE OWN PEOPLE , AND IF CONSIDERS ITSELF A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THAN WHY HAVE THEY BANNED MEDIA , SMS SERVICES ETC ETC …? AND LET ME MAKE CLEAR THIS TO YOU AND TO EVERY INDIAN , NO ONE IN KASHMIR IS PRO PAKISTANI OR PRO INDIAN .. WE ARE KASHMIRIS AND WE WANT FREEDOM , i want Amnesty Internation And United Nations to help us as soon as they can and show some solidarity with us …

  30. What force force , i think you forgot how hindus massacred muslims in gujrat , how babri masjid was broken down by hindus , you guys didn't even spared pregnant womens in gujsat they were also raped ,, babies were burnt alive along with there mothers there , and take this from me Kashmir neither was and neither will be an integral part of india , you indians think that the world communities are fools and you are cunning ones i pity on you … Yeah our king had asked help that time but that doesn't mean that you are going to occupy our land forcefully now and call it like an idiot indian that its an integral part of Kashmir … Go back to history it seems to me you have been weak in your history subject …God willingly india will soon pack there luggages from Kashmir … You didn't answered many of my questions like why are we being killed everyday here in cold blooded murders and in fake encounters why are our mothers and sisters are being raped by indian forces why ? Is your country consider itself a big democracy than why is media fourth pillar of democracy is being banned here ? .,..

  31. @Yasir Sultan

    1. The Indian army stepped in the Valley of Kashmir, only after 1989, when the militancy started.

    2. The UN resolution is that Pakistan should leave Kashmir ( and so does China now) and only then can a plebiscite be held. We can also hold similar plebiscite in Baluchistan, NWFP.

    3. I don’t know you consider India as your country or not but we consider Jammu and Kashmir, our land. And we will not let you divide it.

    4. Jammu and Kashmir is as belongs to us as it belongs to you. We have not occupied this land. Pakistan was the one who attacked at J&K in 1948, and then your king asked our help. Our Army is protecting this land from Pakistan since 1947.

    5. “Protest in Punjab and Lucknow’” –People were protesting because of the price hike, you are most welcome to protest for this cause. Nobody in Punjab and Lucknow was asking for AZAADI.

    6. “We are neither anti-India nor pro Pakistan” – Oh….really…..That’s why you proudly shout “JEE LE JEE LE Pakistan”…. And your so called most respected leader Syed Ali Shah Gilani is desperate to merge with Pakistan. Please, don’t lie to yourself.

    7. “”Mr . RK , I think It will be nice if we don’t bring our religious matters here””
    – Exactly, I don’t want to…….. as I have some Muslim friends. Don’t force me….

    Ram

  32. Indian government, the ruling party at center and opposition all sing in unison that Kashmir is an integral part of India. To break their myth I put forth these arguments to them. IF KASHMIR IS AN 'INTEGRAL' PART OF INDIA THEN WHY……

    1. More then 13 civilians were killed by the Paramilitary forces since June,11 of this year alone and more than 100 thousand people were killed since last 10 or 15 years.

    Refutation in Advance (RIA): To this they reply that- these civilians are not civilians at all, they carry stones in their hands and provoke the Paramilitary forces…………. If this is the case then why- in Mumbai, Delhi etc you use water tanks to disperse the protestors (who carry the same stones) while here you don't find any other option but to open fire at the angry mobs and the bullets strike their upper body, which means your fire to kill and not to stop the angry protestors.

    2. Paramilitary forces here are given special powers (like AFSPA) to lash out their confusion and madness at the civilians.

    RIA: To this they reply that- Conditions in Kashmir are abnormal and 'security' forces have to be given some additional powers so that they may defend themselves and the people…….. If this is the case then why- These forces are harassing the civilians, they murder the innocents, blow up the houses of people in the name of 'encounter', abuse and even rape our sisters…. Had these forces been as a 'security' for us then why are they against us. And from what are they providing us security? The biggest threat to us (civilians) is the presence of Indian Troopers here in Kashmir.

    3. Civilians and the leaders of Kashmir are booked under PSA.

    RIA: To this they reply that- The leaders create confusion amongst people and provoke them to go against India……..If this is the case then India should stop calling itself a big democracy firstly, and secondly do you people sitting in air-condition rooms 1000 or 1500 kms away from us think that we are fools here that we would follow anyone and every hanky panky person…. Are you going to judge our fate? Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris and we know very well Who is who, Who is a traitor? an oppressor? and a criminal?

    4. Kashmiris when outside state are harassed in hotels, motels etc and are often wrongly convicted as terrorists etc. They are always looked upon with suspicion and doubt.

    They don't comment on this

    5. You have bombarded here 800000 troopers and that too in the populated areas.

    RIA: To this they reply that- There are militants operating here in Kashmir….. Huh The recent report of their own proclaimed that their are only 500 to 600 or even less than that militants left in Kashmir and the active ones are even lower in number now see the ratio 300 or 200 to 800000. Moreover why these forces reside in populated areas?

    Another Refutation: Every attack of so called militants is targeted at the Paramilitary forces, there is hardly any report in which attack was carried out PURELY at civilians, now if INDIA is really concerned about our security and if they really think that Kashmir is their integral part then why don't they withdraw the forces. Onces forces are withdrawn the attack would stop and peace will be restored.

    Some other Refutations:

    —> People voted here in the last elections ( 58% turnout) and Indian media depicted it as a vote to India, i.e, in other words People of Kashmir are in favor of Indian rule. THIS IS A BIG LIE AND BLASPHEMY EVER PROJECTED. People voted in order to get the basic things like employment, roads, water, electricity etc. Had they really been in favour of Indian rule then why today Kashmir is at boil. Go through the streets of Kashmir and you 'll find slogans like 'QUIT KASHMIR' 'GO INDIA GO BACK' written on walls and roads. Moreover how come more than 1500000 people assembled at Eid Gah raising Pro Freedom slogans prior election. And lastly, we should not forget that elections were carried out in presence of 800000 troops. And there are many reports that people were forced out to vote.

    —-> @ Kashmiri Migrants …… We see you people often on TV screens sitting in a nice chair, in AC rooms saying that Nobody cares about you and that you were forced out of Kashmir and all…. We lived here together, and when oppressed, both of us were oppressed equally, both were threatened equally, and it is the bitter truth that in some cases we were oppresse more than you. You left kashmir, without even bothering to mention it to your neighbours, you got privileges, special quotas, the Indian govt uplifted you…… But we on the other hand were tortured continuously. Now please don't you people think that Kashmir is yours anymore, for those who betray their land, let their lands betray them and For those who betray their people, let their people betray them. We still welcome you in Kashmir, but now you are like any other tourist and not a resident. Jis Kashmir ko Khoon se sincha wo kashmir hamara hai….

    —> The Indian PM recently remarked that the topping of a Kashmiri boy in IAS shows that there are good educational institutes in Kashmir ( trying to portray that state govt had done well in educational sector). I thin Mr. PM needs to study the life of that Kashmiri boy where he studied which coaching institute he joined and all. More over if tomorrow (God wiling) some KAshmiri becomes the head of NASA, will that mean that Kashmir had got superb space laboratories and best equipments and technology. State government here is CORRUPT and your puppet and we don't trust them for we know them from top to bottom. If Kashmir today is on boil, its first credit goes to state government and all main stream parties.

    FREEDOM FOR KASHMIR
    SO YOU INDIA
    GO BACK
    QUIT KASHMIR

  33. @ obaid bhat Says…

    Very nice…. I will let you the story from my end and don't blame me now. Your friend Yasir Sultan has started the religious things and history here.

  34. What force force , i think you forgot how hindus massacred muslims in gujrat , how babri masjid was broken down by hindus , you guys didn’t even spared pregnant womens in gujsat they were also raped ,, babies were burnt alive along with there mothers there , and take this from me Kashmir neither was and neither will be an integral part of india , you indians think that the world communities are fools and you are cunning ones i pity on you … Yeah our king had asked help that time but that doesn’t mean that you are going to occupy our land forcefully now and call it like an idiot indian that its an integral part of Kashmir … Go back to history it seems to me you have been weak in your history subject …God willingly india will soon pack there luggages from Kashmir … You didn’t answered many of my questions like why are we being killed everyday here in cold blooded murders and in fake encounters why are our mothers and sisters are being raped by indian forces why ? Is your country consider itself a big democracy than why is media fourth pillar of democracy is being banned here ? .,..

  35. Indian government, the ruling party at center and opposition all sing in unison that Kashmir is an integral part of India. To break their myth I put forth these arguments to them. IF KASHMIR IS AN ‘INTEGRAL’ PART OF INDIA THEN WHY……

    1. More then 13 civilians were killed by the Paramilitary forces since June,11 of this year alone and more than 100 thousand people were killed since last 10 or 15 years.

    Refutation in Advance (RIA): To this they reply that- these civilians are not civilians at all, they carry stones in their hands and provoke the Paramilitary forces…………. If this is the case then why- in Mumbai, Delhi etc you use water tanks to disperse the protestors (who carry the same stones) while here you don’t find any other option but to open fire at the angry mobs and the bullets strike their upper body, which means your fire to kill and not to stop the angry protestors.

    2. Paramilitary forces here are given special powers (like AFSPA) to lash out their confusion and madness at the civilians.

    RIA: To this they reply that- Conditions in Kashmir are abnormal and ‘security’ forces have to be given some additional powers so that they may defend themselves and the people…….. If this is the case then why- These forces are harassing the civilians, they murder the innocents, blow up the houses of people in the name of ‘encounter’, abuse and even rape our sisters…. Had these forces been as a ‘security’ for us then why are they against us. And from what are they providing us security? The biggest threat to us (civilians) is the presence of Indian Troopers here in Kashmir.

    3. Civilians and the leaders of Kashmir are booked under PSA.

    RIA: To this they reply that- The leaders create confusion amongst people and provoke them to go against India……..If this is the case then India should stop calling itself a big democracy firstly, and secondly do you people sitting in air-condition rooms 1000 or 1500 kms away from us think that we are fools here that we would follow anyone and every hanky panky person…. Are you going to judge our fate? Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris and we know very well Who is who, Who is a traitor? an oppressor? and a criminal?

    4. Kashmiris when outside state are harassed in hotels, motels etc and are often wrongly convicted as terrorists etc. They are always looked upon with suspicion and doubt.

    They don’t comment on this

    5. You have bombarded here 800000 troopers and that too in the populated areas.

    RIA: To this they reply that- There are militants operating here in Kashmir….. Huh The recent report of their own proclaimed that their are only 500 to 600 or even less than that militants left in Kashmir and the active ones are even lower in number now see the ratio 300 or 200 to 800000. Moreover why these forces reside in populated areas?

    Another Refutation: Every attack of so called militants is targeted at the Paramilitary forces, there is hardly any report in which attack was carried out PURELY at civilians, now if INDIA is really concerned about our security and if they really think that Kashmir is their integral part then why don’t they withdraw the forces. Onces forces are withdrawn the attack would stop and peace will be restored.

    Some other Refutations:

    —> People voted here in the last elections ( 58% turnout) and Indian media depicted it as a vote to India, i.e, in other words People of Kashmir are in favor of Indian rule. THIS IS A BIG LIE AND BLASPHEMY EVER PROJECTED. People voted in order to get the basic things like employment, roads, water, electricity etc. Had they really been in favour of Indian rule then why today Kashmir is at boil. Go through the streets of Kashmir and you ‘ll find slogans like ‘QUIT KASHMIR’ ‘GO INDIA GO BACK’ written on walls and roads. Moreover how come more than 1500000 people assembled at Eid Gah raising Pro Freedom slogans prior election. And lastly, we should not forget that elections were carried out in presence of 800000 troops. And there are many reports that people were forced out to vote.

    —-> @ Kashmiri Migrants …… We see you people often on TV screens sitting in a nice chair, in AC rooms saying that Nobody cares about you and that you were forced out of Kashmir and all…. We lived here together, and when oppressed, both of us were oppressed equally, both were threatened equally, and it is the bitter truth that in some cases we were oppresse more than you. You left kashmir, without even bothering to mention it to your neighbours, you got privileges, special quotas, the Indian govt uplifted you…… But we on the other hand were tortured continuously. Now please don’t you people think that Kashmir is yours anymore, for those who betray their land, let their lands betray them and For those who betray their people, let their people betray them. We still welcome you in Kashmir, but now you are like any other tourist and not a resident. Jis Kashmir ko Khoon se sincha wo kashmir hamara hai….

    —> The Indian PM recently remarked that the topping of a Kashmiri boy in IAS shows that there are good educational institutes in Kashmir ( trying to portray that state govt had done well in educational sector). I thin Mr. PM needs to study the life of that Kashmiri boy where he studied which coaching institute he joined and all. More over if tomorrow (God wiling) some KAshmiri becomes the head of NASA, will that mean that Kashmir had got superb space laboratories and best equipments and technology. State government here is CORRUPT and your puppet and we don’t trust them for we know them from top to bottom. If Kashmir today is on boil, its first credit goes to state government and all main stream parties.

    FREEDOM FOR KASHMIR
    SO YOU INDIA
    GO BACK
    QUIT KASHMIR

  36. @RK
    sir u r losing your own battle…i dont even feel the need to debate with you…you thoughts are shouting loud .all that you want is "JAMMU AND KASHMIR","TH LAND",it doesn"y matter to you if people die,it doesn"t matter to you if our women get raped.it doesnt matter to you if our youth who all they want is the right to live,the right to education ,the right to employment,the right to be free ,are killed and then labelled as terrorists…it just doesnt matter to you that right now kids are hungry,sick are suffering,,because you lack hmanity and nor are you a true indian..if you were and you considerd kashmirs indian{acc to ur claims}you would have been out voicing against the atrocities your governmnt is commiting on kashmiris….when britishersruled yoy ,people were out on streets with stones ,lathis and if nothing they protested..i ask you …were you a terrorist..were you not patriotic….common you ought b patriotic and love london coz according to your rule "the 1 who rules is the lord",it doent matter to you if they kill your family,ruin your future…..listen brother today it is us tomorrow it could be you…arrogance doesnt last…so wont the attrocities of india….time is the witness…all you are doing is seeding for your future generations enemies created by you…its been years we havent stopped fighting for our right,,…i dont think you can shut us up…if not us it would be our kids……so no 1 is winning here…

  37. I posted the truth , and truth is alway bitter Mr RK , and i hope you read and understood what Mr Obaid had posted .. Look i don't know , haven't seen you and i got no grudge with you at all , but please think for a minute if God Forbidden your son dies in the firing or God Forbidden your sister or mother is being raped by forces , will you sit at your home … No you won't you will raise voice against it .. The Same is happening with here .. We got no grudge against the people of India , its indian government and its brutal , in human policies which he use on Us … If i had hurted you in any of my comments than , i am sorry for that …

  38. @ obaid bhat Says…

    Very nice…. I will let you the story from my end and don’t blame me now. Your friend Yasir Sultan has started the religious things and history here.

  39. @RK
    sir u r losing your own battle…i dont even feel the need to debate with you…you thoughts are shouting loud .all that you want is “JAMMU AND KASHMIR”,”TH LAND”,it doesn”y matter to you if people die,it doesn”t matter to you if our women get raped.it doesnt matter to you if our youth who all they want is the right to live,the right to education ,the right to employment,the right to be free ,are killed and then labelled as terrorists…it just doesnt matter to you that right now kids are hungry,sick are suffering,,because you lack hmanity and nor are you a true indian..if you were and you considerd kashmirs indian{acc to ur claims}you would have been out voicing against the atrocities your governmnt is commiting on kashmiris….when britishersruled yoy ,people were out on streets with stones ,lathis and if nothing they protested..i ask you …were you a terrorist..were you not patriotic….common you ought b patriotic and love london coz according to your rule “the 1 who rules is the lord”,it doent matter to you if they kill your family,ruin your future…..listen brother today it is us tomorrow it could be you…arrogance doesnt last…so wont the attrocities of india….time is the witness…all you are doing is seeding for your future generations enemies created by you…its been years we havent stopped fighting for our right,,…i dont think you can shut us up…if not us it would be our kids……so no 1 is winning here…

  40. I posted the truth , and truth is alway bitter Mr RK , and i hope you read and understood what Mr Obaid had posted .. Look i don’t know , haven’t seen you and i got no grudge with you at all , but please think for a minute if God Forbidden your son dies in the firing or God Forbidden your sister or mother is being raped by forces , will you sit at your home … No you won’t you will raise voice against it .. The Same is happening with here .. We got no grudge against the people of India , its indian government and its brutal , in human policies which he use on Us … If i had hurted you in any of my comments than , i am sorry for that …

  41. @ Lubna Ashraf
    Thanks for coming in a nice manner. Also, I would be interested in winning if there were Pakistanis on other end but you guys are my own people and it is very difficult to fight against your own people.

    First of all fair points about using tear gas, and other non lethal weapons for crowd control, at of the day they are our fellow human beings, but no ground should be given to separatists, Kashmir is ancestral Indian land.

    I personally know that there are many decent fellows in Kashmir like you, because I have many Kashmir Muslim friends in the days of my engineering college in Maharashtra. I have never, not even in a single sentence, taking the side of the human rights violations done by the security agencies. I know many people in Kashmir killed, but security forces are not completely responsible for this. We are seeing the militancy in the Valley for last many years.

    Also you cannot simply put the burden of human rights violations on the Indian Army. There are some human right violations than by Jammu & Kashmir police as well, but these policemen were also Kashmiri, isn’t it? Also, I was about the human rights of the security personnel? There are thousand of soldiers killed in the valley. Aren’t the human? Don’t they have family? They are protecting our land by staying -40 degree temperature.
    The people of Kashmir have every right to live, get educated, earn well, and believe me the whole of the country will be with them, but the problem is AZAADI. How can you expect people of the country to take your side when you don’t consider yourself the citizen of the country? See, you can protest against the government, the police, the military, but you cannot go against the nation. You can’t ask to divide the nation on the basic of religion or on the basic of any other thing.

    Just give it a try, just people of India feel that you want to be the part of India, and you will see the change. You might be aware of that in 1984 they were problem in the Punjab also, there were riots against the Sikhs after the killing of India Gandhi. Many Sikhs were killed. But the Sikhs or the people of Punjab did not turn anti-nation. Do you know that the Sikh population is less than 2% of the country, but more than 20% of the Indian armed forces and 25% officers are Sikhs, this is what I call patriotism, the love for the country. And as I previously said, don’t compare it with the Britishers. They were foreigners, you are our own people. And the India not only belongs to me, but to you as well. I know many Kashmiris of my college, now working in various software
    companies in Bangalore and Mumbai. Dear brother, we all human 1st, but it doesn’t mean that one should go against the nation; you shouldn’t ask to break the nation.

    I know there are problems in Kashmir, but there is some other way out, except independence.

  42. @ Lubna Ashraf
    Thanks for coming in a nice manner. Also, I would be interested in winning if there were Pakistanis on other end but you guys are my own people and it is very difficult to fight against your own people.

    First of all fair points about using tear gas, and other non lethal weapons for crowd control, at of the day they are our fellow human beings, but no ground should be given to separatists, Kashmir is ancestral Indian land.

    I personally know that there are many decent fellows in Kashmir like you, because I have many Kashmir Muslim friends in the days of my engineering college in Maharashtra. I have never, not even in a single sentence, taking the side of the human rights violations done by the security agencies. I know many people in Kashmir killed, but security forces are not completely responsible for this. We are seeing the militancy in the Valley for last many years.

    Also you cannot simply put the burden of human rights violations on the Indian Army. There are some human right violations than by Jammu & Kashmir police as well, but these policemen were also Kashmiri, isn’t it? Also, I was about the human rights of the security personnel? There are thousand of soldiers killed in the valley. Aren’t the human? Don’t they have family? They are protecting our land by staying -40 degree temperature.
    The people of Kashmir have every right to live, get educated, earn well, and believe me the whole of the country will be with them, but the problem is AZAADI. How can you expect people of the country to take your side when you don’t consider yourself the citizen of the country? See, you can protest against the government, the police, the military, but you cannot go against the nation. You can’t ask to divide the nation on the basic of religion or on the basic of any other thing.

    Just give it a try, just people of India feel that you want to be the part of India, and you will see the change. You might be aware of that in 1984 they were problem in the Punjab also, there were riots against the Sikhs after the killing of India Gandhi. Many Sikhs were killed. But the Sikhs or the people of Punjab did not turn anti-nation. Do you know that the Sikh population is less than 2% of the country, but more than 20% of the Indian armed forces and 25% officers are Sikhs, this is what I call patriotism, the love for the country. And as I previously said, don’t compare it with the Britishers. They were foreigners, you are our own people. And the India not only belongs to me, but to you as well. I know many Kashmiris of my college, now working in various software
    companies in Bangalore and Mumbai. Dear brother, we all human 1st, but it doesn’t mean that one should go against the nation; you shouldn’t ask to break the nation.

    I know there are problems in Kashmir, but there is some other way out, except independence.

  43. @RK
    sir i understand your point..but have ever been to kashmir??you can"t comment on some one"s cicumstances through a mere observation of few people you have hanged out with..sir i beg to defer here ..kashmir had always been under autonomous rule..it was not a part of india or pakistan…we have alwys been neutral to both the countries…..and if we were indian we would stand by you guys..patriotism is not forced ,it is something that a human automatically feels…may be 30% of kashmiri population was anti india ., and i would say we are wrong n blah blah..but the reality is compltely different..you live in a protected environment ..you don't fear for the safety of your family….because you don't have to ..you don't live in kashmir.your parents..you..or your kids haven't gone through what we people go through every day…we would have too loved to be with our families and live peacefully..but the irrational behaviour of some of your countrymates has forced us to live away from our mothers…you will not understand this pain…we have been brought up under the shadow of guns…sir..we have nothing against indians…they are people like us..all we want is our right…india has illegally occupied kashmir…the fact is that..and no 1 can change it…look around..you people are being shadowed by your own govnt…banning of media..banning of right to information ….i can't blame you because you are not even being shown the real picture…indian media is so biased..what kind of journalism are people practising…blaming foreign hand..or calling us terrorists..is not the solution sir…the people out on streets are not carrying guns ..all they want is that their voice be heard..but look at the reality …it is so dismal.if their was a way out sir…kashmir wouldn't have been on fire at this time…and sir patriotism does not lie in the power of your army..or their guns…patriotism is to stand for what is right and what is wrong…..if we the new generation do not act according to facts in a rational way…we are gifting the next generation another unwanted war..and that even with the fellow breed of human beings.sir 90% of what is reported in inidan media is false, to know the reality you have to come and live here..how many innocent people have been labelled millitans…how many people are missing …houses burnt in fake encounters….and talk of kashmiris living in india i havnt seen any single person who doesn't live in fear..coz if anything wrong happens we r d first people you guys cum and harrass…this is the reality…and i am not just saying it in words..i have lived in india for 13 years ..tried to love india as much i could…i don;t hate indians..but we are not indians and we can never be..but that doesn't mean that we are enemies..all we are talking right now is the brutality unethical people are showing on kashmir…sir we need like minded support atleast to stop people from being killed in silence…and that is what we expect from men of your stature.i apologise if i hurt your sentiments in any way

  44. @RK
    sir i understand your point..but have ever been to kashmir??you can”t comment on some one”s cicumstances through a mere observation of few people you have hanged out with..sir i beg to defer here ..kashmir had always been under autonomous rule..it was not a part of india or pakistan…we have alwys been neutral to both the countries…..and if we were indian we would stand by you guys..patriotism is not forced ,it is something that a human automatically feels…may be 30% of kashmiri population was anti india ., and i would say we are wrong n blah blah..but the reality is compltely different..you live in a protected environment ..you don’t fear for the safety of your family….because you don’t have to ..you don’t live in kashmir.your parents..you..or your kids haven’t gone through what we people go through every day…we would have too loved to be with our families and live peacefully..but the irrational behaviour of some of your countrymates has forced us to live away from our mothers…you will not understand this pain…we have been brought up under the shadow of guns…sir..we have nothing against indians…they are people like us..all we want is our right…india has illegally occupied kashmir…the fact is that..and no 1 can change it…look around..you people are being shadowed by your own govnt…banning of media..banning of right to information ….i can’t blame you because you are not even being shown the real picture…indian media is so biased..what kind of journalism are people practising…blaming foreign hand..or calling us terrorists..is not the solution sir…the people out on streets are not carrying guns ..all they want is that their voice be heard..but look at the reality …it is so dismal.if their was a way out sir…kashmir wouldn’t have been on fire at this time…and sir patriotism does not lie in the power of your army..or their guns…patriotism is to stand for what is right and what is wrong…..if we the new generation do not act according to facts in a rational way…we are gifting the next generation another unwanted war..and that even with the fellow breed of human beings.sir 90% of what is reported in inidan media is false, to know the reality you have to come and live here..how many innocent people have been labelled millitans…how many people are missing …houses burnt in fake encounters….and talk of kashmiris living in india i havnt seen any single person who doesn’t live in fear..coz if anything wrong happens we r d first people you guys cum and harrass…this is the reality…and i am not just saying it in words..i have lived in india for 13 years ..tried to love india as much i could…i don;t hate indians..but we are not indians and we can never be..but that doesn’t mean that we are enemies..all we are talking right now is the brutality unethical people are showing on kashmir…sir we need like minded support atleast to stop people from being killed in silence…and that is what we expect from men of your stature.i apologise if i hurt your sentiments in any way

  45. And that's how Kashmiris have always essentially been, as a people …

    Polite, generous, sweet & gentle, peaceloving, …

    Diligent in lifelong hard work for their families, travelling to distant lands to sell their famed handmade things, beautiful & delicate goods, carrying their homes & families in tbeir hearts …

    Kashmiris were like the once – peaceful Palestinians, a gentle people before Zionism dispossessed them…

    The Hindu raja the Kashmiris lived under at one time, he was as brutal a feudal oppressor as were the Hindu rajas inside india oppressors of the indian people under them …

    When india came in & occupied her chunk of Kashmir, the Kashmiri people were never consulted about the matter, they were never asked if they wanted to be part of India or not …

    To claim today that Kashmir is the "ancestral land of the Indians" is as ludicrous as saying that God promised Palestine to the Jews from days of yore !!

    It is equally ludicrous to say to the Kashmiris, "You MUST feel patriotism for india!"

    Nor can the indian ocupation Army force them to feel this way.

    The very fact that the above Indian gentleman demands this of the Kashmiris, that they must stop wanting freedom, proves the indisputable truth that the Kashmiri people, in their vast & overwhelming majority, are IN FACT crying for freedom, complete & sovereign, & that THIS constitutes their crime, wanting what every people want & deserve to have…the right to determine their own destinies themselves.

    Nor are the Indian people themselves making this foolish demand of the Kashmiris .

    In recent years, 150,000 indian farmers committed suicide owing to the desperation of utmost poverty.

    The people of india, the real india, rural india, have survival on their minds & hunger in their bellies, they have no quarrel with the distant Kashmiri people.

    The Kashmiri sisters & brothers here have spoken truly, they want neither india nor pakistan but their own land to themselves.

    The Kashmiri students in struggle today represent something entirely new again — they are perhaps the first really politically autonomous people's movement in Kashmir, depending on none of the parties or political forces of the land — they are a truly grassroots phenomenon.

    A nation which oppresses another nation can itself never be free.

    Only when Kashmir & the Kashmiris attain their full freedom can india & the Indians begin to be free of oppression themselves.

  46. @ Lubna Ashraf | @ a.savage

    It's very nice that we understanding each other’ concern. Let me put my views point wise:

    1. Indian media –
    You are saying we are being misguided by the biased Indian media. Now, let me tell you that I'm not entirely dependent upon the Indian media. Indian media never said that the most of the people of Kashmir want to be independent, but I know it is a fact. In fact, a few days back I have read a article in Times of India that 70% of the people of Kashmir want to stay with India, which of course bullshit.
    2. Kashmir had always been under autonomous rule –
    How long back, you want me to go back in the history to prove my point? India and Pakistan formally, created after 1947 only. But Kashmir was always with India otherwise:

    Raja Hari Singh accede it to India.
    It was part of India even in the Mugal empire.
    It was the part of India under Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
    It was the part of India before even Islam flourished in the valley.
    Also, in 1947, Maharashtra, UP, MP, Karnataka, Himachal Pradesh.. was not the part of India, because the India created after 1947 only. So, according to you we should also demand for independence. Why we are not doing this? Are we cowards? Or we cannot pelt stones?
    3. A genuine questions:
    I would really want to ask you genuinely – what is the percentage among the people of Kashmir who wants to be a part of Pakistan? Please don't say NONE – be honest!
    4. People's will:
    You’re talking about the people's will, you know when some Muslim scholars, in 1947, came out with 2 nation theory that Hindu and Muslim are very different and cannot live together. Even in 1947, majority of the Muslims are not supporters of the creation of Pakistan. But Pakistan was created!!!! And you know, the right wing people did not forgave the Indian Muslim because of that. Indian Muslims are still held responsible for the creation of Pakistan. Please don't do that mistake again……..
    If somehow after 50 years, the people of my own city want to be a different nation, then it doesn’t mean that it will be accepted. No country in the world can negotiate with it. Let it be democratic or dictatorship.
    5. Diversity:
    You are saying that we are nothing in common with the Indians. You know that India is a place of unity in diversely. You can find nothing common in the people of Tamilnadu and the people of Mizoram. But we are one!
    6. Human rights–
    The truth is that human rights violation is an entirely and different issue, the demand of independence was even before the Army stepped in the Valley, and even though the area will be the de-militarize, will you leave the demand of independence – the answer is NO.

    7. The most important question –
    From Kashmir are saying that at the time of independence, Jammu and Kashmir was under the rule of maharaja Hari Singh, and they accede to India without consulting the people's will.
    The question is: Jammu and Kashmir was also the part of Hari Singh's kingdom then why these Hindu majority and Buddhist majority areas are not demanding for any kind of independence from India? Please check the survey http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/10207909.st

    I would really appreciate if you can answer this.

    Also what about the will of the Kashmiri pundits? They are forced to leave their houses; they are still living as a refugee in their own country. Are they not the native people of Kashmir? More than 300,000 Kashmiri pundits are living outside the Valley. Why Kashmiri pundits are not demanding for the independence from India? What about the will of the Kashmiri pundits?
    The fact of the matter is – many Kashmir people in the valley aided the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pundits in early 1990s, the mosques were announcing – Kashmiri pundits, convert or leave the valley.

    Can you deny that??????????

    Where were all these moderate separatist APHC, when the ethnic cleaning of Kashmiri pundits were taking place??

    8. Pakistan – Do you really think that you can deny the involvement of the Pakistan in Kashmir?? Can you really think that you can deny the Pakistani backed terrorist organizations LeT?

    Can you?

    9. India has illegally occupied Kashmir – This is the biggest misconception…. in fact Indian people are most tolerant toward the other religions. Tell me how many Muslim countries allowed and non-Muslim people to become the president of a Muslim state??
    10. Violence – As I have already mentioned, whenever and wherever, there will be a moment against the nation. Common people of that part will have to suffer (I’m not saying that it is right). I can give you thousands of examples:

    Russia
    BanglaDesh
    Punjab
    North East
    …………..

  47. And that’s how Kashmiris have always essentially been, as a people …

    Polite, generous, sweet & gentle, peaceloving, …

    Diligent in lifelong hard work for their families, travelling to distant lands to sell their famed handmade things, beautiful & delicate goods, carrying their homes & families in tbeir hearts …

    Kashmiris were like the once – peaceful Palestinians, a gentle people before Zionism dispossessed them…

    The Hindu raja the Kashmiris lived under at one time, he was as brutal a feudal oppressor as were the Hindu rajas inside india oppressors of the indian people under them …

    When india came in & occupied her chunk of Kashmir, the Kashmiri people were never consulted about the matter, they were never asked if they wanted to be part of India or not …

    To claim today that Kashmir is the “ancestral land of the Indians” is as ludicrous as saying that God promised Palestine to the Jews from days of yore !!

    It is equally ludicrous to say to the Kashmiris, “You MUST feel patriotism for india!”

    Nor can the indian ocupation Army force them to feel this way.

    The very fact that the above Indian gentleman demands this of the Kashmiris, that they must stop wanting freedom, proves the indisputable truth that the Kashmiri people, in their vast & overwhelming majority, are IN FACT crying for freedom, complete & sovereign, & that THIS constitutes their crime, wanting what every people want & deserve to have…the right to determine their own destinies themselves.

    Nor are the Indian people themselves making this foolish demand of the Kashmiris .

    In recent years, 150,000 indian farmers committed suicide owing to the desperation of utmost poverty.

    The people of india, the real india, rural india, have survival on their minds & hunger in their bellies, they have no quarrel with the distant Kashmiri people.

    The Kashmiri sisters & brothers here have spoken truly, they want neither india nor pakistan but their own land to themselves.

    The Kashmiri students in struggle today represent something entirely new again — they are perhaps the first really politically autonomous people’s movement in Kashmir, depending on none of the parties or political forces of the land — they are a truly grassroots phenomenon.

    A nation which oppresses another nation can itself never be free.

    Only when Kashmir & the Kashmiris attain their full freedom can india & the Indians begin to be free of oppression themselves.

  48. @savage , i true appreciate your points .. Thats what we all Kashmiris want Freedom , no one is Kashmir considers him or herself as an Indian , india has forcefully kept us under there feet for morethan 60 years , but its time for india to realize enough is enough now , stop this blood shed leave our land be , let us live peacefully on our land(Kashmir) and you live on yours i;e india … Quit Kashmir As soon As you can , no more blood shed ..

  49. @ Lubna Ashraf | @ a.savage

    It's very nice that we understanding each other’ concern. Let me put my views point wise:

    1. Indian media –
    You are saying we are being misguided by the biased Indian media. Now, let me tell you that I'm not entirely dependent upon the Indian media. Indian media never said that the most of the people of Kashmir want to be independent, but I know it is a fact. In fact, a few days back I have read a article in Times of India that 70% of the people of Kashmir want to stay with India, which of course bullshit.
    2. Kashmir had always been under autonomous rule –
    How long back, you want me to go back in the history to prove my point? India and Pakistan formally, created after 1947 only. But Kashmir was always with India otherwise:

    Raja Hari Singh accede it to India.
    It was part of India even in the Mugal empire.
    It was the part of India under Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
    It was the part of India before even Islam flourished in the valley.
    Also, in 1947, Maharashtra, UP, MP, Karnataka, Himachal Pradesh.. was not the part of India, because the India created after 1947 only. So, according to you we should also demand for independence. Why we are not doing this? Are we cowards? Or we cannot pelt stones?
    3. A genuine questions:
    I would really want to ask you genuinely – what is the percentage among the people of Kashmir who wants to be a part of Pakistan? Please don't say NONE – be honest!
    4. People's will:
    You’re talking about the people's will, you know when some Muslim scholars, in 1947, came out with 2 nation theory that Hindu and Muslim are very different and cannot live together. Even in 1947, majority of the Muslims are not supporters of the creation of Pakistan. But Pakistan was created!!!! And you know, the right wing people did not forgave the Indian Muslim because of that. Indian Muslims are still held responsible for the creation of Pakistan. Please don't do that mistake again……..
    If somehow after 50 years, the people of my own city want to be a different nation, then it doesn’t mean that it will be accepted. No country in the world can negotiate with it. Let it be democratic or dictatorship.
    5. Diversity:
    You are saying that we are nothing in common with the Indians. You know that India is a place of unity in diversely. You can find nothing common in the people of Tamilnadu and the people of Mizoram. But we are one!
    6. Human rights–
    The truth is that human rights violation is an entirely and different issue, the demand of independence was even before the Army stepped in the Valley, and even though the area will be the de-militarize, will you leave the demand of independence – the answer is NO.

    7. The most important question –
    From Kashmir are saying that at the time of independence, Jammu and Kashmir was under the rule of maharaja Hari Singh, and they accede to India without consulting the people's will.
    The question is: Jammu and Kashmir was also the part of Hari Singh's kingdom then why these Hindu majority and Buddhist majority areas are not demanding for any kind of independence from India? Please check the survey http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/10207909.st

    I would really appreciate if you can answer this.

    Also what about the will of the Kashmiri pundits? They are forced to leave their houses; they are still living as a refugee in their own country. Are they not the native people of Kashmir? More than 300,000 Kashmiri pundits are living outside the Valley. Why Kashmiri pundits are not demanding for the independence from India? What about the will of the Kashmiri pundits?
    The fact of the matter is – many Kashmir people in the valley aided the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pundits in early 1990s, the mosques were announcing – Kashmiri pundits, convert or leave the valley.

    Can you deny that??????????

    Where were all these moderate separatist APHC, when the ethnic cleaning of Kashmiri pundits were taking place??

    8. Pakistan – Do you really think that you can deny the involvement of the Pakistan in Kashmir?? Can you really think that you can deny the Pakistani backed terrorist organizations LeT?

    Can you?

    9. India has illegally occupied Kashmir – This is the biggest misconception…. in fact Indian people are most tolerant toward the other religions. Tell me how many Muslim countries allowed and non-Muslim people to become the president of a Muslim state??
    10. Violence – As I have already mentioned, whenever and wherever, there will be a moment against the nation. Common people of that part will have to suffer (I’m not saying that it is right). I can give you thousands of examples:

    Russia
    BanglaDesh
    Punjab
    North East
    …………..

  50. @ Lubna Ashraf | @ a.savage

    It's very nice that we understanding each other’ concern. Let me put my views point wise:

    1. Indian media –
    You are saying we are being misguided by the biased Indian media. Now, let me tell you that I'm not entirely dependent upon the Indian media. Indian media never said that the most of the people of Kashmir want to be independent, but I know it is a fact. In fact, a few days back I have read a article in Times of India that 70% of the people of Kashmir want to stay with India, which of course bullshit.
    2. Kashmir had always been under autonomous rule –
    How long back, you want me to go back in the history to prove my point? India and Pakistan formally, created after 1947 only. But Kashmir was always with India otherwise:

    Raja Hari Singh accede it to India.
    It was part of India even in the Mugal empire.
    It was the part of India under Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
    It was the part of India before even Islam flourished in the valley.
    Also, in 1947, Maharashtra, UP, MP, Karnataka, Himachal Pradesh.. was not the part of India, because the India created after 1947 only. So, according to you we should also demand for independence. Why we are not doing this? Are we cowards? Or we cannot pelt stones?
    3. A genuine questions:
    I would really want to ask you genuinely – what is the percentage among the people of Kashmir who wants to be a part of Pakistan? Please don't say NONE – be honest!
    4. People's will:
    You’re talking about the people's will, you know when some Muslim scholars, in 1947, came out with 2 nation theory that Hindu and Muslim are very different and cannot live together. Even in 1947, majority of the Muslims are not supporters of the creation of Pakistan. But Pakistan was created!!!! And you know, the right wing people did not forgave the Indian Muslim because of that. Indian Muslims are still held responsible for the creation of Pakistan. Please don't do that mistake again……..
    If somehow after 50 years, the people of my own city want to be a different nation, then it doesn’t mean that it will be accepted. No country in the world can negotiate with it. Let it be democratic or dictatorship.
    5. Diversity:
    You are saying that we are nothing in common with the Indians. You know that India is a place of unity in diversely. You can find nothing common in the people of Tamilnadu and the people of Mizoram. But we are one!
    6. Human rights–
    The truth is that human rights violation is an entirely and different issue, the demand of independence was even before the Army stepped in the Valley, and even though the area will be the de-militarize, will you leave the demand of independence – the answer is NO.

    7. The most important question –
    From Kashmir are saying that at the time of independence, Jammu and Kashmir was under the rule of maharaja Hari Singh, and they accede to India without consulting the people's will.
    The question is: Jammu and Kashmir was also the part of Hari Singh's kingdom then why these Hindu majority and Buddhist majority areas are not demanding for any kind of independence from India? Please check the survey http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/10207909.st

    I would really appreciate if you can answer this.

    Also what about the will of the Kashmiri pundits? They are forced to leave their houses; they are still living as a refugee in their own country. Are they not the native people of Kashmir? More than 300,000 Kashmiri pundits are living outside the Valley. Why Kashmiri pundits are not demanding for the independence from India? What about the will of the Kashmiri pundits?
    The fact of the matter is – many Kashmir people in the valley aided the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pundits in early 1990s, the mosques were announcing – Kashmiri pundits, convert or leave the valley.

    Can you deny that??????????

    Where were all these moderate separatist APHC, when the ethnic cleaning of Kashmiri pundits were taking place??

    8. Pakistan – Do you really think that you can deny the involvement of the Pakistan in Kashmir?? Can you really think that you can deny the Pakistani backed terrorist organizations LeT?

    Can you?

    9. India has illegally occupied Kashmir – This is the biggest misconception…. in fact Indian people are most tolerant toward the other religions. Tell me how many Muslim countries allowed and non-Muslim people to become the president of a Muslim state??
    10. Violence – As I have already mentioned, whenever and wherever, there will be a moment against the nation. Common people of that part will have to suffer (I’m not saying that it is right). I can give you thousands of examples:

    Russia
    BanglaDesh
    Punjab
    North East
    …………..

  51. @Obaid Bhat:

    1. I have already answered this, whenever they will be a moment against the nation, to break the nation, like it was back in Punjab in 1984, the common man will have to suffer ( which is not right). No country in the world would compromise with it, let it be democratic, dictatorship or anything else. The people in the other parts of India are protesting for the price hike not for the independence. You are most welcome to protest for the same cause, and if you do I would appreciate it.

    2. APSPA – this act is not only applicable in the Valley, this is applicable in the NE states as well. also there is ongoing debate about the amendment in APSPA. And you cannot totally put the burden of human rights violation to the Indian Army, your own Jammu Kashmir police is also responsible for this ( which constitutes of Kashmiris). There are thousand of soldiers killed in the valley. Aren’t the human? Don’t they have family? They are protecting our land by staying -40 degree temperature.

    3. You RIA is absolutely right, democracy doesn’t mean that we will allow people to go against the nation. As I already said you can go against the government but not against the nation. Again, answer me, why there is no such problem in Ladakh and Jammu? These parts are also the part of Hari Singh’s Kingdom.

    4. This is not entirely true; there are many Kashmiri students in my engineering college, in Maharashtra. And most of them are working in the reputed software companies in the Bangalore and Mumbai.

    5. It is a big misconception that so many troops are deployed for the civilians. They are not, Jammu Kashmir is hostile territory surrounded by China and Pakistan. There are forces deployed in Arunachal Pradesh as well.

    6. For other –RIA – please check my other post @ Lubna.

    Vande Matram
    Hindustan Zindabad
    Jai Hind.

  52. @savage , i true appreciate your points .. Thats what we all Kashmiris want Freedom , no one is Kashmir considers him or herself as an Indian , india has forcefully kept us under there feet for morethan 60 years , but its time for india to realize enough is enough now , stop this blood shed leave our land be , let us live peacefully on our land(Kashmir) and you live on yours i;e india … Quit Kashmir As soon As you can , no more blood shed ..

  53. Kasmir is the only place in the world where kashmiris are being killed in fake encounters , tortured, face custodial deaths, made to disappear !!! WHY ???. So the people who do it will be rewarded with medals , will be promoted. what a pitty on those who claim of tallest democracy in the world. scores of kashmiri women have been raped by the forces who are known as SECURITY FORCES & r supposed to proide us with SECURITY !!!

  54. @ Lubna Ashraf | @ a.savage

    It’s very nice that we understanding each other’ concern. Let me put my views point wise:

    1. Indian media –
    You are saying we are being misguided by the biased Indian media. Now, let me tell you that I’m not entirely dependent upon the Indian media. Indian media never said that the most of the people of Kashmir want to be independent, but I know it is a fact. In fact, a few days back I have read a article in Times of India that 70% of the people of Kashmir want to stay with India, which of course bullshit.
    2. Kashmir had always been under autonomous rule –
    How long back, you want me to go back in the history to prove my point? India and Pakistan formally, created after 1947 only. But Kashmir was always with India otherwise:

    Raja Hari Singh accede it to India.
    It was part of India even in the Mugal empire.
    It was the part of India under Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
    It was the part of India before even Islam flourished in the valley.
    Also, in 1947, Maharashtra, UP, MP, Karnataka, Himachal Pradesh.. was not the part of India, because the India created after 1947 only. So, according to you we should also demand for independence. Why we are not doing this? Are we cowards? Or we cannot pelt stones?
    3. A genuine questions:
    I would really want to ask you genuinely – what is the percentage among the people of Kashmir who wants to be a part of Pakistan? Please don’t say NONE – be honest!
    4. People’s will:
    You’re talking about the people’s will, you know when some Muslim scholars, in 1947, came out with 2 nation theory that Hindu and Muslim are very different and cannot live together. Even in 1947, majority of the Muslims are not supporters of the creation of Pakistan. But Pakistan was created!!!! And you know, the right wing people did not forgave the Indian Muslim because of that. Indian Muslims are still held responsible for the creation of Pakistan. Please don’t do that mistake again……..
    If somehow after 50 years, the people of my own city want to be a different nation, then it doesn’t mean that it will be accepted. No country in the world can negotiate with it. Let it be democratic or dictatorship.
    5. Diversity:
    You are saying that we are nothing in common with the Indians. You know that India is a place of unity in diversely. You can find nothing common in the people of Tamilnadu and the people of Mizoram. But we are one!
    6. Human rights–
    The truth is that human rights violation is an entirely and different issue, the demand of independence was even before the Army stepped in the Valley, and even though the area will be the de-militarize, will you leave the demand of independence – the answer is NO.

    7. The most important question –
    From Kashmir are saying that at the time of independence, Jammu and Kashmir was under the rule of maharaja Hari Singh, and they accede to India without consulting the people’s will.
    The question is: Jammu and Kashmir was also the part of Hari Singh’s kingdom then why these Hindu majority and Buddhist majority areas are not demanding for any kind of independence from India? Please check the survey
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/10207909.stm

    I would really appreciate if you can answer this.

    Also what about the will of the Kashmiri pundits? They are forced to leave their houses; they are still living as a refugee in their own country. Are they not the native people of Kashmir? More than 300,000 Kashmiri pundits are living outside the Valley. Why Kashmiri pundits are not demanding for the independence from India? What about the will of the Kashmiri pundits?
    The fact of the matter is – many Kashmir people in the valley aided the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pundits in early 1990s, the mosques were announcing – Kashmiri pundits, convert or leave the valley.

    Can you deny that??????????

    Where were all these moderate separatist APHC, when the ethnic cleaning of Kashmiri pundits were taking place??

    8. Pakistan – Do you really think that you can deny the involvement of the Pakistan in Kashmir?? Can you really think that you can deny the Pakistani backed terrorist organizations LeT?

    Can you?

    9. India has illegally occupied Kashmir – This is the biggest misconception…. in fact Indian people are most tolerant toward the other religions. Tell me how many Muslim countries allowed and non-Muslim people to become the president of a Muslim state??
    10. Violence – As I have already mentioned, whenever and wherever, there will be a moment against the nation. Common people of that part will have to suffer (I’m not saying that it is right). I can give you thousands of examples:

    Russia
    BanglaDesh
    Punjab
    North East
    …………..

  55. @Obaid Bhat:

    1. I have already answered this, whenever they will be a moment against the nation, to break the nation, like it was back in Punjab in 1984, the common man will have to suffer ( which is not right). No country in the world would compromise with it, let it be democratic, dictatorship or anything else. The people in the other parts of India are protesting for the price hike not for the independence. You are most welcome to protest for the same cause, and if you do I would appreciate it.

    2. APSPA – this act is not only applicable in the Valley, this is applicable in the NE states as well. also there is ongoing debate about the amendment in APSPA. And you cannot totally put the burden of human rights violation to the Indian Army, your own Jammu Kashmir police is also responsible for this ( which constitutes of Kashmiris). There are thousand of soldiers killed in the valley. Aren’t the human? Don’t they have family? They are protecting our land by staying -40 degree temperature.

    3. You RIA is absolutely right, democracy doesn’t mean that we will allow people to go against the nation. As I already said you can go against the government but not against the nation. Again, answer me, why there is no such problem in Ladakh and Jammu? These parts are also the part of Hari Singh’s Kingdom.

    4. This is not entirely true; there are many Kashmiri students in my engineering college, in Maharashtra. And most of them are working in the reputed software companies in the Bangalore and Mumbai.

    5. It is a big misconception that so many troops are deployed for the civilians. They are not, Jammu Kashmir is hostile territory surrounded by China and Pakistan. There are forces deployed in Arunachal Pradesh as well.

    6. For other –RIA – please check my other post @ Lubna.

    Vande Matram
    Hindustan Zindabad
    Jai Hind.

  56. Kasmir is the only place in the world where kashmiris are being killed in fake encounters , tortured, face custodial deaths, made to disappear !!! WHY ???. So the people who do it will be rewarded with medals , will be promoted. what a pitty on those who claim of tallest democracy in the world. scores of kashmiri women have been raped by the forces who are known as SECURITY FORCES & r supposed to proide us with SECURITY !!!

  57. Dear Mr Rk,

    Thank you for your response.

    Please allow me to use an analogy, sir, for comparative analogies do help us see a situation more clearly.

    You argue, sir, exactly like China argues about Tibet.

    Like you, China says Tibet was ALWAYS part of China — BECAUSE Tibet was under China's Mongol & Manchu dynasties — exactly like you cite the Mughals' rule.

    The Kashmiri people, on the contrary, argue EXACTLY like the Tibetan people.

    They say they have always been a DISTINCT & SEPARATE people & nation, by geography, history & IDENTITY.

    Like China, you base your POSSESSORS' "sovereignty" upon the RULE OF KINGS or DYNASTIES.

    Like the Tibetans, the Kashmiris base their DISPOSSESSED sovereignty within their own earth & skies, within their own veins & their own singular self – knowledge & self – identification BORN ACROSS COUNTLESS GENERATIONS from the land which contains the bones of their ancestors.

    Not upon the distant, alien rule of FOREIGN kings.

    As a result of this identity & SELF – KNOWING, both peoples, Kashmiri & Tibetan, will NEVER — CAN never — accept occupation, colonisation & militarisation of their lands by foreign state entities.

    You mention Maharashtra & other indian states, sir, & ask, "Why don't WE ask for independence now ?"

    Your peoples won't ask this,sir, for that's not the historical question being asked by your people now. They're asking for different things, they're asking for agrarian reform, for a removal of the desperate poverty & social inequalities INSIDE their land — not for the removal of a foreign body implanted from OUTSIDE.

    Please attend to your own people's burning questions, sir, & allow the Kashmiri people to attend to their own.

  58. Dear Iqra,

    Thank you for your words, my friend & relative — for we are all related.

    All oppressed nations relate with & identify with Kashmir.

    Kashmir isn't india.

    Nor is Kashmir an exception, she is the rule.

    Her human & natural rights situation will set the standard for those rights inside india as well.

    Please persevere.

  59. Dear Mr Rk,

    Thank you for your response.

    Please allow me to use an analogy, sir, for comparative analogies do help us see a situation more clearly.

    You argue, sir, exactly like China argues about Tibet.

    Like you, China says Tibet was ALWAYS part of China — BECAUSE Tibet was under China’s Mongol & Manchu dynasties — exactly like you cite the Mughals’ rule.

    The Kashmiri people, on the contrary, argue EXACTLY like the Tibetan people.

    They say they have always been a DISTINCT & SEPARATE people & nation, by geography, history & IDENTITY.

    Like China, you base your POSSESSORS’ “sovereignty” upon the RULE OF KINGS or DYNASTIES.

    Like the Tibetans, the Kashmiris base their DISPOSSESSED sovereignty within their own earth & skies, within their own veins & their own singular self – knowledge & self – identification BORN ACROSS COUNTLESS GENERATIONS from the land which contains the bones of their ancestors.

    Not upon the distant, alien rule of FOREIGN kings.

    As a result of this identity & SELF – KNOWING, both peoples, Kashmiri & Tibetan, will NEVER — CAN never — accept occupation, colonisation & militarisation of their lands by foreign state entities.

    You mention Maharashtra & other indian states, sir, & ask, “Why don’t WE ask for independence now ?”

    Your peoples won’t ask this,sir, for that’s not the historical question being asked by your people now. They’re asking for different things, they’re asking for agrarian reform, for a removal of the desperate poverty & social inequalities INSIDE their land — not for the removal of a foreign body implanted from OUTSIDE.

    Please attend to your own people’s burning questions, sir, & allow the Kashmiri people to attend to their own.

  60. Dear Iqra,

    Thank you for your words, my friend & relative — for we are all related.

    All oppressed nations relate with & identify with Kashmir.

    Kashmir isn’t india.

    Nor is Kashmir an exception, she is the rule.

    Her human & natural rights situation will set the standard for those rights inside india as well.

    Please persevere.

  61. @a.savage

    Hi,

    Before I reply regarding the comparison between China and India and Kashmir and Tibet. I would deeply appreciate if you can answer some of my questions which I have asked in my very previous post.

    I'm asking because I have found some really decent Kashmiri fellows here, unlike other forms, on which there is just exchange of abuses going on.


    Thanks

  62. @a.savage

    Hi,

    Before I reply regarding the comparison between China and India and Kashmir and Tibet. I would deeply appreciate if you can answer some of my questions which I have asked in my very previous post.

    I’m asking because I have found some really decent Kashmiri fellows here, unlike other forms, on which there is just exchange of abuses going on.


    Thanks

  63. My dear brother Rk,

    You have asked many questions.

    One is, why don't the poeple of Jammu demand independence ?

    Cultures arise from different conditions & processes, sir, they don't respond to history in the same way or at the same time, nor do they have the same ways of resistance to colonisation. Some fight openly, others secretively.In these different ways they try to remain who they are.

    For an analogy, sir, if the British asked this question you have asked — "Why are YOU fighting ? THEY are not fighting !" — if the British asked this during the Sepoy Mutiny & during all the wars they fought in india, pointing to the peoples who were quiet at each particular time & asking the resisting peoples why they ALONE were resisting, how would you answer ?

    You also ask , sir, about the Hindu pilgrims. When the Kashmiri people regain power over themselves, the pilgrims will be able to return in peace & regain their own rights of safe passage, once normalisation follows in the wake of reeastablished justice for the people of Kashmir.

    So too for the Kashmiri Pundits. You will see their return once peace comes, but not any return of old feudal power.

    You speak for the human rights of the indian army. In truth, sir, all armies of occupation — & "occupation" is defined by the people of a land, NOT by the occupying power itself — are THEMSELVES responsible for the rights of the peoples whose land they have occupied, even though occupation is itself the deepest violation of those rights, under international law.

    But the people of an occupied land, sir, are not responsible for the rights of the army occupying their land. Being occupied, they can only try to protect their own stolen rights, they don't have the power to protect the rights of their powerful occupiers.

    Indeed, under international law, the occupied people have the right to resist the army of occupation, as your own peoples often did throughout the British occupation.

    So, sir, the Kashmiri people are in no way resposible for the indian Army's rights, nor can or should they be held to it.

    You speak of pakistan's involvement in Kashmir. Are you surprised ? Colonised peoples take help where they find it. Indians fighting British occupation took aid from Britain's enemies. Balochis fighting Pakistan get help from india.

    Are you surprised at all this,sir, when continuing injustice & occupation are fueling this problem ?

    .

  64. My dear brother Rk,

    You have asked many questions.

    One is, why don’t the poeple of Jammu demand independence ?

    Cultures arise from different conditions & processes, sir, they don’t respond to history in the same way or at the same time, nor do they have the same ways of resistance to colonisation. Some fight openly, others secretively.In these different ways they try to remain who they are.

    For an analogy, sir, if the British asked this question you have asked — “Why are YOU fighting ? THEY are not fighting !” — if the British asked this during the Sepoy Mutiny & during all the wars they fought in india, pointing to the peoples who were quiet at each particular time & asking the resisting peoples why they ALONE were resisting, how would you answer ?

    You also ask , sir, about the Hindu pilgrims. When the Kashmiri people regain power over themselves, the pilgrims will be able to return in peace & regain their own rights of safe passage, once normalisation follows in the wake of reeastablished justice for the people of Kashmir.

    So too for the Kashmiri Pundits. You will see their return once peace comes, but not any return of old feudal power.

    You speak for the human rights of the indian army. In truth, sir, all armies of occupation — & “occupation” is defined by the people of a land, NOT by the occupying power itself — are THEMSELVES responsible for the rights of the peoples whose land they have occupied, even though occupation is itself the deepest violation of those rights, under international law.

    But the people of an occupied land, sir, are not responsible for the rights of the army occupying their land. Being occupied, they can only try to protect their own stolen rights, they don’t have the power to protect the rights of their powerful occupiers.

    Indeed, under international law, the occupied people have the right to resist the army of occupation, as your own peoples often did throughout the British occupation.

    So, sir, the Kashmiri people are in no way resposible for the indian Army’s rights, nor can or should they be held to it.

    You speak of pakistan’s involvement in Kashmir. Are you surprised ? Colonised peoples take help where they find it. Indians fighting British occupation took aid from Britain’s enemies. Balochis fighting Pakistan get help from india.

    Are you surprised at all this,sir, when continuing injustice & occupation are fueling this problem ?

    .

  65. hi all,
    we, the common people from any corner of this world are the same! we all should protest in unison against the violation of human rights by the authorities irrespective of the place, the people involved, etc.
    these killings, fake encounters are going on in other parts of the world and India also, in north-east, all naxal / maoist affected areas… recently in the state of andhrapradesh two farmers, who were protesting against a thermal power project died in police firings and many injured.
    I'm not trying to say that it is similar to what is going on in Kashmir, I can imagine how would it be when the paramilitary forces / army is deployed in addition to the police.
    what I want to say is it would be better if we treat this as a human rights issue and not an issue of freedom fight or india-pakisthan war or hindu – muslim issue, atleast for now! even if we treat in that way no solution wil lcome out of it.
    we all should demand for the provision of basic amenities ,food, health, education, better transport facilities etc.. by the govt. whether it is India in India-occupied-kashmir or pakistan in Pak-occupied-kashmir or whatever you people feel it is…
    while I'm clearly not into the discussion of whether kashmir belongs to India or not I have an objection with comparing India in kashmir now with the British in pre-independent India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. The British never felt this land as their own, treated it as a suplier of raw material for their industries and a market for the finished products, racial superiority also was there…. where as all the pre-British rulers made India their home! I don't think now India has such an attitude towards Kashmir.

    well, this discussion will have no end…, I once again say that the issue now is not 'who is ruling' , it is the human rights violation, which we all should condemn.

  66. hi all,
    we, the common people from any corner of this world are the same! we all should protest in unison against the violation of human rights by the authorities irrespective of the place, the people involved, etc.
    these killings, fake encounters are going on in other parts of the world and India also, in north-east, all naxal / maoist affected areas… recently in the state of andhrapradesh two farmers, who were protesting against a thermal power project died in police firings and many injured.
    I’m not trying to say that it is similar to what is going on in Kashmir, I can imagine how would it be when the paramilitary forces / army is deployed in addition to the police.
    what I want to say is it would be better if we treat this as a human rights issue and not an issue of freedom fight or india-pakisthan war or hindu – muslim issue, atleast for now! even if we treat in that way no solution wil lcome out of it.
    we all should demand for the provision of basic amenities ,food, health, education, better transport facilities etc.. by the govt. whether it is India in India-occupied-kashmir or pakistan in Pak-occupied-kashmir or whatever you people feel it is…
    while I’m clearly not into the discussion of whether kashmir belongs to India or not I have an objection with comparing India in kashmir now with the British in pre-independent India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. The British never felt this land as their own, treated it as a suplier of raw material for their industries and a market for the finished products, racial superiority also was there…. where as all the pre-British rulers made India their home! I don’t think now India has such an attitude towards Kashmir.

    well, this discussion will have no end…, I once again say that the issue now is not ‘who is ruling’ , it is the human rights violation, which we all should condemn.