Sri Lanka: are releases of displaced civilians genuine?

Amnesty International has been calling on the Sri Lankan government to grant freedom of movement to over 250,000 displaced civilians now being held in internment camps in the north.  The government has said that it can’t allow civilians to leave the camps until they’ve been screened to determine if any of them are connected to the opposition Tamil Tigers.  (For more information on this subject, please see our Sri Lanka page.)  The Sri Lankan government has announced releases of some of the civilians.  But are they actually being released?

Amnesty has received reports that some of those released have apparently been transferred to other camps where they may be subjected to additional screening by local authorities.  The UN has also reported that some of the displaced civilians have been transferred from the camps and are now being held in transit sites in other areas with restricted freedom of movement.  The UN refugee agency last week said that they were concerned about approximately 3,300 displaced civilians who’ve been held in transit sites for more than two weeks rather than being returned to their homes.  A British minister visiting the camps this week said that the British government funding couldn’t support people simply being transferred from one “closed” camp (meaning, a camp which people aren’t free to leave) to another closed camp.

The displaced civilians should be immediately allowed to leave the camps if they wish.  Unlock the camps now!

AIUSA welcomes a lively and courteous discussion that follow our Community Guidelines. Comments are not pre-screened before they post but AIUSA reserves the right to remove any comments violating our guidelines.

546 thoughts on “Sri Lanka: are releases of displaced civilians genuine?

  1. Jim McDonald,

    There are many non-English speaking Tamils, or Tamils who’s English is poor – and understandably they have a keen interest in this site.

    They just want to post links – but you have a very exclusive policy on posts on this site.

    Their work is invaluable – and this site can be a hub for their work in publicizing the human rights crisis in Sri Lanka.

    Can you help them by being more accommodating to their desire to help suffering people in their native country?

    I applaud your desire to help – I just feel that were the rules of this site relaxed slightly, it would become more effective as a tool for concentrating and spreading vital information.

    Sincerely

    Mawatha Silva

  2. Jim McDonald,

    There are many non-English speaking Tamils, or Tamils who’s English is poor – and understandably they have a keen interest in this site.

    They just want to post links – but you have a very exclusive policy on posts on this site.

    Their work is invaluable – and this site can be a hub for their work in publicizing the human rights crisis in Sri Lanka.

    Can you help them by being more accommodating to their desire to help suffering people in their native country?

    I applaud your desire to help – I just feel that were the rules of this site relaxed slightly, it would become more effective as a tool for concentrating and spreading vital information.

    Sincerely

    Mawatha Silva

  3. I saw a massive flooding in the Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh has at least 230 people dead and more than 10 million survivors homeless.

    I think it’s going to be a hell in the Sri Lankan concentration camps when NE monsoon starts.

    Some Sri Lankan newspaper said that the SL government has taken rapid action in the construction of the drainage system there.

    However the images from the BBC are contradicting that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/82977

    As you see the, the drainage system is very shallow and utterly inadequate.

    The camps occupy vast tracts of formerly forested land near the northern town of Vavuniya.

    Because the ground on which many of the camps were built was cleared of trees recently, the soil is soft and porous.

    Many aid groups worry that the hastily built camps will not survive the inundation.

    Few months ago, he rain fell heavily for much of the afternoon , sent rivers of mud cascading between tightly packed rows of flimsy shelters, overflowed latrines , which have collapsed, sending human waste spilling all over camp.

    HR groups urged Sri Lanka yesterday to free 300,000 Tamils detained in camps since the defeat of the Tamil Tigers in May, warning that an outbreak of disease triggered by imminent monsoon rains could claim dozens of lives.

    Mike Foster, the UK Minister for International Development who is visiting Sri Lanka, also said that Britain would no longer provide any funding for the controversial barbed wire enclosures once the monsoon was over in two months.

    He added that many other donor countries were taking a similar position to put pressure on the Government to release the 300,000 Tamils who were detained after fleeing the frontline.

    “There’s a pressing need, with the monsoon impending, to get civilians out of the camps,” Mr Foster said after visiting two of the camps before meetings with Sri Lankan officials in Colombo yesterday.

    He said the monsoon, which is due to start this month, was almost certain to destroy tents already fraying after six months’ use, and to overload the camps’ rudimentary sewage systems, causing a flood of raw human waste.

    “Disease, if it takes hold, is going to spread rapidly. Without doubt there will a loss of life,” he said. “Given that there are 300,000 people living so close together, I’d hazard a guess that it’s going to be more than dozens.”

    Mr Foster said that progress on resettlement had been “disappointing”, that the majority of those in the concentration camps had already been screened, and that moving them to other concentration camps was “unacceptable”.

    “There really is no reason why they can’t return. If the gates are opened up, the IDPs can be the judge of whether it’s safe or not to go home,” he said. “That should be a choice for them.”

  4. I saw a massive flooding in the Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh has at least 230 people dead and more than 10 million survivors homeless.

    I think it’s going to be a hell in the Sri Lankan concentration camps when NE monsoon starts.

    Some Sri Lankan newspaper said that the SL government has taken rapid action in the construction of the drainage system there.

    However the images from the BBC are contradicting that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/82977

    As you see the, the drainage system is very shallow and utterly inadequate.

    The camps occupy vast tracts of formerly forested land near the northern town of Vavuniya.

    Because the ground on which many of the camps were built was cleared of trees recently, the soil is soft and porous.

    Many aid groups worry that the hastily built camps will not survive the inundation.

    Few months ago, he rain fell heavily for much of the afternoon , sent rivers of mud cascading between tightly packed rows of flimsy shelters, overflowed latrines , which have collapsed, sending human waste spilling all over camp.

    HR groups urged Sri Lanka yesterday to free 300,000 Tamils detained in camps since the defeat of the Tamil Tigers in May, warning that an outbreak of disease triggered by imminent monsoon rains could claim dozens of lives.

    Mike Foster, the UK Minister for International Development who is visiting Sri Lanka, also said that Britain would no longer provide any funding for the controversial barbed wire enclosures once the monsoon was over in two months.

    He added that many other donor countries were taking a similar position to put pressure on the Government to release the 300,000 Tamils who were detained after fleeing the frontline.

    “There’s a pressing need, with the monsoon impending, to get civilians out of the camps,” Mr Foster said after visiting two of the camps before meetings with Sri Lankan officials in Colombo yesterday.

    He said the monsoon, which is due to start this month, was almost certain to destroy tents already fraying after six months’ use, and to overload the camps’ rudimentary sewage systems, causing a flood of raw human waste.

    “Disease, if it takes hold, is going to spread rapidly. Without doubt there will a loss of life,” he said. “Given that there are 300,000 people living so close together, I’d hazard a guess that it’s going to be more than dozens.”

    Mr Foster said that progress on resettlement had been “disappointing”, that the majority of those in the concentration camps had already been screened, and that moving them to other concentration camps was “unacceptable”.

    “There really is no reason why they can’t return. If the gates are opened up, the IDPs can be the judge of whether it’s safe or not to go home,” he said. “That should be a choice for them.”

  5. I saw a massive flooding in the Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh has at least 230 people dead and more than 10 million survivors homeless.

    I think it’s going to be a hell in the Sri Lankan concentration camps when NE monsoon starts.

    Some Sri Lankan newspaper said that the SL government has taken rapid action in the construction of the drainage system there.

    However the images from the BBC are contradicting that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/82977

    As you see the, the drainage system is very shallow and utterly inadequate.

    The camps occupy vast tracts of formerly forested land near the northern town of Vavuniya.

    Because the ground on which many of the camps were built was cleared of trees recently, the soil is soft and porous.

    Many aid groups worry that the hastily built camps will not survive the inundation.

    Few months ago, he rain fell heavily for much of the afternoon , sent rivers of mud cascading between tightly packed rows of flimsy shelters, overflowed latrines , which have collapsed, sending human waste spilling all over camp.

    HR groups urged Sri Lanka yesterday to free 300,000 Tamils detained in camps since the defeat of the Tamil Tigers in May, warning that an outbreak of disease triggered by imminent monsoon rains could claim dozens of lives.

    Mike Foster, the UK Minister for International Development who is visiting Sri Lanka, also said that Britain would no longer provide any funding for the controversial barbed wire enclosures once the monsoon was over in two months.

    He added that many other donor countries were taking a similar position to put pressure on the Government to release the 300,000 Tamils who were detained after fleeing the frontline.

    “There’s a pressing need, with the monsoon impending, to get civilians out of the camps,” Mr Foster said after visiting two of the camps before meetings with Sri Lankan officials in Colombo yesterday.

    He said the monsoon, which is due to start this month, was almost certain to destroy tents already fraying after six months’ use, and to overload the camps’ rudimentary sewage systems, causing a flood of raw human waste.

    “Disease, if it takes hold, is going to spread rapidly. Without doubt there will a loss of life,” he said. “Given that there are 300,000 people living so close together, I’d hazard a guess that it’s going to be more than dozens.”

    Mr Foster said that progress on resettlement had been “disappointing”, that the majority of those in the concentration camps had already been screened, and that moving them to other concentration camps was “unacceptable”.

    “There really is no reason why they can’t return. If the gates are opened up, the IDPs can be the judge of whether it’s safe or not to go home,” he said. “That should be a choice for them.”

  6. Vannakam Mawatham,

    Apologies for correcting this but it should be Tamils whose English is poor.

    I agree with your requests for link postings. For every link alleging SL govt HR abuses, you must also find a post a relevant link showing LTTE HR abuses.

    Your main website, tamilnet.com is no longer as relevant as it used to be. So, now you try to hijack the AI site. An obvious if slightly transparent policy.

  7. In response to Mawatha Silva's comment of Oct. 9, 1:02 A.M., I would say that this site is not designed, as the Editors have said elsewhere, to be a bulletin board for people to simply post links to articles that might be of interest to others. It is intended for thoughtful, reasoned discussions of the issues raised in the original posts. A comment that makes certain points, and includes links to articles providing evidence for a commentor's points, would be appropriate. But simply providing links to interesting articles wouldn't be. Nor would it be appropriate to provide links to articles that repeat points already made, without adding anything to the discussion.

    There are many sites on the Internet. I presume those who are able to view this site are also able to access others which might serve the role you're looking for.

  8. Big Mac Genocide

    The concept of 'genuineness' has received a major boost today, thanks to the incredible hardships endured by the pro-LTTE diaspora.

    The pro-Eelam 'hunger-striker, "… Mr Subramaniyan, 28, had eased his ordeal by secretly eating McDonald's burgers.
    http://tinyurl.com/yhxe9sb

    The sacrifices demanded by Eelam and the LTTE are truly extraordinary.

  9. Why sri lanka not going to release tamils, It has China & Pakistan Cards

    Today, the upsurge of Sinhalese chauvinism flows from the fact that the Sri Lankan military accomplished a task whose pursuit forced the mightier Indian army to make an ignominious exit 19 years ago. Consequently, Colombo is going to be even less inclined than before to listen to New Delhi. Indeed, the manner in which Colombo played the China and Pakistan cards in recent years to outsmart India is likely to remain an enduring feature of Sri Lankan diplomacy, making Sri Lanka a potential springboard for anti-India maneuvers.

  10. Big Mac Genocide

    The concept of 'genuineness' has received a major boost today, thanks to the incredible hardships endured by the pro-LTTE diaspora.

    The pro-Eelam 'hunger-striker, "… Mr Subramaniyan, 28, had eased his ordeal by secretly eating McDonald's burgers.
    http://tinyurl.com/yhxe9sb

    The sacrifices demanded by Eelam and the LTTE are truly extraordinary.

  11. Big Mac Genocide

    The concept of 'genuineness' has received a major boost today, thanks to the incredible hardships endured by the pro-LTTE diaspora.

    The pro-Eelam 'hunger-striker, "… Mr Subramaniyan, 28, had eased his ordeal by secretly eating McDonald's burgers.
    http://tinyurl.com/yhxe9sb

    The sacrifices demanded by Eelam and the LTTE are truly extraordinary.

  12. I saw a massive flooding in the Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh has at least 230 people dead and more than 10 million survivors homeless.

    I think it’s going to be a hell in the Sri Lankan concentration camps when NE monsoon starts.

    Some Sri Lankan newspaper said that the SL government has taken rapid action in the construction of the drainage system there.

    However the images from the BBC are contradicting that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8297760.stm

    As you see the, the drainage system is very shallow and utterly inadequate.

    The camps occupy vast tracts of formerly forested land near the northern town of Vavuniya.

    Because the ground on which many of the camps were built was cleared of trees recently, the soil is soft and porous.

    Many aid groups worry that the hastily built camps will not survive the inundation.

    Few months ago, he rain fell heavily for much of the afternoon , sent rivers of mud cascading between tightly packed rows of flimsy shelters, overflowed latrines , which have collapsed, sending human waste spilling all over camp.

    HR groups urged Sri Lanka yesterday to free 300,000 Tamils detained in camps since the defeat of the Tamil Tigers in May, warning that an outbreak of disease triggered by imminent monsoon rains could claim dozens of lives.

    Mike Foster, the UK Minister for International Development who is visiting Sri Lanka, also said that Britain would no longer provide any funding for the controversial barbed wire enclosures once the monsoon was over in two months.

    He added that many other donor countries were taking a similar position to put pressure on the Government to release the 300,000 Tamils who were detained after fleeing the frontline.

    “There’s a pressing need, with the monsoon impending, to get civilians out of the camps,” Mr Foster said after visiting two of the camps before meetings with Sri Lankan officials in Colombo yesterday.

    He said the monsoon, which is due to start this month, was almost certain to destroy tents already fraying after six months’ use, and to overload the camps’ rudimentary sewage systems, causing a flood of raw human waste.

    “Disease, if it takes hold, is going to spread rapidly. Without doubt there will a loss of life,” he said. “Given that there are 300,000 people living so close together, I’d hazard a guess that it’s going to be more than dozens.”

    Mr Foster said that progress on resettlement had been “disappointing”, that the majority of those in the concentration camps had already been screened, and that moving them to other concentration camps was “unacceptable”.

    “There really is no reason why they can’t return. If the gates are opened up, the IDPs can be the judge of whether it’s safe or not to go home,” he said. “That should be a choice for them.”

  13. Jim:

    Should we not be deleting Mr.Mango's comment? It is absolutely irrelevant and out of context. Such out-of-context comments are intended to trivialize the issue being talked of here. I have no doubt that these are SL government paid agents deputed to indulge in such activities on important international internet forums.

    Once you delete Mr.Mango's comment, please delete mine too.

  14. Vannakam Mawatham,

    Apologies for correcting this but it should be Tamils whose English is poor.

    I agree with your requests for link postings. For every link alleging SL govt HR abuses, you must also find a post a relevant link showing LTTE HR abuses.

    Your main website, tamilnet.com is no longer as relevant as it used to be. So, now you try to hijack the AI site. An obvious if slightly transparent policy.

  15. Humanitarian Human,

    I’ve read Mango’s reply to you from another thread and it’s a bit rude. I choose to ignore his discourteous posts and I suggest that you do too. Mango’s wish to acquire power by intimidating others- perhaps because he feel inadequate or essentially powerless in some way- by way of compensation. People with such an odium in their hearts cannot be happy people so I choose to feel sorry for you.

  16. In response to Mawatha Silva’s comment of Oct. 9, 1:02 A.M., I would say that this site is not designed, as the Editors have said elsewhere, to be a bulletin board for people to simply post links to articles that might be of interest to others. It is intended for thoughtful, reasoned discussions of the issues raised in the original posts. A comment that makes certain points, and includes links to articles providing evidence for a commentor’s points, would be appropriate. But simply providing links to interesting articles wouldn’t be. Nor would it be appropriate to provide links to articles that repeat points already made, without adding anything to the discussion.

    There are many sites on the Internet. I presume those who are able to view this site are also able to access others which might serve the role you’re looking for.

  17. I'm sorry to disappoint you both, but my post about the brave soldier of Eelam gorging on Big Macs (Cholesterol Genocide?) whilst claiming to be 'genuinely' on hunger strike is indeed perfect proof of the counterfeit nature of so many of the absurd claims made by Eelamists. It is perfectly relevant and totally in context. Unlike many of the news links posted on these blog discussions.

    The MacD slogan of "I'm lovin' it perfectly summarises the deceitful nature of LTTE proxies and supporters.

    David Parajasingham, spokesman for the British Tamils' Forum (the UK's main LTTE front) said it best: "In our culture, people go on hunger strike. There are at least three students around the world also on hunger strike at this time, over this issue. In our culture, when people do this, they follow it through," he added. "They are not afraid to die."

    Well, they certainly confronted death in the face by stuffing themselves with Big Macs.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/11/srila

    As for the rest of Humi's and Mawatham's accusations, I have to disappoint you. I'm neither rude, nor discourteous nor threatening. Evidence of my threatening behaviour would be welcome.

    As for being a "SL government paid agent..", I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted!

  18. Mango,

    Why David Parajasingham have to die?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment???
    ********************************************************
    With so many things happening to the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the world has failed to notice the way the Tamils have been oppressed.

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization.

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    BTW
    Apologies for correcting this but the words should not be repeated twice. http://blog.amnestyusa.org/iar/two-hazards-for-sr
    “soul mates of white racist racist supremacist organisations “ :)

  19. Why sri lanka not going to release tamils, It has China & Pakistan Cards

    Today, the upsurge of Sinhalese chauvinism flows from the fact that the Sri Lankan military accomplished a task whose pursuit forced the mightier Indian army to make an ignominious exit 19 years ago. Consequently, Colombo is going to be even less inclined than before to listen to New Delhi. Indeed, the manner in which Colombo played the China and Pakistan cards in recent years to outsmart India is likely to remain an enduring feature of Sri Lankan diplomacy, making Sri Lanka a potential springboard for anti-India maneuvers.

  20. Big Mac Genocide

    The concept of ‘genuineness’ has received a major boost today, thanks to the incredible hardships endured by the pro-LTTE diaspora.

    The pro-Eelam ‘hunger-striker, “… Mr Subramaniyan, 28, had eased his ordeal by secretly eating McDonald’s burgers.

    http://tinyurl.com/yhxe9sb

    The sacrifices demanded by Eelam and the LTTE are truly extraordinary.

  21. I'm sorry to disappoint you both, but my post about the brave soldier of Eelam gorging on Big Macs (Cholesterol Genocide?) whilst claiming to be 'genuinely' on hunger strike is indeed perfect proof of the counterfeit nature of so many of the absurd claims made by Eelamists. It is perfectly relevant and totally in context. Unlike many of the news links posted on these blog discussions.

    The MacD slogan of "I'm lovin' it perfectly summarises the deceitful nature of LTTE proxies and supporters.

    David Parajasingham, spokesman for the British Tamils' Forum (the UK's main LTTE front) said it best: "In our culture, people go on hunger strike. There are at least three students around the world also on hunger strike at this time, over this issue. In our culture, when people do this, they follow it through," he added. "They are not afraid to die."

    Well, they certainly confronted death in the face by stuffing themselves with Big Macs.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/11/srila

    As for the rest of Humi's and Mawatham's accusations, I have to disappoint you. I'm neither rude, nor discourteous nor threatening. Evidence of my threatening behaviour would be welcome.

    As for being a "SL government paid agent..", I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted!

  22. I'm sorry to disappoint you both, but my post about the brave soldier of Eelam gorging on Big Macs (Cholesterol Genocide?) whilst claiming to be 'genuinely' on hunger strike is indeed perfect proof of the counterfeit nature of so many of the absurd claims made by Eelamists. It is perfectly relevant and totally in context. Unlike many of the news links posted on these blog discussions.

    The MacD slogan of "I'm lovin' it perfectly summarises the deceitful nature of LTTE proxies and supporters.

    David Parajasingham, spokesman for the British Tamils' Forum (the UK's main LTTE front) said it best: "In our culture, people go on hunger strike. There are at least three students around the world also on hunger strike at this time, over this issue. In our culture, when people do this, they follow it through," he added. "They are not afraid to die."

    Well, they certainly confronted death in the face by stuffing themselves with Big Macs.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/11/srila

    As for the rest of Humi's and Mawatham's accusations, I have to disappoint you. I'm neither rude, nor discourteous nor threatening. Evidence of my threatening behaviour would be welcome.

    As for being a "SL government paid agent..", I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted!

  23. Jim:

    Should we not be deleting Mr.Mango’s comment? It is absolutely irrelevant and out of context. Such out-of-context comments are intended to trivialize the issue being talked of here. I have no doubt that these are SL government paid agents deputed to indulge in such activities on important international internet forums.

    Once you delete Mr.Mango’s comment, please delete mine too.

  24. Mango,

    Why David Parajasingham have to die?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment???
    ********************************************************
    With so many things happening to the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the world has failed to notice the way the Tamils have been oppressed.

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization.

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    BTW
    Apologies for correcting this but the words should not be repeated twice. http://blog.amnestyusa.org/iar/two-hazards-for-sr
    “soul mates of white racist racist supremacist organisations “ :)

  25. Mango,

    Why David Parajasingham have to die?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment???
    ********************************************************
    With so many things happening to the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the world has failed to notice the way the Tamils have been oppressed.

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization.

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    BTW
    Apologies for correcting this but the words should not be repeated twice. http://blog.amnestyusa.org/iar/two-hazards-for-sr
    “soul mates of white racist racist supremacist organisations “ :)

  26. Humanitarian Human,

    I’ve read Mango’s reply to you from another thread and it’s a bit rude. I choose to ignore his discourteous posts and I suggest that you do too. Mango’s wish to acquire power by intimidating others- perhaps because he feel inadequate or essentially powerless in some way- by way of compensation. People with such an odium in their hearts cannot be happy people so I choose to feel sorry for you.

  27. I’m sorry to disappoint you both, but my post about the brave soldier of Eelam gorging on Big Macs (Cholesterol Genocide?) whilst claiming to be ‘genuinely’ on hunger strike is indeed perfect proof of the counterfeit nature of so many of the absurd claims made by Eelamists. It is perfectly relevant and totally in context. Unlike many of the news links posted on these blog discussions.

    The MacD slogan of “I’m lovin’ it perfectly summarises the deceitful nature of LTTE proxies and supporters.

    David Parajasingham, spokesman for the British Tamils’ Forum (the UK’s main LTTE front) said it best: “In our culture, people go on hunger strike. There are at least three students around the world also on hunger strike at this time, over this issue. In our culture, when people do this, they follow it through,” he added. “They are not afraid to die.”

    Well, they certainly confronted death in the face by stuffing themselves with Big Macs.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/11/srilanka-protest

    As for the rest of Humi’s and Mawatham’s accusations, I have to disappoint you. I’m neither rude, nor discourteous nor threatening. Evidence of my threatening behaviour would be welcome.

    As for being a “SL government paid agent..”, I’m not sure whether to be flattered or insulted!

  28. Mango,

    Why David Parajasingham have to die?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment???
    ********************************************************
    With so many things happening to the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the world has failed to notice the way the Tamils have been oppressed.

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization.

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    BTW
    Apologies for correcting this but the words should not be repeated twice.
    http://blog.amnestyusa.org/iar/two-hazards-for-sri-lankan-displaced-civilians/
    “soul mates of white racist racist supremacist organisations “ :)

  29. The United States on Friday called on the Sri Lankan government to allow Tamil refugees displaced by recent fighting to move freely around the country. Assistant US Secretary of State Robert Blake, who is focussed on US relations with central and southern Asia, "emphasized the importance of the government allowing freedom of movement for IDPs," or internally displaced people, read a State Department statement. While the Sri Lankan government "has made some progress easing camp congestion, registering IDPs, and expanding access by humanitarian organizations, much remains to be done," Blake said

    The Sri Lankan parliament has approved an additional 20% budget for the country's military for the remainder of this year. The government says the cash boost is necessary despite the end of the long-running war in May because the security forces still need strengthening. That was the government's argument as it pushed for an additional $300m to be added to the military budget. The extra cash is on top of the record $1.6bn already allocated this year. The money was approved by parliament which also extended by a further month the country's state of emergency, nearly five months after the end of the war.

  30. Dear Jim MD

    I kindly urge you to look / see beyond the current situation. It is not the time to be a man of the moment, but the man for all times.

    I trust I have repeatedly mentioned in many forums that the bigger picture goes beyond detention of mere 250,000 or 300,000 people. It is to do with the well being of 20 million people who are from different ethnic and religious backgrounds living in a battered land called Sri Lanka.

    Haven't this 20 million suffered enough for you? Where do you want this to head ? Another war ?? If the government says that there are LTTE carders hidden among normal civilians including Maha Vira Families, and if they say that they will release them over time just to ENSURE security to the balance 20 million, can't we relax a bit – I am not saying that you should stop watching out, but, act with more responsibility towards a whole nation.

    Also it is important for you to know that during the screening process, the government would come across LTTE'rs and I seriously don't expect AI to pressurize the GOSL to release them without rehabilitation. Remember, this is a huge headache for the others in the country too – it is our tax money that goes in to feeding and maintaining them. But, I would prefer to walk n the streets without fear than worry about my Tax money.

    Jim – we finally feel peaceful in this country – none of you will understand this feeling unless you have been in this situation – I personally have escaped 3 Bombings in Colombo and I don't want to try my luck on a 4th…

  31. LOL @ the funny posts…

    Well, English is not many of ours mother tong. So I don't see any reason for anyone to be ashamed if they do not use it right. I though Alfonso in his own right did a pretty decent Job (though it was not in line with the topics) in speaking his mind out.

    As for Mahapare Silva – gene or forecaster – predicting a massive flood in the camp areas – Can you please forecast as to when the rains will come – at the moment there is kind of a drought in the North and East and the people are looking forward to the monsoons to hit hard.

    As for the other comments

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization. Who created the situation ? SL army ?? This is the very reason we are urging you to join us eradicate the remaining Terrorists so that we can move freely – as you know the Railway is being done and the Buses are back – so there is travel between Jaffna and other parts by Bus now. I seriously wish I had found the you tube link of the government advertisement about the Program to build the friendship between North and South – please watch it if you can – the one with regard to building the Train rack

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    As in many other posts, I am asking you to give a reasonable solution where we can ensure No Terrorist escapes. You talked about 1 year old children in a previous post, I trust at that tender age they need their parents who are not Kids to be with them – Won't quite fit the bill ha?

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    Better living in the Slums of Colombo ? You mean Jaffna was worse than Slums of Colombo ? All the people I know are living quite fine in most of the modern apartment complexes and Hailing the LTTE just because they got a chance to see the world than suffer in the paws of the LTTE. They are living better than some of the others who had lived in these areas for many more years. Even I get stopped at check points and I get irritated too – but that is what the LTTE did to all of us immaterial of Ethnicity. At least now I know that it will not be for long…

    BTW – Click on Jim Pappa to see another lovely links

  32. A crucial report on Sri Lanka’s alleged war crimes is scheduled to be released soon by the US Department. It prepared by Stephen Rapp, who served as Senior Trial Attorney and Chief of Prosecutions at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.

    The report, which could determine United State’s future financial assistance to the island, will be handed over to the US Congress for evaluation.

    US Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes Issues, Stephen Rapp in an interview with Time magazine on disclosed that his office was now primarily focusing on Sri Lanka and a report from the Department of State on the war in Sri Lanka is due in US Congress.

    The Office of War Crimes Issues, together with the Secretary for Global Affairs and the Secretary of State, has the responsibility to collect information on ongoing atrocities, and it is then the responsibility of the President (Barak Obama) to determine what steps might be taken towards justice.

    In the Amendment 1169 to H.R. 2346, an Act making supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, US Senators had earlier proposed to “prohibit certain forms of financial support to Sri Lanka,” unless certification is made by the Secretary of State that “Sri Lanka has taken certain steps to address the humanitarian situation in areas affected by the conflict in Sri Lanka.”

    Thus, the forthcoming war crimes report by the Department of State is mandated by the above Act.

    Meanwhile, a source in the US told that State Department officials have already contacted and obtained eye witness accounts from a number of persons who have given details on alleged war crimes committed in Sri Lanka.

    The Office of War Crimes Issues helps formulate US policy responding to atrocities in areas of conflict around the globe.

    Mid this year, President Obama appointed Rapp, as his Ambassador at Large for War Crimes Issues. As head of the Office of War Crimes Issues, Rapp directly reports to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton regarding a wide range of war crimes issues — from Darfur to Burma to Sri Lanka.

  33. The United States on Friday called on the Sri Lankan government to allow Tamil refugees displaced by recent fighting to move freely around the country. Assistant US Secretary of State Robert Blake, who is focussed on US relations with central and southern Asia, “emphasized the importance of the government allowing freedom of movement for IDPs,” or internally displaced people, read a State Department statement. While the Sri Lankan government “has made some progress easing camp congestion, registering IDPs, and expanding access by humanitarian organizations, much remains to be done,” Blake said

    The Sri Lankan parliament has approved an additional 20% budget for the country’s military for the remainder of this year. The government says the cash boost is necessary despite the end of the long-running war in May because the security forces still need strengthening. That was the government’s argument as it pushed for an additional $300m to be added to the military budget. The extra cash is on top of the record $1.6bn already allocated this year. The money was approved by parliament which also extended by a further month the country’s state of emergency, nearly five months after the end of the war.

  34. Dear Jim MD

    I kindly urge you to look / see beyond the current situation. It is not the time to be a man of the moment, but the man for all times.

    I trust I have repeatedly mentioned in many forums that the bigger picture goes beyond detention of mere 250,000 or 300,000 people. It is to do with the well being of 20 million people who are from different ethnic and religious backgrounds living in a battered land called Sri Lanka.

    Haven’t this 20 million suffered enough for you? Where do you want this to head ? Another war ?? If the government says that there are LTTE carders hidden among normal civilians including Maha Vira Families, and if they say that they will release them over time just to ENSURE security to the balance 20 million, can’t we relax a bit – I am not saying that you should stop watching out, but, act with more responsibility towards a whole nation.

    Also it is important for you to know that during the screening process, the government would come across LTTE’rs and I seriously don’t expect AI to pressurize the GOSL to release them without rehabilitation. Remember, this is a huge headache for the others in the country too – it is our tax money that goes in to feeding and maintaining them. But, I would prefer to walk n the streets without fear than worry about my Tax money.

    Jim – we finally feel peaceful in this country – none of you will understand this feeling unless you have been in this situation – I personally have escaped 3 Bombings in Colombo and I don’t want to try my luck on a 4th…

  35. LOL @ the funny posts…

    Well, English is not many of ours mother tong. So I don’t see any reason for anyone to be ashamed if they do not use it right. I though Alfonso in his own right did a pretty decent Job (though it was not in line with the topics) in speaking his mind out.

    As for Mahapare Silva – gene or forecaster – predicting a massive flood in the camp areas – Can you please forecast as to when the rains will come – at the moment there is kind of a drought in the North and East and the people are looking forward to the monsoons to hit hard.

    As for the other comments

    1. For several years now the Tamils in the North (Jaffna) are living in an open prison governed by the Sri Lankan military, with all night curfew and severe restrictions on movement and travel– the only way out of Jaffna being the expensive air travel after authorization. Who created the situation ? SL army ?? This is the very reason we are urging you to join us eradicate the remaining Terrorists so that we can move freely – as you know the Railway is being done and the Buses are back – so there is travel between Jaffna and other parts by Bus now. I seriously wish I had found the you tube link of the government advertisement about the Program to build the friendship between North and South – please watch it if you can – the one with regard to building the Train rack

    2. The 300 000 Tamils of Vanni, now languish in concentration camps and as a Sinhalese gentleman classified are really Forcibly displaced People (FDP).

    As in many other posts, I am asking you to give a reasonable solution where we can ensure No Terrorist escapes. You talked about 1 year old children in a previous post, I trust at that tender age they need their parents who are not Kids to be with them – Won’t quite fit the bill ha?

    3. The remaining Tamils of SL living elsewhere (in Colombo) are the real IDPs – who are invariably recent migrants (with some means) to the southern cities, having left their traditional homelands to eke out a relatively better living in the slums of Colombo even ignoring the regular demeaning searches at checkpoints and arrests for being a Tamil.

    Better living in the Slums of Colombo ? You mean Jaffna was worse than Slums of Colombo ? All the people I know are living quite fine in most of the modern apartment complexes and Hailing the LTTE just because they got a chance to see the world than suffer in the paws of the LTTE. They are living better than some of the others who had lived in these areas for many more years. Even I get stopped at check points and I get irritated too – but that is what the LTTE did to all of us immaterial of Ethnicity. At least now I know that it will not be for long…

    BTW – Click on Jim Pappa to see another lovely links

  36. A crucial report on Sri Lanka’s alleged war crimes is scheduled to be released soon by the US Department. It prepared by Stephen Rapp, who served as Senior Trial Attorney and Chief of Prosecutions at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.

    The report, which could determine United State’s future financial assistance to the island, will be handed over to the US Congress for evaluation.

    US Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes Issues, Stephen Rapp in an interview with Time magazine on disclosed that his office was now primarily focusing on Sri Lanka and a report from the Department of State on the war in Sri Lanka is due in US Congress.

    The Office of War Crimes Issues, together with the Secretary for Global Affairs and the Secretary of State, has the responsibility to collect information on ongoing atrocities, and it is then the responsibility of the President (Barak Obama) to determine what steps might be taken towards justice.

    In the Amendment 1169 to H.R. 2346, an Act making supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, US Senators had earlier proposed to “prohibit certain forms of financial support to Sri Lanka,” unless certification is made by the Secretary of State that “Sri Lanka has taken certain steps to address the humanitarian situation in areas affected by the conflict in Sri Lanka.”

    Thus, the forthcoming war crimes report by the Department of State is mandated by the above Act.

    Meanwhile, a source in the US told that State Department officials have already contacted and obtained eye witness accounts from a number of persons who have given details on alleged war crimes committed in Sri Lanka.

    The Office of War Crimes Issues helps formulate US policy responding to atrocities in areas of conflict around the globe.

    Mid this year, President Obama appointed Rapp, as his Ambassador at Large for War Crimes Issues. As head of the Office of War Crimes Issues, Rapp directly reports to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton regarding a wide range of war crimes issues — from Darfur to Burma to Sri Lanka.

  37. Sri lanka said, ltte kept tamils as human shield, after sri lanka killed over 50,000 tamils in the death zone, remaining 300,0000 in the death camps as HOSTAGE over 5 months.

    Sri Lanka President Mahinda Rajapakse has appointed Rev. Warapitiya Rahula Thero as the curator for archaeological artifacts in Jaffna peninsula in an attempt to fabricate evidence to show the Sinhalese masses and the outer world that traces of Buddhism in Jaffna peninsula are exclusively Sinhalese, sources in Jaffna said. Rev. Rahula Thero will be working from an office that is to be soon built in the ‘Old Park’ located next to Jaffna Secretariat. Jaffna Museum which had lain neglected for more than 30 years and looted during successive Sri Lanka Army (SLA) offensives on the peninsula is to be relocated to the new archaeological department in Old Park where Rev. Rahula Thero will go into action following in the footsteps of the successive Sinhalese regimes which have tried to rewrite the history of Sri Lanka in favour of Sinhalese Buddhists, the sources added.

    Please don't Click on "Release 300,000 Tamil hostage from state terror" to see another lovely links

  38. The plight of Tamil IDPs in Sri Lanka continues to deteriorate due to the intransigent attitude of Sri Lankan government with callous disregard to human rights of the Tamil people. As we all know, recent reports of international Human Rights organizations and other NGOs and emerging video footages and eyewitness accounts portray a very grim picture of those who live in the internment camps. An unimaginable humanitarian catastrophe have been brewing that might culminate in dire consequences.

    Have we clearly learned the lessons from the mass atrocities against our fellow human beings since Srebrenica and Rwanda in our recent past? This will repeat itself if we, the international community especially UN, let it happen. The international community has left the Tamil people in Sri Lanka, who have already become unsung victims of crimes against humanity and war crimes, to their fate. Those suspected of war crimes and crimes against humanity must be brought to justice. Justice and accountability are necessary preconditions for an ever-lasting just peace. Tamil people earnestly appeal to the UN and other world bodies for a just peace with human dignity with recognition of their fundamental political aspirations. We do not need a peace of graveyard, but a just meaningful peace. The current humiliating and degrading conditions of the Tamil people in the internment camps risk to jeopardize any possible future peace making efforts and only cultivate resentment and hatred in the hearts of the Tamils in the island of Sri Lanka.

    The Tamil people in those camps have reached their peak of suffering and are on the brink of collapse. If the UN are not ready for an urgent and concrete action, then who is? If not now, when? What is needed is the determination and willingness of the greater international community to act. UN inaction and conspicuous absence only leads to fail the people who suffer in the illegal detention camps. Those who suffer in a very hostile environment surrounded by barbed wires and Sri Lankan Armed Forces and Paramilitaries are undergoing very serious degrading human treatment which is a humiliation to the whole humanity and human conscience.

  39. Sri lanka said, ltte kept tamils as human shield, after sri lanka killed over 50,000 tamils in the death zone, remaining 300,0000 in the death camps as HOSTAGE over 5 months.

    Sri Lanka President Mahinda Rajapakse has appointed Rev. Warapitiya Rahula Thero as the curator for archaeological artifacts in Jaffna peninsula in an attempt to fabricate evidence to show the Sinhalese masses and the outer world that traces of Buddhism in Jaffna peninsula are exclusively Sinhalese, sources in Jaffna said. Rev. Rahula Thero will be working from an office that is to be soon built in the ‘Old Park’ located next to Jaffna Secretariat. Jaffna Museum which had lain neglected for more than 30 years and looted during successive Sri Lanka Army (SLA) offensives on the peninsula is to be relocated to the new archaeological department in Old Park where Rev. Rahula Thero will go into action following in the footsteps of the successive Sinhalese regimes which have tried to rewrite the history of Sri Lanka in favour of Sinhalese Buddhists, the sources added.

    Please don’t Click on “Release 300,000 Tamil hostage from state terror” to see another lovely links

  40. The plight of Tamil IDPs in Sri Lanka continues to deteriorate due to the intransigent attitude of Sri Lankan government with callous disregard to human rights of the Tamil people. As we all know, recent reports of international Human Rights organizations and other NGOs and emerging video footages and eyewitness accounts portray a very grim picture of those who live in the internment camps. An unimaginable humanitarian catastrophe have been brewing that might culminate in dire consequences.

    Have we clearly learned the lessons from the mass atrocities against our fellow human beings since Srebrenica and Rwanda in our recent past? This will repeat itself if we, the international community especially UN, let it happen. The international community has left the Tamil people in Sri Lanka, who have already become unsung victims of crimes against humanity and war crimes, to their fate. Those suspected of war crimes and crimes against humanity must be brought to justice. Justice and accountability are necessary preconditions for an ever-lasting just peace. Tamil people earnestly appeal to the UN and other world bodies for a just peace with human dignity with recognition of their fundamental political aspirations. We do not need a peace of graveyard, but a just meaningful peace. The current humiliating and degrading conditions of the Tamil people in the internment camps risk to jeopardize any possible future peace making efforts and only cultivate resentment and hatred in the hearts of the Tamils in the island of Sri Lanka.

    The Tamil people in those camps have reached their peak of suffering and are on the brink of collapse. If the UN are not ready for an urgent and concrete action, then who is? If not now, when? What is needed is the determination and willingness of the greater international community to act. UN inaction and conspicuous absence only leads to fail the people who suffer in the illegal detention camps. Those who suffer in a very hostile environment surrounded by barbed wires and Sri Lankan Armed Forces and Paramilitaries are undergoing very serious degrading human treatment which is a humiliation to the whole humanity and human conscience.

  41. Mango,

    Many Tamil students were doing hunger strike to compel the international community and governments to open their eyes and look at the atrocities that was happening to the innocent Tamil civilians.

    One of the hunger–strike was Prarameswaran Subramaniam.

    His whole family was wiped out by the Sri Lankan Armed Forces indiscriminate shelling.

    His mother, his sisters, his brother and his nephew were butchered.

    So, in your opinion, he has to die too?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment??

    How callous and pitiless you are.

  42. Jim McDonald

    Sorry for double post.
    Can you please address the plight of the children it the internment camps.
    How many children are there?
    How can i help them??
    Do you know any organizations, I can complain to?
    Sincerely
    Mawatha Silva

  43. Mawatham,

    Complain to the people who intend to continue the LTTE's good work in improving communal relations in SL.

    Rudrakumaran Visuvanathan
    CEO of LTTE / Provisional Transsexual Government of Tamil Eelam (PTGTE)
    875 Avenue Of The Americas, #2309
    New York, NY 10001-3507
    Phone: (212) 290-2925
    http://tinyurl.com/yl5uvhv

    His specialty is Deportation Defense. Who said irony was dead?
    So, that's how the LTTE maintains its' finances. http://tinyurl.com/ylnmbag

    Deportation Genocide, coming soon to the USA.

  44. Mawatham,

    Complain to the people who intend to continue the LTTE's good work in improving communal relations in SL.

    Rudrakumaran Visuvanathan
    CEO of LTTE / Provisional Transsexual Government of Tamil Eelam (PTGTE)
    875 Avenue Of The Americas, #2309
    New York, NY 10001-3507
    Phone: (212) 290-2925
    http://tinyurl.com/yl5uvhv

    His specialty is Deportation Defense. Who said irony was dead?
    So, that's how the LTTE maintains its' finances. http://tinyurl.com/ylnmbag

    Deportation Genocide, coming soon to the USA.

  45. Mawatham,

    Complain to the people who intend to continue the LTTE's good work in improving communal relations in SL.

    Rudrakumaran Visuvanathan
    CEO of LTTE / Provisional Transsexual Government of Tamil Eelam (PTGTE)
    875 Avenue Of The Americas, #2309
    New York, NY 10001-3507
    Phone: (212) 290-2925
    http://tinyurl.com/yl5uvhv

    His specialty is Deportation Defense. Who said irony was dead?
    So, that's how the LTTE maintains its' finances. http://tinyurl.com/ylnmbag

    Deportation Genocide, coming soon to the USA.

  46. Mango,

    Many Tamil students were doing hunger strike to compel the international community and governments to open their eyes and look at the atrocities that was happening to the innocent Tamil civilians.

    One of the hunger–strike was Prarameswaran Subramaniam.

    His whole family was wiped out by the Sri Lankan Armed Forces indiscriminate shelling.

    His mother, his sisters, his brother and his nephew were butchered.

    So, in your opinion, he has to die too?

    For your delightful pleasure and entertainment??

    How callous and pitiless you are.

  47. For the past three months, a Tamil woman has been living in a concentration camp in Menik farm with her husband and three children.

    Two weeks ago, her five-year-old son had a fever and was barely responding. She carried him to the clinic in the camp at 5am and queued until 6pm to see a doctor. Like many others that day, she did not get to see a doctor and she returned with her sick child to their tent without receiving treatment. She went back the next day and again failed to see a doctor after waiting for another 13 hours. It wasn’t until the third day that she finally managed to see a doctor who gave her some antibiotics.

    The doctors in the concentration camps are seeing 200 to 300 patients a day, there is little capacity to carry out tests or follow up with patients and only the most urgent cases are transferred to hospitals outside the camps.

    Another 24-year-old woman arrived in Menik Farm at the end of May and is badly disfigured since a fragment of bomb shell cut her lips, cheeks and chins during the conflict. Her mouth is always open, her tongue is badly affected and she can barely drink and cannot speak. She is in need of reconstructive surgery, which is not available inside the camp.

    When her wounds became infected, she went in pain to the camp’s clinic. There a doctor was unable to do anything for her and she was not transferred to a hospital outside the camp because she was not considered to be an emergency case. She spends her days lying in the sand outside her tent, waiting for the day to pass.

    The problem comes at night. In many camps, if someone gets sick at night they have to rely on the soldier at the gate of the camp to take the decision on whether they get referred to a hospital or not.

  48. Jim McDonald

    Sorry for double post.
    Can you please address the plight of the children it the internment camps.
    How many children are there?
    How can i help them??
    Do you know any organizations, I can complain to?
    Sincerely
    Mawatha Silva

  49. Mawatham,

    This sad story should make the LTTE-supporting diaspora think again. Have any of you thought to engage with the SL govt instead of confronting them? If the last three years have taught you and your NGO buddies anything, it is that this and any future SL govt will not be dictated to about resolving the ethnic problem. Look what confrontation and a 'no-compromise' stance finally did for the LTTE.

    Ask yourself the question, 'how best can we help the IDPs to lead normal lives again?'. It certainly won't be through trying to drag SL into Int'l HR Trials. Co-operation rather than confrontation will get you more (in life) and with the SL govt and SL peoples. Think of a more intelligent version of that absurd and misguided Vanangaman 'Mercy' ship saga.

    Why not organise (with the co-operation of SL govt & opposition parties, without pre-conditions and rants about genocide etc) a group of SL Diaspora Tamil doctors to offer their services in the IDP camps? We already know that SL needs financial and other assistance to care for and re-settle the IDPs. Why wait for Western bloc NGOs to this work for you?

    We know that during the period of LTTE rule in the North & East, many Western-based SL Tamil medics (and others) journeyed to help in those areas. Continuing this HR monkey dance will not speed up the reconciliation, re-settlement and re-building.

  50. Mawatham,

    Complain to the people who intend to continue the LTTE’s good work in improving communal relations in SL.

    Rudrakumaran Visuvanathan
    CEO of LTTE / Provisional Transsexual Government of Tamil Eelam (PTGTE)
    875 Avenue Of The Americas, #2309
    New York, NY 10001-3507
    Phone: (212) 290-2925

    http://tinyurl.com/yl5uvhv

    His specialty is Deportation Defense. Who said irony was dead?
    So, that’s how the LTTE maintains its’ finances. http://tinyurl.com/ylnmbag

    Deportation Genocide, coming soon to the USA.

  51. Mango ,

    It is a pleasant surprise your desire to engage in a constructive dialogue. Although it is getting tiresome , that you are asking for cooperation rather than confrontation , yet you seem to be the complete opposite , you have not shown any level of cooperation but I will give you the respect of dialogue despite being called a terrorist , because I am trying to be constructive… let’s stop the dance of accusations and get to what is important , the innocent people who are dying every day , while you and I just argue about it. Lets free these people and then we can sit down and have a civilized symposium about the problems and how they can be resolved , otherwise it is just delaying tactics while people are being killed. Everyone has the right to a fair trail in front of a judge and jury of their peers. If someone is proven guilty then so be it, but they have to go through the due process of law. The world is unanimous in its voice in freeing the 300,00 people who are in concentration camps and need to be immediately freed.

  52. For the past three months, a Tamil woman has been living in a concentration camp in Menik farm with her husband and three children.

    Two weeks ago, her five-year-old son had a fever and was barely responding. She carried him to the clinic in the camp at 5am and queued until 6pm to see a doctor. Like many others that day, she did not get to see a doctor and she returned with her sick child to their tent without receiving treatment. She went back the next day and again failed to see a doctor after waiting for another 13 hours. It wasn’t until the third day that she finally managed to see a doctor who gave her some antibiotics.

    The doctors in the concentration camps are seeing 200 to 300 patients a day, there is little capacity to carry out tests or follow up with patients and only the most urgent cases are transferred to hospitals outside the camps.

    Another 24-year-old woman arrived in Menik Farm at the end of May and is badly disfigured since a fragment of bomb shell cut her lips, cheeks and chins during the conflict. Her mouth is always open, her tongue is badly affected and she can barely drink and cannot speak. She is in need of reconstructive surgery, which is not available inside the camp.

    When her wounds became infected, she went in pain to the camp’s clinic. There a doctor was unable to do anything for her and she was not transferred to a hospital outside the camp because she was not considered to be an emergency case. She spends her days lying in the sand outside her tent, waiting for the day to pass.

    The problem comes at night. In many camps, if someone gets sick at night they have to rely on the soldier at the gate of the camp to take the decision on whether they get referred to a hospital or not.

  53. Mawatham,

    This sad story should make the LTTE-supporting diaspora think again. Have any of you thought to engage with the SL govt instead of confronting them? If the last three years have taught you and your NGO buddies anything, it is that this and any future SL govt will not be dictated to about resolving the ethnic problem. Look what confrontation and a ‘no-compromise’ stance finally did for the LTTE.

    Ask yourself the question, ‘how best can we help the IDPs to lead normal lives again?’. It certainly won’t be through trying to drag SL into Int’l HR Trials. Co-operation rather than confrontation will get you more (in life) and with the SL govt and SL peoples. Think of a more intelligent version of that absurd and misguided Vanangaman ‘Mercy’ ship saga.

    Why not organise (with the co-operation of SL govt & opposition parties, without pre-conditions and rants about genocide etc) a group of SL Diaspora Tamil doctors to offer their services in the IDP camps? We already know that SL needs financial and other assistance to care for and re-settle the IDPs. Why wait for Western bloc NGOs to this work for you?

    We know that during the period of LTTE rule in the North & East, many Western-based SL Tamil medics (and others) journeyed to help in those areas. Continuing this HR monkey dance will not speed up the reconciliation, re-settlement and re-building.

  54. Mango ,

    It is a pleasant surprise your desire to engage in a constructive dialogue. Although it is getting tiresome , that you are asking for cooperation rather than confrontation , yet you seem to be the complete opposite , you have not shown any level of cooperation but I will give you the respect of dialogue despite being called a terrorist , because I am trying to be constructive… let’s stop the dance of accusations and get to what is important , the innocent people who are dying every day , while you and I just argue about it. Lets free these people and then we can sit down and have a civilized symposium about the problems and how they can be resolved , otherwise it is just delaying tactics while people are being killed. Everyone has the right to a fair trail in front of a judge and jury of their peers. If someone is proven guilty then so be it, but they have to go through the due process of law. The world is unanimous in its voice in freeing the 300,00 people who are in concentration camps and need to be immediately freed.

  55. I still see Spamming in the site – Cutting and pasting – Why can't people have a discussion here ??

    Release 300,000 Tamils, Ethnic cleansing – Please try and make conversation than Spamming…

    and FYI, Sri Lankan scenario is totally different to of what Happened in Rwanda. No Ethnic group tried to wipe out another ethnic group in Sri Lanka, but a whole country worked as one to eliminate Terrorism so that all could live in peace and harmony. I recently went to Batticaloa and was so happy to see people from all ethnic groups living happily. More importantly, they were happy to see us and treated us really well – I made a few friends there who are pretty cool people.

    So please don't try to give any wrong picture about the situation nor mislead people. I think the AI should refrain people from publishing such false articles on this site.

  56. Nearly five thousand Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) brought to the islets of Jaffna from Vavuniyaa camps are being held by Sri Lanka Navy (SLN) within newly constructed internment camps without allowing them to go out of the camps or to meet their relatives, sources in Jaffna said. Meanwhile, some of the IDPs handed over to their relatives and held in abandoned houses too are not permitted by the SLN to leave their places or to meet their relatives, NGO representatives in Jaffna said.

    The IDPs detained in the SLN camps are given only dry food rations while breakfast and lunch are given four to five hours behind time. Dinner is not given on most of the days, the sources added.

    The IDPs are daily subjected to interrogation in the SLN camps and the IDPs express fear that youths among them are being screened and taken to special internment camps, religious priests who visited the IDP internment camps in the islets said.

    The above SLN internment camps do not have sufficient basic facilities and the IDPs are not allowed to seek medical treatment in Jaffna Teaching Hospital, the sources added.

  57. The one who needs Worming Treatment !!

    Want Ayurvedic or Western Medicine ??

    Who told you these lies ? I guess it's not the SL government who is lying but you who is purging worms !!

    Again a cut and Past fan… Surely people, can't you get involved in a decent conversation ? I seriously miss Alfonso !!

  58. With all these people penned up unnecessarily in terrible conditions, the situation in these camps is getting tense and ugly. If they aren’t out of there before the monsoons hit, their lives and health will be in serious danger.
    Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Tensions Mount as Camp Conditions Deteriorate http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/09/sri-lanka-t

    Whoever on the paylist of sri lanka propaganda section has to think
    Are they(or their family) prepaired to live in those camps atleast one day? now over 5 months.
    Allow free media? Allow all NGO's? Atleast allow elected MP's?
    Over 50,000 Children are in the camp. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8297760.stm
    Unlock the camps

  59. Puthinam is a Pro LTTE – or in other words a Pro Terrorist web site.

    If a Pro – Al Quaida web site publishes an article, I trust 85% of the world will not take it seriously – As for the LTTE – I guess the bar is even higher – 99% will not believe it !!

    So – How is lying to whom ??

    can we at least now stop the cutting and pasting ?

    AI – you loose credibility when you allow a Pro-Terrorist activities to happen on site too !!

  60. With all these people penned up unnecessarily in terrible conditions, the situation in these camps is getting tense and ugly. If they aren’t out of there before the monsoons hit, their lives and health will be in serious danger.
    Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Tensions Mount as Camp Conditions Deteriorate http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/09/sri-lanka-t

    Whoever on the paylist of sri lanka propaganda section has to think
    Are they(or their family) prepaired to live in those camps atleast one day? now over 5 months.
    Allow free media? Allow all NGO's? Atleast allow elected MP's?
    Over 50,000 Children are in the camp. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8297760.stm
    Unlock the camps

  61. With all these people penned up unnecessarily in terrible conditions, the situation in these camps is getting tense and ugly. If they aren’t out of there before the monsoons hit, their lives and health will be in serious danger.
    Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Tensions Mount as Camp Conditions Deteriorate http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/09/sri-lanka-t

    Whoever on the paylist of sri lanka propaganda section has to think
    Are they(or their family) prepaired to live in those camps atleast one day? now over 5 months.
    Allow free media? Allow all NGO's? Atleast allow elected MP's?
    Over 50,000 Children are in the camp. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8297760.stm
    Unlock the camps

  62. Aayu Bowan, Mango

    It is time for ALL Sri Lankans to stand up and be counted instead of meekly watching what is left of their once legitimate SL government as it tramples human rights and freedoms in all corners of the Island… starting with the 300 000 innocent civilians who are now prisoners of war in a Country no longer at war. Their continued interment is despicable and unlawful and an insult to democracy

    BTW I was in the midst of celebrations. Why? General Fonseka has been well rewarded for his estimable service to the King and Country :)
    Tiger beer was delicious, but my post …… Oh, well

  63. I still see Spamming in the site – Cutting and pasting – Why can’t people have a discussion here ??

    Release 300,000 Tamils, Ethnic cleansing – Please try and make conversation than Spamming…

    and FYI, Sri Lankan scenario is totally different to of what Happened in Rwanda. No Ethnic group tried to wipe out another ethnic group in Sri Lanka, but a whole country worked as one to eliminate Terrorism so that all could live in peace and harmony. I recently went to Batticaloa and was so happy to see people from all ethnic groups living happily. More importantly, they were happy to see us and treated us really well – I made a few friends there who are pretty cool people.

    So please don’t try to give any wrong picture about the situation nor mislead people. I think the AI should refrain people from publishing such false articles on this site.

  64. Nearly five thousand Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) brought to the islets of Jaffna from Vavuniyaa camps are being held by Sri Lanka Navy (SLN) within newly constructed internment camps without allowing them to go out of the camps or to meet their relatives, sources in Jaffna said. Meanwhile, some of the IDPs handed over to their relatives and held in abandoned houses too are not permitted by the SLN to leave their places or to meet their relatives, NGO representatives in Jaffna said.

    The IDPs detained in the SLN camps are given only dry food rations while breakfast and lunch are given four to five hours behind time. Dinner is not given on most of the days, the sources added.

    The IDPs are daily subjected to interrogation in the SLN camps and the IDPs express fear that youths among them are being screened and taken to special internment camps, religious priests who visited the IDP internment camps in the islets said.

    The above SLN internment camps do not have sufficient basic facilities and the IDPs are not allowed to seek medical treatment in Jaffna Teaching Hospital, the sources added.

  65. The one who needs Worming Treatment !!

    Want Ayurvedic or Western Medicine ??

    Who told you these lies ? I guess it’s not the SL government who is lying but you who is purging worms !!

    Again a cut and Past fan… Surely people, can’t you get involved in a decent conversation ? I seriously miss Alfonso !!

  66. Puthinam is a Pro LTTE – or in other words a Pro Terrorist web site.

    If a Pro – Al Quaida web site publishes an article, I trust 85% of the world will not take it seriously – As for the LTTE – I guess the bar is even higher – 99% will not believe it !!

    So – How is lying to whom ??

    can we at least now stop the cutting and pasting ?

    AI – you loose credibility when you allow a Pro-Terrorist activities to happen on site too !!

  67. Jaffnaites snub delegation
    http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Refugees+make+tearful+appeal+to+MPs&artid=GRshI4gjFtU=&SectionID=oHSKVfNWYm0=&MainSectionID=oHSKVfNWYm0=&SEO=JAFFNA,+LANKA,+TAMILS,+LTTE,+DELEGATON&SectionName=VfE7I/Vl8os=

    Selected MP’s from india as visitors to concentration camps, elected MP’s are not allowed, now over 5 months.

    “Our position is clear and frank…We consider the military occupation of our land a terrorist act.”
    —Yasser Arafat

  68. With all these people penned up unnecessarily in terrible conditions, the situation in these camps is getting tense and ugly. If they aren’t out of there before the monsoons hit, their lives and health will be in serious danger.
    Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Tensions Mount as Camp Conditions Deteriorate
    http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/09/sri-lanka-tensions-mount-camp-conditions-deteriorate

    Whoever on the paylist of sri lanka propaganda section has to think
    Are they(or their family) prepaired to live in those camps atleast one day? now over 5 months.
    Allow free media? Allow all NGO’s? Atleast allow elected MP’s?
    Over 50,000 Children are in the camp.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8297760.stm
    Unlock the camps

  69. SL leaders are vomiting worms of lies

    Your links are invaluable.
    Please continue to expose the appalling human rights (HR) abuses in Sri Lanka

    Jim Pappa

    When you start to engage in a constructive dialogue, like Mango does?

    What about the HRs of 300,000 innocent civilians,
    who are your Mother Lanka citizens ?

    Why are you blind to their plight ?

    BTW – Click on – SL leaders are vomiting worms of lies
    There…. you will see your favorite SL Patriot :)

  70. Tnambi,

    If I want to read links, I can find them on my own on the Internet and read them. I don't need someone to cut and past the stuff I already read. I also believe that sites like this should not be abused to insert articles but talk your mind, what you have to say which will be more constructive and could be taken as coming from a persons Heart. When cutting and pasting, it is being a mouth piece to some party and in the case of the person who has eaten the rotten stuff and purging worms, it is from Pro-LTTE sites – which is in my opinion supporting Terrorism – Now let me ask you a question as to whether you endorse Terrorism ? Do you endorse suffering of 20 million civilians of all ethnic groups ?

    To answer your questions,

    My Mother Lanka has citizens of many social classes, religions and races like in many other countries – and FYI, they are called Sri Lankans. They amount to 20 Million individuals.

    I am not blind to the plight of the 300,000 (or 240,000) individuals in camps. They are suffering by all means and I have no argument on that. My argument is that as Intelligent human beings, whether we understand the requirement of having such facility for a temporary period or not. I firmly believe it is necessary as we need to look at a log term peace process and a plan for all 20 million citizens than a short term gain of a 300,000.

    Can I ask you whether you were blind folded all these years when the Singhala and Muslim community who were chased out were suffering in camps for more than 20 years ? Where did your humanitarian soul hide during that era ??

    Since you directed the question at me – I personally would like to see them returning to peaceful cleared areas ASAP and I hope you guys will help that cause and not distract the cause.

    Also FYI, it is very hard to find patriots these days and I don't believe in many either – specially if they are politicians. I only want to live in peace as I have suffered for the past 30 years with the majority. I don't want to see any more civilians being killed just because you and a few others want to free a few others want to get a few people released without going through a proper process.

    If you want to do so, you better come and live in this country too – let's see whether you could go on the streets without getting bombed !!

  71. Vannakam Mawatham Anna,

    Now that the war-war is over, jaw-jaw should be a the focus of our efforts. I've never called you a terrorist, merely a presumed supporter of the LTTE, based on your writing. A pedantic, but subtle difference. I agree with the focus on IDPs, but we have to also agree on terminology. Genocide, concentration camps, hundreds being murdered daily and the rest are irritating propagandizing slogans and impediments to a meaningful dialogue.

    Agree with fair trials, transparency etc. The SL govt's (understandable) paranoia and lack of info about precise numbers and their locations is in fact hurting their int'l image and allowing pro-LTTE diaspora to control the media story. But, I repeat, whatever the world is 'unanimous' about, you have to deal constructively with the SL govt. Further, remember that the world is NOT just the Western bloc, although Westerners tend to, (in their infinite and unjustified sense of moral superiority) to forget this.

    Screaming and shouting as the NGOs like Brad Adams and his acolytes at HRW tend to do is not helping. It will only make the govt even more stubborn.

    This is basic psychology. If you want something, do you get it by threats or through a conciliatory approach? The threat (LTTE) was tried for 30+ years and didn't work. I don't see any evidence that the Diaspora LTTE supporters are ready to even begin the conciliatory discussion phase.

    I'll leave it, as usual for Dyan Jayatilleke to encapsulate it best.

    "While the Tiger army has been decimated, the Tiger movement still exists, is global, and has a higher profile than ever before. It is a threat to the Sri Lankan state and society but it cannot deliver Tamil Eelam because a small minority really cannot carve out a separate state on a small island on which the vast majority is unalterably opposed to the idea, is willing pay a heavy price and wage war to prevent such an outcome, and will always throw up a leadership capable of doing so. If there is another Prabhakaran, as some portentously claim there will be, there will also be another Mahinda Rajapakse, another Gotabhaya Rajapakse and another Sarath Fonseka."

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

    So, to re-cap, as long as the LTTE Diaspora ally themselves with external forces (e.g. Western bloc ex-colonial countries & INGO HR organisations), to pressurise the SL govt, as they're currently doing, they will probably not get the desired result.

    You may not like this outcome, but that's reality.

  72. Aayu Bowan, Mango

    It is time for ALL Sri Lankans to stand up and be counted instead of meekly watching what is left of their once legitimate SL government as it tramples human rights and freedoms in all corners of the Island… starting with the 300 000 innocent civilians who are now prisoners of war in a Country no longer at war. Their continued interment is despicable and unlawful and an insult to democracy

    BTW I was in the midst of celebrations. Why? General Fonseka has been well rewarded for his estimable service to the King and Country :)
    Tiger beer was delicious, but my post …… Oh, well

  73. Vannakam Mawatham Anna,

    Now that the war-war is over, jaw-jaw should be a the focus of our efforts. I've never called you a terrorist, merely a presumed supporter of the LTTE, based on your writing. A pedantic, but subtle difference. I agree with the focus on IDPs, but we have to also agree on terminology. Genocide, concentration camps, hundreds being murdered daily and the rest are irritating propagandizing slogans and impediments to a meaningful dialogue.

    Agree with fair trials, transparency etc. The SL govt's (understandable) paranoia and lack of info about precise numbers and their locations is in fact hurting their int'l image and allowing pro-LTTE diaspora to control the media story. But, I repeat, whatever the world is 'unanimous' about, you have to deal constructively with the SL govt. Further, remember that the world is NOT just the Western bloc, although Westerners tend to, (in their infinite and unjustified sense of moral superiority) to forget this.

    Screaming and shouting as the NGOs like Brad Adams and his acolytes at HRW tend to do is not helping. It will only make the govt even more stubborn.

    This is basic psychology. If you want something, do you get it by threats or through a conciliatory approach? The threat (LTTE) was tried for 30+ years and didn't work. I don't see any evidence that the Diaspora LTTE supporters are ready to even begin the conciliatory discussion phase.

    I'll leave it, as usual for Dyan Jayatilleke to encapsulate it best.

    "While the Tiger army has been decimated, the Tiger movement still exists, is global, and has a higher profile than ever before. It is a threat to the Sri Lankan state and society but it cannot deliver Tamil Eelam because a small minority really cannot carve out a separate state on a small island on which the vast majority is unalterably opposed to the idea, is willing pay a heavy price and wage war to prevent such an outcome, and will always throw up a leadership capable of doing so. If there is another Prabhakaran, as some portentously claim there will be, there will also be another Mahinda Rajapakse, another Gotabhaya Rajapakse and another Sarath Fonseka."

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

    So, to re-cap, as long as the LTTE Diaspora ally themselves with external forces (e.g. Western bloc ex-colonial countries & INGO HR organisations), to pressurise the SL govt, as they're currently doing, they will probably not get the desired result.

    You may not like this outcome, but that's reality.

  74. Vannakam Mawatham Anna,

    Now that the war-war is over, jaw-jaw should be a the focus of our efforts. I've never called you a terrorist, merely a presumed supporter of the LTTE, based on your writing. A pedantic, but subtle difference. I agree with the focus on IDPs, but we have to also agree on terminology. Genocide, concentration camps, hundreds being murdered daily and the rest are irritating propagandizing slogans and impediments to a meaningful dialogue.

    Agree with fair trials, transparency etc. The SL govt's (understandable) paranoia and lack of info about precise numbers and their locations is in fact hurting their int'l image and allowing pro-LTTE diaspora to control the media story. But, I repeat, whatever the world is 'unanimous' about, you have to deal constructively with the SL govt. Further, remember that the world is NOT just the Western bloc, although Westerners tend to, (in their infinite and unjustified sense of moral superiority) to forget this.

    Screaming and shouting as the NGOs like Brad Adams and his acolytes at HRW tend to do is not helping. It will only make the govt even more stubborn.

    This is basic psychology. If you want something, do you get it by threats or through a conciliatory approach? The threat (LTTE) was tried for 30+ years and didn't work. I don't see any evidence that the Diaspora LTTE supporters are ready to even begin the conciliatory discussion phase.

    I'll leave it, as usual for Dyan Jayatilleke to encapsulate it best.

    "While the Tiger army has been decimated, the Tiger movement still exists, is global, and has a higher profile than ever before. It is a threat to the Sri Lankan state and society but it cannot deliver Tamil Eelam because a small minority really cannot carve out a separate state on a small island on which the vast majority is unalterably opposed to the idea, is willing pay a heavy price and wage war to prevent such an outcome, and will always throw up a leadership capable of doing so. If there is another Prabhakaran, as some portentously claim there will be, there will also be another Mahinda Rajapakse, another Gotabhaya Rajapakse and another Sarath Fonseka."

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

    So, to re-cap, as long as the LTTE Diaspora ally themselves with external forces (e.g. Western bloc ex-colonial countries & INGO HR organisations), to pressurise the SL govt, as they're currently doing, they will probably not get the desired result.

    You may not like this outcome, but that's reality.

  75. SL leaders are vomiting worms of lies

    Your links are invaluable.
    Please continue to expose the appalling human rights (HR) abuses in Sri Lanka

    Jim Pappa

    When you start to engage in a constructive dialogue, like Mango does?

    What about the HRs of 300,000 innocent civilians,
    who are your Mother Lanka citizens ?

    Why are you blind to their plight ?

    BTW – Click on – SL leaders are vomiting worms of lies
    There…. you will see your favorite SL Patriot :)

  76. Mawatham,

    Is that dreary cut-n-paste from Eelam 101, your idea of a dialogue? The same old LTTE drivel is being re-cycled. At least you can now claim to be meeting 100% re-cycling targets and helping to save the planet. Why not save us all time and just number your responses, like this.

    Dial 1 to listen to "It's all the fault of the demonic Sinhala hegemonists,

    Dial 2 to listen to "The Tamil race is being Silently Genocided"

    Dial 3 to listen to "Unceasing efforts by the racist Sinhala regime to colonise the ancient Tamil homelands must be resisted"

    Dial 4 to listen to "Tamils living in Colombo are all temporary refugees and are not part of the fabric of the Capital"

    etc… etc … and repeat ad nauseum.

    I really expected something … more nuanced and thoughtful to my response.

    If there really is an "obvious retreat from democracy", explain to us, Large Minded LTTE Propagandist, the meaning of the recent election results in Southern Sri Lanka. I realise that pro-LTTE thinkers have problems understanding the concept of elections, since the now-departed 'Sun God' didn't like to subject his Glorious Self to such demeaning popularity contests.

    So, I'll make it easy for you. The brainwashed SL voters appear to be quite sophisticated, according this analysis in 'The Island', a non-govt newspaper.

    "The southerners' message to the government, the UNP and the JVP is loud and clear. While being grateful to the President and his government for services rendered, the most outstanding being the defeat of the LTTE, they have given the President a blistering tokka (knock) on his executive pate by way of a warning. They have told the President that the time has come for his government to stop relying on the Opposition's weakness and people’s memories of military victories to win elections; it has to be mindful of people's problems and be responsive to criticisms of its failure to live up to their expectations in the post-war period.

    The South has delivered a thundering knuckle sandwich to the UNP and a kick in its derriere to boot and told its leader Ranil Wickremesinghe and his cabal of cronies mismanaging the affairs of the Grand Old Party, in no uncertain terms, that they cannot think of coming back to power until they redeem their souls mortgaged to anti-national forces.

    The JVP is known to southerners for what it really is and they have wisely given the outfit three seats (or, let us say, an electoral dole) to encourage it to remain in the democratic mainstream without repeating the mistake of reverting to the much dreaded galkatas politics, the brunt of which the South had to bear on two occasions, in 1971 and in the late 1980s."
    http://www.island.lk/2009/10/12/editorial.html

    I really do wish that someone from the SL govt would send me that big fat cheque you keep mentioning. I could buy a really big Elite Cubicle and hire more servants with the cash.

  77. There is not now, nor has there been for years, a shortage of small-minded propagandists of the Sri Lankan government.

    The Pro GoSL apologists who fail to see the obvious retreat from democracy and decency that is the Rajapaska regime rely endlessly on the propagated myths that any and all who oppose their point of view are paid lackeys of their opposite numbers.

    Sri Lanka will never awake from its troubled sleep so long as so many are willing to enjoy the kool-aid offered by the extremists .

    In the end it will be more than the Tamil minorities who suffer as the present rot will eventually turn what should be a paradise on earth into nothing more than a despotic regime bent on enabling a smaller and smaller elite in their quenchless thirst for money and power.

  78. Tnambi,

    If I want to read links, I can find them on my own on the Internet and read them. I don’t need someone to cut and past the stuff I already read. I also believe that sites like this should not be abused to insert articles but talk your mind, what you have to say which will be more constructive and could be taken as coming from a persons Heart. When cutting and pasting, it is being a mouth piece to some party and in the case of the person who has eaten the rotten stuff and purging worms, it is from Pro-LTTE sites – which is in my opinion supporting Terrorism – Now let me ask you a question as to whether you endorse Terrorism ? Do you endorse suffering of 20 million civilians of all ethnic groups ?

    To answer your questions,

    My Mother Lanka has citizens of many social classes, religions and races like in many other countries – and FYI, they are called Sri Lankans. They amount to 20 Million individuals.

    I am not blind to the plight of the 300,000 (or 240,000) individuals in camps. They are suffering by all means and I have no argument on that. My argument is that as Intelligent human beings, whether we understand the requirement of having such facility for a temporary period or not. I firmly believe it is necessary as we need to look at a log term peace process and a plan for all 20 million citizens than a short term gain of a 300,000.

    Can I ask you whether you were blind folded all these years when the Singhala and Muslim community who were chased out were suffering in camps for more than 20 years ? Where did your humanitarian soul hide during that era ??

    Since you directed the question at me – I personally would like to see them returning to peaceful cleared areas ASAP and I hope you guys will help that cause and not distract the cause.

    Also FYI, it is very hard to find patriots these days and I don’t believe in many either – specially if they are politicians. I only want to live in peace as I have suffered for the past 30 years with the majority. I don’t want to see any more civilians being killed just because you and a few others want to free a few others want to get a few people released without going through a proper process.

    If you want to do so, you better come and live in this country too – let’s see whether you could go on the streets without getting bombed !!

  79. Mawatham,

    Is that dreary cut-n-paste from Eelam 101, your idea of a dialogue? The same old LTTE drivel is being re-cycled. At least you can now claim to be meeting 100% re-cycling targets and helping to save the planet. Why not save us all time and just number your responses, like this.

    Dial 1 to listen to "It's all the fault of the demonic Sinhala hegemonists,

    Dial 2 to listen to "The Tamil race is being Silently Genocided"

    Dial 3 to listen to "Unceasing efforts by the racist Sinhala regime to colonise the ancient Tamil homelands must be resisted"

    Dial 4 to listen to "Tamils living in Colombo are all temporary refugees and are not part of the fabric of the Capital"

    etc… etc … and repeat ad nauseum.

    I really expected something … more nuanced and thoughtful to my response.

    If there really is an "obvious retreat from democracy", explain to us, Large Minded LTTE Propagandist, the meaning of the recent election results in Southern Sri Lanka. I realise that pro-LTTE thinkers have problems understanding the concept of elections, since the now-departed 'Sun God' didn't like to subject his Glorious Self to such demeaning popularity contests.

    So, I'll make it easy for you. The brainwashed SL voters appear to be quite sophisticated, according this analysis in 'The Island', a non-govt newspaper.

    "The southerners' message to the government, the UNP and the JVP is loud and clear. While being grateful to the President and his government for services rendered, the most outstanding being the defeat of the LTTE, they have given the President a blistering tokka (knock) on his executive pate by way of a warning. They have told the President that the time has come for his government to stop relying on the Opposition's weakness and people’s memories of military victories to win elections; it has to be mindful of people's problems and be responsive to criticisms of its failure to live up to their expectations in the post-war period.

    The South has delivered a thundering knuckle sandwich to the UNP and a kick in its derriere to boot and told its leader Ranil Wickremesinghe and his cabal of cronies mismanaging the affairs of the Grand Old Party, in no uncertain terms, that they cannot think of coming back to power until they redeem their souls mortgaged to anti-national forces.

    The JVP is known to southerners for what it really is and they have wisely given the outfit three seats (or, let us say, an electoral dole) to encourage it to remain in the democratic mainstream without repeating the mistake of reverting to the much dreaded galkatas politics, the brunt of which the South had to bear on two occasions, in 1971 and in the late 1980s."
    http://www.island.lk/2009/10/12/editorial.html

    I really do wish that someone from the SL govt would send me that big fat cheque you keep mentioning. I could buy a really big Elite Cubicle and hire more servants with the cash.

  80. Mawatham,

    Is that dreary cut-n-paste from Eelam 101, your idea of a dialogue? The same old LTTE drivel is being re-cycled. At least you can now claim to be meeting 100% re-cycling targets and helping to save the planet. Why not save us all time and just number your responses, like this.

    Dial 1 to listen to "It's all the fault of the demonic Sinhala hegemonists,

    Dial 2 to listen to "The Tamil race is being Silently Genocided"

    Dial 3 to listen to "Unceasing efforts by the racist Sinhala regime to colonise the ancient Tamil homelands must be resisted"

    Dial 4 to listen to "Tamils living in Colombo are all temporary refugees and are not part of the fabric of the Capital"

    etc… etc … and repeat ad nauseum.

    I really expected something … more nuanced and thoughtful to my response.

    If there really is an "obvious retreat from democracy", explain to us, Large Minded LTTE Propagandist, the meaning of the recent election results in Southern Sri Lanka. I realise that pro-LTTE thinkers have problems understanding the concept of elections, since the now-departed 'Sun God' didn't like to subject his Glorious Self to such demeaning popularity contests.

    So, I'll make it easy for you. The brainwashed SL voters appear to be quite sophisticated, according this analysis in 'The Island', a non-govt newspaper.

    "The southerners' message to the government, the UNP and the JVP is loud and clear. While being grateful to the President and his government for services rendered, the most outstanding being the defeat of the LTTE, they have given the President a blistering tokka (knock) on his executive pate by way of a warning. They have told the President that the time has come for his government to stop relying on the Opposition's weakness and people’s memories of military victories to win elections; it has to be mindful of people's problems and be responsive to criticisms of its failure to live up to their expectations in the post-war period.

    The South has delivered a thundering knuckle sandwich to the UNP and a kick in its derriere to boot and told its leader Ranil Wickremesinghe and his cabal of cronies mismanaging the affairs of the Grand Old Party, in no uncertain terms, that they cannot think of coming back to power until they redeem their souls mortgaged to anti-national forces.

    The JVP is known to southerners for what it really is and they have wisely given the outfit three seats (or, let us say, an electoral dole) to encourage it to remain in the democratic mainstream without repeating the mistake of reverting to the much dreaded galkatas politics, the brunt of which the South had to bear on two occasions, in 1971 and in the late 1980s."
    http://www.island.lk/2009/10/12/editorial.html

    I really do wish that someone from the SL govt would send me that big fat cheque you keep mentioning. I could buy a really big Elite Cubicle and hire more servants with the cash.

  81. Vannakam Mawatham Anna,

    Now that the war-war is over, jaw-jaw should be a the focus of our efforts. I’ve never called you a terrorist, merely a presumed supporter of the LTTE, based on your writing. A pedantic, but subtle difference. I agree with the focus on IDPs, but we have to also agree on terminology. Genocide, concentration camps, hundreds being murdered daily and the rest are irritating propagandizing slogans and impediments to a meaningful dialogue.

    Agree with fair trials, transparency etc. The SL govt’s (understandable) paranoia and lack of info about precise numbers and their locations is in fact hurting their int’l image and allowing pro-LTTE diaspora to control the media story. But, I repeat, whatever the world is ‘unanimous’ about, you have to deal constructively with the SL govt. Further, remember that the world is NOT just the Western bloc, although Westerners tend to, (in their infinite and unjustified sense of moral superiority) to forget this.

    Screaming and shouting as the NGOs like Brad Adams and his acolytes at HRW tend to do is not helping. It will only make the govt even more stubborn.

    This is basic psychology. If you want something, do you get it by threats or through a conciliatory approach? The threat (LTTE) was tried for 30+ years and didn’t work. I don’t see any evidence that the Diaspora LTTE supporters are ready to even begin the conciliatory discussion phase.

    I’ll leave it, as usual for Dyan Jayatilleke to encapsulate it best.

    “While the Tiger army has been decimated, the Tiger movement still exists, is global, and has a higher profile than ever before. It is a threat to the Sri Lankan state and society but it cannot deliver Tamil Eelam because a small minority really cannot carve out a separate state on a small island on which the vast majority is unalterably opposed to the idea, is willing pay a heavy price and wage war to prevent such an outcome, and will always throw up a leadership capable of doing so. If there is another Prabhakaran, as some portentously claim there will be, there will also be another Mahinda Rajapakse, another Gotabhaya Rajapakse and another Sarath Fonseka.”

    External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors.”

    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

    So, to re-cap, as long as the LTTE Diaspora ally themselves with external forces (e.g. Western bloc ex-colonial countries & INGO HR organisations), to pressurise the SL govt, as they’re currently doing, they will probably not get the desired result.

    You may not like this outcome, but that’s reality.

  82. Mango
    Thanks for a hilarious post.
    However, I think you are not interested in intellectual exchange of ideas with me. Tut tut
    P.S. I’ll reply in soon

  83. Pingback: Shambhala SunSpace » On the Buddhism Beat: Buddhist world-news headlines and delightful odds and ends

  84. In response to Mawatha Silva's comment of Oct. 11, 9:09 A.M., I would respond as follows:
    1. I don't know how many children are currently in the camps; the last AI public statement referred to "at least 50,000" as an estimate.
    2. As for how you could help them or what organization you could complain to, you might try the aid agencies that currently have access to the camps and see if they have anything to suggest. Sorry I don't have anything more specific.

    In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 10, 2:10 A.M., I would respond that AI will not "relax" while human rights violations are occurring. The Sri Lankan government isn't entitled to hold a civilian population in indefinite detention because there might be LTTE cadre among them. If accepted, that argument would equally allow the government to detain the entire Tamil population of Colombo indefinitely until a "screening process" established that none of them were actually hidden Tiger agents. Holding the IDPs in the camps as they are doing is not exactly promoting reconciliation among the communities; surely that's a better way to avoid another war than treating the IDPs as though they're all potential enemies.

    In response to those posting links to articles or simply repeating the text of certain articles or stories, please refrain from doing so. My Oct. 9 comment explains the purpose of this site. Please don't abuse the commenting priviliage.

  85. There is not now, nor has there been for years, a shortage of small-minded propagandists of the Sri Lankan government.

    The Pro GoSL apologists who fail to see the obvious retreat from democracy and decency that is the Rajapaska regime rely endlessly on the propagated myths that any and all who oppose their point of view are paid lackeys of their opposite numbers.

    Sri Lanka will never awake from its troubled sleep so long as so many are willing to enjoy the kool-aid offered by the extremists .

    In the end it will be more than the Tamil minorities who suffer as the present rot will eventually turn what should be a paradise on earth into nothing more than a despotic regime bent on enabling a smaller and smaller elite in their quenchless thirst for money and power.

  86. Mawatham,

    It would've been nice if you could've at least tried to constructively discuss some of the questions I raised earlier at 8.10pm about what next for Eelam supporters in and outside SL. Your ethnicity is not the point. If you supported the Eelam project, are you going to engage with the SL govt or continue to oppose it from afar in conjunction with the INGO circus?

    Your claim not to be an LTTE supporter is hard to believe. I'd be more convinced if that was your real position, if you'd share with us, your thoughts on the LTTE hostage-taking of the entire Vanni population and subsequent executions of civilians trying to escape the NFZ. I don't think I'll get an answer to that or to my previous questions about LTTE ethnic cleansing which resulted in the now-forgotten 'other' IDPs.

    I feel your pain …. it must be simply too difficult, no?

  87. Mawatham,

    Is that dreary cut-n-paste from Eelam 101, your idea of a dialogue? The same old LTTE drivel is being re-cycled. At least you can now claim to be meeting 100% re-cycling targets and helping to save the planet. Why not save us all time and just number your responses, like this.

    Dial 1 to listen to “It’s all the fault of the demonic Sinhala hegemonists,

    Dial 2 to listen to “The Tamil race is being Silently Genocided”

    Dial 3 to listen to “Unceasing efforts by the racist Sinhala regime to colonise the ancient Tamil homelands must be resisted”

    Dial 4 to listen to “Tamils living in Colombo are all temporary refugees and are not part of the fabric of the Capital”

    etc… etc … and repeat ad nauseum.

    I really expected something … more nuanced and thoughtful to my response.

    If there really is an “obvious retreat from democracy”, explain to us, Large Minded LTTE Propagandist, the meaning of the recent election results in Southern Sri Lanka. I realise that pro-LTTE thinkers have problems understanding the concept of elections, since the now-departed ‘Sun God’ didn’t like to subject his Glorious Self to such demeaning popularity contests.

    So, I’ll make it easy for you. The brainwashed SL voters appear to be quite sophisticated, according this analysis in ‘The Island’, a non-govt newspaper.

    “The southerners’ message to the government, the UNP and the JVP is loud and clear. While being grateful to the President and his government for services rendered, the most outstanding being the defeat of the LTTE, they have given the President a blistering tokka (knock) on his executive pate by way of a warning. They have told the President that the time has come for his government to stop relying on the Opposition’s weakness and people’s memories of military victories to win elections; it has to be mindful of people’s problems and be responsive to criticisms of its failure to live up to their expectations in the post-war period.

    The South has delivered a thundering knuckle sandwich to the UNP and a kick in its derriere to boot and told its leader Ranil Wickremesinghe and his cabal of cronies mismanaging the affairs of the Grand Old Party, in no uncertain terms, that they cannot think of coming back to power until they redeem their souls mortgaged to anti-national forces.

    The JVP is known to southerners for what it really is and they have wisely given the outfit three seats (or, let us say, an electoral dole) to encourage it to remain in the democratic mainstream without repeating the mistake of reverting to the much dreaded galkatas politics, the brunt of which the South had to bear on two occasions, in 1971 and in the late 1980s.”

    http://www.island.lk/2009/10/12/editorial.html

    I really do wish that someone from the SL govt would send me that big fat cheque you keep mentioning. I could buy a really big Elite Cubicle and hire more servants with the cash.

  88. Mango
    Thanks for a hilarious post.
    However, I think you are not interested in intellectual exchange of ideas with me. Tut tut
    P.S. I’ll reply in soon

  89. In response to Mawatha Silva’s comment of Oct. 11, 9:09 A.M., I would respond as follows:
    1. I don’t know how many children are currently in the camps; the last AI public statement referred to “at least 50,000″ as an estimate.
    2. As for how you could help them or what organization you could complain to, you might try the aid agencies that currently have access to the camps and see if they have anything to suggest. Sorry I don’t have anything more specific.

    In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 10, 2:10 A.M., I would respond that AI will not “relax” while human rights violations are occurring. The Sri Lankan government isn’t entitled to hold a civilian population in indefinite detention because there might be LTTE cadre among them. If accepted, that argument would equally allow the government to detain the entire Tamil population of Colombo indefinitely until a “screening process” established that none of them were actually hidden Tiger agents. Holding the IDPs in the camps as they are doing is not exactly promoting reconciliation among the communities; surely that’s a better way to avoid another war than treating the IDPs as though they’re all potential enemies.

    In response to those posting links to articles or simply repeating the text of certain articles or stories, please refrain from doing so. My Oct. 9 comment explains the purpose of this site. Please don’t abuse the commenting priviliage.

  90. Mawatham,

    It would’ve been nice if you could’ve at least tried to constructively discuss some of the questions I raised earlier at 8.10pm about what next for Eelam supporters in and outside SL. Your ethnicity is not the point. If you supported the Eelam project, are you going to engage with the SL govt or continue to oppose it from afar in conjunction with the INGO circus?

    Your claim not to be an LTTE supporter is hard to believe. I’d be more convinced if that was your real position, if you’d share with us, your thoughts on the LTTE hostage-taking of the entire Vanni population and subsequent executions of civilians trying to escape the NFZ. I don’t think I’ll get an answer to that or to my previous questions about LTTE ethnic cleansing which resulted in the now-forgotten ‘other’ IDPs.

    I feel your pain …. it must be simply too difficult, no?

  91. Dear Jim MD,

    With reference to your comment on October 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm,

    The Sri Lankan government isn’t entitled to hold a civilian population in indefinite detention because there might be LTTE cadre among them.

    I think even the GOSL will accept if you could provide them with another solution (to ensure that the LTTE guys would not escape) than say that they do not have a right. See – What right would America have to detain the ones in Guantanamo Bay & What right would a cop will have to detain a murderer in lock up?? – If it is necessary to detain a few for the well-being of a majority, ain't it done ? We suffered for 30 years for this moment to come – I don't think anyone could or should do anything to disturb the current peace that all Sri Lankans enjoy now – immaterial of Ethnicity.

    If accepted, that argument would equally allow the government to detain the entire Tamil population of Colombo indefinitely until a “screening process” established that none of them were actually hidden Tiger agents.

    Well, they are not planting bombs anywhere ha ? Why should you disturb their peace ?

    Actually the Colombo crowd were screened and the culprits were taken to custody who already have given out the details of others who were involved and also the strategies behind the whole LTTE movement. There were also Singhalees who were filtered out – who supported the LTTE for cash etc. – see there is no racial issue here, but a Terrorist issue.. The people who were not involved are known and are living in very good harmony with all others.

    Holding the IDPs in the camps as they are doing is not exactly promoting reconciliation among the communities;

    100% true – I agree with you.

    Also the other truth is that it will anyway not happen over night.. It will take a longer time than most of us would like it to be… Will may be take another 50 years to get people in to the right mind sets – but it will happen.. It also needs the support of all Sri Lankans + People like you – who would support the cause of building the communal harmony. You cannot do it with Terrorist minds around – You need to eliminate these negative mindsets (rehabilitation – not killing) and then build the harmony.

    surely that’s a better way to avoid another war than treating the IDPs as though they’re all potential enemies.

    The GOSL would love to hear this "Better Way" of doing things than just pressurizing them to release the IDP's. Why not suggest ??

    I also hope that once they are released, you would not start another movement saying that the areas were not cleared right and there are people who are loosing their Limbs.

  92. Mahapare Silva !!

    (in response to post on October 12th, 2009 at 3:26 pm)

    I am a moderate Sri Lankan – do you wish to start a conversation with me or do you need a Sinhalese ???

    Also mind you, I don't quite like it when you say "You cannot allow another race to live in peace" – it makes me angry – any you know why ?? Because, you are lying !!!! You are trying to misdirect most of the good people who would read these articles…

    There is "NO" fight between any of the races, ethnic groups or religious groups in Sri Lanka… There never was either… Few communal riots would have occurred as in many countries which are multicultural – but never an organized movement to wipe out another race… ""SO DO NOT LIE""

    As we all know very well, there are people from all communities living in all kinds of conditions in Sri Lanka (from filthy rich to dead poor) and none of it is based on Ethnicity or religion – So Don't LIE !!

    You also claim not to be an LTTE supporter, but past links from the Tamil.net – which was the official LTTE web site ?? I mean – common !! I don't have STUPID written on my forehead.

    What we – the peace loving public would like to see you doing is to give constructive solutions than saying unlock – look beyond the camps – I have asked this question may a times but never got a answer or an attempted answer – What if the LTTE guys escaping the camps start planting bombs again ?? Who will talk on behalf of the 20 million lives you put at risk and what would be the action plan then ??

    Answer me and I will join you to march to the Presidential Secretariat and Shout "Unlock the Camps" !!

  93. Dear Jim MD,

    With reference to your comment on October 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm,

    The Sri Lankan government isn’t entitled to hold a civilian population in indefinite detention because there might be LTTE cadre among them.

    I think even the GOSL will accept if you could provide them with another solution (to ensure that the LTTE guys would not escape) than say that they do not have a right. See – What right would America have to detain the ones in Guantanamo Bay & What right would a cop will have to detain a murderer in lock up?? – If it is necessary to detain a few for the well-being of a majority, ain’t it done ? We suffered for 30 years for this moment to come – I don’t think anyone could or should do anything to disturb the current peace that all Sri Lankans enjoy now – immaterial of Ethnicity.

    If accepted, that argument would equally allow the government to detain the entire Tamil population of Colombo indefinitely until a “screening process” established that none of them were actually hidden Tiger agents.

    Well, they are not planting bombs anywhere ha ? Why should you disturb their peace ?

    Actually the Colombo crowd were screened and the culprits were taken to custody who already have given out the details of others who were involved and also the strategies behind the whole LTTE movement. There were also Singhalees who were filtered out – who supported the LTTE for cash etc. – see there is no racial issue here, but a Terrorist issue.. The people who were not involved are known and are living in very good harmony with all others.

    Holding the IDPs in the camps as they are doing is not exactly promoting reconciliation among the communities;

    100% true – I agree with you.

    Also the other truth is that it will anyway not happen over night.. It will take a longer time than most of us would like it to be… Will may be take another 50 years to get people in to the right mind sets – but it will happen.. It also needs the support of all Sri Lankans + People like you – who would support the cause of building the communal harmony. You cannot do it with Terrorist minds around – You need to eliminate these negative mindsets (rehabilitation – not killing) and then build the harmony.

    surely that’s a better way to avoid another war than treating the IDPs as though they’re all potential enemies.

    The GOSL would love to hear this “Better Way” of doing things than just pressurizing them to release the IDP’s. Why not suggest ??

    I also hope that once they are released, you would not start another movement saying that the areas were not cleared right and there are people who are loosing their Limbs.

  94. Mahapare Silva !!

    (in response to post on October 12th, 2009 at 3:26 pm)

    I am a moderate Sri Lankan – do you wish to start a conversation with me or do you need a Sinhalese ???

    Also mind you, I don’t quite like it when you say “You cannot allow another race to live in peace” – it makes me angry – any you know why ?? Because, you are lying !!!! You are trying to misdirect most of the good people who would read these articles…

    There is “NO” fight between any of the races, ethnic groups or religious groups in Sri Lanka… There never was either… Few communal riots would have occurred as in many countries which are multicultural – but never an organized movement to wipe out another race… “”SO DO NOT LIE””

    As we all know very well, there are people from all communities living in all kinds of conditions in Sri Lanka (from filthy rich to dead poor) and none of it is based on Ethnicity or religion – So Don’t LIE !!

    You also claim not to be an LTTE supporter, but past links from the Tamil.net – which was the official LTTE web site ?? I mean – common !! I don’t have STUPID written on my forehead.

    What we – the peace loving public would like to see you doing is to give constructive solutions than saying unlock – look beyond the camps – I have asked this question may a times but never got a answer or an attempted answer – What if the LTTE guys escaping the camps start planting bombs again ?? Who will talk on behalf of the 20 million lives you put at risk and what would be the action plan then ??

    Answer me and I will join you to march to the Presidential Secretariat and Shout “Unlock the Camps” !!

  95. In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 13, 3:14 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. In response to the last paragraph in the comment: asking that the IDPs be allowed to leave the camps is not saying that they should be returned to unsafe areas. AI has never called for that. Certainly, no one should be returned to their villages if the areas are still mined. I think we can all agree on that point. But many of the IDPs may have other places to go, outside the camps, which are safe. It should be their choice. I'm also not saying that the IDPs should be forced out of the camps if they choose to stay there.
    2. Any human rights violator could excuse his conduct by saying it's the only way to prevent a future crime, and could demand that anyone objecting first provide a "better alternative" that would definitely work. To accept that argument would be in effect saying that people's rights are contingent on the government's decisions on how to prevent crime. The Sri Lankan government has said, the war is over and Sri Lankan law applies throughout the country. So under what law are the IDPs being detained? To my knowledge, the Sri Lankan government has not provided, in the fundamental rights cases challenging the IDPs' detention in the camps, any basis under Sri Lankan law for them being held. The IDPs have a right to freedom of movement; if the government has reason to suspect one or more of them of being associated with the LTTE, the government should prove its case in a court. Only then, and for those particular IDPs, would a restraint on freedom of movement be justified.

  96. In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 13, 3:14 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. In response to the last paragraph in the comment: asking that the IDPs be allowed to leave the camps is not saying that they should be returned to unsafe areas. AI has never called for that. Certainly, no one should be returned to their villages if the areas are still mined. I think we can all agree on that point. But many of the IDPs may have other places to go, outside the camps, which are safe. It should be their choice. I’m also not saying that the IDPs should be forced out of the camps if they choose to stay there.
    2. Any human rights violator could excuse his conduct by saying it’s the only way to prevent a future crime, and could demand that anyone objecting first provide a “better alternative” that would definitely work. To accept that argument would be in effect saying that people’s rights are contingent on the government’s decisions on how to prevent crime. The Sri Lankan government has said, the war is over and Sri Lankan law applies throughout the country. So under what law are the IDPs being detained? To my knowledge, the Sri Lankan government has not provided, in the fundamental rights cases challenging the IDPs’ detention in the camps, any basis under Sri Lankan law for them being held. The IDPs have a right to freedom of movement; if the government has reason to suspect one or more of them of being associated with the LTTE, the government should prove its case in a court. Only then, and for those particular IDPs, would a restraint on freedom of movement be justified.

  97. Dear Jim MD,

    I think me answering the second point would suffice to justify point one !

    In Law, there is something called the spirit of the Law… There are occasions where a Police officer would warn and send you off for speeding than write a Ticket – OK this would probably be one of the lowest points of Spirit of Law where as detaining people would be a major crime… But still it is practices because we are human, we can think and acting according to situations is better than sticking to something that was written on paper. This is true on any instance.

    Jim et. al., at any instance, the only aspect to consider would be the practicality of doing things. We have see so many Governments, Organizations, Concepts etc. fail because some person, somewhere down the line forgets the "Practicality" of situations.

    If we get to know a person who has an intention of setting off a Powerful Bomb, but cannot prove it beyond doubt, and know that he is going to blast it in our own backyard, will we still let him go ?? I mean, isn't it digging your own grave – one might call me stupid if I do that ha ??

    This is why I always urge you to look beyond the picture you see now – By all means watch out and ensure that the GOSL do not over do it, but also try and understand the requirement and safety of 20 million others….

  98. Dear Jim MD,

    I think me answering the second point would suffice to justify point one !

    In Law, there is something called the spirit of the Law… There are occasions where a Police officer would warn and send you off for speeding than write a Ticket – OK this would probably be one of the lowest points of Spirit of Law where as detaining people would be a major crime… But still it is practices because we are human, we can think and acting according to situations is better than sticking to something that was written on paper. This is true on any instance.

    Jim et. al., at any instance, the only aspect to consider would be the practicality of doing things. We have see so many Governments, Organizations, Concepts etc. fail because some person, somewhere down the line forgets the “Practicality” of situations.

    If we get to know a person who has an intention of setting off a Powerful Bomb, but cannot prove it beyond doubt, and know that he is going to blast it in our own backyard, will we still let him go ?? I mean, isn’t it digging your own grave – one might call me stupid if I do that ha ??

    This is why I always urge you to look beyond the picture you see now – By all means watch out and ensure that the GOSL do not over do it, but also try and understand the requirement and safety of 20 million others….

  99. In response to "Release IDP's" comment of Oct. 13, 11:58 P.M., I'd ask that people commenting here please refrain from simply posting links to articles. This forum is not to be used as a bulletin board but as a place for discussion of the issues raised in the original post.

    In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 13, 10:35 P.M., I might say that it comes down to an issue of trust. The comment poses the scenario where you know that a bombing is about to occur, so you must be allowed to prevent it. I do think governments have the right, and the obligation, to protect their populations and to prevent crime. In many, if not all, jurisdictions, attempted crime is itself an offense, as is conspiracy to commit a crime. But at the same time, it's important not to trust people with power and guns too much; power can easily be abused. So the law does not, and should not, allow a government to simply lock someone up on the basis of some government official's opinion that that person is dangerous and is about to commit a crime. There should be adequate evidence shown to an independent court, which can make its own assessment and release the person if the evidence is insufficient. The burden should be on the government to justify detaining someone, not on the person whose liberty is being restricted to prove his innocence.

    In its Unlock the Camps campaign, AI is not saying that those connected to the LTTE should simply be released. We've never said that. We have said that if the government wants to detain people, it has the burden of justifying that those particular people are a threat, and it can't do that simply on the basis of their ethnicity and where they came from.

  100. To Jim Pappa:

    You know that whether SL is at war or peace is a matter of supreme indifference to AI. Remember, they don't take sides!

    Even more damningly, they didn't want the LTTE crushed, but declined to say how the suffering of the entire SL population, at the hands of the LTTE should be ended. In fact, AI don't want any terror organisation crushed, for any reason, ever !

    This makes all the various campaigns and lectures from AI and Western bloc HR overlords, about what should or should not be happening in the post-war scenario a little hard to stomach.

    But, on the other hand, the SL govt has not been sufficiently transparent in allowing the process to be seen — not by the int'l HR circus, but by the local media and relief groups.

    A small start was made recently by allowing a group of vehemently anti-SL Tamil Nadu MPs to visit the IDP camps. To everyone's surprise (except the LTTE diaspora & their supporters), these TN MPs didn't find any evidence of 'genocide'. In due course, we will awake to cries of the LTTE diaspora discovering another noun or verb to which 'genocide' can be affixed.

    From a legal viewpoint, if the IDPs are detained beyond a 'reasonable' period, its only a matter of time before someone files a fundamental rights petition with the SL Supreme Court. This body has been very critical of various govts and despite the wars and political degradation in SL.

  101. In response to “Release IDP’s” comment of Oct. 13, 11:58 P.M., I’d ask that people commenting here please refrain from simply posting links to articles. This forum is not to be used as a bulletin board but as a place for discussion of the issues raised in the original post.

    In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 13, 10:35 P.M., I might say that it comes down to an issue of trust. The comment poses the scenario where you know that a bombing is about to occur, so you must be allowed to prevent it. I do think governments have the right, and the obligation, to protect their populations and to prevent crime. In many, if not all, jurisdictions, attempted crime is itself an offense, as is conspiracy to commit a crime. But at the same time, it’s important not to trust people with power and guns too much; power can easily be abused. So the law does not, and should not, allow a government to simply lock someone up on the basis of some government official’s opinion that that person is dangerous and is about to commit a crime. There should be adequate evidence shown to an independent court, which can make its own assessment and release the person if the evidence is insufficient. The burden should be on the government to justify detaining someone, not on the person whose liberty is being restricted to prove his innocence.

    In its Unlock the Camps campaign, AI is not saying that those connected to the LTTE should simply be released. We’ve never said that. We have said that if the government wants to detain people, it has the burden of justifying that those particular people are a threat, and it can’t do that simply on the basis of their ethnicity and where they came from.

  102. To Jim Pappa:

    You know that whether SL is at war or peace is a matter of supreme indifference to AI. Remember, they don’t take sides!

    Even more damningly, they didn’t want the LTTE crushed, but declined to say how the suffering of the entire SL population, at the hands of the LTTE should be ended. In fact, AI don’t want any terror organisation crushed, for any reason, ever !

    This makes all the various campaigns and lectures from AI and Western bloc HR overlords, about what should or should not be happening in the post-war scenario a little hard to stomach.

    But, on the other hand, the SL govt has not been sufficiently transparent in allowing the process to be seen — not by the int’l HR circus, but by the local media and relief groups.

    A small start was made recently by allowing a group of vehemently anti-SL Tamil Nadu MPs to visit the IDP camps. To everyone’s surprise (except the LTTE diaspora & their supporters), these TN MPs didn’t find any evidence of ‘genocide’. In due course, we will awake to cries of the LTTE diaspora discovering another noun or verb to which ‘genocide’ can be affixed.

    From a legal viewpoint, if the IDPs are detained beyond a ‘reasonable’ period, its only a matter of time before someone files a fundamental rights petition with the SL Supreme Court. This body has been very critical of various govts and despite the wars and political degradation in SL.

  103. Jim MD,

    I quite agree with you when you say that The government should not detain the people for long – I guess I agree with Mango's previous post in this regard too…

    What I say is that if it is necessary to do so for a limited period of time to ensure the safety of the majority, it should be done. No one can expect a 30 year matter to settle within a few months. it will have to be given time.. As I always said, WATCH OUT, but also look at the bigger picture..

    I also agree with you on making one party, who has the guns, too powerful.. I my self is not a big fan of this government (specially, majority of the idiotic ministers), but, on this particular matter of war I do support them. The war is over and now it is time to ensure that it will not repeat.. This would take a certain period of time and we need to be a bit patient before jumping the gun – But, no two words – be on alert.

    Mango – I personally feel that the Biggest mistake the GOSL did after the war is exactly what you have mentioned – not allowing the Sri Lankan Politicians and Media to interact with the IDP's…. I don't agree with NGO's going to the area as they were known to support the LTTE big time..

  104. Jim MD,

    I quite agree with you when you say that The government should not detain the people for long – I guess I agree with Mango’s previous post in this regard too…

    What I say is that if it is necessary to do so for a limited period of time to ensure the safety of the majority, it should be done. No one can expect a 30 year matter to settle within a few months. it will have to be given time.. As I always said, WATCH OUT, but also look at the bigger picture..

    I also agree with you on making one party, who has the guns, too powerful.. I my self is not a big fan of this government (specially, majority of the idiotic ministers), but, on this particular matter of war I do support them. The war is over and now it is time to ensure that it will not repeat.. This would take a certain period of time and we need to be a bit patient before jumping the gun – But, no two words – be on alert.

    Mango – I personally feel that the Biggest mistake the GOSL did after the war is exactly what you have mentioned – not allowing the Sri Lankan Politicians and Media to interact with the IDP’s…. I don’t agree with NGO’s going to the area as they were known to support the LTTE big time..

  105. In response to Mango's comment of Oct. 14, 7:23 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment makes certain assertions about AI's positions. I believe the comment may be based on an earlier comment I made in another discussion where I declined to agree with Mango's assumption that the only way to prevent human rights abuses is by killing a group of people who have been committing such abuses. If I'm correct, Mango has taken my earlier comment and decided that that means that AI "didn't want the LTTE crushed" and that AI doesn't "want any terror organization crushed, for any reason, ever." It may be that Mango has other evidence, besides my earlier comment, to support his assertions about AI's positions. If so, I'd ask that he provide such evidence to support his assertions.
    2. If my assumption is correct that his assertions are based only on my prior comment, I'd like to try to make clear some of AI's positions for his benefit and others who may be interested:
    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.
    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the "laws of war," in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.
    d. AI has said that governments, including the Sri Lankan government, have the right, and indeed the obligation, to protect their civilian populations from attack. However, in doing so, governments are still obligated to adhere to their obligations under human rights law, including the obligation to observe the rights of those suspected of committing or planning to commit attacks against the civilian populations.

    So, in the Sri Lankan context, AI did not oppose or support the war between the government and the LTTE. It is not accurate to say that AI was against the government defeating the LTTE, as Mango's comment appears to assert. It is also not accurate to say that AI is against any government defeating any opposition group.

    A final response to the comment: the comment refers to the possibility of a fundamental rights petition being filed on behalf of the IDPs with the Sri Lankan Supreme Court. I believe that two such cases have already been filed, one by the Centre for Policy Alternatives. I do not know the current status of the cases; those interested might check the CPA website (www.cpalanka.org).

    In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 14, 10:55 P.M., I'd note that the comment asks for the Sri Lankan government to be given time. I'd ask whether five months is not already sufficient time to have conducted the screening of the IDPs.

  106. In response to Mango's comment of Oct. 14, 7:23 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment makes certain assertions about AI's positions. I believe the comment may be based on an earlier comment I made in another discussion where I declined to agree with Mango's assumption that the only way to prevent human rights abuses is by killing a group of people who have been committing such abuses. If I'm correct, Mango has taken my earlier comment and decided that that means that AI "didn't want the LTTE crushed" and that AI doesn't "want any terror organization crushed, for any reason, ever." It may be that Mango has other evidence, besides my earlier comment, to support his assertions about AI's positions. If so, I'd ask that he provide such evidence to support his assertions.
    2. If my assumption is correct that his assertions are based only on my prior comment, I'd like to try to make clear some of AI's positions for his benefit and others who may be interested:
    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.
    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the "laws of war," in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.
    d. AI has said that governments, including the Sri Lankan government, have the right, and indeed the obligation, to protect their civilian populations from attack. However, in doing so, governments are still obligated to adhere to their obligations under human rights law, including the obligation to observe the rights of those suspected of committing or planning to commit attacks against the civilian populations.

    So, in the Sri Lankan context, AI did not oppose or support the war between the government and the LTTE. It is not accurate to say that AI was against the government defeating the LTTE, as Mango's comment appears to assert. It is also not accurate to say that AI is against any government defeating any opposition group.

    A final response to the comment: the comment refers to the possibility of a fundamental rights petition being filed on behalf of the IDPs with the Sri Lankan Supreme Court. I believe that two such cases have already been filed, one by the Centre for Policy Alternatives. I do not know the current status of the cases; those interested might check the CPA website (www.cpalanka.org).

    In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 14, 10:55 P.M., I'd note that the comment asks for the Sri Lankan government to be given time. I'd ask whether five months is not already sufficient time to have conducted the screening of the IDPs.

  107. In response to Mango's comment of Oct. 14, 7:23 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment makes certain assertions about AI's positions. I believe the comment may be based on an earlier comment I made in another discussion where I declined to agree with Mango's assumption that the only way to prevent human rights abuses is by killing a group of people who have been committing such abuses. If I'm correct, Mango has taken my earlier comment and decided that that means that AI "didn't want the LTTE crushed" and that AI doesn't "want any terror organization crushed, for any reason, ever." It may be that Mango has other evidence, besides my earlier comment, to support his assertions about AI's positions. If so, I'd ask that he provide such evidence to support his assertions.
    2. If my assumption is correct that his assertions are based only on my prior comment, I'd like to try to make clear some of AI's positions for his benefit and others who may be interested:
    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.
    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the "laws of war," in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.
    d. AI has said that governments, including the Sri Lankan government, have the right, and indeed the obligation, to protect their civilian populations from attack. However, in doing so, governments are still obligated to adhere to their obligations under human rights law, including the obligation to observe the rights of those suspected of committing or planning to commit attacks against the civilian populations.

    So, in the Sri Lankan context, AI did not oppose or support the war between the government and the LTTE. It is not accurate to say that AI was against the government defeating the LTTE, as Mango's comment appears to assert. It is also not accurate to say that AI is against any government defeating any opposition group.

    A final response to the comment: the comment refers to the possibility of a fundamental rights petition being filed on behalf of the IDPs with the Sri Lankan Supreme Court. I believe that two such cases have already been filed, one by the Centre for Policy Alternatives. I do not know the current status of the cases; those interested might check the CPA website (www.cpalanka.org).

    In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 14, 10:55 P.M., I'd note that the comment asks for the Sri Lankan government to be given time. I'd ask whether five months is not already sufficient time to have conducted the screening of the IDPs.

  108. In response to Mango’s comment of Oct. 14, 7:23 A.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment makes certain assertions about AI’s positions. I believe the comment may be based on an earlier comment I made in another discussion where I declined to agree with Mango’s assumption that the only way to prevent human rights abuses is by killing a group of people who have been committing such abuses. If I’m correct, Mango has taken my earlier comment and decided that that means that AI “didn’t want the LTTE crushed” and that AI doesn’t “want any terror organization crushed, for any reason, ever.” It may be that Mango has other evidence, besides my earlier comment, to support his assertions about AI’s positions. If so, I’d ask that he provide such evidence to support his assertions.
    2. If my assumption is correct that his assertions are based only on my prior comment, I’d like to try to make clear some of AI’s positions for his benefit and others who may be interested:
    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.
    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the “laws of war,” in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.
    d. AI has said that governments, including the Sri Lankan government, have the right, and indeed the obligation, to protect their civilian populations from attack. However, in doing so, governments are still obligated to adhere to their obligations under human rights law, including the obligation to observe the rights of those suspected of committing or planning to commit attacks against the civilian populations.

    So, in the Sri Lankan context, AI did not oppose or support the war between the government and the LTTE. It is not accurate to say that AI was against the government defeating the LTTE, as Mango’s comment appears to assert. It is also not accurate to say that AI is against any government defeating any opposition group.

    A final response to the comment: the comment refers to the possibility of a fundamental rights petition being filed on behalf of the IDPs with the Sri Lankan Supreme Court. I believe that two such cases have already been filed, one by the Centre for Policy Alternatives. I do not know the current status of the cases; those interested might check the CPA website (www.cpalanka.org).

    In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 14, 10:55 P.M., I’d note that the comment asks for the Sri Lankan government to be given time. I’d ask whether five months is not already sufficient time to have conducted the screening of the IDPs.

  109. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ——————————–

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  110. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ———————————

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  111. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ——————————–

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  112. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ——————————–

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  113. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ———————————

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  114. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ———————————

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I've never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months 'crushed' the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough 'rebels' to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren't allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was 'crushed' by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by 'conflict resolution paradigms', 'equality workshops' and NGO activists holding 'sustainable peace-building' seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    "In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot's Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary." http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I'd be interested to know how a better outcome could've been been obtained through non-violent, 'non-crushing' of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI's position re., 'not taking sides'. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI's longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I've said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should've been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I've already given instances of where the SL govt was 'allowed' under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its' own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE's strategy is futile.

    3. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. "Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants." Oppenheim's 'International Law'

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the 'No Fire Zone'. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa's given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke's words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently 'advising' and castigating SL.

    "External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors."
    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  115. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ——————————–

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I’ve never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months ‘crushed’ the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough ‘rebels’ to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren’t allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was ‘crushed’ by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by ‘conflict resolution paradigms’, ‘equality workshops’ and NGO activists holding ‘sustainable peace-building’ seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    “In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot’s Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary.” http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I’d be interested to know how a better outcome could’ve been been obtained through non-violent, ‘non-crushing’ of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI’s position re., ‘not taking sides’. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI’s longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I’ve said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should’ve been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I’ve already given instances of where the SL govt was ‘allowed’ under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its’ own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE’s strategy is futile.

    3. “The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. “Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants.” Oppenheim’s ‘International Law’

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the ‘No Fire Zone’. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa’s given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke’s words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently ‘advising’ and castigating SL.

    External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors.”

    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  116. Jim,
    My reply appears to have vanished into the ether… I hope its not being censored, as it specifically deals with your points. Anyway, here it is again..

    — – - – - – - —— – - – - – - – - – - – - ——- – - orignal reply ———————————

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for that. In fact in my original comment I gave two clear, irrefutable instances (Cambodia & Sierra Leone) where it was shown that sometimes,killing the right people improves HR. I’ve never said that this is always the case.

    My points can be repeated thus:

    Example 1. In Sierra Leone in 2000, the British Army within a few months ‘crushed’ the arm-chopping rebels and brought peace to that benighted country. i.e. they killed enough ‘rebels’ to destroy the movement. A peace which the UN forces had been unable to achieve for over a decade, because they weren’t allowed to kill the right people. HR abuses in Sierra Leone have declined to virtually nothing from a level of unimaginable barbarity.

    Example 2. In 1979 the truly genocidal Khmer Rouge regime (at the time supported by the US & UK for geopolitical reasons), was ‘crushed’ by the armed might of the North Vietnamese Army? The darkest and bloodiest period in modern Cambodian history was ended by the hard military power of the NVA and not by ‘conflict resolution paradigms’, ‘equality workshops’ and NGO activists holding ‘sustainable peace-building’ seminars.

    I particularly like this description of what happened:
    “In spite of a preemptive attack by Cambodia, Vietnamese forces, using six coordinated corps-sized combined arms mechanized columns, along with a division-sized amphibious assault along the coast and air strikes conducted by captured American-made attack aircraft, quickly crushed the fanatical Cambodian resistance in a swift, blitzkrieg-like campaign. Within three weeks the Vietnamese controlled all major roads, harbors, airfields, and population centers in Cambodia, forcing the remainder of Pol Pot’s Cambodian armed forces to flee to the Thai border for sanctuary.” http://tinyurl.com/yznq7zb

    Even better, not a single HR activist was involved in the crushing of the Khmer Rouge. They were too busy not taking sides.

    Regardless of your personal opinion, the above cases are factually unarguable. If you disagree with my examples, I’d be interested to know how a better outcome could’ve been been obtained through non-violent, ‘non-crushing’ of rebels and/or genocidal movements.

    I understand AI’s position re., ‘not taking sides’. Fine. If AI is unable or unwilling to take sides between a violent, racist, fascistic, terrorist organisation (the LTTE) and a flawed yet legitimate govt (SL govt), further comment on my part is probably superfluous, other than to say this:

    If AI exists to maximise HR, in certain instances, only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organisation will result in AI’s longed-for environment of peace and overall improvement in HR. As I’ve said many times, in SL, the major cause of 30+ years of HR abuses was the Eelam Wars, kept alive through the efforts of the LTTE. End of LTTE, end of Eelam and a gradual return to sanity, peace and maximum HR for all. Surely, AI must be delighted with this outcome, no?

    Re., the rules of war, I agree. The war should’ve been fought as best as possible adhering to the commonly accepted rules of war, to which the LTTE is certainly NOT a contracting party, given that it is a transnational, illegal terrorist entity. :)

    I’ve already given instances of where the SL govt was ‘allowed’ under the rules of war, to conduct military operations, knowing that innocent civilian lives would be lost to due its’ own operations. To summarise:

    Key principles when facing civilian casualties during a military assault/conflict.
    1. A military target remains a legitimate military target, even if it is located in a civilian area. The LTTE hid their mortars and heavy artillery amongst civilians to prevent the SL govt from legitimately destroying these units.

    2. The use of civilians as shields to try to prevent attacks on military targets is prohibited. Further comment on this aspect of the LTTE’s strategy is futile.

    3. “The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    4. The armed forces are not liable where injury to civilians results from unavoidable collateral damage, provided it is proportionate to the military gain expected of the attack.

    5. “Civilians do not enjoy absolute immunity. Their presence will not render military objects immune from attack for the mere reason that it is impossible to bombard them without causing injury to the non-combatants.” Oppenheim’s ‘International Law’

    Fact 1: The LTTE used the Wanni civilians as a shield to prevent attacks on their forces by SL govt forces. Yes or No? Yes.

    Fact 2: The LTTE intermingled their fighting positions amongst the civilians in the ‘No Fire Zone’. Yes or No? Yes..

    All of the above conditions existed during the last phase of combat. And the SL govt did what they could to minimise civilians casualties during the final assault, but they were acting entirely within legal limits noted above.

    Jim, do you agree with the above (1-5) and if not why not?

    If we disagree, it is on what is to be done for the IDPs and how quickly it should be done. Jim Pappa’s given an excellent precis of the reasons (security) why this is thought to be necessary. Unfortunately AI appears to be unable to engage with the SL govt and instead prefers to point fingers from the sidelines.

    Dayan Jayatilleke’s words should be read and re-read with care by the INGO circus, currently ‘advising’ and castigating SL.

    External pressure, especially extra-regional pressure (involving or based in ex-colonial states) hardly ever causes the widening of political space in a Third World country. In most Asian contexts it generates a backlash and de-legitimizes the cause it espouses, discrediting perhaps unfairly, the minorities and minority politicians as allies of hostile external forces.

    Even where the context is not one of ethnic polarization, patronage from adversarial external sources only de-legitimizes local actors.”

    http://transcurrents.com/tc/2009/05/post_362.html

  117. In response to Mango's comment of Oct. 15, 5:35 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment appears to discuss two separate arguments.
    2. The first argument concerns whether, in certain circumstances, the only way to prevent future human rights abuses is by killing those committing such abuses. I think "only way" is an accurate characterization, given that in the ninth paragraph of the comment, there is the language "only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organization…"
    3. The second argument concerns whether the Sri Lankan security forces violated international humanitarian law during the closing stages of the war.
    4. Although both arguments may be somewhat off topic, I think it would be unfair of me to invoke that rule here since my earlier comment may have opened the door to both of these arguments. Of course, if the editors disagree with me, they're free to tell all of us to have these discussions elsewhere.
    5. To deal with the first argument, the comment appears to make this argument by first citing two other countries and asserts that it's "unarguable" that the first argument applies in those two cases (i.e., that the only way of preventing future human rights abuses is by killing those committing such abuses). Based on that conclusion, the first argument then appears to be (since the comment doesn't say this explicitly) that Sri Lanka is like those other two countries, so the first argument applies in the Sri Lankan case as well.
    6. It is a little unclear, however, whether the first argument is based only on the two countries cited or whether it is deemed to apply to all countries, given the language "rebels and/or genocidal movements" in the sixth paragraph, which doesn't appear to be limited to the two countries cited.
    7. The comment asked, in effect, whether I agreed with the examples of the two countries cited. I decline to engage in a discussion about other countries. Mango may feel knowledgeable enough about Sierra Leone and Cambodia to use them as examples for purposes of his first argument. I don't share his confidence in either his expertise (or my own) on those two countries. One may assert that a conclusion is "unarguable" – that doesn't mean that it is.
    8. I believe that the first argument (although it's a little unclear) then asserts that Sri Lanka in effect is like the two countries cited and that the "only way" to prevent future human rights abuses is by killing those committing the abuses. It does seem unclear, particularly because in the eighth paragraph of the comment, the argument appears to shift. In that paragraph, it's asserted that the main cause of human rights abuses was the war which, it is argued, was "kept alive" by the LTTE. So, it doesn't appear to matter whether Sri Lanka is like another country or not (or at least the asserted parallels aren't further discussed).
    9. If the eighth paragraph of the comment is asking whether I agree with the hypothesis about causality of human rights abuses in Sri Lanka, I decline to do so. My focus is on campaigning against human rights violations currently being committed in Sri Lanka, not on debates about whether the Sri Lankan government or the LTTE was more responsible for the continuation of the conflict over the decades.
    10. Before leaving the first argument, I would just make the observation that the first argument would appear to support the concept called "the responsibility to protect" – i.e., in certain circumstances, the "only way" to protect civilian populations from certain grave abuses would mean that the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country's government.
    11. The second argument makes certain assertions about international humanitarian law, also commonly known as the "laws of war."
    12. I would note that the ninth paragraph of the comment appears to say that the LTTE was not bound by the laws of war. That seems inconsistent with the rest of the second argument and, to my knowledge, is also inconsistent with Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. It may also be relevant that the LTTE in 1988 declared that it would abide by the Geneva Conventions.
    13. The rest of the second argument appears to cite certain provisions of international humanitarian law and then assumes certain facts as to the last stages of the war. On the basis of those cited provisions and the asserted facts, the second argument asserts a conclusion that in effect the Sri Lanka military did not violate international humanitarian law during the last stages of the fighting.
    14. AI has said that it had received reports during the last stages of the war that indicated that violations of international humanitarian law may have been committed by both sides: by the LTTE in using civilians as human shields and in deliberate attacks against civilians and by the Sri Lankan military in deliberate and indiscriminate attacks against civilians.
    15. To determine whether a military action that causes injury or death to civilians violates international humanitarian law would depend on an investigation into all the relevant circumstances. AI has called for such an investigation. The Sri Lankan government has made it clear that it will undertake no such investigation. AI has accordingly called for an international investigation.
    16. The second argument says, in effect, that the cited provisions of international humanitarian law (points 1 -5) are the only ones that apply to the Sri Lankan context. I have not undertaken the necessary research to determine whether that is correct. Even assuming that they are, the second argument then in effect assumes that the conditions required by the cited provisions were satisfied in order to reach the conclusion that "the SL govt did what it could to minimize civilians [sic] casualties during the final assault," and that therefore the Sri Lankan military did not violate international humanitarian law.
    17. I do not share the confidence, as expressed in the second argument, that the facts about the last stages of the fighting are actually known well enough to draw conclusions about whether international humanitarian law had been violated. I think most people would agree that independent observers were kept away from the war zone. So determining exactly what happened can be difficult. Satellite imagery can provide some evidence, but for greater certainty, more investigation would need to be done.
    18. If we keep up this discussion, I can see that we'll no doubt need to move it to another thread.

  118. Dear Jim MD,

    I quote the following points from your reply…

    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.

    See Jim, You can't have light and dark at the same place, nor you can come to a two way junction and decide which route to take – it is either this or that… In your case, oppose or support or have a clear cut difference in where you oppose and where you support. You can't say this or that being a renowned organization.

    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the “laws of war,” in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.

    As per above b & c, How on earth in the right mind could you ask a Terrorist organization that has proven over and over again that they are not for peace, to abide by HR laws ????

    I think Mango has lengthily described why it is necessary to destroy an armed Terrorist group with examples and how the whole operation was conducted as per laws set forth by the Geneve~ convention.

    As per the question directed at me, Yes, I have given the answer many times before – a 30 year old issue cannot be settled in 5 months – the requirement of IDP camps goes beyond clearing of landmines and filtering the LTTE. We need to show these people who were brainwashed by the LTTE the real world – the 21st Century Sri Lanka – that there are no groups that hate them just because of their Ethnicity and that they are welcome to live with the others etc.. Majority of the IDP's who were with the LTTE till their last moments are from the Mahavira Families – i.e. the families that had some kind of representation and Support to the LTTE – these guys needs to know that they went in a wrong path. They need to know how to interact with others and most important, to know that they are most welcome in all parts of the Island immaterial of their ethnicity…

    Do you think that 5 months is enough for that ??

    Well, anyways, FYI, I will note down 2 points that I head on news today morning..

    1. The Daughter of Tamilnadu Chief Minister Karunanidhi (who opposed the operation against the LTTE big time) has praised the Sri Lankan Government's effort to provide IDP's with very good facilities. She also went on to say that the Sri Lankan Government has not done enough to tell the world the good deeds done to the IDP's and what they heard was what the media had to say which was FALSE..

    How ever, she also went on to say that she wishes to see the IDP's back in their houses soon….

    2. The president promised her that 52,000 IDP's will be released within the next 2 weeks.

    So, there you go – it is happening in due course.

    Jim, Watch the progress, Monitor the progress, But do not pressurize unnecessarily – It is you who will loose credibility.

  119. Jim MD,

    I refer to the comment you made in reply to Mango !

    The comment asked, in effect, whether I agreed with the examples of the two countries cited. I decline to engage in a discussion about other countries. Mango may feel knowledgeable enough about Sierra Leone and Cambodia to use them as examples for purposes of his first argument. I don’t share his confidence in either his expertise (or my own) on those two countries. One may assert that a conclusion is “unarguable” – that doesn’t mean that it is.

    Jim – you need to study these things if you are going to get in to a discussion and start fighting for HR – It is always not what the paper says that is practical – there are occasions you need to look at the Bigger Picture – this is exactly what I am telling you guys to see – the BIGGER PICTURE – The Spirit of the Law than the Letter of Law – Makes a huge difference to a person, community, country, continent and finally the World !!

  120. Hey Jim – me again !!

    refer to the comment "I do not share the confidence, as expressed in the second argument, that the facts about the last stages of the fighting are actually known well enough to draw conclusions about whether international humanitarian law had been violated. I think most people would agree that independent observers were kept away from the war zone. So determining exactly what happened can be difficult. Satellite imagery can provide some evidence, but for greater certainty, more investigation would need to be done.
    18. If we keep up this discussion, I can see that we’ll no doubt need to move it to another thread".

    I don't know about Satellite Evidence, but the UAV evidence clearly showed the LTTE guys firing at civilians.

    Can you blame the government of not allowing any International person to go to the war front after finding out that almost all the new technology and the air crafts were given by them ? We wouldn't know the one's who'd come are enemies or friends.. It is these so called "Independent Groups" that basically made Submarines and even flew the air crafts until the last suicidal mission..

    Let's start another discussion about war if you please to………………

  121. In response to Mango’s comment of Oct. 15, 5:35 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The comment appears to discuss two separate arguments.
    2. The first argument concerns whether, in certain circumstances, the only way to prevent future human rights abuses is by killing those committing such abuses. I think “only way” is an accurate characterization, given that in the ninth paragraph of the comment, there is the language “only the destruction (or crushing) of a terrorist organization…”
    3. The second argument concerns whether the Sri Lankan security forces violated international humanitarian law during the closing stages of the war.
    4. Although both arguments may be somewhat off topic, I think it would be unfair of me to invoke that rule here since my earlier comment may have opened the door to both of these arguments. Of course, if the editors disagree with me, they’re free to tell all of us to have these discussions elsewhere.
    5. To deal with the first argument, the comment appears to make this argument by first citing two other countries and asserts that it’s “unarguable” that the first argument applies in those two cases (i.e., that the only way of preventing future human rights abuses is by killing those committing such abuses). Based on that conclusion, the first argument then appears to be (since the comment doesn’t say this explicitly) that Sri Lanka is like those other two countries, so the first argument applies in the Sri Lankan case as well.
    6. It is a little unclear, however, whether the first argument is based only on the two countries cited or whether it is deemed to apply to all countries, given the language “rebels and/or genocidal movements” in the sixth paragraph, which doesn’t appear to be limited to the two countries cited.
    7. The comment asked, in effect, whether I agreed with the examples of the two countries cited. I decline to engage in a discussion about other countries. Mango may feel knowledgeable enough about Sierra Leone and Cambodia to use them as examples for purposes of his first argument. I don’t share his confidence in either his expertise (or my own) on those two countries. One may assert that a conclusion is “unarguable” – that doesn’t mean that it is.
    8. I believe that the first argument (although it’s a little unclear) then asserts that Sri Lanka in effect is like the two countries cited and that the “only way” to prevent future human rights abuses is by killing those committing the abuses. It does seem unclear, particularly because in the eighth paragraph of the comment, the argument appears to shift. In that paragraph, it’s asserted that the main cause of human rights abuses was the war which, it is argued, was “kept alive” by the LTTE. So, it doesn’t appear to matter whether Sri Lanka is like another country or not (or at least the asserted parallels aren’t further discussed).
    9. If the eighth paragraph of the comment is asking whether I agree with the hypothesis about causality of human rights abuses in Sri Lanka, I decline to do so. My focus is on campaigning against human rights violations currently being committed in Sri Lanka, not on debates about whether the Sri Lankan government or the LTTE was more responsible for the continuation of the conflict over the decades.
    10. Before leaving the first argument, I would just make the observation that the first argument would appear to support the concept called “the responsibility to protect” – i.e., in certain circumstances, the “only way” to protect civilian populations from certain grave abuses would mean that the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country’s government.
    11. The second argument makes certain assertions about international humanitarian law, also commonly known as the “laws of war.”
    12. I would note that the ninth paragraph of the comment appears to say that the LTTE was not bound by the laws of war. That seems inconsistent with the rest of the second argument and, to my knowledge, is also inconsistent with Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. It may also be relevant that the LTTE in 1988 declared that it would abide by the Geneva Conventions.
    13. The rest of the second argument appears to cite certain provisions of international humanitarian law and then assumes certain facts as to the last stages of the war. On the basis of those cited provisions and the asserted facts, the second argument asserts a conclusion that in effect the Sri Lanka military did not violate international humanitarian law during the last stages of the fighting.
    14. AI has said that it had received reports during the last stages of the war that indicated that violations of international humanitarian law may have been committed by both sides: by the LTTE in using civilians as human shields and in deliberate attacks against civilians and by the Sri Lankan military in deliberate and indiscriminate attacks against civilians.
    15. To determine whether a military action that causes injury or death to civilians violates international humanitarian law would depend on an investigation into all the relevant circumstances. AI has called for such an investigation. The Sri Lankan government has made it clear that it will undertake no such investigation. AI has accordingly called for an international investigation.
    16. The second argument says, in effect, that the cited provisions of international humanitarian law (points 1 -5) are the only ones that apply to the Sri Lankan context. I have not undertaken the necessary research to determine whether that is correct. Even assuming that they are, the second argument then in effect assumes that the conditions required by the cited provisions were satisfied in order to reach the conclusion that “the SL govt did what it could to minimize civilians [sic] casualties during the final assault,” and that therefore the Sri Lankan military did not violate international humanitarian law.
    17. I do not share the confidence, as expressed in the second argument, that the facts about the last stages of the fighting are actually known well enough to draw conclusions about whether international humanitarian law had been violated. I think most people would agree that independent observers were kept away from the war zone. So determining exactly what happened can be difficult. Satellite imagery can provide some evidence, but for greater certainty, more investigation would need to be done.
    18. If we keep up this discussion, I can see that we’ll no doubt need to move it to another thread.

  122. Dear Jim MD,

    I quote the following points from your reply…

    a. AI does not oppose war per se or the resort to arms by opposition groups. Nor do we support war or the resort to arms.

    See Jim, You can’t have light and dark at the same place, nor you can come to a two way junction and decide which route to take – it is either this or that… In your case, oppose or support or have a clear cut difference in where you oppose and where you support. You can’t say this or that being a renowned organization.

    b. If parties do engage in warfare, AI asks that both sides observe international humanitarian law, also known as the “laws of war,” in conducting hostilities.
    c. AI consistently calls on all sides in an armed conflict to not engage in human rights abuses.

    As per above b & c, How on earth in the right mind could you ask a Terrorist organization that has proven over and over again that they are not for peace, to abide by HR laws ????

    I think Mango has lengthily described why it is necessary to destroy an armed Terrorist group with examples and how the whole operation was conducted as per laws set forth by the Geneve~ convention.

    As per the question directed at me, Yes, I have given the answer many times before – a 30 year old issue cannot be settled in 5 months – the requirement of IDP camps goes beyond clearing of landmines and filtering the LTTE. We need to show these people who were brainwashed by the LTTE the real world – the 21st Century Sri Lanka – that there are no groups that hate them just because of their Ethnicity and that they are welcome to live with the others etc.. Majority of the IDP’s who were with the LTTE till their last moments are from the Mahavira Families – i.e. the families that had some kind of representation and Support to the LTTE – these guys needs to know that they went in a wrong path. They need to know how to interact with others and most important, to know that they are most welcome in all parts of the Island immaterial of their ethnicity…

    Do you think that 5 months is enough for that ??

    Well, anyways, FYI, I will note down 2 points that I head on news today morning..

    1. The Daughter of Tamilnadu Chief Minister Karunanidhi (who opposed the operation against the LTTE big time) has praised the Sri Lankan Government’s effort to provide IDP’s with very good facilities. She also went on to say that the Sri Lankan Government has not done enough to tell the world the good deeds done to the IDP’s and what they heard was what the media had to say which was FALSE..

    How ever, she also went on to say that she wishes to see the IDP’s back in their houses soon….

    2. The president promised her that 52,000 IDP’s will be released within the next 2 weeks.

    So, there you go – it is happening in due course.

    Jim, Watch the progress, Monitor the progress, But do not pressurize unnecessarily – It is you who will loose credibility.

  123. Jim MD,

    I refer to the comment you made in reply to Mango !

    The comment asked, in effect, whether I agreed with the examples of the two countries cited. I decline to engage in a discussion about other countries. Mango may feel knowledgeable enough about Sierra Leone and Cambodia to use them as examples for purposes of his first argument. I don’t share his confidence in either his expertise (or my own) on those two countries. One may assert that a conclusion is “unarguable” – that doesn’t mean that it is.

    Jim – you need to study these things if you are going to get in to a discussion and start fighting for HR – It is always not what the paper says that is practical – there are occasions you need to look at the Bigger Picture – this is exactly what I am telling you guys to see – the BIGGER PICTURE – The Spirit of the Law than the Letter of Law – Makes a huge difference to a person, community, country, continent and finally the World !!

  124. Hey Jim – me again !!

    refer to the comment “I do not share the confidence, as expressed in the second argument, that the facts about the last stages of the fighting are actually known well enough to draw conclusions about whether international humanitarian law had been violated. I think most people would agree that independent observers were kept away from the war zone. So determining exactly what happened can be difficult. Satellite imagery can provide some evidence, but for greater certainty, more investigation would need to be done.
    18. If we keep up this discussion, I can see that we’ll no doubt need to move it to another thread”.

    I don’t know about Satellite Evidence, but the UAV evidence clearly showed the LTTE guys firing at civilians.

    Can you blame the government of not allowing any International person to go to the war front after finding out that almost all the new technology and the air crafts were given by them ? We wouldn’t know the one’s who’d come are enemies or friends.. It is these so called “Independent Groups” that basically made Submarines and even flew the air crafts until the last suicidal mission..

    Let’s start another discussion about war if you please to………………

  125. I note that Jim Pappa has posted three separate comments above. In response to the second and third comments, I do think we'll need to pick this up in another discussion; we are rather getting away from the issue of the IDPs in the camps. That also goes for most of the first comment.

    There is part of the first comment that does relate to the IDPs in the camps. The argument is made in the comment that (if I understand it correctly) that a "30 year old issue cannot be settled in 5 months" and that the civilians must be involuntarily kept in the camps, not simply because of demining issues in their home villages and the need to screen for LTTE members among the civilians. The comment asserts that all the civilians currently in the camps supported the LTTE and must be kept in the camps until the Sri Lankan government can show them that the IDPs are "most welcome in all parts of the Island immaterial of their ethnicity." It's also suggested that this will take longer than 5 months.

    It may be that this part of the comment is actually referring to the detained LTTE members (or those suspected of being LTTE) who are being held separately from the IDPs.

    Assuming that this part of the comment is intending to refer to the IDPs, I find it hard to understand why the IDPs must be confined to the camps in order to accomplish the stated objective. If the Sri Lankan government wishes to prove to the IDPs that they're welcome throughout the country without regard to their ethnicity, wouldn't it be simpler to prove that to the IDPs by allowing them to leave the camps immediately if they wish and live elsewhere in the country if that's their preference?

  126. Hey Jim MD,

    I agree that we are kind of drifting off from the subject matter and would like if we could start a separate discussion on that – please let me know if you start one as these are burning issues that needs to be addressed, and most importantly addressed the right way..

    Your summing up of what I mentioned in my previously is not exactly right. Yes, in a nut shell, most of the left overs could be suspected to have had links to the LTTE and indeed a part of the Terrorist organization it self. Where as there also definitely are a bunch that are not.

    What I mean to say is that by taking time to elucidate them on the actual scenario than what the LTTE had to say during the brain washing sessions will require time. I am also not leaving out the fact that most areas are uncleared and that they cannot be re-settled in those areas. So this period could be used to de-brain wash them.

    There are layers in any kind of situation – In this case, the Hard Core Terrorists, the medium range who supported the cause and the low end who by virtue were pulled in to it without a choice. The Low end would come to reality sooner than the Hard core terrorists. The treatment to each sector also would vary, but, I am sure that the government would not resolve to killing them.

    Currently they are provided with entertainment and most important a view to the out side world via TV etc.. that they couldn't experience before. By opening their eyes to reality, we could ensure they get out of their Brain Washed attitude..

    The Terrorists held in other camps are indeed different – they are identified as activists and would be rehabilitated. That would take a different coarse of time..

    See Jim, there is nothing to understand regarding the detaining if you understand what I have mentioned above – it needs time – you are playing with people's minds here – not robots to re-boot or re-program and send out there. … It might even need more than 30 more years for the whole thing to settle and for everyone to feel normal again.. but, obviously the IDP's will be released way way before that, hopefully by next June Max (i.e. apart from the LTTE guys in other camps)

    If by chance a single person with a opposing mindset could go free and start a movement again or blast a single bomb that is hidden somewhere – we will again have to start re-thinking of how to save 20 million people than develop the country – which means, 20 million will keep suffering.

  127. I note that Jim Pappa has posted three separate comments above. In response to the second and third comments, I do think we’ll need to pick this up in another discussion; we are rather getting away from the issue of the IDPs in the camps. That also goes for most of the first comment.

    There is part of the first comment that does relate to the IDPs in the camps. The argument is made in the comment that (if I understand it correctly) that a “30 year old issue cannot be settled in 5 months” and that the civilians must be involuntarily kept in the camps, not simply because of demining issues in their home villages and the need to screen for LTTE members among the civilians. The comment asserts that all the civilians currently in the camps supported the LTTE and must be kept in the camps until the Sri Lankan government can show them that the IDPs are “most welcome in all parts of the Island immaterial of their ethnicity.” It’s also suggested that this will take longer than 5 months.

    It may be that this part of the comment is actually referring to the detained LTTE members (or those suspected of being LTTE) who are being held separately from the IDPs.

    Assuming that this part of the comment is intending to refer to the IDPs, I find it hard to understand why the IDPs must be confined to the camps in order to accomplish the stated objective. If the Sri Lankan government wishes to prove to the IDPs that they’re welcome throughout the country without regard to their ethnicity, wouldn’t it be simpler to prove that to the IDPs by allowing them to leave the camps immediately if they wish and live elsewhere in the country if that’s their preference?

  128. Hey Jim MD,

    I agree that we are kind of drifting off from the subject matter and would like if we could start a separate discussion on that – please let me know if you start one as these are burning issues that needs to be addressed, and most importantly addressed the right way..

    Your summing up of what I mentioned in my previously is not exactly right. Yes, in a nut shell, most of the left overs could be suspected to have had links to the LTTE and indeed a part of the Terrorist organization it self. Where as there also definitely are a bunch that are not.

    What I mean to say is that by taking time to elucidate them on the actual scenario than what the LTTE had to say during the brain washing sessions will require time. I am also not leaving out the fact that most areas are uncleared and that they cannot be re-settled in those areas. So this period could be used to de-brain wash them.

    There are layers in any kind of situation – In this case, the Hard Core Terrorists, the medium range who supported the cause and the low end who by virtue were pulled in to it without a choice. The Low end would come to reality sooner than the Hard core terrorists. The treatment to each sector also would vary, but, I am sure that the government would not resolve to killing them.

    Currently they are provided with entertainment and most important a view to the out side world via TV etc.. that they couldn’t experience before. By opening their eyes to reality, we could ensure they get out of their Brain Washed attitude..

    The Terrorists held in other camps are indeed different – they are identified as activists and would be rehabilitated. That would take a different coarse of time..

    See Jim, there is nothing to understand regarding the detaining if you understand what I have mentioned above – it needs time – you are playing with people’s minds here – not robots to re-boot or re-program and send out there. … It might even need more than 30 more years for the whole thing to settle and for everyone to feel normal again.. but, obviously the IDP’s will be released way way before that, hopefully by next June Max (i.e. apart from the LTTE guys in other camps)

    If by chance a single person with a opposing mindset could go free and start a movement again or blast a single bomb that is hidden somewhere – we will again have to start re-thinking of how to save 20 million people than develop the country – which means, 20 million will keep suffering.

  129. In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 16, 7:39 A.M., I would note that the comment assumes that the IDPs in the camps are already guilty of some degree of involvement with the LTTE, even without having investigated any of their cases. That's discrimination – assuming that because someone is Tamil and comes from the former war zone, they're already guilty. I think everyone would agree that the LTTE controlled its territory and the people in that territory harshly and didn't allow internal dissent. The civilians trapped in the war zone toward the end of the war can't all be assumed to be LTTE supporters. Certainly, if you read what the Sri Lankan government said about the trapped civilians during that time, the government didn't make that assumption. The government referred to its troops as "liberating" the civilians and repeatedly characterized them as being held hostage by the LTTE (and AI said that it had received reports that the LTTE were holding civilians as human shields, without their consent).

    I can't agree with that assumption being made in the comment.

  130. Jim,

    Thanks for that considered reply and it does cover two areas.

    My first point is about the unavoidable truth that sometimes, killing the right people prevents and/or stops continuing horrendous HR abuses. Cambodia, Sierra Leone and Rwanda are well proven instances of this. The confidence of my argument isn't based on my expertise (or lack of it), but on a straightforward reading of the available history. In all three cases, only a military action (killing and crushing) lead to the annihilation of those engaging in truly unspeakable acts of violence against civilians. We saw it with our own eyes and it happened in the last two decades. This isn't the Punic Wars with disputed legends making the determination of the truth a matter of conjecture.

    For SL, the same applies. As the AI specialist for SL, you'll be well aware the the LTTE's participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically 'pure' state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn't deny that. VP's appeal for funding from the Diaspora's for the 'Final Battle', the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies, etc, etc.. Sure, he was a real peace lover!

    Whilst I applaud your concern about the current level of HR abuses in SL, avoiding the discussion of how we got where we are now, as opposed to where we would've been without the crushing of the LTTE is simply untenable.

    BTW, I like your move to get 'R2P' into the discussion by saying that "…the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country’s government." R2P might've worked (and did in Sierra Leone) where the government has ceased to exist or exercise control and the Brits stepped in and were warmly welcomed the terrified civilians.

    But it cannot be applied to SL, where a legitimate govt was combatting a racist, separatist terror group. I would've welcomed a R2P exercise in SL, by the IC, had they sent troops to assist the SL govt in its' campaign against the LTTE, but I guess the Western bloc of the IC was far too pre-occupied invading Iraq and getting bogged down in other quagmires. Further, who exactly would've invaded SL on a R2P mission, against the express wishes of the SL govt and Armed Forces? Luxembourg, or perhaps Norway?

    I'll give you another successful example of R2P working, in the ousting of Idi Amin in Uganda due to the invasion in 1979 of Uganda by Tanzania and Ugandan exiles.

    I'll reply to the 'war crimes' section shortly and again I appreciate your dialogue.

  131. Jim,

    Thanks for that considered reply and it does cover two areas.

    My first point is about the unavoidable truth that sometimes, killing the right people prevents and/or stops continuing horrendous HR abuses. Cambodia, Sierra Leone and Rwanda are well proven instances of this. The confidence of my argument isn't based on my expertise (or lack of it), but on a straightforward reading of the available history.

    In all three cases, only a military action (killing and crushing) lead to the annihilation of those engaging in truly unspeakable acts of violence against civilians. We saw it with our own eyes and it happened in the last two decades. This isn't the Punic Wars with disputed legends making the determination of the truth a matter of conjecture.

    For SL, the same applies. As the AI specialist for SL, you'll be well aware the the LTTE's participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically 'pure' state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn't deny that. VP's appeal for funding from the Diaspora's for the 'Final Battle', the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies, etc, etc.. Sure, he was a real peace lover!

    Whilst I applaud your concern about the current level of HR abuses in SL, avoiding the discussion of how we got where we are now, as opposed to where we would've been without the crushing of the LTTE is simply untenable.

    BTW, I like your move to get 'R2P' into the discussion by saying that "…the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country’s government." R2P might've worked (and did in Sierra Leone) where the government has ceased to exist or exercise control and the Brits stepped in and were warmly welcomed the terrified civilians.

    But it cannot be applied to SL, where a legitimate govt was combatting a racist, separatist terror group. I would've welcomed a R2P exercise in SL, by the IC, had they sent troops to assist the SL govt in its' campaign against the LTTE, but I guess the Western bloc of the IC was far too pre-occupied invading Iraq and getting bogged down in other quagmires. Further, who exactly would've invaded SL on a R2P mission, against the express wishes of the SL govt and Armed Forces? Luxembourg, or perhaps Norway?

    I'll give you another successful example of R2P working, in the ousting of Idi Amin in Uganda due to the invasion in 1979 of Uganda by Tanzania and Ugandan exiles.

    I'll reply to the 'war crimes' section shortly and again I appreciate your dialogue.

  132. In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 16, 7:39 A.M., I would note that the comment assumes that the IDPs in the camps are already guilty of some degree of involvement with the LTTE, even without having investigated any of their cases. That’s discrimination – assuming that because someone is Tamil and comes from the former war zone, they’re already guilty. I think everyone would agree that the LTTE controlled its territory and the people in that territory harshly and didn’t allow internal dissent. The civilians trapped in the war zone toward the end of the war can’t all be assumed to be LTTE supporters. Certainly, if you read what the Sri Lankan government said about the trapped civilians during that time, the government didn’t make that assumption. The government referred to its troops as “liberating” the civilians and repeatedly characterized them as being held hostage by the LTTE (and AI said that it had received reports that the LTTE were holding civilians as human shields, without their consent).

    I can’t agree with that assumption being made in the comment.

  133. I would like to point out, for those interested, that there are now two videos on the Sri Lanka page (www.amnestyusa.org/srilanka) concerning the IDP camps; they’re in the “Unlock the Camps in Sri Lanka!” box.

  134. Jim,

    Thanks for that considered reply and it does cover two areas.

    My first point is about the unavoidable truth that sometimes, killing the right people prevents and/or stops continuing horrendous HR abuses. Cambodia, Sierra Leone and Rwanda are well proven instances of this. The confidence of my argument isn’t based on my expertise (or lack of it), but on a straightforward reading of the available history. In all three cases, only a military action (killing and crushing) lead to the annihilation of those engaging in truly unspeakable acts of violence against civilians. We saw it with our own eyes and it happened in the last two decades. This isn’t the Punic Wars with disputed legends making the determination of the truth a matter of conjecture.

    For SL, the same applies. As the AI specialist for SL, you’ll be well aware the the LTTE’s participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically ‘pure’ state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn’t deny that. VP’s appeal for funding from the Diaspora’s for the ‘Final Battle’, the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies, etc, etc.. Sure, he was a real peace lover!

    Whilst I applaud your concern about the current level of HR abuses in SL, avoiding the discussion of how we got where we are now, as opposed to where we would’ve been without the crushing of the LTTE is simply untenable.

    BTW, I like your move to get ‘R2P’ into the discussion by saying that “…the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country’s government.” R2P might’ve worked (and did in Sierra Leone) where the government has ceased to exist or exercise control and the Brits stepped in and were warmly welcomed the terrified civilians.

    But it cannot be applied to SL, where a legitimate govt was combatting a racist, separatist terror group. I would’ve welcomed a R2P exercise in SL, by the IC, had they sent troops to assist the SL govt in its’ campaign against the LTTE, but I guess the Western bloc of the IC was far too pre-occupied invading Iraq and getting bogged down in other quagmires. Further, who exactly would’ve invaded SL on a R2P mission, against the express wishes of the SL govt and Armed Forces? Luxembourg, or perhaps Norway?

    I’ll give you another successful example of R2P working, in the ousting of Idi Amin in Uganda due to the invasion in 1979 of Uganda by Tanzania and Ugandan exiles.

    I’ll reply to the ‘war crimes’ section shortly and again I appreciate your dialogue.

  135. Jim,

    Thanks for that considered reply and it does cover two areas.

    My first point is about the unavoidable truth that sometimes, killing the right people prevents and/or stops continuing horrendous HR abuses. Cambodia, Sierra Leone and Rwanda are well proven instances of this. The confidence of my argument isn’t based on my expertise (or lack of it), but on a straightforward reading of the available history.

    In all three cases, only a military action (killing and crushing) lead to the annihilation of those engaging in truly unspeakable acts of violence against civilians. We saw it with our own eyes and it happened in the last two decades. This isn’t the Punic Wars with disputed legends making the determination of the truth a matter of conjecture.

    For SL, the same applies. As the AI specialist for SL, you’ll be well aware the the LTTE’s participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically ‘pure’ state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn’t deny that. VP’s appeal for funding from the Diaspora’s for the ‘Final Battle’, the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies, etc, etc.. Sure, he was a real peace lover!

    Whilst I applaud your concern about the current level of HR abuses in SL, avoiding the discussion of how we got where we are now, as opposed to where we would’ve been without the crushing of the LTTE is simply untenable.

    BTW, I like your move to get ‘R2P’ into the discussion by saying that “…the international community would be justified in armed intervention in a country, against that country’s government.” R2P might’ve worked (and did in Sierra Leone) where the government has ceased to exist or exercise control and the Brits stepped in and were warmly welcomed the terrified civilians.

    But it cannot be applied to SL, where a legitimate govt was combatting a racist, separatist terror group. I would’ve welcomed a R2P exercise in SL, by the IC, had they sent troops to assist the SL govt in its’ campaign against the LTTE, but I guess the Western bloc of the IC was far too pre-occupied invading Iraq and getting bogged down in other quagmires. Further, who exactly would’ve invaded SL on a R2P mission, against the express wishes of the SL govt and Armed Forces? Luxembourg, or perhaps Norway?

    I’ll give you another successful example of R2P working, in the ousting of Idi Amin in Uganda due to the invasion in 1979 of Uganda by Tanzania and Ugandan exiles.

    I’ll reply to the ‘war crimes’ section shortly and again I appreciate your dialogue.

  136. Oh No No No Jim MD !!!

    I never assumed things and you assuming on behalf of me is not quite right either… I did not by any means say that "All of the people" who were trapped during the final battle are LTTE. What I said was there are layers of people who supported in many ways – some because they didn't have a choice and some because they wanted to and another set who were not involved at all.

    Filtering is to identify the layers and release the innocent, rehabilitate the others…

    At the same time, you need to show all of them (immaterial of the layer they belong to) the reality and the world out side. Seldom they go the opportunity to know what's out side the LTTE controlled areas. So, what I said was that this would be a good opportunity to elevate the knowledge standards of these individuals as they will also see what opportunities the world has to offer to them once they are free to settle down..

    I sincerely hope that the time would come sooner than later for the innocent ones to return home – Not the LTTE guys – because that would come at my child's expense.

    I would still like that other discussion to happen soon – Also I miss Alfonso now – hope you haven't blocked him…

  137. Oh No No No Jim MD !!!

    I never assumed things and you assuming on behalf of me is not quite right either… I did not by any means say that “All of the people” who were trapped during the final battle are LTTE. What I said was there are layers of people who supported in many ways – some because they didn’t have a choice and some because they wanted to and another set who were not involved at all.

    Filtering is to identify the layers and release the innocent, rehabilitate the others…

    At the same time, you need to show all of them (immaterial of the layer they belong to) the reality and the world out side. Seldom they go the opportunity to know what’s out side the LTTE controlled areas. So, what I said was that this would be a good opportunity to elevate the knowledge standards of these individuals as they will also see what opportunities the world has to offer to them once they are free to settle down..

    I sincerely hope that the time would come sooner than later for the innocent ones to return home – Not the LTTE guys – because that would come at my child’s expense.

    I would still like that other discussion to happen soon – Also I miss Alfonso now – hope you haven’t blocked him…

  138. In response to Mango2's comment of Oct. 16, 8:18 P.M., I appreciate that the comment only dealt with the first argument and left the second argument for another time, thus permitting the comment to remain reasonably succinct. I'm aware that my earlier response was extremely lengthy and I'll try to be more succinct in future.

    The first argument starts by saying that killing certain human rights violators "prevents and/or stops" future abuses. Certainly, the people who've been killed won't be committing any more abuses. But will others take their place and the killings only lead to more future abuses? The argument cites certain other countries as examples for where, it's argued, others didn't take the place of those killed so there have not been any successors taking the place of the people killed and committing further abuses. The examples are intended to show that it's possible that others won't take the place of those killed. It's argued that Sri Lanka will fall into the category of the countries cited.

    The argument does not address whether it would have been possible to stop future abuses by some method other than killing the abusers. It appears to say that in the Sri Lankan context, it would not have been possible. This assertion appears to be based only on a description of the LTTE's past behavior; the Sri Lankan government's past behavior is not examined in this context.

    I agree that understanding the context of human rights abuses is important. The LTTE arose in a context where the Tamil minority felt discriminated against by the Sinhalese majority since independence, particularly over issues concerning land, education and language. Successive Sri Lankan governments did not successfully resolve these grievances in a peaceful fashion, and Tamil political parties escalated their demands from autonomy to seeking an independent state. In the 1970s, several militant groups (including the LTTE) were formed by Tamil youth to achieve the independent state through violence. In the course of the conflict, both the Sri Lankan security forces and the LTTE committed horrific human rights abuses.

    Will holding the IDPs in the camps indefinitely continue a sense of discrimination by the Tamil minority and ultimately lead to renewed conflict? Will treating all Tamil civilians displaced from the war zone as LTTE members, until proven otherwise, result in deepening embitterment? Even if it doesn't, it is a human rights violation to detain the IDPs in the camps; that violation should end as soon as possible.

  139. In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 17, 3:41 A.M., I'm sorry if I misunderstood your earlier comment. But as you do not allow any of the IDPs to be released immediately from the camps, you are assuming that it is appropriate to detain them until they are screened. I don't agree with you there. The government isn't entitled to detain the IDPs until the government has decided that they're innocent. The IDPs, like other citizens of Sri Lanka, are entitled to their liberty. The government is entitled to detain them only if it has reasonable cause to suspect them of a crime; being from the former war zone isn't reasonable cause.

  140. In response to Mango2′s comment of Oct. 16, 8:18 P.M., I appreciate that the comment only dealt with the first argument and left the second argument for another time, thus permitting the comment to remain reasonably succinct. I’m aware that my earlier response was extremely lengthy and I’ll try to be more succinct in future.

    The first argument starts by saying that killing certain human rights violators “prevents and/or stops” future abuses. Certainly, the people who’ve been killed won’t be committing any more abuses. But will others take their place and the killings only lead to more future abuses? The argument cites certain other countries as examples for where, it’s argued, others didn’t take the place of those killed so there have not been any successors taking the place of the people killed and committing further abuses. The examples are intended to show that it’s possible that others won’t take the place of those killed. It’s argued that Sri Lanka will fall into the category of the countries cited.

    The argument does not address whether it would have been possible to stop future abuses by some method other than killing the abusers. It appears to say that in the Sri Lankan context, it would not have been possible. This assertion appears to be based only on a description of the LTTE’s past behavior; the Sri Lankan government’s past behavior is not examined in this context.

    I agree that understanding the context of human rights abuses is important. The LTTE arose in a context where the Tamil minority felt discriminated against by the Sinhalese majority since independence, particularly over issues concerning land, education and language. Successive Sri Lankan governments did not successfully resolve these grievances in a peaceful fashion, and Tamil political parties escalated their demands from autonomy to seeking an independent state. In the 1970s, several militant groups (including the LTTE) were formed by Tamil youth to achieve the independent state through violence. In the course of the conflict, both the Sri Lankan security forces and the LTTE committed horrific human rights abuses.

    Will holding the IDPs in the camps indefinitely continue a sense of discrimination by the Tamil minority and ultimately lead to renewed conflict? Will treating all Tamil civilians displaced from the war zone as LTTE members, until proven otherwise, result in deepening embitterment? Even if it doesn’t, it is a human rights violation to detain the IDPs in the camps; that violation should end as soon as possible.

  141. In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 17, 3:41 A.M., I’m sorry if I misunderstood your earlier comment. But as you do not allow any of the IDPs to be released immediately from the camps, you are assuming that it is appropriate to detain them until they are screened. I don’t agree with you there. The government isn’t entitled to detain the IDPs until the government has decided that they’re innocent. The IDPs, like other citizens of Sri Lanka, are entitled to their liberty. The government is entitled to detain them only if it has reasonable cause to suspect them of a crime; being from the former war zone isn’t reasonable cause.

  142. Dear Jim,

    I am not assuming, I am saying it is right – and I am in favour of detaining them until screening off the LTTE and making suitable livign conditions for them – not until anyone is proven guilty or otherwise as I feel it is a dying need given the situation and yes – that is the difference between us – my thought process is purely linked with a bigger picture than a short term gain and what I am trying to do is justify that thought process.

    You obviously wouldn't understand as you were never faced with the situation as we did. If you were in this situation, by the looks of it, (Sorry to say, but) you would be one of the first to run away than face the situation..

    Everyone loves freedom and are entitled to it given the environment is right too.. You don't let fish go free on land, but water – let the GOSL create the water than release them in land where they and the others would be in danger…

  143. Mr.Jim Pappa,

    To be frank, what you say is incorrect from all standpoints. For the sake of a few, an entire race cannot be held to ransom and subject to these apalling conditions. You are talking of some situations you faced or you think might face and reason the need for detention. Can you for a moment spare some thought for the situations being faced by the detained people? Can you realize the trauma they were facing when they fled the shelling and then being subject to infinite misery in these camps? Put yourself in their position – would you reason the way you reason now? Let me repeat what you said – "You obviously wouldn’t understand as you were never faced with the situation" the IDPs are facing.
    Of course all my above questions assume you have some HR concerns – if you are like my friend Mango – a paid Government internet agent who has no go but to support the evil designs of the government and defend the government on every internet forum, then my above questions are inapt for you.

    Also your comparison of fish and water is inappropriate and not in good taste and reveals your attitude of callousnes for your fellow citizens – for your kind information we are talking of human rights and not fish rights. We cannot wait for water – just leave us – we are humans – we will dig wells and get water.

  144. Dear Jim,

    I am not assuming, I am saying it is right – and I am in favour of detaining them until screening off the LTTE and making suitable livign conditions for them – not until anyone is proven guilty or otherwise as I feel it is a dying need given the situation and yes – that is the difference between us – my thought process is purely linked with a bigger picture than a short term gain and what I am trying to do is justify that thought process.

    You obviously wouldn’t understand as you were never faced with the situation as we did. If you were in this situation, by the looks of it, (Sorry to say, but) you would be one of the first to run away than face the situation..

    Everyone loves freedom and are entitled to it given the environment is right too.. You don’t let fish go free on land, but water – let the GOSL create the water than release them in land where they and the others would be in danger…

  145. Mr.Jim Pappa,

    To be frank, what you say is incorrect from all standpoints. For the sake of a few, an entire race cannot be held to ransom and subject to these apalling conditions. You are talking of some situations you faced or you think might face and reason the need for detention. Can you for a moment spare some thought for the situations being faced by the detained people? Can you realize the trauma they were facing when they fled the shelling and then being subject to infinite misery in these camps? Put yourself in their position – would you reason the way you reason now? Let me repeat what you said – “You obviously wouldn’t understand as you were never faced with the situation” the IDPs are facing.
    Of course all my above questions assume you have some HR concerns – if you are like my friend Mango – a paid Government internet agent who has no go but to support the evil designs of the government and defend the government on every internet forum, then my above questions are inapt for you.

    Also your comparison of fish and water is inappropriate and not in good taste and reveals your attitude of callousnes for your fellow citizens – for your kind information we are talking of human rights and not fish rights. We cannot wait for water – just leave us – we are humans – we will dig wells and get water.

  146. Humanitarian,

    I really wish I was a paid SL govt agent, as you allege. My Elite Cubicle would now be the size of a palace.

    On previous postings you claimed to be someone from a foreign country who cared deeply about HR in SL. Our gratitude to you wise and benevolent foreigners is boundless. We are indeed blessed to be cared for by you. Yet now you write "we will dig wells and get water". Are you just a concerned civilian or just another diaspora LTTE supporter?

    You refusal to answer my previous questions about the HR plight of IDPs created by the LTTE now makes more sense.

    Your proper concern about the dreadful ordeal endured by the Vanni IDPs including shelling, wounds, hunger etc are truly inspiring. Yet you exhibit a curious lack of interest in the ordeals they endured as they were driven from their homes, by the LTTE, to act as human shields for the LTTE.

  147. Jim,

    Thanks for summarising my position so well. My concern wasn't simply a cessation of HR abuses, but the dismantling of an ethnically/racially defined statelet within the Island. [Personally, I doubt the scientific validity of the theory which claims that Tamils & Singhalese are racially different, but that's can of worms I'll leave for others to open].

    "The argument does not address whether it would have been possible to stop future abuses by some method other than killing the abusers."

    Using the example of the three countries, Cambodia, Sierra Leone, Uganda (and also Rwanda), so far, they haven't slipped back into uncontrolled anarchy which preceded the killing and crushingthe right people. The fact we can't predict the future doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve our lives and security, now. In the long run, we're all dead.

    "It appears to say that in the Sri Lankan context, it would not have been possible."
    100% true. There wasn't even a shred of evidence that LTTE would be countered by anything other than a return to a full-scale, to-the-bitter-end campaign of Eelam War 4. The LTTE asking for 'talks and ceasefire' in early May '09 doesn't count! I'll repeat what I wrote earlier.

    The LTTE's participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically 'pure' state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn't deny that. VP's appeal for funding from the Diaspora for the 'Final Battle', the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies etc…

    Even when LTTE had almost everything they wanted, in 2002 when he controlled the North & East, they were unable to compromise and build on their gains.

    There's more chance of me winning the Warriors Award of Tamil Eelam (Thamizheezha Ma'ravar Viruthu) than there was of VP & the LTTE agreeing to compromise their demands for a separate state.

    I've never shied away from pointing out that SL govts (of all political hues) have committed HR abuses over the course of 30+ year war including the brutal quelling of the 2nd JVP insurgency in the 1980s. As you must know, this is an immutable fact of [counter-insurgency] warfare, excepting the Falklands War where only the combatants and sheep suffered. I'm not saying I agree with it or like it, but that's the way it is. When a state fights for its' national survival, as Western bloc countries have done in the past (and not so recent past), unfortunately this sort of thing happens. You'll note, I've resisted invoking Godwin's Law even on this justifiable occasion and I hope you appreciate it.

    I agree with you totally that the IDP camp situation must be ended as soon as practicably possible. Which sane, human being with any compassion would argue otherwise? Again, you raise the false claim of 'indefinite' detention (which we've argued about before, so I won't bother re-treading that ground) when we know that internal and external pressure will mean that the SL govt will release the Vanni IDPs. Not simply because Western bloc INGOs demand it, but because it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, their claims to be a national govt will be found to be wanting.

    My question to you & AI is this: what are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you'll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

  148. Mr.Mango,

    Instead of being concerned about my tense, direct/indirect speech and other forms of grammar, please be concerned about your fellow citizens up north. Who I am does not matter. Human beings do not need to have boundaries – the use of "we" only when I belong to the island is again parochial and the natural extension of the Sinhalese parachiolism that you have exhibited in every post.

    The act of driving people from their homes is highly objectionable and inhumanitarian, be it by SL government, LTTE, US, Australia, Africa or any European country, whoever it might be. I think this is the second time I have given you the answer. On the war, the shelling of civilian areas by SLA was in violation of international laws. Killing 20000 people in the last 2 weeks of he war was a stark reminder of Rwanda that continues in a more structured form now – incarcerating people to worst of conditions, killing them through diseases, monsoons as well as unlawfully abducting people and killing them.

    I classified you to be a paid government slave as a favour – but you seem to deny it vehemently. Otherwise some of your racist statements and utter discard (and cruel sarcasm – remember your genocide classifications!) for the civilians potrays you as a hardcore Sinhala chauvinist who does not even have a "political reason" to express the way you reason things.

  149. Humanitarian,

    I really wish I was a paid SL govt agent, as you allege. My Elite Cubicle would now be the size of a palace.

    On previous postings you claimed to be someone from a foreign country who cared deeply about HR in SL. Our gratitude to you wise and benevolent foreigners is boundless. We are indeed blessed to be cared for by you. Yet now you write “we will dig wells and get water”. Are you just a concerned civilian or just another diaspora LTTE supporter?

    You refusal to answer my previous questions about the HR plight of IDPs created by the LTTE now makes more sense.

    Your proper concern about the dreadful ordeal endured by the Vanni IDPs including shelling, wounds, hunger etc are truly inspiring. Yet you exhibit a curious lack of interest in the ordeals they endured as they were driven from their homes, by the LTTE, to act as human shields for the LTTE.

  150. Hey Humanitarian !!

    Are you feeling OK ?? You have mentioned,

    To be frank, what you say is incorrect from all standpoints. For the sake of a few, an entire race cannot be held to ransom and subject to these apalling conditions.

    Do you know what you mean by an entire race ?? as per dictionary
    a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

    Now may I ask how many are detained in Camps of this "Race" you are taking of ?? 300,000 – a little bit more than the Wedda Population (or Wedda Race I may say) ???

    Dude – you better use your words right – I might forgive a person like Alfonso for a mistake of this nature, but you seem to have better language skills of the Sudda's than him and you better know what you write..

    There is NO race being detained, there are a few in IDP camps which are kept there for a good reason and for a temporary period – None of you came in to their rescue when they were suffering for 30 years under the LTTE rule without food, shelter, transport etc.. (Basically nothing) and the food sent to them stolen by LTTE – where were you then ???

    At least now, when they come out in the near future, they will have a future and hope for their children to live peacefully in a free land than have a cyanide capsule around the neck..

    Can you for a moment spare some thought for the situations being faced by the detained people? Can you realize the trauma they were facing when they fled the shelling and then being subject to infinite misery in these camps? Put yourself in their position – would you reason the way you reason now? Let me repeat what you said – “You obviously wouldn’t understand as you were never faced with the situation” the IDPs are facing.

    LOL – they were released for their own good – yes they went through hardships worse than us because of the LTTE – at least now they are having hope for the future. Hey dude – this is a sacrifice – even I do it now – we are still being stopped at check points and it is troublesome – but we do that sacrifice because we know that it is necessary – IDP's is a different kind of a similar situation – it is required for a short period for a long term gain.

    Of course all my above questions assume you have some HR concerns – if you are like my friend Mango – a paid Government internet agent who has no go but to support the evil designs of the government and defend the government on every internet forum, then my above questions are inapt for you.

    I don't know Mango personally so, I wouldn't comment on him being an agent – but I am not at all attached to the government and I would not think that all who write here against detention are so either – In that case, can I assume that you are a paid LTTE agent – supporting their Evil Terror cause and ensure that it will rise up again ??


    Also your comparison of fish and water is inappropriate and not in good taste and reveals your attitude of callousnes for your fellow citizens – for your kind information we are talking of human rights and not fish rights. We cannot wait for water – just leave us – we are humans – we will dig wells and get water.

    Agree with you that it might not be the best example, but it is an example and should not be taken in it's exact literal meaning. I am sure we have let you be where ever you are, so you cannot tell any of us to let you be. You sound that you are already in water. If an IDP had told me what you just mentioned I would say, the last time we allowed you to dig wells, you dug your own graves – so let us do it right for you this time… – Makes sense ha ??

  151. Mr. Human !

    With regard to your comment of

    The act of driving people from their homes is highly objectionable and inhumanitarian, be it by SL government, LTTE, US, Australia, Africa or any European country, whoever it might be.

    The Sri Lankan Government never drove any person from their houses. It was the LTTE who took the people from their homes to use as Human Shields – the government has given them homes until things settle down.

    I don't know who told you or where you got the false details on SLAF bombing civilians and killing 20,000. If your source was Tamil.net, please discard it as it is a mouthpiece for a Terrorist organization names LTTE.

    Rwanda – there was a Genocide – a well planned attack against a group due to racism – In Sri Lanka it was to save Tamils and the others from Terrorism – there is a massive difference. For a person who is quite critical about using examples, you seem to be using a very wrong and a bad example.. !!

    There was no Monsoon in these areas either – you would not know when you live in the cool atmosphere you live in – hence, I strongly recommend that you better get your facts right prior to putting them down or else we will have to assume that you are a paid agent of LTTE..

  152. Jim,

    Thanks for summarising my position so well. My concern wasn’t simply a cessation of HR abuses, but the dismantling of an ethnically/racially defined statelet within the Island. [Personally, I doubt the scientific validity of the theory which claims that Tamils & Singhalese are racially different, but that's can of worms I'll leave for others to open].

    “The argument does not address whether it would have been possible to stop future abuses by some method other than killing the abusers.”

    Using the example of the three countries, Cambodia, Sierra Leone, Uganda (and also Rwanda), so far, they haven’t slipped back into uncontrolled anarchy which preceded the killing and crushingthe right people. The fact we can’t predict the future doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to improve our lives and security, now. In the long run, we’re all dead.

    “It appears to say that in the Sri Lankan context, it would not have been possible.”
    100% true. There wasn’t even a shred of evidence that LTTE would be countered by anything other than a return to a full-scale, to-the-bitter-end campaign of Eelam War 4. The LTTE asking for ‘talks and ceasefire’ in early May ’09 doesn’t count! I’ll repeat what I wrote earlier.

    The LTTE’s participation in innumerable peace talks were only and always with the non-negotiatiable determination to win a separate, ethnically ‘pure’ state. Even the most fervent Eelamist frequenting this blog wouldn’t deny that. VP’s appeal for funding from the Diaspora for the ‘Final Battle’, the arms ships, stockpiling of weapons, smuggling in of aircraft hidden amongst Tsunami relief supplies etc…

    Even when LTTE had almost everything they wanted, in 2002 when he controlled the North & East, they were unable to compromise and build on their gains.

    There’s more chance of me winning the Warriors Award of Tamil Eelam (Thamizheezha Ma’ravar Viruthu) than there was of VP & the LTTE agreeing to compromise their demands for a separate state.

    I’ve never shied away from pointing out that SL govts (of all political hues) have committed HR abuses over the course of 30+ year war including the brutal quelling of the 2nd JVP insurgency in the 1980s. As you must know, this is an immutable fact of [counter-insurgency] warfare, excepting the Falklands War where only the combatants and sheep suffered. I’m not saying I agree with it or like it, but that’s the way it is. When a state fights for its’ national survival, as Western bloc countries have done in the past (and not so recent past), unfortunately this sort of thing happens. You’ll note, I’ve resisted invoking Godwin’s Law even on this justifiable occasion and I hope you appreciate it.

    I agree with you totally that the IDP camp situation must be ended as soon as practicably possible. Which sane, human being with any compassion would argue otherwise? Again, you raise the false claim of ‘indefinite’ detention (which we’ve argued about before, so I won’t bother re-treading that ground) when we know that internal and external pressure will mean that the SL govt will release the Vanni IDPs. Not simply because Western bloc INGOs demand it, but because it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, their claims to be a national govt will be found to be wanting.

    My question to you & AI is this: what are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you’ll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

  153. Mr. Human !!

    I never said that my sacrifice was better than anyone Else's – What I said was that all of us do sacrifices in our own way – go back and read it right (DP’s is a different kind of a similar situation – it is required for a short period for a long term gain) – typical of you to try twist words… !!

    It's nothing to do with my race or your race, but purely on geographic locations of IDP's, My Self and you who do not have to sacrifice anything by the looks of it as you are not in the vicinity of Sri Lanka..

    The danger in the statement comes only when it's twisted as you do… at least I have to opportunity to correct it – but in many cases I know that it is not the case, which makes you thrive on lying to the unknown where they turn out to be "Innocent Victims" – see Jim MD for an example !

  154. Human !!

    Dude – if Genocide is to happen in side Camps (Against Tamils as you say), we need to catch all the tamils living in Colombo and other areas and take them to these camps and kill them there… I can tell you safely that it is not so by staying in Colombo as my good friend Jeyaram (a tamil himself) is seated next to me and laughing at me commenting on your stupid questions – He want's me to give up as he feels you guys will never come right…

    Mr. Jim Pappa, Can you please visit these camps and come back with a report on what exactly is happening?

    What's happening is that the last bit of people who were saved from the LTTE are put in to a camp and kept there for various reasons that I have mentioned several times before.. (I get information from a very reliable source – it is not the best of conditions there, but sufficient to support livelihood for a short period of time – say 1 year max)

    Then we can discuss. Why are the camps locked?

    Locked because there is a requirement to curtail movement to and from camp due to various reasons and the most important being security reasons – for the better of those who are inside and out side of the camp… – let's discuss

    How are you sure there is no genocide happening?

    My Friend Jeyaram (A Tamil) and many other Tamils are living quite happily and in harmony with all of us without being taken to the camps and killed !!

    FYI – Monsoons are not temporary – it is predicted and has been happening for many thousands of years in the past too – it doesn't come and go – What happened was a normal rain and not a monsoon – I am sure that the Army personnel there are not duds to let a whole camp flood and in turn let some escape…

  155. Mr.Mango,

    Instead of being concerned about my tense, direct/indirect speech and other forms of grammar, please be concerned about your fellow citizens up north. Who I am does not matter. Human beings do not need to have boundaries – the use of “we” only when I belong to the island is again parochial and the natural extension of the Sinhalese parachiolism that you have exhibited in every post.

    The act of driving people from their homes is highly objectionable and inhumanitarian, be it by SL government, LTTE, US, Australia, Africa or any European country, whoever it might be. I think this is the second time I have given you the answer. On the war, the shelling of civilian areas by SLA was in violation of international laws. Killing 20000 people in the last 2 weeks of he war was a stark reminder of Rwanda that continues in a more structured form now – incarcerating people to worst of conditions, killing them through diseases, monsoons as well as unlawfully abducting people and killing them.

    I classified you to be a paid government slave as a favour – but you seem to deny it vehemently. Otherwise some of your racist statements and utter discard (and cruel sarcasm – remember your genocide classifications!) for the civilians potrays you as a hardcore Sinhala chauvinist who does not even have a “political reason” to express the way you reason things.

  156. Hey Humanitarian !!

    Are you feeling OK ?? You have mentioned,

    To be frank, what you say is incorrect from all standpoints. For the sake of a few, an entire race cannot be held to ransom and subject to these apalling conditions.

    Do you know what you mean by an entire race ?? as per dictionary
    a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

    Now may I ask how many are detained in Camps of this “Race” you are taking of ?? 300,000 – a little bit more than the Wedda Population (or Wedda Race I may say) ???

    Dude – you better use your words right – I might forgive a person like Alfonso for a mistake of this nature, but you seem to have better language skills of the Sudda’s than him and you better know what you write..

    There is NO race being detained, there are a few in IDP camps which are kept there for a good reason and for a temporary period – None of you came in to their rescue when they were suffering for 30 years under the LTTE rule without food, shelter, transport etc.. (Basically nothing) and the food sent to them stolen by LTTE – where were you then ???

    At least now, when they come out in the near future, they will have a future and hope for their children to live peacefully in a free land than have a cyanide capsule around the neck..

    Can you for a moment spare some thought for the situations being faced by the detained people? Can you realize the trauma they were facing when they fled the shelling and then being subject to infinite misery in these camps? Put yourself in their position – would you reason the way you reason now? Let me repeat what you said – “You obviously wouldn’t understand as you were never faced with the situation” the IDPs are facing.

    LOL – they were released for their own good – yes they went through hardships worse than us because of the LTTE – at least now they are having hope for the future. Hey dude – this is a sacrifice – even I do it now – we are still being stopped at check points and it is troublesome – but we do that sacrifice because we know that it is necessary – IDP’s is a different kind of a similar situation – it is required for a short period for a long term gain.

    Of course all my above questions assume you have some HR concerns – if you are like my friend Mango – a paid Government internet agent who has no go but to support the evil designs of the government and defend the government on every internet forum, then my above questions are inapt for you.

    I don’t know Mango personally so, I wouldn’t comment on him being an agent – but I am not at all attached to the government and I would not think that all who write here against detention are so either – In that case, can I assume that you are a paid LTTE agent – supporting their Evil Terror cause and ensure that it will rise up again ??


    Also your comparison of fish and water is inappropriate and not in good taste and reveals your attitude of callousnes for your fellow citizens – for your kind information we are talking of human rights and not fish rights. We cannot wait for water – just leave us – we are humans – we will dig wells and get water.

    Agree with you that it might not be the best example, but it is an example and should not be taken in it’s exact literal meaning. I am sure we have let you be where ever you are, so you cannot tell any of us to let you be. You sound that you are already in water. If an IDP had told me what you just mentioned I would say, the last time we allowed you to dig wells, you dug your own graves – so let us do it right for you this time… – Makes sense ha ??

  157. Mr. Human !

    With regard to your comment of

    The act of driving people from their homes is highly objectionable and inhumanitarian, be it by SL government, LTTE, US, Australia, Africa or any European country, whoever it might be.

    The Sri Lankan Government never drove any person from their houses. It was the LTTE who took the people from their homes to use as Human Shields – the government has given them homes until things settle down.

    I don’t know who told you or where you got the false details on SLAF bombing civilians and killing 20,000. If your source was Tamil.net, please discard it as it is a mouthpiece for a Terrorist organization names LTTE.

    Rwanda – there was a Genocide – a well planned attack against a group due to racism – In Sri Lanka it was to save Tamils and the others from Terrorism – there is a massive difference. For a person who is quite critical about using examples, you seem to be using a very wrong and a bad example.. !!

    There was no Monsoon in these areas either – you would not know when you live in the cool atmosphere you live in – hence, I strongly recommend that you better get your facts right prior to putting them down or else we will have to assume that you are a paid agent of LTTE..

  158. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    I did not realize the supreme sacrifice you had made for your fellow “locked up” Tamil citizens – subjecting your travel to checkpoints. The whole Tamil community, the world stands up to salute you.

    To be frank, either you dont understand the severity of the situation or you are a racist with different measures of “sacrifices” for people of different backgrounds. Please do not make such foolishly dangerous statements – it just nullifies any remotely valid point you might have wanted to bring to the table, since it just portrays a lack of knowledge or a extreme bias.

  159. Rwanda – there was a Genocide – a well planned attack against a group due to racism – In Sri Lanka it was to save Tamils and the others from Terrorism – there is a massive difference. For a person who is quite critical about using examples, you seem to be using a very wrong and a bad example.. !!

    Mr. Jim Pappa, Can you please visit these camps and come back with a report on what exactly is happening? Then we can discuss. Why are the camps locked? How are you sure there is no genocide happening?

    There was no Monsoon in these areas either – you would not know when you live in the cool atmosphere you live in

    The last (temporary) monsoons less than a month back killed a dozen people in the camps – please check the reports of your own government. I think it must be possible for you to get your knowledge updated even if you live in conditions as wretched as being subjected to travel checkpoints.

  160. Mr. Human !!

    I never said that my sacrifice was better than anyone Else’s – What I said was that all of us do sacrifices in our own way – go back and read it right (DP’s is a different kind of a similar situation – it is required for a short period for a long term gain) – typical of you to try twist words… !!

    It’s nothing to do with my race or your race, but purely on geographic locations of IDP’s, My Self and you who do not have to sacrifice anything by the looks of it as you are not in the vicinity of Sri Lanka..

    The danger in the statement comes only when it’s twisted as you do… at least I have to opportunity to correct it – but in many cases I know that it is not the case, which makes you thrive on lying to the unknown where they turn out to be “Innocent Victims” – see Jim MD for an example !

  161. Human !!

    Dude – if Genocide is to happen in side Camps (Against Tamils as you say), we need to catch all the tamils living in Colombo and other areas and take them to these camps and kill them there… I can tell you safely that it is not so by staying in Colombo as my good friend Jeyaram (a tamil himself) is seated next to me and laughing at me commenting on your stupid questions – He want’s me to give up as he feels you guys will never come right…

    Mr. Jim Pappa, Can you please visit these camps and come back with a report on what exactly is happening?

    What’s happening is that the last bit of people who were saved from the LTTE are put in to a camp and kept there for various reasons that I have mentioned several times before.. (I get information from a very reliable source – it is not the best of conditions there, but sufficient to support livelihood for a short period of time – say 1 year max)

    Then we can discuss. Why are the camps locked?

    Locked because there is a requirement to curtail movement to and from camp due to various reasons and the most important being security reasons – for the better of those who are inside and out side of the camp… – let’s discuss

    How are you sure there is no genocide happening?

    My Friend Jeyaram (A Tamil) and many other Tamils are living quite happily and in harmony with all of us without being taken to the camps and killed !!

    FYI – Monsoons are not temporary – it is predicted and has been happening for many thousands of years in the past too – it doesn’t come and go – What happened was a normal rain and not a monsoon – I am sure that the Army personnel there are not duds to let a whole camp flood and in turn let some escape…

  162. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    In your efforts to clarify the “horrible” comparison you made (civilians escaping shelling and getting imprisoned and Mr.Jim Pappa being subjected to travel checkpoints), do not continue to misuse the word “sacrifice”. Agreed that Mr.Jim Pappa on his own did the supreme sacrifice of being subjected to travel checkpoints. I dont think the IDPs really want to sacrifice themselves for the political mileage M R wants to get. You dont enslave others and call them as doing a sacrifice. If so, why are these IDPs who are forced to sacrifice themselves not being celebrated as war heroes? Just like the army day, why dont you celebrate the IDPs day – they have also sacrificed as much as the soldiers have done?

    I only request you not to make rubbish arguments and present a foolish and inhumane picture of yourself.

  163. In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 18, 7:47 A.M., please refrain from personal attacks, whether against me or anyone else in this forum. It's inappropriate.

    I don't agree that the Sri Lankan government has the right to detain the IDPs until the "living conditions" are right for them. Under that line of reasoning, the government could detain people who were moving into a new housing complex, on the basis that their new building wasn't yet ready for them. The rest of your argument is based on an assumption that all the civilians from the war zone are guilty of something. But the government can't assume guilt but must prove it to justify restricting the IDPs' liberty.

  164. Mr. Human !
    Sorry if my language proficiency is not good enough to explain or make clear what I meant !

    I never compared anything or anyone to anything… All I said was that we all have to do our part of Sacrifice for a short term to gain long term benefits.. If you still don’t understand, I am Sorry – but try reading what I said over and over again and you might attain enlightenment someday !!

    Guess you have found another word - “Enslave” – (to make a slave of; reduce to slavery). Again, I doubt whether you really mean it as the IDP’s are kind of living a free life than slave anyone – actually it is the Army personnel, Cooks, Doctors etc. Who are slaving the IDP’s to keep them happy…

    I am sure that we will celebrate 22nd of May in future as a day of Sri Lankan’s and IDP’s (who would be living in their own houses by then) would def. join the fun while some LTTE diaspora will still be crying over spilled milk.

    P.S. I believe in treating rubbish with rubbish by throwing to the garbage bin :) !!

  165. In response to Jim Pappa's comment of Oct. 19, 7:33 A.M., sorry if my earlier comment wasn't clear. The "personal attack" I was referring to was in your earlier comment where you speculated about my behavior in a hypothetical situation. It was derogatory and unwarranted.

    Also, the "real reason" for all the effort to get the Sri Lankan government to release the IDPs isn't the international investigation issue (although that's still an important issue that deserves its own discussion); the "real reason" is one I've repeatedly given – the IDPs are entitled to freedom of movement and the government isn't entitled to detain them simply because there may be LTTE members among them. In my earlier comment, I pointed out a possible connection between two issues – restrictions on access to the IDPs and possible war crimes during the closing stages of the war. I note that the comment from Jim Pappa doesn't disclose a rationale for why such access has to be restricted.

  166. In response to Mango’s comment of Oct. 18, 7:07 P.M., I’d make the following points:
    1. The argument made in the comment essentially is that it was necessary for the 7,000 or more civilians (the estimates as to how many civilians were killed in the final stages of the war vary) to die. The argument is that the only way the government had of preventing future abuses was by defeating the LTTE and by defeating them in the way the government chose to do.
    2. I don’t buy that argument. There were other options available to the government. It didn’t have to kill thousands of civilians.
    3. The fact is, the Sri Lankan government never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict or to try to undercut what support the LTTE had from the Tamil population by showing that the government was prepared to meet some demands for autonomy.
    4. Furthermore, the government could have taken other steps towards the end of the war to minimize civilian casualties, by making greater efforts to avoid attacks against the civilians.
    5. Why keep the IDPs detained in the camps and restrict access to them? You can’t help but think that one of the reasons is because the government doesn’t want the facts of what happened during the closing stages of the war to become known, so they don’t want the IDPs out and able to tell the world what they experienced in the war zone. If this isn’t so, then why not let journalists and aid agencies have unrestricted access to the IDPs?
    6. I don’t want war to return to Sri Lanka. But the treatment of the IDPs by the Sri Lankan government isn’t making that less likely.

  167. In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 18, 7:47 A.M., please refrain from personal attacks, whether against me or anyone else in this forum. It’s inappropriate.

    I don’t agree that the Sri Lankan government has the right to detain the IDPs until the “living conditions” are right for them. Under that line of reasoning, the government could detain people who were moving into a new housing complex, on the basis that their new building wasn’t yet ready for them. The rest of your argument is based on an assumption that all the civilians from the war zone are guilty of something. But the government can’t assume guilt but must prove it to justify restricting the IDPs’ liberty.

  168. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    I reiterate – I am not worried about your english language skills or your slip in expressing what you wanted – I give the benefit of doubt to you on that front – I am worried about your thought processes and the racist underlinings. The fact that travel checkpoints crossed your mind when I was specifically talking of civilians entrapped in the shellings and subsequently in squalid camps is a testimoney to how you view this world. When you view checkpoints as a hindrance in your life that you are willing to face and then juxtapose that scenario with what the IDPS have to endure, you have just blown away even the infinitesimal iota of credibility that people might pay to your comments.

    Dont you think the IDPs would pay everything they can to exchange their position to yours – i.e. subject themselves to checkpoints than face the misery in the camps?

    Also nowhere in the world 1 year is a short term. If you or your mother or father or any of your friends are kept in these camps, would you feel that these people are sacrificing themselves for the nation? Would you meet them across the barbed wire in one of those rare once-a-year visits and tell them – "sorry mother, this is a small sacrifice you have to do. From where I am, I sacrifice for the checkpoint scrutiny. Just wait for a short term of a year mother, all will be fine." Dont you think in those squalid conditions your mother and father will not be there to meet you at the end of her/his one year?

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

  169. Alrightyyyyy !!!

    Jim has finally come up with the real reason behind all these posts and the effort to pressurize the government to release the IDP’s. Still scratching and itching to find out what happened during the final stages of the battle – Gee the government should have allowed the media to be there so that they could earn a buck by showing a war scene to the world immaterial of the hazel the army has to go through in protecting the journalists :) !!

    As per your previous post – You have mentioned several times before that there were other options to defeat LTTE , but not put on table what the options are… See, the army could be filled up with fools who would not know any other way and some insight would have been of great help !

    I am sorry my friend I also have to disagree with you when you say the government did not sought out any other political solution – What did Hon. Ranil Wickramasinghe do ?? and what was that in return the LTTE do? Killed a world renowned minster and shut down a water way from a tank so that the farmers didn’t get water.. This is where it all began again if I may remind you – don’t say that the government didn’t stick to a political solution – by now we have realized (after several such settlements) that there is no way that you could settle anything in a decent manner with a Terrorist group…

    Jim, the government did everything to the max to prevent civilian targets – it was the LTTE that used them as shields and killed those who tried to escape – the more the army would have delayed the rescue, more civilians would have been killed by the LTTE…

    None of us want War to return to Sri Lanka – that’s why it was stopped the best way possible..

    As for the second comment,

    I am not attacking any one personally – I was told to be a government agent just because I speak my mind, hence, I was wondering whether the others were LTTE supporters… It is a right assumption given how I was labeled right ??

    Not a single IDP is guilty of anything until proven – But we all know for a fact that there are LTTE guys hiding among the IDP’s. They will have to be freed only after rehab.

    FYI, 258 former LTTE child soldiers were given admission to Colombo schools yesterday – So do not tell that the government doesn’t put in an effort not the efforts are in vain – it’s a crime to lie on sensitive issues. As much as you tell me that I don’t know stuff, you do not have facts either – you are acting up on information you get as I would on what I get.. I get from various sources to and for the government. What about you ??

  170. Dear Jim,

    I'll address each of your points in turn.
    1. The argument made in the comment essentially is that it was necessary for the 7,000 or more civilians (the estimates as to how many civilians were killed in the final stages of the war vary) to die. The argument is that the only way the government had of preventing future abuses was by defeating the LTTE and by defeating them in the way the government chose to do.

    Deeply regrettable as their deaths are, the civilians were being used by the LTTE to shield themselves from attack by the SLA. I remind you yet again, that their deaths are directly attributable to the LTTE. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    2. I don’t buy that argument. There were other options available to the government. It didn’t have to kill thousands of civilians.
    Whatother options were there other than to destroy the LTTE? SLA didn't deliberately set out to kill thousands of civilians. The LTTE deliberately set out put thousands of civilians in harm's way by using them as hostages.

    Peace talks? Negotiations? I find your stance completely and utterly unrealistic given the LTTE's prior proven behaviour. Remember, snakes bite, scorpions sting the LTTE breaks ceasefires. Its an immutable law of nature. Here's just one example (amongst many) of the LTTE stance regarding 'peace talks'.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/65248

    During the final stage of the war the LTTE would've promised to Quakers if that would've enabled them to escape to fight another day. These aren't my suppositions, but the exact strategy employed by VP to escape defeat, as related by the surviving senior cadres.

    I'd love to see proof of your theory that there were other options and show any demonstrable instances of the LTTE willing to compromise or negotiate.

    I'd take it even further and prove the Utilitarian point of view. Let's assume unending war in SL with at least another 2-3,00 violent deaths per annum. Had they not been crushed with the attendant civilian death toll (3,000 to 7,000) the LTTE would've survived for at least another decade and provided us with another 30,000 SL corpses & crippled civilians and combatants.

    You in the Int'l HR community may be willing to countenance that kind of slow-burn death toll, but I'm glad that the SL population, through their wholehearted support for finally finishing this damned war, didn't.

    3. The fact is, the Sri Lankan government never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict or to try to undercut what support the LTTE had from the Tamil population by showing that the government was prepared to meet some demands for autonomy.
    Jim, it simply isn't true to say that the SL govt "..never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict". After the LTTE had fought the SLA to a standstill, there was a political solution of sorts, but not the separate state demanded by the LTTE. But VP wouldn't settle for anything less than a maximalist separate state position.

    How on earth was the SL govt going to 'undercut' the LTTE's support amongst its' captive population? The LTTE killed hundreds of Tamils seeking a 'moderate' solution. There wasn't the slightest chance of the LTTE allowing any sort of 'undercutting' of their cause in areas under their control. Cutting off your head and sticking it on a pole was the reward on offer to anyone caught trying to 'undercut' the LTTE!'

    Neelan Tiruchelvam, Rajani Thiranagama and Kethesh Loganathan, all of whom tried to find a non-violent, compromise path to the conflict are amongst the best known victims of the LTTE murder squads.

    For those of you with short memories, this account of Tiruchelvam's life and death is well worth reading.

    "He was called a traitor to the Tamil community because he participated in a positive exercise of constitution making instead of rabble rousing like some other Tamil sycophants of the LTTE.

    Few bothered to analyse the package constructively. Despite its shortcomings the GL-Neelan package was the best possible scheme of power sharing to be evolved in post-independence Sri Lanka."
    http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/973

    "4. Furthermore, the government could have taken other steps towards the end of the war to minimize civilian casualties, by making greater efforts to avoid attacks against the civilians."
    Until the LTTE used the Vanni civilians as hostages/shrapnel sponges, civilian casualties attributed to SL govt action was mercifully low. So low that even Taminut was unable to capitalise on them. But beyond a certain point, other than agreeing to a cessation of hostilities from which the LTTE would, yet again, tediously re-emerge to continue their campaign, the SL govt had to finish the war, despite the LTTE's self-acknowledged use of civilian hostages to delay, stall or stop the final offensive.

    5. Why keep the IDPs detained in the camps and restrict access to them? You can’t help but think that one of the reasons is because the government doesn’t want the facts of what happened during the closing stages of the war to become known, so they don’t want the IDPs out and able to tell the world what they experienced in the war zone. If this isn’t so, then why not let journalists and aid agencies have unrestricted access to the IDPs?
    Jim, eventually (hopefully soon) the IDPs will be released back to their normal lives. If the govt wanted to prevent them from talking, surely it'd have been better to kill them all. Aid agencies do have access to the IDP camps. After the proven partiality of certain Western bloc news agencies, I'm not surprised that the SL govt is withholding access to the IPD camps. Channel 4 & the BBC are famous for their pro-LTTE stance. Even more famous than certain INGOs who assisted the LTTE with financial and weapons smuggling expertise.

    I'm glad to say that I personally don't need validation from partial and corrupted Western bloc NGOs, whose disastrous advice SL slavishly followed for far too long. If we'd taken their (and your) advice about how to deal with the LTTE, we'd still be counting the dead and injured , rather than the number of living IDPs.

    But I do agree that SL govt has to provide better media access, if only to silence the most outrageous lies being spread by the LTTE diaspora, who are still dealing with the death of their dream state.

    6. I don’t want war to return to Sri Lanka. But the treatment of the IDPs by the Sri Lankan government isn’t making that less likely.
    The group most fervently pushing for SL to return to war is the LTTE diaspora. Whether they'll actually come back to SL to re-start an insurgency is open to question. I think they prefer to gorge themselves on Big Macs and Western welfare benefits.

    You didn't respond to my previous question about AI working with SL rather than against it, so I'll try again (if you don't mind):
    What are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you'll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

    p.s. I have no issue with derogatory remarks being made about me. None whatsoever. Although I'm not sure whether being labelled a SL govt agent is derogatory or praiseworthy. Just to be sure, if I was, I'd be posting under my real name, so that I could at least collect a productivity bonus and build an even larger Elite Cubicle.

  171. My friend Mawatha,

    The GSP+ story is not yet over. The member states are to vote – hopefully Europe is not fooled by SL at this point of time and does withdraw GSP+ even if it is temporary. That can put a lot of pressure on SL government to release people from camps, with elections early next year and also it would be good for democracy in SL since the people, currently blinded by the triumphalism, will see the stark reality and need for reconciliation for true progress and development. As I said we have to wait for two months to know the true story, though things are moving in the right direction.

    I did not get your comment on Mango and Facebook.

    On Jim Paapa, I have to accept that some of his comments have been extremely obnoxious and lacking of any HR concerns – nothing but vacuous triumphalism and blinding adulation for his Prez at the cost of his own reasoning.

  172. Dear Jim,

    I'll address each of your points in turn.
    1. The argument made in the comment essentially is that it was necessary for the 7,000 or more civilians (the estimates as to how many civilians were killed in the final stages of the war vary) to die. The argument is that the only way the government had of preventing future abuses was by defeating the LTTE and by defeating them in the way the government chose to do.

    Deeply regrettable as their deaths are, the civilians were being used by the LTTE to shield themselves from attack by the SLA. I remind you yet again, that their deaths are directly attributable to the LTTE. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    2. I don’t buy that argument. There were other options available to the government. It didn’t have to kill thousands of civilians.
    Whatother options were there other than to destroy the LTTE? SLA didn't deliberately set out to kill thousands of civilians. The LTTE deliberately set out put thousands of civilians in harm's way by using them as hostages.

    Peace talks? Negotiations? I find your stance completely and utterly unrealistic given the LTTE's prior proven behaviour. Remember, snakes bite, scorpions sting the LTTE breaks ceasefires. Its an immutable law of nature. Here's just one example (amongst many) of the LTTE stance regarding 'peace talks'.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/65248

    During the final stage of the war the LTTE would've promised to Quakers if that would've enabled them to escape to fight another day. These aren't my suppositions, but the exact strategy employed by VP to escape defeat, as related by the surviving senior cadres.

    I'd love to see proof of your theory that there were other options and show any demonstrable instances of the LTTE willing to compromise or negotiate.

    I'd take it even further and prove the Utilitarian point of view. Let's assume unending war in SL with at least another 2-3,00 violent deaths per annum. Had they not been crushed with the attendant civilian death toll (3,000 to 7,000) the LTTE would've survived for at least another decade and provided us with another 30,000 SL corpses & crippled civilians and combatants.

    You in the Int'l HR community may be willing to countenance that kind of slow-burn death toll, but I'm glad that the SL population, through their wholehearted support for finally finishing this damned war, didn't.

    3. The fact is, the Sri Lankan government never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict or to try to undercut what support the LTTE had from the Tamil population by showing that the government was prepared to meet some demands for autonomy.
    Jim, it simply isn't true to say that the SL govt "..never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict". After the LTTE had fought the SLA to a standstill, there was a political solution of sorts, but not the separate state demanded by the LTTE. But VP wouldn't settle for anything less than a maximalist separate state position.

    How on earth was the SL govt going to 'undercut' the LTTE's support amongst its' captive population? The LTTE killed hundreds of Tamils seeking a 'moderate' solution. There wasn't the slightest chance of the LTTE allowing any sort of 'undercutting' of their cause in areas under their control. Cutting off your head and sticking it on a pole was the reward on offer to anyone caught trying to 'undercut' the LTTE!'

    Neelan Tiruchelvam, Rajani Thiranagama and Kethesh Loganathan, all of whom tried to find a non-violent, compromise path to the conflict are amongst the best known victims of the LTTE murder squads.

    For those of you with short memories, this account of Tiruchelvam's life and death is well worth reading.

    "He was called a traitor to the Tamil community because he participated in a positive exercise of constitution making instead of rabble rousing like some other Tamil sycophants of the LTTE.

    Few bothered to analyse the package constructively. Despite its shortcomings the GL-Neelan package was the best possible scheme of power sharing to be evolved in post-independence Sri Lanka."
    http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/973

    "4. Furthermore, the government could have taken other steps towards the end of the war to minimize civilian casualties, by making greater efforts to avoid attacks against the civilians."
    Until the LTTE used the Vanni civilians as hostages/shrapnel sponges, civilian casualties attributed to SL govt action was mercifully low. So low that even Taminut was unable to capitalise on them. But beyond a certain point, other than agreeing to a cessation of hostilities from which the LTTE would, yet again, tediously re-emerge to continue their campaign, the SL govt had to finish the war, despite the LTTE's self-acknowledged use of civilian hostages to delay, stall or stop the final offensive.

    5. Why keep the IDPs detained in the camps and restrict access to them? You can’t help but think that one of the reasons is because the government doesn’t want the facts of what happened during the closing stages of the war to become known, so they don’t want the IDPs out and able to tell the world what they experienced in the war zone. If this isn’t so, then why not let journalists and aid agencies have unrestricted access to the IDPs?
    Jim, eventually (hopefully soon) the IDPs will be released back to their normal lives. If the govt wanted to prevent them from talking, surely it'd have been better to kill them all. Aid agencies do have access to the IDP camps. After the proven partiality of certain Western bloc news agencies, I'm not surprised that the SL govt is withholding access to the IPD camps. Channel 4 & the BBC are famous for their pro-LTTE stance. Even more famous than certain INGOs who assisted the LTTE with financial and weapons smuggling expertise.

    I'm glad to say that I personally don't need validation from partial and corrupted Western bloc NGOs, whose disastrous advice SL slavishly followed for far too long. If we'd taken their (and your) advice about how to deal with the LTTE, we'd still be counting the dead and injured , rather than the number of living IDPs.

    But I do agree that SL govt has to provide better media access, if only to silence the most outrageous lies being spread by the LTTE diaspora, who are still dealing with the death of their dream state.

    6. I don’t want war to return to Sri Lanka. But the treatment of the IDPs by the Sri Lankan government isn’t making that less likely.
    The group most fervently pushing for SL to return to war is the LTTE diaspora. Whether they'll actually come back to SL to re-start an insurgency is open to question. I think they prefer to gorge themselves on Big Macs and Western welfare benefits.

    You didn't respond to my previous question about AI working with SL rather than against it, so I'll try again (if you don't mind):
    What are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you'll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

    p.s. I have no issue with derogatory remarks being made about me. None whatsoever. Although I'm not sure whether being labelled a SL govt agent is derogatory or praiseworthy. Just to be sure, if I was, I'd be posting under my real name, so that I could at least collect a productivity bonus and build an even larger Elite Cubicle.

  173. Dear Jim,

    I'll address each of your points in turn.
    1. The argument made in the comment essentially is that it was necessary for the 7,000 or more civilians (the estimates as to how many civilians were killed in the final stages of the war vary) to die. The argument is that the only way the government had of preventing future abuses was by defeating the LTTE and by defeating them in the way the government chose to do.

    Deeply regrettable as their deaths are, the civilians were being used by the LTTE to shield themselves from attack by the SLA. I remind you yet again, that their deaths are directly attributable to the LTTE. "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    2. I don’t buy that argument. There were other options available to the government. It didn’t have to kill thousands of civilians.
    Whatother options were there other than to destroy the LTTE? SLA didn't deliberately set out to kill thousands of civilians. The LTTE deliberately set out put thousands of civilians in harm's way by using them as hostages.

    Peace talks? Negotiations? I find your stance completely and utterly unrealistic given the LTTE's prior proven behaviour. Remember, snakes bite, scorpions sting the LTTE breaks ceasefires. Its an immutable law of nature. Here's just one example (amongst many) of the LTTE stance regarding 'peace talks'.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/65248

    During the final stage of the war the LTTE would've promised to Quakers if that would've enabled them to escape to fight another day. These aren't my suppositions, but the exact strategy employed by VP to escape defeat, as related by the surviving senior cadres.

    I'd love to see proof of your theory that there were other options and show any demonstrable instances of the LTTE willing to compromise or negotiate.

    I'd take it even further and prove the Utilitarian point of view. Let's assume unending war in SL with at least another 2-3,00 violent deaths per annum. Had they not been crushed with the attendant civilian death toll (3,000 to 7,000) the LTTE would've survived for at least another decade and provided us with another 30,000 SL corpses & crippled civilians and combatants.

    You in the Int'l HR community may be willing to countenance that kind of slow-burn death toll, but I'm glad that the SL population, through their wholehearted support for finally finishing this damned war, didn't.

    3. The fact is, the Sri Lankan government never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict or to try to undercut what support the LTTE had from the Tamil population by showing that the government was prepared to meet some demands for autonomy.
    Jim, it simply isn't true to say that the SL govt "..never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict". After the LTTE had fought the SLA to a standstill, there was a political solution of sorts, but not the separate state demanded by the LTTE. But VP wouldn't settle for anything less than a maximalist separate state position.

    How on earth was the SL govt going to 'undercut' the LTTE's support amongst its' captive population? The LTTE killed hundreds of Tamils seeking a 'moderate' solution. There wasn't the slightest chance of the LTTE allowing any sort of 'undercutting' of their cause in areas under their control. Cutting off your head and sticking it on a pole was the reward on offer to anyone caught trying to 'undercut' the LTTE!'

    Neelan Tiruchelvam, Rajani Thiranagama and Kethesh Loganathan, all of whom tried to find a non-violent, compromise path to the conflict are amongst the best known victims of the LTTE murder squads.

    For those of you with short memories, this account of Tiruchelvam's life and death is well worth reading.

    "He was called a traitor to the Tamil community because he participated in a positive exercise of constitution making instead of rabble rousing like some other Tamil sycophants of the LTTE.

    Few bothered to analyse the package constructively. Despite its shortcomings the GL-Neelan package was the best possible scheme of power sharing to be evolved in post-independence Sri Lanka."
    http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/973

    "4. Furthermore, the government could have taken other steps towards the end of the war to minimize civilian casualties, by making greater efforts to avoid attacks against the civilians."
    Until the LTTE used the Vanni civilians as hostages/shrapnel sponges, civilian casualties attributed to SL govt action was mercifully low. So low that even Taminut was unable to capitalise on them. But beyond a certain point, other than agreeing to a cessation of hostilities from which the LTTE would, yet again, tediously re-emerge to continue their campaign, the SL govt had to finish the war, despite the LTTE's self-acknowledged use of civilian hostages to delay, stall or stop the final offensive.

    5. Why keep the IDPs detained in the camps and restrict access to them? You can’t help but think that one of the reasons is because the government doesn’t want the facts of what happened during the closing stages of the war to become known, so they don’t want the IDPs out and able to tell the world what they experienced in the war zone. If this isn’t so, then why not let journalists and aid agencies have unrestricted access to the IDPs?
    Jim, eventually (hopefully soon) the IDPs will be released back to their normal lives. If the govt wanted to prevent them from talking, surely it'd have been better to kill them all. Aid agencies do have access to the IDP camps. After the proven partiality of certain Western bloc news agencies, I'm not surprised that the SL govt is withholding access to the IPD camps. Channel 4 & the BBC are famous for their pro-LTTE stance. Even more famous than certain INGOs who assisted the LTTE with financial and weapons smuggling expertise.

    I'm glad to say that I personally don't need validation from partial and corrupted Western bloc NGOs, whose disastrous advice SL slavishly followed for far too long. If we'd taken their (and your) advice about how to deal with the LTTE, we'd still be counting the dead and injured , rather than the number of living IDPs.

    But I do agree that SL govt has to provide better media access, if only to silence the most outrageous lies being spread by the LTTE diaspora, who are still dealing with the death of their dream state.

    6. I don’t want war to return to Sri Lanka. But the treatment of the IDPs by the Sri Lankan government isn’t making that less likely.
    The group most fervently pushing for SL to return to war is the LTTE diaspora. Whether they'll actually come back to SL to re-start an insurgency is open to question. I think they prefer to gorge themselves on Big Macs and Western welfare benefits.

    You didn't respond to my previous question about AI working with SL rather than against it, so I'll try again (if you don't mind):
    What are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you'll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

    p.s. I have no issue with derogatory remarks being made about me. None whatsoever. Although I'm not sure whether being labelled a SL govt agent is derogatory or praiseworthy. Just to be sure, if I was, I'd be posting under my real name, so that I could at least collect a productivity bonus and build an even larger Elite Cubicle.

  174. According to Jim Pappa the IDPs are happy go lucky in the concentration camps in Vavunia, Sri Lanka.

    What is wrong with these people? It like some broken tape recorder for ever stuck in repeat.

    It seems to me that they are very well brainwashed by King Mahinda’s biased media.

    I always wonder, what if Jim Pappa’s beloved, his near and dear: his mother, father, brothers or sisters were illegally interned there like the 300 000 innocent civilians who continue to be forcibly held in horrendous conditions in abysmal concentration camps.

    Would Jim Papa’s cold and unfeeling broken tape recorder continue to play this cruel, indifferent and callous racist song?

    The tyranny and this appalling situation in Sri Lanka have continued for days, weeks, months. Yet the Sri Lanka President Rajapakse said in his speech on 19 May, “….In the past several decades those (Tamils) people wrought to development. I shall give all of that to those people. I accept that responsibility.”

    What a JOKE!!!!!

    These words have no meaning other than for international publicity. It is shameful that a government, which claims to respect democracy, exists in 21st century and has these dreadful Nazi-like concentration camps!!

    Although the war is over, the Tamils are yet to get rid of their plights. The ground realities do not show that the Sri Lankan government is making any pragmatic effort to offer genuine human rights for the Tamils, rather it is rejecting their genuine demands and further is trying to colonize Tamil homeland with Sinhalese.
    Instead of accepting Tamils’ legitimate demands for the sake of lasting peace, the Sinhala government is engaged in how it can make Tamils more subservient to them.

    Humanitarian Human,
    Hello friend !

    When I read comments by some Sri Lankan Propagandists here it feels like a sad indictment of the state of the SL media.

    The circle of lackeys that surrounds the Lankan Government and the Brothers, who dream up the crackpot schemes (HAPPY IDPs, and no racism) and must have their work cut out for them.

    Soon they will be trying to convince us and the whole world that Sri Lanka at doorstep of some gems of a good governance courtesy of the Sri Lankan Dear Leader/ King

    The good news:

    GPS+ is not to be for Sri Lanka!!

    The European Commission is to recommend withdrawing trade benefits from Sri Lanka over alleged human rights abuses in the last stages of the civil war against the Tamil Tigers.

    Cutting off the benefits would add about 6 per cent to the cost of products, forcing many retailers to buy from cheaper producers such as China, India and Bangladesh.

    The Sri Lankan garment industry accounts for 10 per cent of GDP, employs about 250,000 people and recorded exports of $1.4 billion (£856 million).

    The EU grants the Generalised System of Preferences Plus (GSP+), to help developing countries to boost their economies while improving human rights and labour standards.

    Sri Lanka is the only country in Asia to benefit from GSP+, which obliges beneficiaries to adhere to 27 international rights agreements.

    The EU has investigated whether Sri Lanka violated the UN Convention against Torture, UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    In August it completed a report, which described a culture of “complete or virtually complete impunity in Sri Lanka”, citing police torture, abductions of journalists and uninvestigated disappearances.

    Humanitarian Human, you are still thinking Mango is the elitist. He is not. Come to visit. The news about our favorite elitist is quite funny. I’m also on a Facebook

  175. In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 19, 7:33 A.M., sorry if my earlier comment wasn’t clear. The “personal attack” I was referring to was in your earlier comment where you speculated about my behavior in a hypothetical situation. It was derogatory and unwarranted.

    Also, the “real reason” for all the effort to get the Sri Lankan government to release the IDPs isn’t the international investigation issue (although that’s still an important issue that deserves its own discussion); the “real reason” is one I’ve repeatedly given – the IDPs are entitled to freedom of movement and the government isn’t entitled to detain them simply because there may be LTTE members among them. In my earlier comment, I pointed out a possible connection between two issues – restrictions on access to the IDPs and possible war crimes during the closing stages of the war. I note that the comment from Jim Pappa doesn’t disclose a rationale for why such access has to be restricted.

  176. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war. Well, nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly hilarious, ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done. Although to be fair, the UK AI drone unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI thought police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  177. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war.

    Nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done.

    Although to be fair, the UK AI activist unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit.

    I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI Thought Police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  178. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war. Well, nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly hilarious, ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done. Although to be fair, the UK AI drone unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI thought police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  179. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war. Well, nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly hilarious, ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done. Although to be fair, the UK AI drone unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI thought police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  180. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war.

    Nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done.

    Although to be fair, the UK AI activist unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit.

    I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI Thought Police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  181. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I'd always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other 'concerned' Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war.

    Nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to "advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically."

    Here are my favourite parts of AI's love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    "……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries' (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno."

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4

    Just replace 'Taliban' with 'LTTE' and this is a carbon copy of what Jim's been advocating that SL should do and should've done.

    Although to be fair, the UK AI activist unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit.

    I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI Thought Police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  182. Mawatham & Humanitarian,

    So, its back to the same-old game, no? Concentration camps, Nazis, racists and of course the ever present multiplicity of genocides. Mawatham, you've lost because you've invoked Godwin's Law. Look it up.

    You wrote so accurately, "Human beings do not need to have boundaries". I agree 100%. But I don't think the LTTE would agree with you. Why not check with Mawatham? I'm certain he knows exactly where the boundaries of his imaginary LTTE state lay. That's why the de-facto state of Eelam was finally dismantled. Its boundaries were an affront to the overwhelming majority of all Sri Lankans, irrespective of their language.

    So finally we agree that for the LTTE to displace any civilian whatever their so-called ethnicity was a bad thing. It was a long time coming, but worth it.

    I'm still waiting for proof of my alleged racism and hardcore Sinhala chauvinism when I've always and consistently maintained a policy of equality for all SL citizens, whatever their language or ethnicity. My sarcasm regarding your liberal use of genocide is obvious. There is no genocide in SL. If there was or had been, there wouldn't be any Tamils left on the Island. It now appears that my comments are unfortunately being genocided by unhappy Eelamists. Should I complain to the UNHCR or AI?

    Tell us also, how an economic boycott of SL would help the war-weary Tamil peoples of the North & East? Will the LTTE supporting diaspora step up and send remittances to them? Or would you rather that they lived in abject misery and face permanent joblessness?

    p.s. how do I apply for this position of 'paid govt slave'? You seem to know an awful lot about it. You seem to confuse my approval of the utter destruction of the military capability of the LTTE, with being a slavish adherent of govt policy whatever its' merits or demerits. Most of us are capable of distinguishing between those two positions.

  183. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    I reiterate – I am not worried about your english language skills or your slip in expressing what you wanted – I give the benefit of doubt to you on that front – I am worried about your thought processes and the racist underlinings. The fact that travel checkpoints crossed your mind when I was specifically talking of civilians entrapped in the shellings and subsequently in squalid camps is a testimoney to how you view this world. When you view checkpoints as a hindrance in your life that you are willing to face and then juxtapose that scenario with what the IDPS have to endure, you have just blown away even the infinitesimal iota of credibility that people might pay to your comments.

    Dont you think the IDPs would pay everything they can to exchange their position to yours – i.e. subject themselves to checkpoints than face the misery in the camps?

    Also nowhere in the world 1 year is a short term. If you or your mother or father or any of your friends are kept in these camps, would you feel that these people are sacrificing themselves for the nation? Would you meet them across the barbed wire in one of those rare once-a-year visits and tell them – “sorry mother, this is a small sacrifice you have to do. From where I am, I sacrifice for the checkpoint scrutiny. Just wait for a short term of a year mother, all will be fine.” Dont you think in those squalid conditions your mother and father will not be there to meet you at the end of her/his one year?

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

  184. My friend Mawatha,

    The GSP+ story is not yet over. The member states are to vote – hopefully Europe is not fooled by SL at this point of time and does withdraw GSP+ even if it is temporary. That can put a lot of pressure on SL government to release people from camps, with elections early next year and also it would be good for democracy in SL since the people, currently blinded by the triumphalism, will see the stark reality and need for reconciliation for true progress and development. As I said we have to wait for two months to know the true story, though things are moving in the right direction.

    I did not get your comment on Mango and Facebook.

    On Jim Paapa, I have to accept that some of his comments have been extremely obnoxious and lacking of any HR concerns – nothing but vacuous triumphalism and blinding adulation for his Prez at the cost of his own reasoning.

  185. In response to Mango2's comment of Oct. 19 1:36 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The argument made in the comment is one of "necessity" – it was "necessary" to militarily defeat the LTTE and it was "necessary" to do so in the way that the government did.
    2. It's not surprising that those committing human rights abuses attempt to defend themselves by making this argument.
    3. Note that the comment doesn't deny that the government killed thousands of civilians toward the end of the war. Instead, all blame is shifted to the LTTE on the basis of the "necessity" argument.
    4. Let's be clear. AI didn't oppose the war. We just said that in conducting the war, the government had to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they're already a party to.
    5. The comment's argument is that the government didn't have to abide by the Geneva Conventions since there was no other way to defeat the LTTE.
    6. It's easy to make predictions that support your argument – i.e., "if the government had tried any other option, it wouldn't have worked and more people would have died." That's not proof; that's just a self-serving statement. I could just as easily argue that if the government had tried, it would have eventually worked, wearing down the LTTE and inducing defections (and of course there never would be any defections from the LTTE, but I suppose Karuna's revolt in the east is different?).
    7. I knew I was potentially opening an endless debate by referring to the lack of any political solution being offered by the Sri Lankan government to the ethnic conflict. There isn't time or space enough here to fully debate that. I stand by my conclusion. The example offered in the comment to disprove my conclusion was an interim arrangement that didn't solve the political issues and that both the LTTE and then the government abandoned. If Mango wishes to further pursue this argument, we'll need to do so elsewhere.
    8. Aid agencies' access to the camps is limited; my understanding is that they have to sign an agreement with the government promising not to talk publicly about conditions in the camps. Arguing that journalists shouldn't be allowed in to the camps because they're biased seems rather weak; if the facts support the government's case, why not let the world see it?

  186. Dear Jim,

    I’ll address each of your points in turn.
    1. The argument made in the comment essentially is that it was necessary for the 7,000 or more civilians (the estimates as to how many civilians were killed in the final stages of the war vary) to die. The argument is that the only way the government had of preventing future abuses was by defeating the LTTE and by defeating them in the way the government chose to do.

    Deeply regrettable as their deaths are, the civilians were being used by the LTTE to shield themselves from attack by the SLA. I remind you yet again, that their deaths are directly attributable to the LTTE. “The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.

    2. I don’t buy that argument. There were other options available to the government. It didn’t have to kill thousands of civilians.
    Whatother options were there other than to destroy the LTTE? SLA didn’t deliberately set out to kill thousands of civilians. The LTTE deliberately set out put thousands of civilians in harm’s way by using them as hostages.

    Peace talks? Negotiations? I find your stance completely and utterly unrealistic given the LTTE’s prior proven behaviour. Remember, snakes bite, scorpions sting the LTTE breaks ceasefires. Its an immutable law of nature. Here’s just one example (amongst many) of the LTTE stance regarding ‘peace talks’.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6524869.stm

    During the final stage of the war the LTTE would’ve promised to Quakers if that would’ve enabled them to escape to fight another day. These aren’t my suppositions, but the exact strategy employed by VP to escape defeat, as related by the surviving senior cadres.

    I’d love to see proof of your theory that there were other options and show any demonstrable instances of the LTTE willing to compromise or negotiate.

    I’d take it even further and prove the Utilitarian point of view. Let’s assume unending war in SL with at least another 2-3,00 violent deaths per annum. Had they not been crushed with the attendant civilian death toll (3,000 to 7,000) the LTTE would’ve survived for at least another decade and provided us with another 30,000 SL corpses & crippled civilians and combatants.

    You in the Int’l HR community may be willing to countenance that kind of slow-burn death toll, but I’m glad that the SL population, through their wholehearted support for finally finishing this damned war, didn’t.

    3. The fact is, the Sri Lankan government never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict or to try to undercut what support the LTTE had from the Tamil population by showing that the government was prepared to meet some demands for autonomy.
    Jim, it simply isn’t true to say that the SL govt “..never sought a political solution to the ethnic conflict”. After the LTTE had fought the SLA to a standstill, there was a political solution of sorts, but not the separate state demanded by the LTTE. But VP wouldn’t settle for anything less than a maximalist separate state position.

    How on earth was the SL govt going to ‘undercut’ the LTTE’s support amongst its’ captive population? The LTTE killed hundreds of Tamils seeking a ‘moderate’ solution. There wasn’t the slightest chance of the LTTE allowing any sort of ‘undercutting’ of their cause in areas under their control. Cutting off your head and sticking it on a pole was the reward on offer to anyone caught trying to ‘undercut’ the LTTE!’

    Neelan Tiruchelvam, Rajani Thiranagama and Kethesh Loganathan, all of whom tried to find a non-violent, compromise path to the conflict are amongst the best known victims of the LTTE murder squads.

    For those of you with short memories, this account of Tiruchelvam’s life and death is well worth reading.

    “He was called a traitor to the Tamil community because he participated in a positive exercise of constitution making instead of rabble rousing like some other Tamil sycophants of the LTTE.

    Few bothered to analyse the package constructively. Despite its shortcomings the GL-Neelan package was the best possible scheme of power sharing to be evolved in post-independence Sri Lanka.”

    http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/973

    “4. Furthermore, the government could have taken other steps towards the end of the war to minimize civilian casualties, by making greater efforts to avoid attacks against the civilians.”
    Until the LTTE used the Vanni civilians as hostages/shrapnel sponges, civilian casualties attributed to SL govt action was mercifully low. So low that even Taminut was unable to capitalise on them. But beyond a certain point, other than agreeing to a cessation of hostilities from which the LTTE would, yet again, tediously re-emerge to continue their campaign, the SL govt had to finish the war, despite the LTTE’s self-acknowledged use of civilian hostages to delay, stall or stop the final offensive.

    5. Why keep the IDPs detained in the camps and restrict access to them? You can’t help but think that one of the reasons is because the government doesn’t want the facts of what happened during the closing stages of the war to become known, so they don’t want the IDPs out and able to tell the world what they experienced in the war zone. If this isn’t so, then why not let journalists and aid agencies have unrestricted access to the IDPs?
    Jim, eventually (hopefully soon) the IDPs will be released back to their normal lives. If the govt wanted to prevent them from talking, surely it’d have been better to kill them all. Aid agencies do have access to the IDP camps. After the proven partiality of certain Western bloc news agencies, I’m not surprised that the SL govt is withholding access to the IPD camps. Channel 4 & the BBC are famous for their pro-LTTE stance. Even more famous than certain INGOs who assisted the LTTE with financial and weapons smuggling expertise.

    I’m glad to say that I personally don’t need validation from partial and corrupted Western bloc NGOs, whose disastrous advice SL slavishly followed for far too long. If we’d taken their (and your) advice about how to deal with the LTTE, we’d still be counting the dead and injured , rather than the number of living IDPs.

    But I do agree that SL govt has to provide better media access, if only to silence the most outrageous lies being spread by the LTTE diaspora, who are still dealing with the death of their dream state.

    6. I don’t want war to return to Sri Lanka. But the treatment of the IDPs by the Sri Lankan government isn’t making that less likely.
    The group most fervently pushing for SL to return to war is the LTTE diaspora. Whether they’ll actually come back to SL to re-start an insurgency is open to question. I think they prefer to gorge themselves on Big Macs and Western welfare benefits.

    You didn’t respond to my previous question about AI working with SL rather than against it, so I’ll try again (if you don’t mind):
    What are you doing to work with the SL govt, instead of working as part of the coalition against them? If Eelam War 4 has shown anything, it is that you’ll get more (from the SL govt) by co-operation rather than by confrontation. Especially when the confrontation is lead by countries and INGOs who were at the forefront of trying to rescue the LTTE leadership (by pressuring for a ceasefire) from meeting their well-deserved fate on the Eastern lagoon.

    p.s. I have no issue with derogatory remarks being made about me. None whatsoever. Although I’m not sure whether being labelled a SL govt agent is derogatory or praiseworthy. Just to be sure, if I was, I’d be posting under my real name, so that I could at least collect a productivity bonus and build an even larger Elite Cubicle.

  187. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I’d always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other ‘concerned’ Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war. Well, nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly hilarious, ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to “advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically.”

    Here are my favourite parts of AI’s love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    “……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries’ (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno.”

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4181

    Just replace ‘Taliban’ with ‘LTTE’ and this is a carbon copy of what Jim’s been advocating that SL should do and should’ve done. Although to be fair, the UK AI drone unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI thought police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  188. Amnesty International – Mad, Bad or just Dangerous to Know?

    Jim,

    I’d always suspected that for the SL govt to follow the dictates and advice of AI or any other ‘concerned’ Western bloc NGO on the conduct of the Eelam Wars would only lead SL into unending bloodshed and war.

    Nothing better demonstrates my point than this utterly ludicrous and completely bonkers piece from one of your HR comrades in UK AI, advising the Pakistani Taliban on how to “advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically.”

    Here are my favourite parts of AI’s love letter to the Pakistani Taliban.

    “……. Prior to these latest development, there were series of bombblast and suicide explosion scattered around Pakistan. And all these suicide attacks and bomb explosion were either confirmed by the Taliban as their handiwork or traced to them by independent sources.

    It pains me that the Taliban employed these series of bomb explosion to press home their demands when there were other peaceful means to achieve their objectives. If they so much believe in their vision and mission, they should persuade and lobby the Pakistani and Afghan people to form a party and thereafter, contest and win their elections. They can then advance to pursue developments and their philosophy diplomatically. All these bloodshed, threat and horrors they are spreading like wildfire do not make sense or give them a good reputation.

    After winning the respective countries’ (Pakistan and Afghanistan) election, they can advance to win their Muslim and Arab neighbours/brethren. If they can win Pakistani and Afghanistan elections fairly and win their Arab or Muslim neighbours collectively, what stops them from advancing to the United Nations Assembly to pursue their goals, dreams, philosophy and practical pursuit….

    These bloodshed are unacceptable and unjustifiable.No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit. The bloodshed is increasing tremoudously as the Pakistani government has stepped up its offensive.

    Please, Taliban, change your approach to the achievement of your philosophy and dreams. Give peace a chance. Adopt peaceful and non-violent means in your drives and halt the present menace plaguing the region.

    However, the Pakistani government should beware of war crimes. It has to do everything to safeguard the lives of flleing citizens and refugees. It has to provide for them. Rescue and save the homeless, refugees, destitute and every innocent soul in the hotbed or fleeing from the burning inferno.”

    You can read the rest here: http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_entry.asp?eid=4181

    Just replace ‘Taliban’ with ‘LTTE’ and this is a carbon copy of what Jim’s been advocating that SL should do and should’ve done.

    Although to be fair, the UK AI activist unbelievably manages to admit that No sovereign government will sit down and watch its innocent citizens been horribly killed in the guise of philosophical pursuit.

    I wonder whether he/she will be be disciplined by the AI Thought Police for admitting that rather obvious point.

    As we all know, the LTTE laboured heroically for 30+ years (with the active assistance of Western bloc NGOs) to seek peaceful means to achieve their objectives.

  189. Mawatham & Humanitarian,

    So, its back to the same-old game, no? Concentration camps, Nazis, racists and of course the ever present multiplicity of genocides. Mawatham, you’ve lost because you’ve invoked Godwin’s Law. Look it up.

    You wrote so accurately, “Human beings do not need to have boundaries”. I agree 100%. But I don’t think the LTTE would agree with you. Why not check with Mawatham? I’m certain he knows exactly where the boundaries of his imaginary LTTE state lay. That’s why the de-facto state of Eelam was finally dismantled. Its boundaries were an affront to the overwhelming majority of all Sri Lankans, irrespective of their language.

    So finally we agree that for the LTTE to displace any civilian whatever their so-called ethnicity was a bad thing. It was a long time coming, but worth it.

    I’m still waiting for proof of my alleged racism and hardcore Sinhala chauvinism when I’ve always and consistently maintained a policy of equality for all SL citizens, whatever their language or ethnicity. My sarcasm regarding your liberal use of genocide is obvious. There is no genocide in SL. If there was or had been, there wouldn’t be any Tamils left on the Island. It now appears that my comments are unfortunately being genocided by unhappy Eelamists. Should I complain to the UNHCR or AI?

    Tell us also, how an economic boycott of SL would help the war-weary Tamil peoples of the North & East? Will the LTTE supporting diaspora step up and send remittances to them? Or would you rather that they lived in abject misery and face permanent joblessness?

    p.s. how do I apply for this position of ‘paid govt slave’? You seem to know an awful lot about it. You seem to confuse my approval of the utter destruction of the military capability of the LTTE, with being a slavish adherent of govt policy whatever its’ merits or demerits. Most of us are capable of distinguishing between those two positions.

  190. Enough is enough. It is well past time to release civilians detained in the camps. Sri Lanka’s international friends should tell the government that they will not accept any more broken promises.
    .Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Government Breaks Promises That Displaced Can Go Home http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/19/sri-lanka-g

    Sri lankan leaders are still vomiting worms of lies. Last 61 years, these leaders broke the promises given to Tamils. Unlock the Camps

  191. Enough is enough. It is well past time to release civilians detained in the camps. Sri Lanka’s international friends should tell the government that they will not accept any more broken promises.
    .Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Government Breaks Promises That Displaced Can Go Home http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/19/sri-lanka-g

    Sri lankan leaders are still vomiting worms of lies. Last 61 years, these leaders broke the promises given to Tamils. Unlock the Camps

  192. Enough is enough. It is well past time to release civilians detained in the camps. Sri Lanka’s international friends should tell the government that they will not accept any more broken promises.
    .Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Government Breaks Promises That Displaced Can Go Home http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/19/sri-lanka-g

    Sri lankan leaders are still vomiting worms of lies. Last 61 years, these leaders broke the promises given to Tamils. Unlock the Camps

  193. In response to Mango2′s comment of Oct. 19 1:36 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The argument made in the comment is one of “necessity” – it was “necessary” to militarily defeat the LTTE and it was “necessary” to do so in the way that the government did.
    2. It’s not surprising that those committing human rights abuses attempt to defend themselves by making this argument.
    3. Note that the comment doesn’t deny that the government killed thousands of civilians toward the end of the war. Instead, all blame is shifted to the LTTE on the basis of the “necessity” argument.
    4. Let’s be clear. AI didn’t oppose the war. We just said that in conducting the war, the government had to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they’re already a party to.
    5. The comment’s argument is that the government didn’t have to abide by the Geneva Conventions since there was no other way to defeat the LTTE.
    6. It’s easy to make predictions that support your argument – i.e., “if the government had tried any other option, it wouldn’t have worked and more people would have died.” That’s not proof; that’s just a self-serving statement. I could just as easily argue that if the government had tried, it would have eventually worked, wearing down the LTTE and inducing defections (and of course there never would be any defections from the LTTE, but I suppose Karuna’s revolt in the east is different?).
    7. I knew I was potentially opening an endless debate by referring to the lack of any political solution being offered by the Sri Lankan government to the ethnic conflict. There isn’t time or space enough here to fully debate that. I stand by my conclusion. The example offered in the comment to disprove my conclusion was an interim arrangement that didn’t solve the political issues and that both the LTTE and then the government abandoned. If Mango wishes to further pursue this argument, we’ll need to do so elsewhere.
    8. Aid agencies’ access to the camps is limited; my understanding is that they have to sign an agreement with the government promising not to talk publicly about conditions in the camps. Arguing that journalists shouldn’t be allowed in to the camps because they’re biased seems rather weak; if the facts support the government’s case, why not let the world see it?

  194. Here We go Again !!

    Silva Mahaththaya !!

    According to Jim Pappa the IDPs are happy go lucky in the concentration camps in Vavunia, Sri Lanka.

    Wow – who said this and when ?? Dear Silva – please quote me on this
    How can they be happy in side a camp with limited facilities ?? If you go back and read my previous posts, you would obviously see that I am for releasing the IDP's. What I say is that it cannot be done in a haphazard manner in a rush given the situations explained before and it needs time. And during this period we all will have to suffer in our own ways, but it is necessary for us to go through this short term suffering to get the long term benefit off it…

    What is wrong with these people? It like some broken tape recorder for ever stuck in repeat. – Same Question – Same Answer

    I always wonder, what if Jim Pappa’s beloved, his near and dear: his mother, father, brothers or sisters were illegally interned there like the 300 000 innocent civilians who continue to be forcibly held in horrendous conditions in abysmal concentration camps. – I would try my best to support the government and have talks with the government to get them released As Soon As Possible – I wouldn't pressure the government unduly as it would do nothing but increase the detention time. Proper talks could ensure the quick release of IDP's..

    The tyranny and this appalling situation in Sri Lanka have continued for days, weeks, months. Yet the Sri Lanka President Rajapakse said in his speech on 19 May, “….In the past several decades those (Tamils) people wrought to development. I shall give all of that to those people. I accept that responsibility.”

    What a JOKE!!!!!

    This I cannot believe you say !! – Common mann !! Help the guy out if he is willing to do it.. Don't bark at him … I know for a fact that a lot of development is happening in these areas to ensure the people go back to decent living conditions…

    Although the war is over, the Tamils are yet to get rid of their plights. The ground realities do not show that the Sri Lankan government is making any pragmatic effort to offer genuine human rights for the Tamils, rather it is rejecting their genuine demands and further is trying to colonize Tamil homeland with Sinhalese.
    Instead of accepting Tamils’ legitimate demands for the sake of lasting peace, the Sinhala government is engaged in how it can make Tamils more subservient to them.

    Silva, You and I both know that a 30 year old wound cannot be cured overnight. In my opinion, it would need more than 30 years for things to settle down – i.e. only if all parties are willing to turn it around and support the cause.. Also we should agree that there were Singhala and Muslim population living in these areas before LTTE went on a killing spree and chased them off.. why not settle them too – after all they have been in IDP camps for more than 20 years – I doubt whether you would comment on them….

    The good news:

    GPS+ is not to be for Sri Lanka!!

    Hmmm.. Looks like you want this to happen for vengeance than for any other reason – Bad News is that you are forgetting the fact that your own people whom you are trying to protect will also get effected big time due to the same reason… It will be nobody's gain !!

  195. Mr.Mango,

    Godwin's law is not invoked when you talk of Nazis, Hitler or MR in particular.

    On boundaries, let me make this clear – I said human right concerns have no boundaries – that was the context – however countries do have boundaries that are human drawn and get drawn and redrawn over the course of history due to geo-political reasons.

    On GSP+ removal, I explained the need for sanctions and why it is good for SL overall – please read it.

  196. Jim MD,

    In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 19, 7:33 A.M., sorry if my earlier comment wasn’t clear. The “personal attack” I was referring to was in your earlier comment where you speculated about my behavior in a hypothetical situation. It was derogatory and unwarranted.

    Extremely sorry you felt that way – didn't mean it in that sense…

    the IDPs are entitled to freedom of movement and the government isn’t entitled to detain them simply because there may be LTTE members among them. – one of the differences between us is that I say it is necessary and you say it is not… I say that it is necessary given the gravity of the whole issue..


    In my earlier comment, I pointed out a possible connection between two issues – restrictions on access to the IDPs and possible war crimes during the closing stages of the war. I note that the comment from Jim Pappa doesn’t disclose a rationale for why such access has to be restricted.

    I am not a government spokes person, nor have any insight to what their motives are – but, I personally feel that at least selected out side parties (not limited only to UN and Tamilnadu government etc.) should be allowed. The main reason would be that the NGO's who operated formerly supported the LTTE big time and the government has lost trust in some of the parties that come in good faith – you can't blame the government for this either, but yet, I agree that others should be able to visit the IDP's…

    As for the other point, I think I made it clear that, we all know that there are LTTE guys in the camps with the civilians yet and the government will probably not take a chance in sending them out and creating chaos again.

    It needs to be done Jim – IDP's needs to be sent home – I think we all agree on it – but it needs time – the bigger picture is much bigger than you think.. we are talking about the future of a whole nation. They suffered for 30 years… another year or two of suffering for all of us, we will be back – I am willing to do that sacrifice for our own benefit – What I need is your support !!

  197. Mr. Humane !!

    I reiterate – I am not worried about your english language skills or your slip in expressing what you wanted – I give the benefit of doubt to you on that front – I am worried about your thought processes and the racist underlinings. The fact that travel checkpoints crossed your mind when I was specifically talking of civilians entrapped in the shellings and subsequently in squalid camps is a testimoney to how you view this world. When you view checkpoints as a hindrance in your life that you are willing to face and then juxtapose that scenario with what the IDPS have to endure, you have just blown away even the infinitesimal iota of credibility that people might pay to your comments.

    Well, it is obvious that I have been effected for 30 years of my life by the war too, Hence many things could cross my mind at this point of time… I am still not a racist – thank me for that – I live quite in harmony with a load of friends from all ethnic groups.. I am only sorry that I couldn't get the point of "We all are suffering in our own Ways" comment in to your head…

    Dont you think the IDPs would pay everything they can to exchange their position to yours – i.e. subject themselves to checkpoints than face the misery in the camps? I would not doubt this for a millisecond !!

    Also nowhere in the world 1 year is a short term.
    What do you think 30 years were? Thrown a small stone to puddle and see how long it takes to settle the mud… Throw a bigger one.. as you go you would see, the larger the stone, the longer the time frame to settle down… !!

    If you or your mother or father or any of your friends are kept in these camps, would you feel that these people are sacrificing themselves for the nation? Would you meet them across the barbed wire in one of those rare once-a-year visits and tell them – “sorry mother, this is a small sacrifice you have to do. From where I am, I sacrifice for the checkpoint scrutiny. Just wait for a short term of a year mother, all will be fine.” Dont you think in those squalid conditions your mother and father will not be there to meet you at the end of her/his one year?

    I know that it is not as easy as I say it and by no means I am saying that they are having a gala time at the camps… As I mentioned before, my approach would be to work with the government to get them out that to work against the government… But, at the same time, we need to understand the reality….

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

    Humane – I am with you in getting them out of there ASAP, but we all need to understand that we cannot have the bigger issue we had before – where do we draw the line ??

  198. Mr. Human !!

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

    Dude !! I am in the position you are talking of to a certain extent !! People living in your part of the world would not understand it either !

    Please do go ahead and keep reading the papers – my comments may be important for those who do not read the papers… I actually don't see a reason to use my brains on those with tunnel vision, rather use it to teach my puppy how to roll over and beg… But I trust that there are a few who would see the bigger picture – if one such person would read and understand, I would be satisfied… !

    Sarcasm is always miserable and ugly – especially when you are at the receiving end !! :( :( :(

  199. Mr.Jim Pappa,

    I would try my best to support the government and have talks with the government to get them released As Soon As Possible – I wouldn’t pressure the government unduly as it would do nothing but increase the detention time. Proper talks could ensure the quick release of IDP’s..

    I am getting goosepimples all over my body. When your mother is suffering in the campsl you will not pressure the government. What a son your mother has and what a patriotic citizen!

    I think there are few in my life whom I have encountered who have done sacrifices of subjecting themselves to travel checkpoints and "verbally offering" his mother to suffer in the camps while you avoid pressurizing the government – all this for the sake of your "motherland".

    What do you say Mawatha?

  200. It needs to be done Jim – IDP’s needs to be sent home – I think we all agree on it – but it needs time – the bigger picture is much bigger than you think.. we are talking about the future of a whole nation. They suffered for 30 years… another year or two of suffering for all of us, we will be back – I am willing to do that sacrifice for our own benefit – What I need is your support !!

    Let me say this. One more year of suffering for people in the camps is simply not acceptable – that timeframe is simply too much and there is no reason on earth to imprison them for long. I dont think anyone should be subjected to sacrifices (I realize that your synonym for sacrifice is torture) including your own self. It is inhumane and a gross HR violation. Trust me – if you are going to take one more year, not only will the IDPs suffer, the whole of the country will. I remind you of something I stated before – A small nation like SL devoid of resources like oil (or even human resources like China or India for that matter) cannot afford to take on the burden of international action including economic sanctions. Believe me – the crippling effect of economic sanctions will be worse and extremely debilitating than the 30 year war.

  201. Mango 2, as always, your prejudice has clouded your reasoning.

    Today in Sri Lanka there are only “yes” men who would swallow everything and in a slant would find no hesitation in heaping praises on the King Mahinda and patriotism. Like some bloggers here.

    So, is killing innocent civilians in the thousands and herding many into internment camps part of that patriotism?

    Patriotism has very little to do with a government, it’s about taking pride in your country and doing your best to help it (which is a concept that you , many here ,seem unable to grasp).

    Maybe you can look at the world without judgment and prejudice, and then you can see the actual picture (instead of what you force yourself to see).

    Last week, Dileesha Abeysundera, a Sri Lankan journalist and media rights activist, was in a mortal danger in SL.

    The pillar of journalism in SL, Lasantha Wickramatunge, was brutally murdered for taking on a regime that bemoans dissent and fair comment.

    Today, the robotic nature of Sri Lankan generally, perhaps out of fear for a racist regime that has become famous for the “white van” diplomacy is obvious.

    Tell me Mr. Mango2, how many of the cases involving the murdered journalists have been solved.

    Lasantha’s case has been “vigorously” investigated, only that the murderers jumped from the moon and having taken their target, jumped on a spaceship and shot off to the moon.

    Give it to Scotland Yard, and they can get the culprit in a matter of days.

    As assumed that the battle is far from over a crucial report on Sri Lanka’s alleged war crimes which is prepared by Stephen Rapp, who served as Senior Trial Attorney and Chief of Prosecutions at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and it is abundantly clear that this and other avenues would be vigorously pursued and which can be as painful to a regime that has no regard for civilian lives. This will be: Aiyo, mama loku baldiyak peraluva ! The same could be said about many posts here.

    In the shooting and bombing “contest” in the civil war , it is the hapless civilians who paid a heavy price, all because the SL govt has an outpouring love to save them from the clutches of the LTTE.

    Am I naive here ?

    ______________

    Humanitarian Human, are you still thinking Mango is an elitist ?
    He is not. Come to visit to my blog. The friend of mine sent me an email about our favorite elitist, Mango, which is quite funny. I’m also on a Facebook

  202. Mr. Hanuman !!

    I am getting goosepimples all over my body. When your mother is suffering in the campsl you will not pressure the government. What a son your mother has and what a patriotic citizen!

    I trust that I have the intelligence to see beyond the camps and ensure that my parents will be happy after all the suffering that they went through for the past 30 years… Actually, if it was really me, I will also be inside the camp suffering with them. I wouldn't have run away and hidden in another country as I would have not got involved in Terrorist activities… :) !!

  203. Let me say this. One more year of suffering for people in the camps is simply not acceptable – that timeframe is simply too much and there is no reason on earth to imprison them for long. I dont think anyone should be subjected to sacrifices (I realize that your synonym for sacrifice is torture) including your own self. It is inhumane and a gross HR violation.

    No Pain No Gain !!! We did it for 30 years dude – where were you ?? one should definitely not mind another 1 or 2 since the grass is greener on the other side !

    Trust me – if you are going to take one more year, not only will the IDPs suffer, the whole of the country will. I remind you of something I stated before – A small nation like SL devoid of resources like oil (or even human resources like China or India for that matter) cannot afford to take on the burden of international action including economic sanctions. Believe me – the crippling effect of economic sanctions will be worse and extremely debilitating than the 30 year war.

    Are you threatening me or the government ?? Don't you think that it is linked with each other either way ?? Country suffers, IDP's suffer too…

    I think the government has already made sure that there will be no sanctions that would hold the country up. Oil, I think is coming from Iran whether anyone likes it or not and China, Russia and many other countries including the African nations and South American Nations, Japan, South east Asia – all are with us – so I doubt whether America and limited countries in Europe, no matter how strong their economy is could keep us down..

    Anyways – all these would have been different had the LTTE idiots have let the Northern people participate in the previous presidential elections !! They dug their own grave and also let some poor people suffer in camps – Blame them !!

  204. Enough is enough. It is well past time to release civilians detained in the camps. Sri Lanka’s international friends should tell the government that they will not accept any more broken promises.
    .Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch

    Sri Lanka: Government Breaks Promises That Displaced Can Go Home
    http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/19/sri-lanka-government-breaks-promises-displaced-can-go-home

    Sri lankan leaders are still vomiting worms of lies. Last 61 years, these leaders broke the promises given to Tamils. Unlock the Camps

  205. Jim Pappa,

    You and the Rajapakse government are very good at twisting everything, and turning all ideologies/historical facts to your advantage.

    Now, SL regime has trusted allies in Libya, Iran, the ever repressive China and what next?

    All ambitious Sri Lankans ought to immigrate to those countries, and live under madly repressive laws (in many ways similar to those of the Rajapakse & Co )?

    I hardly find it bemusing of your warped logic in seemingly justifying the “thief never admits to his theft” attitude.

    How could a country like Sri Lanka bombing to pulp its own citizens and then boast that it is a humanitarian mission?

    No one cannot even facilitate or support the huge human catastrophe in Sri Lankan internment camps.

    Just because SL Government keeps on continuously lying does not mean lies become gospel truths.

    The problem is Sri Lanka believes, albeit incorrectly, that it has now presented a classic case-study of success through military means.

    It is not that Chantrika Kumaratunga or Ranil Wickramasinghe could not have achieved what SL current President had.

    By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka, it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties.

    So, what shall we make of this hollow victory?

    That the Tamils are expendable people?

  206. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the US government to impose economic sanctions on SL. I think Jim Pappa clearly reflects the racist and chauvinstic mindset of the Sinhalese people – and a government is only as good as its people are. If the average Lankan wants the people to suffer for two years in the wretched camps, the government will only play to the gallery. I think it is high time to pull the trigger and impose the sanctions to get SL to return to the humanitarian world. Only then will people shed their triumphalistic mindset – with elections around the corner, economic sanctions would do well to possibly remove MR from power. As of now it is true that only US holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils – since US is the single biggest market for SL.

    To Jim Pappa:
    You fail to understand how economy works. Iran will only export oil to you – it is not going to be a source of income for SL. China is a competitor to SL on all fronts as far as the export market is concerned. So for you to do some work and get paid and ensure the wheels of SL economy keep spinning, SL has to do business with the western world.

    On the elections point, I agree with you that LTTE dug its own grave through the boycott and ultimately lead to all this suffering. Of course your honorable prez has found his name next to some of the worst tyrants the world has seen through this camp detention act (even forgetting this civilian shelling!).

  207. Here We go Again !!

    Silva Mahaththaya !!

    According to Jim Pappa the IDPs are happy go lucky in the concentration camps in Vavunia, Sri Lanka.

    Wow – who said this and when ?? Dear Silva – please quote me on this
    How can they be happy in side a camp with limited facilities ?? If you go back and read my previous posts, you would obviously see that I am for releasing the IDP’s. What I say is that it cannot be done in a haphazard manner in a rush given the situations explained before and it needs time. And during this period we all will have to suffer in our own ways, but it is necessary for us to go through this short term suffering to get the long term benefit off it…

    What is wrong with these people? It like some broken tape recorder for ever stuck in repeat. – Same Question – Same Answer

    I always wonder, what if Jim Pappa’s beloved, his near and dear: his mother, father, brothers or sisters were illegally interned there like the 300 000 innocent civilians who continue to be forcibly held in horrendous conditions in abysmal concentration camps. – I would try my best to support the government and have talks with the government to get them released As Soon As Possible – I wouldn’t pressure the government unduly as it would do nothing but increase the detention time. Proper talks could ensure the quick release of IDP’s..

    The tyranny and this appalling situation in Sri Lanka have continued for days, weeks, months. Yet the Sri Lanka President Rajapakse said in his speech on 19 May, “….In the past several decades those (Tamils) people wrought to development. I shall give all of that to those people. I accept that responsibility.”

    What a JOKE!!!!!

    This I cannot believe you say !! – Common mann !! Help the guy out if he is willing to do it.. Don’t bark at him … I know for a fact that a lot of development is happening in these areas to ensure the people go back to decent living conditions…

    Although the war is over, the Tamils are yet to get rid of their plights. The ground realities do not show that the Sri Lankan government is making any pragmatic effort to offer genuine human rights for the Tamils, rather it is rejecting their genuine demands and further is trying to colonize Tamil homeland with Sinhalese.
    Instead of accepting Tamils’ legitimate demands for the sake of lasting peace, the Sinhala government is engaged in how it can make Tamils more subservient to them.

    Silva, You and I both know that a 30 year old wound cannot be cured overnight. In my opinion, it would need more than 30 years for things to settle down – i.e. only if all parties are willing to turn it around and support the cause.. Also we should agree that there were Singhala and Muslim population living in these areas before LTTE went on a killing spree and chased them off.. why not settle them too – after all they have been in IDP camps for more than 20 years – I doubt whether you would comment on them….

    The good news:

    GPS+ is not to be for Sri Lanka!!

    Hmmm.. Looks like you want this to happen for vengeance than for any other reason – Bad News is that you are forgetting the fact that your own people whom you are trying to protect will also get effected big time due to the same reason… It will be nobody’s gain !!

  208. Mr.Mango,

    Godwin’s law is not invoked when you talk of Nazis, Hitler or MR in particular.

    On boundaries, let me make this clear – I said human right concerns have no boundaries – that was the context – however countries do have boundaries that are human drawn and get drawn and redrawn over the course of history due to geo-political reasons.

    On GSP+ removal, I explained the need for sanctions and why it is good for SL overall – please read it.

  209. To Jim Pappa:
    I trust that I have the intelligence to see beyond the camps and ensure that my parents will be happy after all the suffering that they went through for the past 30 years…

    Dont subject me to more goosebumps please. Your patriotism is overflowing – please control it.

    On a more serious note, it is clear one more time that you have no clue to the pain and sufferings these people are facing. Did you read the eyewitness report of the British medic on Guardian on what these people faced during the final stages of the war? It is no joke. [Yes, I know you will claim the eyewitness report to be a lie.]

  210. Jim MD,

    In response to Jim Pappa’s comment of Oct. 19, 7:33 A.M., sorry if my earlier comment wasn’t clear. The “personal attack” I was referring to was in your earlier comment where you speculated about my behavior in a hypothetical situation. It was derogatory and unwarranted.

    Extremely sorry you felt that way – didn’t mean it in that sense…

    the IDPs are entitled to freedom of movement and the government isn’t entitled to detain them simply because there may be LTTE members among them. – one of the differences between us is that I say it is necessary and you say it is not… I say that it is necessary given the gravity of the whole issue..


    In my earlier comment, I pointed out a possible connection between two issues – restrictions on access to the IDPs and possible war crimes during the closing stages of the war. I note that the comment from Jim Pappa doesn’t disclose a rationale for why such access has to be restricted.

    I am not a government spokes person, nor have any insight to what their motives are – but, I personally feel that at least selected out side parties (not limited only to UN and Tamilnadu government etc.) should be allowed. The main reason would be that the NGO’s who operated formerly supported the LTTE big time and the government has lost trust in some of the parties that come in good faith – you can’t blame the government for this either, but yet, I agree that others should be able to visit the IDP’s…

    As for the other point, I think I made it clear that, we all know that there are LTTE guys in the camps with the civilians yet and the government will probably not take a chance in sending them out and creating chaos again.

    It needs to be done Jim – IDP’s needs to be sent home – I think we all agree on it – but it needs time – the bigger picture is much bigger than you think.. we are talking about the future of a whole nation. They suffered for 30 years… another year or two of suffering for all of us, we will be back – I am willing to do that sacrifice for our own benefit – What I need is your support !!

  211. Mr. Humane !!

    I reiterate – I am not worried about your english language skills or your slip in expressing what you wanted – I give the benefit of doubt to you on that front – I am worried about your thought processes and the racist underlinings. The fact that travel checkpoints crossed your mind when I was specifically talking of civilians entrapped in the shellings and subsequently in squalid camps is a testimoney to how you view this world. When you view checkpoints as a hindrance in your life that you are willing to face and then juxtapose that scenario with what the IDPS have to endure, you have just blown away even the infinitesimal iota of credibility that people might pay to your comments.

    Well, it is obvious that I have been effected for 30 years of my life by the war too, Hence many things could cross my mind at this point of time… I am still not a racist – thank me for that – I live quite in harmony with a load of friends from all ethnic groups.. I am only sorry that I couldn’t get the point of “We all are suffering in our own Ways” comment in to your head…

    Dont you think the IDPs would pay everything they can to exchange their position to yours – i.e. subject themselves to checkpoints than face the misery in the camps? I would not doubt this for a millisecond !!

    Also nowhere in the world 1 year is a short term.
    What do you think 30 years were? Thrown a small stone to puddle and see how long it takes to settle the mud… Throw a bigger one.. as you go you would see, the larger the stone, the longer the time frame to settle down… !!

    If you or your mother or father or any of your friends are kept in these camps, would you feel that these people are sacrificing themselves for the nation? Would you meet them across the barbed wire in one of those rare once-a-year visits and tell them – “sorry mother, this is a small sacrifice you have to do. From where I am, I sacrifice for the checkpoint scrutiny. Just wait for a short term of a year mother, all will be fine.” Dont you think in those squalid conditions your mother and father will not be there to meet you at the end of her/his one year?

    I know that it is not as easy as I say it and by no means I am saying that they are having a gala time at the camps… As I mentioned before, my approach would be to work with the government to get them out that to work against the government… But, at the same time, we need to understand the reality….

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

    Humane – I am with you in getting them out of there ASAP, but we all need to understand that we cannot have the bigger issue we had before – where do we draw the line ??

  212. Mr. Human !!

    If you think truthfully you would find the vacuous nature of your statements. Please put yourself in these positions and make your comments. Instead if you want to just repeat what your Prez says without putting your brain to any use, then I am sorry – we will read the Daily Mirrors and Lankawebs – I dont have to waste my time responding to you and reading your miserable sarcasm and sadistic viewpoints.

    Dude !! I am in the position you are talking of to a certain extent !! People living in your part of the world would not understand it either !

    Please do go ahead and keep reading the papers – my comments may be important for those who do not read the papers… I actually don’t see a reason to use my brains on those with tunnel vision, rather use it to teach my puppy how to roll over and beg… But I trust that there are a few who would see the bigger picture – if one such person would read and understand, I would be satisfied… !

    Sarcasm is always miserable and ugly – especially when you are at the receiving end !! :( :( :(

  213. Mr.Jim Pappa,

    I would try my best to support the government and have talks with the government to get them released As Soon As Possible – I wouldn’t pressure the government unduly as it would do nothing but increase the detention time. Proper talks could ensure the quick release of IDP’s..

    I am getting goosepimples all over my body. When your mother is suffering in the campsl you will not pressure the government. What a son your mother has and what a patriotic citizen!

    I think there are few in my life whom I have encountered who have done sacrifices of subjecting themselves to travel checkpoints and “verbally offering” his mother to suffer in the camps while you avoid pressurizing the government – all this for the sake of your “motherland”.

    What do you say Mawatha?

  214. As many of those reading this forum may know, the European Commission released two reports on Oct. 19 concerning human rights in Sri Lanka, in connection with the proposed extension of "GSP+" trade benefits for Sri Lankan exports to the EU. A notice by the Commission containing links to the two reports can be found at http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2009/octobe…. The second report was prepared by three independent experts retained by the Commission. Section 5.5.5 on page 91 of that report may be of interest; it reads as follows:

    "Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate."

  215. It needs to be done Jim – IDP’s needs to be sent home – I think we all agree on it – but it needs time – the bigger picture is much bigger than you think.. we are talking about the future of a whole nation. They suffered for 30 years… another year or two of suffering for all of us, we will be back – I am willing to do that sacrifice for our own benefit – What I need is your support !!

    Let me say this. One more year of suffering for people in the camps is simply not acceptable – that timeframe is simply too much and there is no reason on earth to imprison them for long. I dont think anyone should be subjected to sacrifices (I realize that your synonym for sacrifice is torture) including your own self. It is inhumane and a gross HR violation. Trust me – if you are going to take one more year, not only will the IDPs suffer, the whole of the country will. I remind you of something I stated before – A small nation like SL devoid of resources like oil (or even human resources like China or India for that matter) cannot afford to take on the burden of international action including economic sanctions. Believe me – the crippling effect of economic sanctions will be worse and extremely debilitating than the 30 year war.

  216. Mahapare Silva

    You and the Rajapakse government are very good at twisting everything, and turning all ideologies/historical facts to your advantage.

    Just like you and the LTTE guys are twisting things for your advantage ??
    Now, SL regime has trusted allies in Libya, Iran, the ever repressive China and what next?
    Ask the government !!

    All ambitious Sri Lankans ought to immigrate to those countries, and live under madly repressive laws (in many ways similar to those of the Rajapakse & Co )?
    No need we have a country here – why runaway ? we are not Terrorists to run away !!

    I hardly find it bemusing of your warped logic in seemingly justifying the “thief never admits to his theft” attitude.

    Unfortunately, so are the Cowardly Terrorists – they never accept what they do nor come up with the vertical spine – always try to show something different on the outside – Pussy with Tiger coat..

    How could a country like Sri Lanka bombing to pulp its own citizens and then boast that it is a humanitarian mission?
    Don't find it amusing when LTTE killed their own kind whilst trying to show that they represent the tamils

    No one cannot even facilitate or support the huge human catastrophe in Sri Lankan internment camps.
    have you seen it ??

    Just because SL Government keeps on continuously lying does not mean lies become gospel truths. – So goes for you my friend !!

    The problem is Sri Lanka believes, albeit incorrectly, that it has now presented a classic case-study of success through military means.

    It is not that Chantrika Kumaratunga or Ranil Wickramasinghe could not have achieved what SL current President had.

    By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka, it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties.

    Yeps – they (RW and CBK) managed to get a load of NGO's who helped LTTE build air crafts and Submarines, where MR managed to destroy them… Civilian casualties – Blame the LTTE and Prabha, if they had not held them hostage, no innocent would have died (i.e. if it happened, from what we know, it is minimal and has to be accepted in war condition – no war won without Bloodshed)

    So, what shall we make of this hollow victory?

    Or a nasty defeat of terrorism !!

    That the Tamils are expendable people?

    for me – Tamils are Splendid People !! :) – Seriously mean it !!

  217. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the Ai to stop this madness and look beyond what's written in your HR papers. In africa, they had to kill some lions who were sick to spread the disease from entering the healthy lions which of course was against the Animal rights Laws and some undeseased also were killed unfortunately. In Sri Lanka, we killed some of the Sri Lankans (Tigers) who were involved in Terrorist activities to protect the Rest of the Sri Lankans (Lions).

    I think HUMAN clearly reflects the Terrorist mindset of the few who are left over and trying to create issues. If the average LTTEer wants the people to suffer for centuries to come, they will play to the gallery and try win sympathy votes. I think it is high time to pull the trigger and stop supporting the LTTE and look in to a brighter future in Sri Lanka and in return the world. Only then will people shed their cowardly mindset – with bright future for the country around the corner, your support would do well to possibly eradicate terrorism from face of earth. As of now it is true that only SL holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils in SL – since SL can manage their own affairs with the help of our friends – be friends with us :) !! – Good Editing ??

    To Jim Pappa:
    You fail to understand how economy works. Iran will only export oil to you – it is not going to be a source of income for SL. China is a competitor to SL on all fronts as far as the export market is concerned. So for you to do some work and get paid and ensure the wheels of SL economy keep spinning, SL has to do business with the western world.

    Hmmm.. The economist in Humanitarian !!
    We are talking of at least 100 countries here my friend though you are stuck with Iran and China – I personally wouldn't want this to happen as my ties are mainly with the west, but, if bad comes to worse :( !!

    On the elections point, I agree with you that LTTE dug its own grave through the boycott and ultimately lead to all this suffering. Of course your honorable prez has found his name next to some of the worst tyrants the world has seen through this camp detention act (even forgetting this civilian shelling!).

    To me his is not the most honorable president, but I admire the fellow for crushing the LTTE – I mean I perfectly agree that there was no other way to bring peace… Unfortunately, there are casualties of any war – for a person who knows the history of the world this would not be something new – but for people who just woke up today or people who fail to look beyond what's put on paper, it would be a bit difficult to understand – need a load of what we call Commonsense for it !!

  218. As many of those reading this forum may know, the European Commission released two reports on Oct. 19 concerning human rights in Sri Lanka, in connection with the proposed extension of "GSP+" trade benefits for Sri Lankan exports to the EU. A notice by the Commission containing links to the two reports can be found at http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2009/octobe…. The second report was prepared by three independent experts retained by the Commission. Section 5.5.5 on page 91 of that report may be of interest; it reads as follows:

    "Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate."

  219. As many of those reading this forum may know, the European Commission released two reports on Oct. 19 concerning human rights in Sri Lanka, in connection with the proposed extension of "GSP+" trade benefits for Sri Lankan exports to the EU. A notice by the Commission containing links to the two reports can be found at http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2009/octobe…. The second report was prepared by three independent experts retained by the Commission. Section 5.5.5 on page 91 of that report may be of interest; it reads as follows:

    "Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate."

  220. On a more serious note, it is clear one more time that you have no clue to the pain and sufferings these people are facing. Did you read the eyewitness report of the British medic on Guardian on what these people faced during the final stages of the war? It is no joke. [Yes, I know you will claim the eyewitness report to be a lie.]

    OK – I will give you the benefit of the doubt !!

    Answer me please here – and to the point…

    If the LTTE guys in the camp escape and create problems again, what would you do if you were the president of SL ?? (Let's try get in to the poor fella's boots ??)

    On a differnet note !!
    I am sure that the the IDP's would have seen hell on earth during the last stages of the war – I mean thank god they at least managed to escape that devastation… Luckily for some reason (may be near death enlightenment) that Prabhakara decided to let the Hostages go..

    Common they were in a bloody war zone, not in middle of paradise… I recall what I felt when I was at TransAsia when the LTTE Air Plane came and banged in to the Inland revenue building… Horrendous, Horrific experience and a helpless feeling… I am not stupid Duh – what do u think ??

    But, now it is over for me and the IDP's… :):):)… Now we are on a mission of clearing things up for a better future for all of us :) :) :) – Nice ha ?? Paradise come :) !!

  221. Dear Jiim MD,

    I agree with the following statement and I am sure that all Sri Lankans immaterial of Ethnicity are with me on this – Mango ??

    “Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate.”

    But what else to do my friend ?? :( :(

    In Singhala There is a saying – Rawulai Kendai Dekama ona – One needs to keep the beard and also have the Porridge :) – We need to release the Innocent and at the same time filter the LTTE… This is probably the only interim solution – Guys what we need to get to our heads is that it is temporary.. If it continues for a longer period, I will defa join you to march in front of Presidents office !!

  222. Mango 2, as always, your prejudice has clouded your reasoning.

    Today in Sri Lanka there are only “yes” men who would swallow everything and in a slant would find no hesitation in heaping praises on the King Mahinda and patriotism. Like some bloggers here.

    So, is killing innocent civilians in the thousands and herding many into internment camps part of that patriotism?

    Patriotism has very little to do with a government, it’s about taking pride in your country and doing your best to help it (which is a concept that you , many here ,seem unable to grasp).

    Maybe you can look at the world without judgment and prejudice, and then you can see the actual picture (instead of what you force yourself to see).

    Last week, Dileesha Abeysundera, a Sri Lankan journalist and media rights activist, was in a mortal danger in SL.

    The pillar of journalism in SL, Lasantha Wickramatunge, was brutally murdered for taking on a regime that bemoans dissent and fair comment.

    Today, the robotic nature of Sri Lankan generally, perhaps out of fear for a racist regime that has become famous for the “white van” diplomacy is obvious.

    Tell me Mr. Mango2, how many of the cases involving the murdered journalists have been solved.

    Lasantha’s case has been “vigorously” investigated, only that the murderers jumped from the moon and having taken their target, jumped on a spaceship and shot off to the moon.

    Give it to Scotland Yard, and they can get the culprit in a matter of days.

    As assumed that the battle is far from over a crucial report on Sri Lanka’s alleged war crimes which is prepared by Stephen Rapp, who served as Senior Trial Attorney and Chief of Prosecutions at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and it is abundantly clear that this and other avenues would be vigorously pursued and which can be as painful to a regime that has no regard for civilian lives. This will be: Aiyo, mama loku baldiyak peraluva ! The same could be said about many posts here.

    In the shooting and bombing “contest” in the civil war , it is the hapless civilians who paid a heavy price, all because the SL govt has an outpouring love to save them from the clutches of the LTTE.

    Am I naive here ?

    ______________

    Humanitarian Human, are you still thinking Mango is an elitist ?
    He is not. Come to visit to my blog. The friend of mine sent me an email about our favorite elitist, Mango, which is quite funny. I’m also on a Facebook

  223. Mr. Hanuman !!

    I am getting goosepimples all over my body. When your mother is suffering in the campsl you will not pressure the government. What a son your mother has and what a patriotic citizen!

    I trust that I have the intelligence to see beyond the camps and ensure that my parents will be happy after all the suffering that they went through for the past 30 years… Actually, if it was really me, I will also be inside the camp suffering with them. I wouldn’t have run away and hidden in another country as I would have not got involved in Terrorist activities… :) !!

  224. Let me say this. One more year of suffering for people in the camps is simply not acceptable – that timeframe is simply too much and there is no reason on earth to imprison them for long. I dont think anyone should be subjected to sacrifices (I realize that your synonym for sacrifice is torture) including your own self. It is inhumane and a gross HR violation.

    No Pain No Gain !!! We did it for 30 years dude – where were you ?? one should definitely not mind another 1 or 2 since the grass is greener on the other side !

    Trust me – if you are going to take one more year, not only will the IDPs suffer, the whole of the country will. I remind you of something I stated before – A small nation like SL devoid of resources like oil (or even human resources like China or India for that matter) cannot afford to take on the burden of international action including economic sanctions. Believe me – the crippling effect of economic sanctions will be worse and extremely debilitating than the 30 year war.

    Are you threatening me or the government ?? Don’t you think that it is linked with each other either way ?? Country suffers, IDP’s suffer too…

    I think the government has already made sure that there will be no sanctions that would hold the country up. Oil, I think is coming from Iran whether anyone likes it or not and China, Russia and many other countries including the African nations and South American Nations, Japan, South east Asia – all are with us – so I doubt whether America and limited countries in Europe, no matter how strong their economy is could keep us down..

    Anyways – all these would have been different had the LTTE idiots have let the Northern people participate in the previous presidential elections !! They dug their own grave and also let some poor people suffer in camps – Blame them !!

  225. Jim Pappa,

    You and the Rajapakse government are very good at twisting everything, and turning all ideologies/historical facts to your advantage.

    Now, SL regime has trusted allies in Libya, Iran, the ever repressive China and what next?

    All ambitious Sri Lankans ought to immigrate to those countries, and live under madly repressive laws (in many ways similar to those of the Rajapakse & Co )?

    I hardly find it bemusing of your warped logic in seemingly justifying the “thief never admits to his theft” attitude.

    How could a country like Sri Lanka bombing to pulp its own citizens and then boast that it is a humanitarian mission?

    No one cannot even facilitate or support the huge human catastrophe in Sri Lankan internment camps.

    Just because SL Government keeps on continuously lying does not mean lies become gospel truths.

    The problem is Sri Lanka believes, albeit incorrectly, that it has now presented a classic case-study of success through military means.

    It is not that Chantrika Kumaratunga or Ranil Wickramasinghe could not have achieved what SL current President had.

    By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka, it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties.

    So, what shall we make of this hollow victory?

    That the Tamils are expendable people?

  226. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the US government to impose economic sanctions on SL. I think Jim Pappa clearly reflects the racist and chauvinstic mindset of the Sinhalese people – and a government is only as good as its people are. If the average Lankan wants the people to suffer for two years in the wretched camps, the government will only play to the gallery. I think it is high time to pull the trigger and impose the sanctions to get SL to return to the humanitarian world. Only then will people shed their triumphalistic mindset – with elections around the corner, economic sanctions would do well to possibly remove MR from power. As of now it is true that only US holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils – since US is the single biggest market for SL.

    To Jim Pappa:
    You fail to understand how economy works. Iran will only export oil to you – it is not going to be a source of income for SL. China is a competitor to SL on all fronts as far as the export market is concerned. So for you to do some work and get paid and ensure the wheels of SL economy keep spinning, SL has to do business with the western world.

    On the elections point, I agree with you that LTTE dug its own grave through the boycott and ultimately lead to all this suffering. Of course your honorable prez has found his name next to some of the worst tyrants the world has seen through this camp detention act (even forgetting this civilian shelling!).

  227. To Jim Pappa:
    I trust that I have the intelligence to see beyond the camps and ensure that my parents will be happy after all the suffering that they went through for the past 30 years…

    Dont subject me to more goosebumps please. Your patriotism is overflowing – please control it.

    On a more serious note, it is clear one more time that you have no clue to the pain and sufferings these people are facing. Did you read the eyewitness report of the British medic on Guardian on what these people faced during the final stages of the war? It is no joke. [Yes, I know you will claim the eyewitness report to be a lie.]

  228. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    Again an inappropriate comparison. The problem is that the Sinhalese are drinking the porridge while the Tamils are getting dirty.

    And your definition of temporary is more than a year and that is unacceptable confinement particularly given that the world has no clue of what is happening there.

    Also I do not want to fit into boots that smell of war crimes and HR violations, even if you might want to carry it around on your head due to the blind adulation you have.

    On sanctions, please dont be naive. None of these 100 countries give you revenue – please analyse the finances of your country – then we will talk. One man getting arrested in NY has crashed your indices by 5 percent in two days – that is the state of the economy. The triumphalist attitude of the government and people like you has made you all forget reality. The removal of GSP plus (I pray it happens) is a huge blow if you did not realize – if you still have not learnt your lesson, please wait boldly for the American sanctions.

    Btw your inappropriate usage of smileys and sadistic laughter while talking of human suffering is disgusting and offensive – not to forget some of your deplorable comments. I request you to exercise caution in your comments and language, otherwise I think the editors should seriously think of blocking you.

  229. As of now it is true that only SL holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils in SL

    I think the above is absolutely true. That is why AI and the west world has been asking the SL government to release the people kept hostage in these camps.

  230. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the Ai to stop this madness and look beyond what’s written in your HR papers. In africa, they had to kill some lions who were sick to spread the disease from entering the healthy lions which of course was against the Animal rights Laws and some undeseased also were killed unfortunately. In Sri Lanka, we killed some of the Sri Lankans (Tigers) who were involved in Terrorist activities to protect the Rest of the Sri Lankans (Lions).

    Extremely despicable and stinkingly offensive. I think either Mr.Jim Pappa should be banned or these sorts of comments deleted.

  231. Mahapare Silva

    You and the Rajapakse government are very good at twisting everything, and turning all ideologies/historical facts to your advantage.

    Just like you and the LTTE guys are twisting things for your advantage ??
    Now, SL regime has trusted allies in Libya, Iran, the ever repressive China and what next?
    Ask the government !!

    All ambitious Sri Lankans ought to immigrate to those countries, and live under madly repressive laws (in many ways similar to those of the Rajapakse & Co )?
    No need we have a country here – why runaway ? we are not Terrorists to run away !!

    I hardly find it bemusing of your warped logic in seemingly justifying the “thief never admits to his theft” attitude.

    Unfortunately, so are the Cowardly Terrorists – they never accept what they do nor come up with the vertical spine – always try to show something different on the outside – Pussy with Tiger coat..

    How could a country like Sri Lanka bombing to pulp its own citizens and then boast that it is a humanitarian mission?
    Don’t find it amusing when LTTE killed their own kind whilst trying to show that they represent the tamils

    No one cannot even facilitate or support the huge human catastrophe in Sri Lankan internment camps.
    have you seen it ??

    Just because SL Government keeps on continuously lying does not mean lies become gospel truths. – So goes for you my friend !!

    The problem is Sri Lanka believes, albeit incorrectly, that it has now presented a classic case-study of success through military means.

    It is not that Chantrika Kumaratunga or Ranil Wickramasinghe could not have achieved what SL current President had.

    By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka, it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties.

    Yeps – they (RW and CBK) managed to get a load of NGO’s who helped LTTE build air crafts and Submarines, where MR managed to destroy them… Civilian casualties – Blame the LTTE and Prabha, if they had not held them hostage, no innocent would have died (i.e. if it happened, from what we know, it is minimal and has to be accepted in war condition – no war won without Bloodshed)

    So, what shall we make of this hollow victory?

    Or a nasty defeat of terrorism !!

    That the Tamils are expendable people?

    for me – Tamils are Splendid People !! :) – Seriously mean it !!

  232. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the Ai to stop this madness and look beyond what’s written in your HR papers. In africa, they had to kill some lions who were sick to spread the disease from entering the healthy lions which of course was against the Animal rights Laws and some undeseased also were killed unfortunately. In Sri Lanka, we killed some of the Sri Lankans (Tigers) who were involved in Terrorist activities to protect the Rest of the Sri Lankans (Lions).

    I think HUMAN clearly reflects the Terrorist mindset of the few who are left over and trying to create issues. If the average LTTEer wants the people to suffer for centuries to come, they will play to the gallery and try win sympathy votes. I think it is high time to pull the trigger and stop supporting the LTTE and look in to a brighter future in Sri Lanka and in return the world. Only then will people shed their cowardly mindset – with bright future for the country around the corner, your support would do well to possibly eradicate terrorism from face of earth. As of now it is true that only SL holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils in SL – since SL can manage their own affairs with the help of our friends – be friends with us :) !! – Good Editing ??

    To Jim Pappa:
    You fail to understand how economy works. Iran will only export oil to you – it is not going to be a source of income for SL. China is a competitor to SL on all fronts as far as the export market is concerned. So for you to do some work and get paid and ensure the wheels of SL economy keep spinning, SL has to do business with the western world.

    Hmmm.. The economist in Humanitarian !!
    We are talking of at least 100 countries here my friend though you are stuck with Iran and China – I personally wouldn’t want this to happen as my ties are mainly with the west, but, if bad comes to worse :( !!

    On the elections point, I agree with you that LTTE dug its own grave through the boycott and ultimately lead to all this suffering. Of course your honorable prez has found his name next to some of the worst tyrants the world has seen through this camp detention act (even forgetting this civilian shelling!).

    To me his is not the most honorable president, but I admire the fellow for crushing the LTTE – I mean I perfectly agree that there was no other way to bring peace… Unfortunately, there are casualties of any war – for a person who knows the history of the world this would not be something new – but for people who just woke up today or people who fail to look beyond what’s put on paper, it would be a bit difficult to understand – need a load of what we call Commonsense for it !!

  233. As many of those reading this forum may know, the European Commission released two reports on Oct. 19 concerning human rights in Sri Lanka, in connection with the proposed extension of “GSP+” trade benefits for Sri Lankan exports to the EU. A notice by the Commission containing links to the two reports can be found at http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2009/october/tradoc_145154.pdf. The second report was prepared by three independent experts retained by the Commission. Section 5.5.5 on page 91 of that report may be of interest; it reads as follows:

    “Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate.”

  234. On a more serious note, it is clear one more time that you have no clue to the pain and sufferings these people are facing. Did you read the eyewitness report of the British medic on Guardian on what these people faced during the final stages of the war? It is no joke. [Yes, I know you will claim the eyewitness report to be a lie.]

    OK – I will give you the benefit of the doubt !!

    Answer me please here – and to the point…

    If the LTTE guys in the camp escape and create problems again, what would you do if you were the president of SL ?? (Let’s try get in to the poor fella’s boots ??)

    On a differnet note !!
    I am sure that the the IDP’s would have seen hell on earth during the last stages of the war – I mean thank god they at least managed to escape that devastation… Luckily for some reason (may be near death enlightenment) that Prabhakara decided to let the Hostages go..

    Common they were in a bloody war zone, not in middle of paradise… I recall what I felt when I was at TransAsia when the LTTE Air Plane came and banged in to the Inland revenue building… Horrendous, Horrific experience and a helpless feeling… I am not stupid Duh – what do u think ??

    But, now it is over for me and the IDP’s… :):):)… Now we are on a mission of clearing things up for a better future for all of us :) :) :) – Nice ha ?? Paradise come :) !!

  235. Dear Jiim MD,

    I agree with the following statement and I am sure that all Sri Lankans immaterial of Ethnicity are with me on this – Mango ??

    “Restrictions on freedom of movement are not, in and of themselves, a violation of human rights law. In order for the restrictions to be legitimate, they need to be necessary and to be applied in a reasoned, non-arbitrary and proportionate manner. The principal problem posed by the general restrictions on freedom of movement in Sri Lanka is that they appear to be imposed and enforced in an arbitrary and disproportionate manner. In relation specifically to the recently established camps, it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate.”

    But what else to do my friend ?? :( :(

    In Singhala There is a saying – Rawulai Kendai Dekama ona – One needs to keep the beard and also have the Porridge :) – We need to release the Innocent and at the same time filter the LTTE… This is probably the only interim solution – Guys what we need to get to our heads is that it is temporary.. If it continues for a longer period, I will defa join you to march in front of Presidents office !!

  236. Mr. Jim Pappa,

    Again an inappropriate comparison. The problem is that the Sinhalese are drinking the porridge while the Tamils are getting dirty.

    And your definition of temporary is more than a year and that is unacceptable confinement particularly given that the world has no clue of what is happening there.

    Also I do not want to fit into boots that smell of war crimes and HR violations, even if you might want to carry it around on your head due to the blind adulation you have.

    On sanctions, please dont be naive. None of these 100 countries give you revenue – please analyse the finances of your country – then we will talk. One man getting arrested in NY has crashed your indices by 5 percent in two days – that is the state of the economy. The triumphalist attitude of the government and people like you has made you all forget reality. The removal of GSP plus (I pray it happens) is a huge blow if you did not realize – if you still have not learnt your lesson, please wait boldly for the American sanctions.

    Btw your inappropriate usage of smileys and sadistic laughter while talking of human suffering is disgusting and offensive – not to forget some of your deplorable comments. I request you to exercise caution in your comments and language, otherwise I think the editors should seriously think of blocking you.

  237. As of now it is true that only SL holds the ultimate leverage to the freedom of the suffering Tamils in SL

    I think the above is absolutely true. That is why AI and the west world has been asking the SL government to release the people kept hostage in these camps.

  238. To Jim McDonald:
    I think AI should strongly convince the Ai to stop this madness and look beyond what’s written in your HR papers. In africa, they had to kill some lions who were sick to spread the disease from entering the healthy lions which of course was against the Animal rights Laws and some undeseased also were killed unfortunately. In Sri Lanka, we killed some of the Sri Lankans (Tigers) who were involved in Terrorist activities to protect the Rest of the Sri Lankans (Lions).

    Extremely despicable and stinkingly offensive. I think either Mr.Jim Pappa should be banned or these sorts of comments deleted.

  239. Mawatham & Humanitarian,

    It's always a pleasure to read of our great 'Humanitarian's wish for sanctions and removal of GSP+ whilst pondering on its impact on the poorest & most disadvantaged segments of SL society, the Tamil civilans in the war-ravaged North & East. It only demonstrates your lack of concern for the overall welfare of all SL citizens, but then, that's nothing new is it?

    Even if GSP+ is removed SL will survive. For sanctions to be effective it will have to concerted, widespread and widely complied with. SL isn't that important a player or prize in the geopolitical landscape for even the LTTE diaspora vote-dependent Western politicians to have that much influence. You'll have to fantasise a little bit harder to in your unceasing efforts to sabotage SL's painful recovery from a 30-year insurgency, aided by your fellow travellers in the INGO camp.

    And the idea that you know what's 'good for SL' is simply a measure of a large degree of self-delusion. I particularly like this unintentional betrayal of your LTTE position. …"By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka.. it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties."

    You've finally got it. Any democratically elected, legitimate govt of SL has to as their first duty ensure that their writ is exerted over the whole country and not leave any part of it in the hands of racist terrorists like the LTTE. I'm sure you were all praying and hoping that SL would be another Kosovo or Cyprus, but his Royal Fatness, VP was simply too stupid to understand that it was not to be.

    Humi, you really should research a bit before you pronounce on Godwin's Law. Let me help you. '"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] The term Godwin's law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to "lose" the debate."

    Which particular flavour of genocide will SL be accused of perpetrating now? Eelam Genocide?

    That UK LTTE supporter's eyewitness report of atrocities, in the Guardian omitted one vital point. Not a word about how the Vanni civilians were hereded out of Killi and other towns by the LTTE to act as hostages. I suppose she's suffering from convenient memory lapses.

    The most unselfconsciously ironic thing I've read on this blog is Mawatham, an unapologetic LTTE supporter claiming "Maybe you can look at the world without judgment and prejudice, and then you can see the actual picture".

    I can think of few other groups more prejudicial than the LTTE. But then, as a supporter of that cause, I wouldn't expect you to admit that.

    I'd be even more impressed with Mawatham Anna's HR credentials if he showed what he did to oppose LTTE HR abuses, during their destructive three-decade reign in SL. I'm sure he went on lots of marches against bus bombers, trains bombers and multi-purpose suicide bombers.

    Now, I must run along, collect my cheque from the SL govt and hire a few more servants and build another layer of my Elite Cubicle. [for the benefit of any low-wattage Eelamists, I don't have an Elite Cubicle -- at least not until Humanitarian gifts me one].

  240. Jim Pappa,

    Finally the EU says something logical about the SL situation.

    "… it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate.”

    It's the timeframe of detention that is causing the most upset — and I've always argued that the SL govt should put definite time limits on this detention.

    Then it should invite those who disagree the most (our wise, benevolent and infallible HR lodestars in the Western bloc) to help expedite the process, but under SL govt rules.

    The LTTE diaspora should be invited to contribute financially to re-building (money for proper schools) rather than destruction (money for suicide bomber training schools) and their expected refusal to assist should be exposed for all to see.

    p.s. if you know of any Elite Cubicles in Colombo 7 (Bauddhaloka Mawatha or Cinnamon Gardens?), drop me a line. Humanitarian's promised to buy me my own Elite Cubicle with as many servants as I want.

  241. Mawatham & Humanitarian,

    It’s always a pleasure to read of our great ‘Humanitarian’s wish for sanctions and removal of GSP+ whilst pondering on its impact on the poorest & most disadvantaged segments of SL society, the Tamil civilans in the war-ravaged North & East. It only demonstrates your lack of concern for the overall welfare of all SL citizens, but then, that’s nothing new is it?

    Even if GSP+ is removed SL will survive. For sanctions to be effective it will have to concerted, widespread and widely complied with. SL isn’t that important a player or prize in the geopolitical landscape for even the LTTE diaspora vote-dependent Western politicians to have that much influence. You’ll have to fantasise a little bit harder to in your unceasing efforts to sabotage SL’s painful recovery from a 30-year insurgency, aided by your fellow travellers in the INGO camp.

    And the idea that you know what’s ‘good for SL’ is simply a measure of a large degree of self-delusion. I particularly like this unintentional betrayal of your LTTE position. …”By wanting to exert the writ over the whole of Sri Lanka.. it was ready to do so at the expense of so many civilian casualties.”

    You’ve finally got it. Any democratically elected, legitimate govt of SL has to as their first duty ensure that their writ is exerted over the whole country and not leave any part of it in the hands of racist terrorists like the LTTE. I’m sure you were all praying and hoping that SL would be another Kosovo or Cyprus, but his Royal Fatness, VP was simply too stupid to understand that it was not to be.

    Humi, you really should research a bit before you pronounce on Godwin’s Law. Let me help you. ‘”As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”[2][3] The term Godwin’s law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to “lose” the debate.”

    Which particular flavour of genocide will SL be accused of perpetrating now? Eelam Genocide?

    That UK LTTE supporter’s eyewitness report of atrocities, in the Guardian omitted one vital point. Not a word about how the Vanni civilians were hereded out of Killi and other towns by the LTTE to act as hostages. I suppose she’s suffering from convenient memory lapses.

    The most unselfconsciously ironic thing I’ve read on this blog is Mawatham, an unapologetic LTTE supporter claiming “Maybe you can look at the world without judgment and prejudice, and then you can see the actual picture”.

    I can think of few other groups more prejudicial than the LTTE. But then, as a supporter of that cause, I wouldn’t expect you to admit that.

    I’d be even more impressed with Mawatham Anna’s HR credentials if he showed what he did to oppose LTTE HR abuses, during their destructive three-decade reign in SL. I’m sure he went on lots of marches against bus bombers, trains bombers and multi-purpose suicide bombers.

    Now, I must run along, collect my cheque from the SL govt and hire a few more servants and build another layer of my Elite Cubicle. [for the benefit of any low-wattage Eelamists, I don't have an Elite Cubicle -- at least not until Humanitarian gifts me one].

  242. Jim Pappa,

    Finally the EU says something logical about the SL situation.

    “… it must be recognized that the government does have legitimate security concerns. The screening of IDPs in order to identify LTTE fighters is legitimate. The mass internment of the civilian population in the North, however, is both arbitrary and disproportionate.”

    It’s the timeframe of detention that is causing the most upset — and I’ve always argued that the SL govt should put definite time limits on this detention.

    Then it should invite those who disagree the most (our wise, benevolent and infallible HR lodestars in the Western bloc) to help expedite the process, but under SL govt rules.

    The LTTE diaspora should be invited to contribute financially to re-building (money for proper schools) rather than destruction (money for suicide bomber training schools) and their expected refusal to assist should be exposed for all to see.

    p.s. if you know of any Elite Cubicles in Colombo 7 (Bauddhaloka Mawatha or Cinnamon Gardens?), drop me a line. Humanitarian’s promised to buy me my own Elite Cubicle with as many servants as I want.

  243. Humann !!

    Extremely despicable and stinkingly offensive. I think either Mr.Jim Pappa should be banned or these sorts of comments deleted.

    I understand that your stand is that you can write any "Cow Dung" here and when I write in the same tone with a different opinion it becomes "Offensive"…

  244. Mango !!

    Indeed my stand – there are ways things are done and there should be some responsibility when tackling issues – specially a big issue as this which effects a whole nation…

    I personally feel that undue pressure is quite irresponsible at a time where the Chief of UN had visited and given the green light to the SL government's effort.

    Still I feel that this is again something that is done willfully than being purpose oriented as the Tamilnadu Officials gave the OK too… Some time back they were opposing the war it self – so if they visited the location and are overwhelmed by the situation, I don't see any reason as to why anyone who is really interested in the subject matter could take their word – The Indian government just released around USD 500 mil(if I remember the figure right) for rehab after going through the Tamilnadu report.

    P.S. Well, there is a place at the Wijerama Mw, Barnes Place Junction. A 2 story building fully AC'd ample parking space and a Helipad.. I can arrange for a landing strip for a private jet too – i.e. if you are interested….

  245. Dearest Human !!

    Again an inappropriate comparison. The problem is that the Sinhalese are drinking the porridge while the Tamils are getting dirty.

    If you are talking in ""Literal terms"", Why do they get dirty & Who said so ?? BTW< we eat rice and curry and my recent visit to the East, my Tamil friends gave me Chapathi !

    And your definition of temporary is more than a year and that is unacceptable confinement particularly given that the world has no clue of what is happening there.

    Yep Definition – it is subjective – I define it as a very short period compared to 30 years – and did you notice how soon this year of 2009 passed by – I mean after all the drama that happened ?? – 30 years..mmm.. I don't remember where it started :( !!

    Also I do not want to fit into boots that smell of war crimes and HR violations, even if you might want to carry it around on your head due to the blind adulation you have.

    Or should I call it conveniently slipping through the back door without answering the question ?? (Bad Boy !!)

    On sanctions, please dont be naive. None of these 100 countries give you revenue – please analyse the finances of your country – then we will talk. One man getting arrested in NY has crashed your indices by 5 percent in two days – that is the state of the economy. The triumphalist attitude of the government and people like you has made you all forget reality. The removal of GSP plus (I pray it happens) is a huge blow if you did not realize – if you still have not learnt your lesson, please wait boldly for the American sanctions.

    My Country !! What is your country may I ask please ??
    See Human – the thing is when you are sleeping on the mat, you roll over to the floor – not fall down – so you could hear Mr. MR singing "I will Survive" during his morning shower :) !! – I think you have a "Hate Sri Lanka and Singhalees" attitude than "Save Tamils" Attitude.. :( :( :( – and you call me a Racist – I love my Tamil brotheren – So please don't call me so in future.. (Tharaha Wenawa Honde !!)

    If you had read the report Jim published re. GSP+, it doesn't quite go against the government either – it basically stands with the government from my point of view… Anyways, it will be for 6 months – and since 6 months has already passed by from the 1 year I mentioned, we should be fine :) :) :) – (Go Sri Lanka – One Nation, One Flag, One big happy family)

    Btw your inappropriate usage of smileys and sadistic laughter while talking of human suffering is disgusting and offensive – not to forget some of your deplorable comments. I request you to exercise caution in your comments and language, otherwise I think the editors should seriously think of blocking you.

    Hey – I use smileys because I am happy that we (Whole of Sri Lanka) are finally free…. – Join me will you please… Let's rebuild the nation together so that at least our children would have the childhood and youth that we never had (assuming you are my age or close)

    I told you before also noh.. my laguage iskills are pretty bad Noh… So Please pardon me my brother !! I am only answering you in my own style noh.. So please don't take it as offensive – I don't say that you are offensive Noh.. ??
    I hope that Jim and others would also understand that I am replying you only and not in a offensive tone, nor laguage… ( I actually changed the tone, cause I was told that it was degrading before – so now I am more cautious :) – doing a good job Noh ??

    Also would like to remind the following on a more serious note !!

    Answer me please here – and to the point…

    If the LTTE guys in the camp escape and create problems again, what would you do if you were the president of SL ?? (Let’s try get in to the poor fella’s boots ??) – (now he has new boots – No Blood – have Dove's feathers !!)

  246. Human !!

    Don't you think that you should ask for banning of Posting Stuff to the blog – I mean why drag Poor Buddha in to it ? Forgotten that there are Tamil Buddhists and that Religion doesn't demarcate Ethnicity ?? – Just a Suggestion…. !

  247. Mr.Mango,

    I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed. I think there is a need for urgency on part of SL government to resettle people. These people have faced the worst in their life – the shelling, the trauma of seeing their near and dear ones die in front of their eyes (did you see Mr.Jim Pappa's reaction to the Colombo attack, they have seen far worse things) and now they need emotional rehabilitation, punishing them further with this detention is cruel. Sorry dont reply back with your standard LTTE answer.

    Mr.Mango, on the elite cubicle – I will sponsor it in exchange for you to write with moral conscience, assuming you have it :)

  248. I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed.,/i>

    Angry words from an angry man !!!

    The great Ghandi has told it is not good to get angry and he has used a certain verb to describe angry people… I will not use it as it might be "Offensive"

    What happens when you start beating up a Lion ?? The fellow get's even more furious – Fight backs harder – till death!!

    People indeed went through HELL because of Terrorist – I would like to actually ask those people whether they wish to go back a few months – back to the claws of the unholy tiger ? People who are already comfortable in the cubical might not actually know this though they pretend to write on behalf of them….. I mean – seriously !!

    The world it self is divided when it comes to the issue in SL. What happened in Genve some time back is where the west was defeated by Asia, Middle East, Africa and South America (the Security council was it?) There will be a huge possibility that the world will keep arguing to and for regarding the issue. But, It will finally be Sri Lanka's call… Best is to work with the Government so that things would happen faster..

    I guess some of you have already jumped to the conclusion that MR is a liar and he will not keep his promise of developing the North – or at least you know it is happening, but going ahead with the spread of false propaganda just to promote your interests..

    As some of you might hope for GSP+ not to happen, I sincerely hope that the other governments will see the right picture and be with Sri Lanka at this time where the nation stands to rise as one… That will help all Sri Lankans a big way…. (After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist Governments – I don't expect this from Taliban Government)

  249. As some of you might hope for GSP+ not to happen, I sincerely hope that the other governments will see the right picture and be with Sri Lanka at this time where the nation stands to rise as one… That will help all Sri Lankans a big way…

    Only yesterday, people dismissed the need for GSP+ and boasted of the 100 country support. Now suddenly the reality seems to be sinking in. Wait for a few months – hopefully the GSP+ is cut off. Wait for the war crime investigations in US and be prepared for another round of economic sanctions. I suggest SL rather cleans up the mess and gives its people the due freedom in the next two months – then even GSP+ could be retained.

    After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist Governments – I don’t expect this from Taliban Government
    Should you not be saying: "After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist governments – I dont expect this from our Lankan government of course."

  250. Only yesterday, people dismissed the need for GSP+ and boasted of the 100 country support. Now suddenly the reality seems to be sinking in. Wait for a few months – hopefully the GSP+ is cut off. Wait for the war crime investigations in US and be prepared for another round of economic sanctions. I suggest SL rather cleans up the mess and gives its people the due freedom in the next two months – then even GSP+ could be retained.

    Not asking for GSP+ – but the support of others governments to see things right !! :o

    Should you not be saying: “After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist governments – I dont expect this from our Lankan government of course.”

    No No No :o – Illai – Taliban – Terrorist Government :( – Sri Lanka Government – democratically elected :) – No Terrorist – U understand ?? Theriya Illei ??

    Only would like to see the world support GOSL because the world it self needs peace and the world it self is facing Terrorism. If not, it will boomerang towards the west than towards the East… I hope that they will find peace in ME too – may be wipe out the terrorists.. At the moment I don't see it happening with Aerica not taking enough measures to eradicate the Terrorism – can't blame as it is not in their territory..

    The IDP's will be released for sure…. Support will speed up the process – I feel sorry for the poor people too – most of the time, doing the harder things in life ensures your life to be all Rosy !

    At least I am getting responses from the Humannnnnn !! But still no reply to the dying question …. ?? Humannn Would do good in the next Avurudu festival sports event of climbing the Grease Pole – Lissala Yanna Dakshaya !! Nallam !! Ela Kiri !! 9oh how can I forget the Smiley's :) :) :)

  251. Not asking for GSP+ – but the support of others governments to see things right !!
    Oh, okay point noted. Wait and watch.

  252. Nothing to wait, But can watch – not that much of a serious matter anyways… even not as serious as the issue of the IDP's and Terrorism…

    Just that it's better to be in harmony with everyone than have bitterness….

    All in all, I also trust that the west wouldn't want another anti western country rallying around China and Russia – India is on their own as well and glad that India is with SL…- Location wise, SL is important to all parties too… Actually they have the greatest opportunity in Sri Lanka to be the link between the west and the Anti-west…

    Human – Do you agree that LTTE were Terrorists and they disrupted the civil society in Sri Lanka ?? (Lissana Gaha yanna epa)

  253. Humann !!

    Extremely despicable and stinkingly offensive. I think either Mr.Jim Pappa should be banned or these sorts of comments deleted.

    I understand that your stand is that you can write any “Cow Dung” here and when I write in the same tone with a different opinion it becomes “Offensive”…

  254. Mango !!

    Indeed my stand – there are ways things are done and there should be some responsibility when tackling issues – specially a big issue as this which effects a whole nation…

    I personally feel that undue pressure is quite irresponsible at a time where the Chief of UN had visited and given the green light to the SL government’s effort.

    Still I feel that this is again something that is done willfully than being purpose oriented as the Tamilnadu Officials gave the OK too… Some time back they were opposing the war it self – so if they visited the location and are overwhelmed by the situation, I don’t see any reason as to why anyone who is really interested in the subject matter could take their word – The Indian government just released around USD 500 mil(if I remember the figure right) for rehab after going through the Tamilnadu report.

    P.S. Well, there is a place at the Wijerama Mw, Barnes Place Junction. A 2 story building fully AC’d ample parking space and a Helipad.. I can arrange for a landing strip for a private jet too – i.e. if you are interested….

  255. Dearest Human !!

    Again an inappropriate comparison. The problem is that the Sinhalese are drinking the porridge while the Tamils are getting dirty.

    If you are talking in “”Literal terms””, Why do they get dirty & Who said so ?? BTW< we eat rice and curry and my recent visit to the East, my Tamil friends gave me Chapathi !

    And your definition of temporary is more than a year and that is unacceptable confinement particularly given that the world has no clue of what is happening there.

    Yep Definition – it is subjective – I define it as a very short period compared to 30 years – and did you notice how soon this year of 2009 passed by – I mean after all the drama that happened ?? – 30 years..mmm.. I don’t remember where it started :( !!

    Also I do not want to fit into boots that smell of war crimes and HR violations, even if you might want to carry it around on your head due to the blind adulation you have.

    Or should I call it conveniently slipping through the back door without answering the question ?? (Bad Boy !!)

    On sanctions, please dont be naive. None of these 100 countries give you revenue – please analyse the finances of your country – then we will talk. One man getting arrested in NY has crashed your indices by 5 percent in two days – that is the state of the economy. The triumphalist attitude of the government and people like you has made you all forget reality. The removal of GSP plus (I pray it happens) is a huge blow if you did not realize – if you still have not learnt your lesson, please wait boldly for the American sanctions.

    My Country !! What is your country may I ask please ??
    See Human – the thing is when you are sleeping on the mat, you roll over to the floor – not fall down – so you could hear Mr. MR singing “I will Survive” during his morning shower :) !! – I think you have a “Hate Sri Lanka and Singhalees” attitude than “Save Tamils” Attitude.. :( :( :( – and you call me a Racist – I love my Tamil brotheren – So please don’t call me so in future.. (Tharaha Wenawa Honde !!)

    If you had read the report Jim published re. GSP+, it doesn’t quite go against the government either – it basically stands with the government from my point of view… Anyways, it will be for 6 months – and since 6 months has already passed by from the 1 year I mentioned, we should be fine :) :) :) – (Go Sri Lanka – One Nation, One Flag, One big happy family)

    Btw your inappropriate usage of smileys and sadistic laughter while talking of human suffering is disgusting and offensive – not to forget some of your deplorable comments. I request you to exercise caution in your comments and language, otherwise I think the editors should seriously think of blocking you.

    Hey – I use smileys because I am happy that we (Whole of Sri Lanka) are finally free…. – Join me will you please… Let’s rebuild the nation together so that at least our children would have the childhood and youth that we never had (assuming you are my age or close)

    I told you before also noh.. my laguage iskills are pretty bad Noh… So Please pardon me my brother !! I am only answering you in my own style noh.. So please don’t take it as offensive – I don’t say that you are offensive Noh.. ??
    I hope that Jim and others would also understand that I am replying you only and not in a offensive tone, nor laguage… ( I actually changed the tone, cause I was told that it was degrading before – so now I am more cautious :) – doing a good job Noh ??

    Also would like to remind the following on a more serious note !!

    Answer me please here – and to the point…

    If the LTTE guys in the camp escape and create problems again, what would you do if you were the president of SL ?? (Let’s try get in to the poor fella’s boots ??) – (now he has new boots – No Blood – have Dove’s feathers !!)

  256. Human !!

    Don’t you think that you should ask for banning of Posting Stuff to the blog – I mean why drag Poor Buddha in to it ? Forgotten that there are Tamil Buddhists and that Religion doesn’t demarcate Ethnicity ?? – Just a Suggestion…. !

  257. Mr.Mango,

    I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed. I think there is a need for urgency on part of SL government to resettle people. These people have faced the worst in their life – the shelling, the trauma of seeing their near and dear ones die in front of their eyes (did you see Mr.Jim Pappa’s reaction to the Colombo attack, they have seen far worse things) and now they need emotional rehabilitation, punishing them further with this detention is cruel. Sorry dont reply back with your standard LTTE answer.

    Mr.Mango, on the elite cubicle – I will sponsor it in exchange for you to write with moral conscience, assuming you have it :)

  258. I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed.,/i>

    Angry words from an angry man !!!

    The great Ghandi has told it is not good to get angry and he has used a certain verb to describe angry people… I will not use it as it might be “Offensive”

    What happens when you start beating up a Lion ?? The fellow get’s even more furious – Fight backs harder – till death!!

    People indeed went through HELL because of Terrorist – I would like to actually ask those people whether they wish to go back a few months – back to the claws of the unholy tiger ? People who are already comfortable in the cubical might not actually know this though they pretend to write on behalf of them….. I mean – seriously !!

    The world it self is divided when it comes to the issue in SL. What happened in Genve some time back is where the west was defeated by Asia, Middle East, Africa and South America (the Security council was it?) There will be a huge possibility that the world will keep arguing to and for regarding the issue. But, It will finally be Sri Lanka’s call… Best is to work with the Government so that things would happen faster..

    I guess some of you have already jumped to the conclusion that MR is a liar and he will not keep his promise of developing the North – or at least you know it is happening, but going ahead with the spread of false propaganda just to promote your interests..

    As some of you might hope for GSP+ not to happen, I sincerely hope that the other governments will see the right picture and be with Sri Lanka at this time where the nation stands to rise as one… That will help all Sri Lankans a big way…. (After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist Governments – I don’t expect this from Taliban Government)

  259. As some of you might hope for GSP+ not to happen, I sincerely hope that the other governments will see the right picture and be with Sri Lanka at this time where the nation stands to rise as one… That will help all Sri Lankans a big way…

    Only yesterday, people dismissed the need for GSP+ and boasted of the 100 country support. Now suddenly the reality seems to be sinking in. Wait for a few months – hopefully the GSP+ is cut off. Wait for the war crime investigations in US and be prepared for another round of economic sanctions. I suggest SL rather cleans up the mess and gives its people the due freedom in the next two months – then even GSP+ could be retained.

    After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist Governments – I don’t expect this from Taliban Government
    Should you not be saying: “After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist governments – I dont expect this from our Lankan government of course.”

  260. Nothing to wait, But can watch – not that much of a serious matter anyways…
    Alas, There lies the extraordinary extent to which triumphalism can blind people. It blinds people to the suffering of fellow humans and their own pitfalls. The world only can warn and throw some light – but then if you are blinded of what point is the light?

  261. Alas, There lies the extraordinary extent to which triumphalism can blind people. It blinds people to the suffering of fellow humans and their own pitfalls. The world only can warn and throw some light – but then if you are blinded of what point is the light?

    The frog inside the well doesn't see the opportunities that are out side :O… May be SL has realized that there are opportunities elsewhere too… where as some will still want to be comfortable inside the well… The Light is at the end of the Tunnel – You are blind in the dark anyway – no use of eyes even in the dark… Get out of the tunnel and may be, you'd make use of the eyes… :) :D !!

  262. To Jim McDonald:

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is. Given that AI is extremely concerned on the crisis that is continuing unabated, should not AI be sending out a SOS signal to the US government and European powers at some point that a stronger intervention is clearly needed?

  263. Only yesterday, people dismissed the need for GSP+ and boasted of the 100 country support. Now suddenly the reality seems to be sinking in. Wait for a few months – hopefully the GSP+ is cut off. Wait for the war crime investigations in US and be prepared for another round of economic sanctions. I suggest SL rather cleans up the mess and gives its people the due freedom in the next two months – then even GSP+ could be retained.

    Not asking for GSP+ – but the support of others governments to see things right !! :o

    Should you not be saying: “After all they are responsible governments and not Terrorist governments – I dont expect this from our Lankan government of course.”

    No No No :o – Illai – Taliban – Terrorist Government :( – Sri Lanka Government – democratically elected :) – No Terrorist – U understand ?? Theriya Illei ??

    Only would like to see the world support GOSL because the world it self needs peace and the world it self is facing Terrorism. If not, it will boomerang towards the west than towards the East… I hope that they will find peace in ME too – may be wipe out the terrorists.. At the moment I don’t see it happening with Aerica not taking enough measures to eradicate the Terrorism – can’t blame as it is not in their territory..

    The IDP’s will be released for sure…. Support will speed up the process – I feel sorry for the poor people too – most of the time, doing the harder things in life ensures your life to be all Rosy !

    At least I am getting responses from the Humannnnnn !! But still no reply to the dying question …. ?? Humannn Would do good in the next Avurudu festival sports event of climbing the Grease Pole – Lissala Yanna Dakshaya !! Nallam !! Ela Kiri !! 9oh how can I forget the Smiley’s :) :) :)

  264. Not asking for GSP+ – but the support of others governments to see things right !!
    Oh, okay point noted. Wait and watch.

  265. Nothing to wait, But can watch – not that much of a serious matter anyways… even not as serious as the issue of the IDP’s and Terrorism…

    Just that it’s better to be in harmony with everyone than have bitterness….

    All in all, I also trust that the west wouldn’t want another anti western country rallying around China and Russia – India is on their own as well and glad that India is with SL…- Location wise, SL is important to all parties too… Actually they have the greatest opportunity in Sri Lanka to be the link between the west and the Anti-west…

    Human – Do you agree that LTTE were Terrorists and they disrupted the civil society in Sri Lanka ?? (Lissana Gaha yanna epa)

  266. Just for people to realize the dependency of SL on EU and US here are some stats:
    "In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka's largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent." http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSC

    So that makes it a whopping 60% of your export market. That is going to be the impact of sanctions if they are imposed. Seriously I think just writing off for US and EU for newfound relations overnight would be a perfect catalyst for the country to go down the drain. Yes it might be possible to get consumers elsewhere – but in countries like China and India, there is a strong local manufacturing presence and these countries would like to refrain from importing and instead give work and income to its own huge population.

    Yes, this is now getting off-topic and I will refrain from talking about SL economy from now on.

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

  267. Just for people to realize the dependency of SL on EU and US here are some stats:
    "In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka's largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent." http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSC

    So that makes it a whopping 60% of your export market. That is going to be the impact of sanctions if they are imposed. Seriously I think just writing off for US and EU for newfound relations overnight would be a perfect catalyst for the country to go down the drain. Yes it might be possible to get consumers elsewhere – but in countries like China and India, there is a strong local manufacturing presence and these countries would like to refrain from importing and instead give work and income to its own huge population.

    Yes, this is now getting off-topic and I will refrain from talking about SL economy from now on.

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

  268. Just for people to realize the dependency of SL on EU and US here are some stats:
    "In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka's largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent." http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSC

    So that makes it a whopping 60% of your export market. That is going to be the impact of sanctions if they are imposed. Seriously I think just writing off for US and EU for newfound relations overnight would be a perfect catalyst for the country to go down the drain. Yes it might be possible to get consumers elsewhere – but in countries like China and India, there is a strong local manufacturing presence and these countries would like to refrain from importing and instead give work and income to its own huge population.

    Yes, this is now getting off-topic and I will refrain from talking about SL economy from now on.

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

  269. Nothing to wait, But can watch – not that much of a serious matter anyways…
    Alas, There lies the extraordinary extent to which triumphalism can blind people. It blinds people to the suffering of fellow humans and their own pitfalls. The world only can warn and throw some light – but then if you are blinded of what point is the light?

  270. Alas, There lies the extraordinary extent to which triumphalism can blind people. It blinds people to the suffering of fellow humans and their own pitfalls. The world only can warn and throw some light – but then if you are blinded of what point is the light?

    The frog inside the well doesn’t see the opportunities that are out side :O… May be SL has realized that there are opportunities elsewhere too… where as some will still want to be comfortable inside the well… The Light is at the end of the Tunnel – You are blind in the dark anyway – no use of eyes even in the dark… Get out of the tunnel and may be, you’d make use of the eyes… :) :D !!

  271. To Jim McDonald:

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is. Given that AI is extremely concerned on the crisis that is continuing unabated, should not AI be sending out a SOS signal to the US government and European powers at some point that a stronger intervention is clearly needed?

  272. Jim Pappa,

    The IDP’s will be released for sure…. Support will speed up the process – I feel sorry for the poor people too – most of the time, doing the harder things in life ensures your life to be all Rosy !

    Just feeling sorry the 300 000 innocent civilians from the concentration camps will not do. You are truly blind for the painful and un-ending agony of your fellow human beings.

    What you are actually doing to alleviate their plight?

    I think, at the heart of this Sri Lankan conflict is racism. And the insecurity, envy and hatred that always accompany racism.

    A common explanatory adage for the bitter conflict today is that the Sinhala people suffer from ‘insecurity’; that they see themselves as a unique island people under perpetual threat.

    Apparently there are ‘only’ 17 million Sinhalese in the world, in fear of being swamped by the billion Indians across the Palk Straits, especially the 60 million Tamils – because there are ‘already’ 3 million Tamils on the island.

    ‘Surrounded’ by these ‘others’ in the region, the Sinhalese are reportedly a ‘majority with a minority complex’.

    The irrationality of this ‘minority while a majority’ complex bemuses me as does the racist ‘immigration angst’ which happened immediately after independence, when the Sri Lankans enthusiastically supported the stripping of citizenship from a million ‘Indian’ Tamils who had been brought to the island by the British generations earlier to work on the plantations.

    What was served by this act of pure racism?

    What were these people who had been born on the island and knew no other home expected to do?

    But the deep-seated racism in Sri Lanka is different. For the Tamils of the Northeast are not recent or arriving immigrants and this is not the usual angst of ‘integration’.

    Rather, the Tamil people have lived on the island in their own contiguous, distinct, geographical territory for millennia.

    Humanitarian Human

    I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed.

    I agree with you, Humanitarian Human, unfavorable GSP+ is a must.

    Unfortunately, the Sri Lankan Government understands only this kind of language. We need to do whatever we can to help the 300000 in the internment camps.

    The first thing is to unite and convince those who are willing to listen and then promote action.

    Withdrawing GSP+ is likely to convince Sri Lanka that it has to listen to others if it needs help from others. This will hit at Sri Lanka's economy which is at its rock bottom. Come to visit to my blog. There are many things to discuss.

    Mawatha Silva

  273. Just for people to realize the dependency of SL on EU and US here are some stats:
    “In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka’s largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent.”
    http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSCOL522523

    So that makes it a whopping 60% of your export market. That is going to be the impact of sanctions if they are imposed. Seriously I think just writing off for US and EU for newfound relations overnight would be a perfect catalyst for the country to go down the drain. Yes it might be possible to get consumers elsewhere – but in countries like China and India, there is a strong local manufacturing presence and these countries would like to refrain from importing and instead give work and income to its own huge population.

    Yes, this is now getting off-topic and I will refrain from talking about SL economy from now on.

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

  274. Jim Pappa,

    The IDP’s will be released for sure…. Support will speed up the process – I feel sorry for the poor people too – most of the time, doing the harder things in life ensures your life to be all Rosy !

    Just feeling sorry the 300 000 innocent civilians from the concentration camps will not do. You are truly blind for the painful and un-ending agony of your fellow human beings.

    What you are actually doing to alleviate their plight?

    I think, at the heart of this Sri Lankan conflict is racism. And the insecurity, envy and hatred that always accompany racism.

    A common explanatory adage for the bitter conflict today is that the Sinhala people suffer from ‘insecurity’; that they see themselves as a unique island people under perpetual threat.

    Apparently there are ‘only’ 17 million Sinhalese in the world, in fear of being swamped by the billion Indians across the Palk Straits, especially the 60 million Tamils – because there are ‘already’ 3 million Tamils on the island.

    ‘Surrounded’ by these ‘others’ in the region, the Sinhalese are reportedly a ‘majority with a minority complex’.

    The irrationality of this ‘minority while a majority’ complex bemuses me as does the racist ‘immigration angst’ which happened immediately after independence, when the Sri Lankans enthusiastically supported the stripping of citizenship from a million ‘Indian’ Tamils who had been brought to the island by the British generations earlier to work on the plantations.

    What was served by this act of pure racism?

    What were these people who had been born on the island and knew no other home expected to do?

    But the deep-seated racism in Sri Lanka is different. For the Tamils of the Northeast are not recent or arriving immigrants and this is not the usual angst of ‘integration’.

    Rather, the Tamil people have lived on the island in their own contiguous, distinct, geographical territory for millennia.

    Humanitarian Human

    I have clearly spelt out the need for sanctions – it is for you people to shed off your triumphalism and awake to reality. It is not for burdening the poor sections of the society and all sanctions are temporary – if the Government changes its attitude and gets reconciliatory, the sanctions will be removed.

    I agree with you, Humanitarian Human, unfavorable GSP+ is a must.

    Unfortunately, the Sri Lankan Government understands only this kind of language. We need to do whatever we can to help the 300000 in the internment camps.

    The first thing is to unite and convince those who are willing to listen and then promote action.

    Withdrawing GSP+ is likely to convince Sri Lanka that it has to listen to others if it needs help from others. This will hit at Sri Lanka’s economy which is at its rock bottom. Come to visit to my blog. There are many things to discuss.

    Mawatha Silva

  275. In response to Humanitarian Human's comment of Oct. 21, 7:31 A.M., AI is doing what we can about the ongoing crisis in Sri Lanka. If we have anything to say further publicly, I'll let you know. That's all I can promise.

  276. Humannn !!

    “In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka’s largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent.”

    Are you talking of total economic sanctions or GSP + here ?? I am sure that AI will have to file a HR case against the EU and US if they put a total Economic Sanction against Sri Lanka for no reason !!

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

    Who said that it would not happen and they would not release the IDP's ? (FYI, there are a handful of Singhalees & Muslims in there too – so it's not fair to use the word "TAMILS" for the IDP's – Let's call them Sri Lankan's if you really intend to "Ethnasize" them)

    I will talk of this in a following post addressed to more responsible people !!

  277. In response to Humanitarian Human’s comment of Oct. 21, 7:31 A.M., AI is doing what we can about the ongoing crisis in Sri Lanka. If we have anything to say further publicly, I’ll let you know. That’s all I can promise.

  278. Dear Shilva !!

    Answers to most of the questions you have thrown at me could have been sorted if you had answered the simple question I posted for you
    The issue here is that My self, Mango, Vichara and a few others answer the questions posted by you guys, where as you nicely slip away from the questions that we post – I commend the effort by Jim in that sense as he at least attempts to answer the once posted to him… Anyways, this has been your whole strategy for the past 30 years… Climbing the "Grease Pole" – Very Naughty !! :( :( :(

    What you are actually doing to alleviate their plight?

    FYI, 41,000 are being settled in Kilinochchi at this moment of me typing this message…_ YEY !! :) :) :D Many are to follow, but as I mentioned as in a zillion previous posts – it takes it's own course of time…

    I think, at the heart of this Sri Lankan conflict is racism. And the insecurity, envy and hatred that always accompany racism.

    Not true !!
    Racism is there among a handful of Singlahees as much as it's there with a handful of Tamils and Muslims living here… In a Multi-ethnic, multicultural society, if such discrepancy doesn't remain, that it self would become a Discrepancy… Brack Obama being a Black, if you tell me that there are no Black haters in your all worshiped USA and EU you need to go admit your self in a lunatic Asylum.. But, you never can say that a whole nation is Racial… At least not in Sri Lanka…. I trust that you know this too. Hence, I feel that you are just trying to create an issue here… :( – BAD BOY !!

    Apparently there are ‘only’ 17 million Sinhalese in the world, in fear of being swamped by the billion Indians across the Palk Straits, especially the 60 million Tamils – because there are ‘already’ 3 million Tamils on the island.

    Excellent !! – (Yephee :D – STRIKE ONE)
    May I ask where the Majority of Tamils are ?? Ain't that should be called Homeland ???

    There is no insecurity as Long as the 17 million + the "2 Million Tamils" and the 1 Million of reset of the ethnic groups could live in One Sri Lanka… The issue is when 2 Million ask for 1/3rd of the land and 3/4th of Coast… Since you try to project your self as a "LOGICAL" person – what's the logic behind that ?? – (oops sorry – forgot that you don't answer questions, but slip off from them.. :( – BAD BOY !!)

    There are many countries in the world with lesser populations of Ethnic divide living excellently …(U Know Y ? – Let me answer since you slip off – Because there are no "Illogical" people living in those countries who are a Pain in the @$$ to others)

    What was served by this act of pure racism?

    Or creating an own Sri Lankan Identity as it was a British Identity we had till then ?? Nothing wrong in bringing back a proud history of more than 2,500 years ha?? – You wanted it to be British ? – You guys could have plugged in as educated gentleman then, than shout out like "Sakkili" without providing a solution.. :( :( – No Use Brain – BAD LEADERS !!

    What were these people who had been born on the island and knew no other home expected to do?

    NO understand Question :( :( :(

    Rather, the Tamil people have lived on the island in their own contiguous, distinct, geographical territory for millennia.

    Yep – Sri Lankan kings married from south India, they came and fought wars with us, they came with the south indian Kings who attacked us and didn't leave as the Sri Lankan kings didn't chase them off etc… Many reasons … See what a beautiful friendship we have had throughout History ?? :) – We should intermarry again !! :D

    Withdrawing GSP+ is likely to convince Sri Lanka that it has to listen to others if it needs help from others. This will hit at Sri Lanka’s economy which is at its rock bottom. Come to visit to my blog. There are many things to discuss.

    Love your imagination – Go Silva Go !! :) *Whistle* …. :D

  279. Are you talking of total economic sanctions or GSP + here ?? I am sure that AI will have to file a HR case against the EU and US if they put a total Economic Sanction against Sri Lanka for no reason !!
    You were belittling the trade relation that SL has with US and Europe. I think the stats were presented for you to update yourself.
    You were ridiculing Jim McDonald and AI (see some of your earlier derogatory remarks)for their work in SL and suddenly you seek AI's intervention if sanctions are going to be imposed on the country – fanstatic doublespeak.

  280. Dearest Jim !!

    1. As I type this message, 41,000 "Former IDP's" are being re-settled in Kilinochchi.

    2. Close to another 50,000 has been resettled prior to this in various other areas including the first cleared areas of Mannar.

    3. A democratically elected Government including it's president had promised to carry out the re-settlement process and given a time plan to do so.

    4. The Infrastructure in the war effected ares are carried out in double quick time.

    5. Re-building of houses that were destroyed during the war by both parties is happening and Government money is being spent for this purpose.

    6. The government buildings that were used by the Terrorist LTTE are being re-done to facilitate the Civilians that would move in to the areas within the next few months

    Considering the above factors (And many other factors that doesn't cross my mind at this point of time – which I am sure, as a person working for a responsible organization, you are aware of) it is Cristal clear that the government has a plan and are carrying it out as per this plan.

    Hence, I don't see any reason as to why you should apply unwarranted pressure on the government to do so… There is a "Acceptable way" for anything to happen which includes time lines, speed etc.. and the government is carrying out an absolute brilliant plan after a 30 year curse.

    From the questions posted in vain in this forum for they never result in answers, the people who are opposing the idea and applying undue pressure on good organizations as AI to in return apply pressure on the government of SL, I have gathered that they have a different agenda and in my mind it is to go back to the dark days of War and unrest.

    Hence, I, as a human being, trusting that a responsible organization as AI would treat my HR requirements as priority, humbly request from you to "immediately STOP"

    1. Applying undue pressure on my country's Democratically Elected Government
    2. Refrain from carrying out any bad publicity without proper investigations against the country or it's democratically elected government
    3. Work with this Democratically elected government for the well-being of all Sri Lankns.
    4. Apply the same principal to the rest of the world to make it a better place for them too…

    Case Closed !!

  281. There are many countries in the world with lesser populations of Ethnic divide living excellently …(U Know Y ? – Let me answer since you slip off – Because there are no “Illogical” people living in those countries who are a Pain in the @$$ to others)

    Is that the way you treat Tamils on your island? I find this extremely derogatory and offensive and should not have been used in this forum. I think Jim MD already asked people not to use derogatory remarks in this forum about anyone – be it against him, others or the suffering Tamils. Anyways let these remarks remain as a reflective reminder of how the average Sinhalese views his fellow Tamil citizens and the world is expecting peaceful coexistence.

    God save the Tamils!

  282. Thanks. I am an idiot and illogical and a Pain in ….

    Okay I hereby refrain from discussing with you on this forum. I think AI editors will do well to note your thoughts and the offensive nature of those.

  283. Okay I hereby refrain from discussing with you on this forum.

    I feel sorry for you if you feel that "twisting of words and giving them new definitions" are called Discussions !!

  284. Recently the Sri Lankan Government had a huge media blitz with the announcement to the world media on the release of 6.000 of IDP’s from the concentration camps.

    Mavai Senathiraja, a parliamentarian from the Tamil National Alliance(TNA), however reported that in fact only 580 of these people were released, but were immediately re arrested and sent to another concentration camp.

    Media Minister Lakshman Yapa Abeywardena said it was not possible due to the extent to which they checked and rechecked for the umpteenth time while they were languished concentration camps.

    This contradicts the word of the Sri Lankan Army official in the city who confirmed the need for the security checks begin all over again and this was delaying their release.

    In my mind this is another excuse, as is the statement that they cannot be released before their houses are repaired.

    It is hard to believe this latest Sri Lankan Government’s fibs because of the past statements made by the president in Time magazine. He was reported saying there have been zero casualties of the war.

  285. Stop Crime against Humanity ,

    Thank you for the informative links.
    I was particularly disturbed by your post about a Tamil child, who was arrested under Prevention of Terrorism Act (PTA) at the age of 14 and has been in prison ever since. For 15 years!! Shocking!!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about? It seems to me that the Sri Lankan Justice has failed miserably in this Teardrop Terror Island.

    Humanitarian Human

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is.

    Your concern about the cruel inaction of the SL government is valid. As you know, in May of 2009, the Sri Lankan government made a pledge to return the bulk of the 300,000 civilians confined in internment camps to their homes within 180 days.

    But more than 130 days have passed since that pledge,
    and the Sri Lankan government has only released around five per cent.

    The slow progress is disturbing and indicates the will for reconciliation is lacking.

    Let me remind you that the vast majority are civilians who are being held in violation of international law.

    No other country in the world holds hundreds of thousands of displaced people in de facto prisons.

    International aid organisations have estimated that at least 50,000 are children.

    What have these children done wrong to grow up in overcrowded and unsanitary camps behind barbed wire and thousands of military guards?

    Humanitarian Human

    Can write a small précis on a Damilvany Gnanakumar story
    and post it here and on my blog http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/sep/16

    thanks

  286. The war crime report of US is also out. Let us get mentally prepared to hear blatant and gruesome HR violations from the SLA. http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/22/us-em

    Anyways as IDP detention continues, it is turning into a crime of unbelievable proportions – these people need emotional rehabilitation – they dont have the physical or emotional strength after a gruesome war. The SL government should immediately release these people – dont they realize that they get nothing by holding on to these people? – nothing at all. Even if they want to derive sadistic pleasure, haven't they got enough of it by now? Enough of it by the detention for more than 130 days? Yes, SL government can say there are "terrorists" and there are "land mines", but they know the "truth" and they know they get no mileage by continued detention – these are hapless civilians – they get nothing by punishing them – the sinhala voter is anyways going to vote for the government whether it is 130 or 160 or 200 days. In fact these voters will sing praises of MR when the government releases them (we need to go no far than read comments from some of our very own fellow commentors to realize this) – why not do it now? Detention is only leading to the economy getting affected unnecessarily and the foreign relations getting jinxed up.

    Unfortunately they are no sane minds to analyse the above facts and act. We have few representatives of the thinking of the government in this very forum who dont understand the above.

  287. Stop Crime against Humanity ,

    Thank you for the informative links.
    I was particularly disturbed by your post about a Tamil child, who was arrested under Prevention of Terrorism Act (PTA) at the age of 14 and has been in prison ever since. For 15 years!! Shocking!!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about? It seems to me that the Sri Lankan Justice has failed miserably in this Teardrop Terror Island.

    Humanitarian Human

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is.

    Your concern about the cruel inaction of the SL government is valid. As you know, in May of 2009, the Sri Lankan government made a pledge to return the bulk of the 300,000 civilians confined in internment camps to their homes within 180 days.

    But more than 130 days have passed since that pledge,
    and the Sri Lankan government has only released around five per cent.

    The slow progress is disturbing and indicates the will for reconciliation is lacking.

    Let me remind you that the vast majority are civilians who are being held in violation of international law.

    No other country in the world holds hundreds of thousands of displaced people in de facto prisons.

    International aid organisations have estimated that at least 50,000 are children.

    What have these children done wrong to grow up in overcrowded and unsanitary camps behind barbed wire and thousands of military guards?

    Humanitarian Human

    Can write a small précis on a Damilvany Gnanakumar story
    and post it here and on my blog http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/sep/16

    thanks

  288. Stop Crime against Humanity ,

    Thank you for the informative links.
    I was particularly disturbed by your post about a Tamil child, who was arrested under Prevention of Terrorism Act (PTA) at the age of 14 and has been in prison ever since. For 15 years!! Shocking!!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about? It seems to me that the Sri Lankan Justice has failed miserably in this Teardrop Terror Island.

    Humanitarian Human

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is.

    Your concern about the cruel inaction of the SL government is valid. As you know, in May of 2009, the Sri Lankan government made a pledge to return the bulk of the 300,000 civilians confined in internment camps to their homes within 180 days.

    But more than 130 days have passed since that pledge,
    and the Sri Lankan government has only released around five per cent.

    The slow progress is disturbing and indicates the will for reconciliation is lacking.

    Let me remind you that the vast majority are civilians who are being held in violation of international law.

    No other country in the world holds hundreds of thousands of displaced people in de facto prisons.

    International aid organisations have estimated that at least 50,000 are children.

    What have these children done wrong to grow up in overcrowded and unsanitary camps behind barbed wire and thousands of military guards?

    Humanitarian Human

    Can write a small précis on a Damilvany Gnanakumar story
    and post it here and on my blog http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/sep/16

    thanks

  289. Humannn !!

    “In 2008, the European Union was Sri Lanka’s largest export market, accounting for 36 percent of its $8.1 billion in total exports, followed by the United States with 24 percent.”

    Are you talking of total economic sanctions or GSP + here ?? I am sure that AI will have to file a HR case against the EU and US if they put a total Economic Sanction against Sri Lanka for no reason !!

    But independently, it is high time SL releases the Tamils. Forgetting international pressure, SL should listen to its own moral conscience and put an end to the misery of these people.

    Who said that it would not happen and they would not release the IDP’s ? (FYI, there are a handful of Singhalees & Muslims in there too – so it’s not fair to use the word “TAMILS” for the IDP’s – Let’s call them Sri Lankan’s if you really intend to “Ethnasize” them)

    I will talk of this in a following post addressed to more responsible people !!

  290. The war crime report of US is also out. Let us get mentally prepared to hear blatant and gruesome HR violations from the SLA. http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/22/us-em

    Anyways as IDP detention continues, it is turning into a crime of unbelievable proportions – these people need emotional rehabilitation – they dont have the physical or emotional strength after a gruesome war. The SL government should immediately release these people – dont they realize that they get nothing by holding on to these people? – nothing at all. Even if they want to derive sadistic pleasure, haven't they got enough of it by now? Enough of it by the detention for more than 130 days? Yes, SL government can say there are "terrorists" and there are "land mines", but they know the "truth" and they know they get no mileage by continued detention – these are hapless civilians – they get nothing by punishing them – the sinhala voter is anyways going to vote for the government whether it is 130 or 160 or 200 days. In fact these voters will sing praises of MR when the government releases them (we need to go no far than read comments from some of our very own fellow commentors to realize this) – why not do it now? Detention is only leading to the economy getting affected unnecessarily and the foreign relations getting jinxed up.

    Unfortunately they are no sane minds to analyse the above facts and act. We have few representatives of the thinking of the government in this very forum who dont understand the above.

  291. The war crime report of US is also out. Let us get mentally prepared to hear blatant and gruesome HR violations from the SLA. http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/22/us-em

    Anyways as IDP detention continues, it is turning into a crime of unbelievable proportions – these people need emotional rehabilitation – they dont have the physical or emotional strength after a gruesome war. The SL government should immediately release these people – dont they realize that they get nothing by holding on to these people? – nothing at all. Even if they want to derive sadistic pleasure, haven't they got enough of it by now? Enough of it by the detention for more than 130 days? Yes, SL government can say there are "terrorists" and there are "land mines", but they know the "truth" and they know they get no mileage by continued detention – these are hapless civilians – they get nothing by punishing them – the sinhala voter is anyways going to vote for the government whether it is 130 or 160 or 200 days. In fact these voters will sing praises of MR when the government releases them (we need to go no far than read comments from some of our very own fellow commentors to realize this) – why not do it now? Detention is only leading to the economy getting affected unnecessarily and the foreign relations getting jinxed up.

    Unfortunately they are no sane minds to analyse the above facts and act. We have few representatives of the thinking of the government in this very forum who dont understand the above.

  292. Dear Shilva !!

    Answers to most of the questions you have thrown at me could have been sorted if you had answered the simple question I posted for you
    The issue here is that My self, Mango, Vichara and a few others answer the questions posted by you guys, where as you nicely slip away from the questions that we post – I commend the effort by Jim in that sense as he at least attempts to answer the once posted to him… Anyways, this has been your whole strategy for the past 30 years… Climbing the “Grease Pole” – Very Naughty !! :( :( :(

    What you are actually doing to alleviate their plight?

    FYI, 41,000 are being settled in Kilinochchi at this moment of me typing this message…_ YEY !! :) :) :D Many are to follow, but as I mentioned as in a zillion previous posts – it takes it’s own course of time…

    I think, at the heart of this Sri Lankan conflict is racism. And the insecurity, envy and hatred that always accompany racism.

    Not true !!
    Racism is there among a handful of Singlahees as much as it’s there with a handful of Tamils and Muslims living here… In a Multi-ethnic, multicultural society, if such discrepancy doesn’t remain, that it self would become a Discrepancy… Brack Obama being a Black, if you tell me that there are no Black haters in your all worshiped USA and EU you need to go admit your self in a lunatic Asylum.. But, you never can say that a whole nation is Racial… At least not in Sri Lanka…. I trust that you know this too. Hence, I feel that you are just trying to create an issue here… :( – BAD BOY !!

    Apparently there are ‘only’ 17 million Sinhalese in the world, in fear of being swamped by the billion Indians across the Palk Straits, especially the 60 million Tamils – because there are ‘already’ 3 million Tamils on the island.

    Excellent !! – (Yephee :D – STRIKE ONE)
    May I ask where the Majority of Tamils are ?? Ain’t that should be called Homeland ???

    There is no insecurity as Long as the 17 million + the “2 Million Tamils” and the 1 Million of reset of the ethnic groups could live in One Sri Lanka… The issue is when 2 Million ask for 1/3rd of the land and 3/4th of Coast… Since you try to project your self as a “LOGICAL” person – what’s the logic behind that ?? – (oops sorry – forgot that you don’t answer questions, but slip off from them.. :( – BAD BOY !!)

    There are many countries in the world with lesser populations of Ethnic divide living excellently …(U Know Y ? – Let me answer since you slip off – Because there are no “Illogical” people living in those countries who are a Pain in the @$$ to others)

    What was served by this act of pure racism?

    Or creating an own Sri Lankan Identity as it was a British Identity we had till then ?? Nothing wrong in bringing back a proud history of more than 2,500 years ha?? – You wanted it to be British ? – You guys could have plugged in as educated gentleman then, than shout out like “Sakkili” without providing a solution.. :( :( – No Use Brain – BAD LEADERS !!

    What were these people who had been born on the island and knew no other home expected to do? -

    NO understand Question :( :( :(

    Rather, the Tamil people have lived on the island in their own contiguous, distinct, geographical territory for millennia.

    Yep – Sri Lankan kings married from south India, they came and fought wars with us, they came with the south indian Kings who attacked us and didn’t leave as the Sri Lankan kings didn’t chase them off etc… Many reasons … See what a beautiful friendship we have had throughout History ?? :) – We should intermarry again !! :D

    Withdrawing GSP+ is likely to convince Sri Lanka that it has to listen to others if it needs help from others. This will hit at Sri Lanka’s economy which is at its rock bottom. Come to visit to my blog. There are many things to discuss.

    Love your imagination – Go Silva Go !! :) *Whistle* …. :D

  293. Are you talking of total economic sanctions or GSP + here ?? I am sure that AI will have to file a HR case against the EU and US if they put a total Economic Sanction against Sri Lanka for no reason !!
    You were belittling the trade relation that SL has with US and Europe. I think the stats were presented for you to update yourself.
    You were ridiculing Jim McDonald and AI (see some of your earlier derogatory remarks)for their work in SL and suddenly you seek AI’s intervention if sanctions are going to be imposed on the country – fanstatic doublespeak.

  294. Dearest Jim !!

    1. As I type this message, 41,000 “Former IDP’s” are being re-settled in Kilinochchi.

    2. Close to another 50,000 has been resettled prior to this in various other areas including the first cleared areas of Mannar.

    3. A democratically elected Government including it’s president had promised to carry out the re-settlement process and given a time plan to do so.

    4. The Infrastructure in the war effected ares are carried out in double quick time.

    5. Re-building of houses that were destroyed during the war by both parties is happening and Government money is being spent for this purpose.

    6. The government buildings that were used by the Terrorist LTTE are being re-done to facilitate the Civilians that would move in to the areas within the next few months

    Considering the above factors (And many other factors that doesn’t cross my mind at this point of time – which I am sure, as a person working for a responsible organization, you are aware of) it is Cristal clear that the government has a plan and are carrying it out as per this plan.

    Hence, I don’t see any reason as to why you should apply unwarranted pressure on the government to do so… There is a “Acceptable way” for anything to happen which includes time lines, speed etc.. and the government is carrying out an absolute brilliant plan after a 30 year curse.

    From the questions posted in vain in this forum for they never result in answers, the people who are opposing the idea and applying undue pressure on good organizations as AI to in return apply pressure on the government of SL, I have gathered that they have a different agenda and in my mind it is to go back to the dark days of War and unrest.

    Hence, I, as a human being, trusting that a responsible organization as AI would treat my HR requirements as priority, humbly request from you to “immediately STOP”

    1. Applying undue pressure on my country’s Democratically Elected Government
    2. Refrain from carrying out any bad publicity without proper investigations against the country or it’s democratically elected government
    3. Work with this Democratically elected government for the well-being of all Sri Lankns.
    4. Apply the same principal to the rest of the world to make it a better place for them too…

    Case Closed !!

  295. There are many countries in the world with lesser populations of Ethnic divide living excellently …(U Know Y ? – Let me answer since you slip off – Because there are no “Illogical” people living in those countries who are a Pain in the @$$ to others)

    Is that the way you treat Tamils on your island? I find this extremely derogatory and offensive and should not have been used in this forum. I think Jim MD already asked people not to use derogatory remarks in this forum about anyone – be it against him, others or the suffering Tamils. Anyways let these remarks remain as a reflective reminder of how the average Sinhalese views his fellow Tamil citizens and the world is expecting peaceful coexistence.

    God save the Tamils!

  296. Thanks. I am an idiot and illogical and a Pain in ….

    Okay I hereby refrain from discussing with you on this forum. I think AI editors will do well to note your thoughts and the offensive nature of those.

  297. Okay I hereby refrain from discussing with you on this forum.

    I feel sorry for you if you feel that “twisting of words and giving them new definitions” are called Discussions !!

  298. Dear Mr. Kumaran Balenthran !!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about?

    Let me take you back to the years 1987-1989.

    There was a Terrorist Sri Lankan group where Majority was Singhlaees who Called them selves the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna (JVP)

    Some of the people who took part in the crimes occurred are still in prison after 20 years even though the JVP has grown to be a main stream political party in Sri Lanka after denouncing Terrorism…

    Hence, it again has nothing to do with any Race, but purely by the violent acts performed that it is decided whether a person should be imprisoned or not…

    If you wish a judiciary system of a country to treat Terrorists who are caught in any other way that imprisonment, I doubt whether there would be a requirement of a Judiciary system in the first place…

    Also, the photographs in your FB are quite saddening .. I have a heap of them too… mainly what happened in Colombo due to LTTE terrorism – Loads of School children, Clergy, Politicians (including Neelan T and Lakshman K). This is the exact past that I wouldn't want my self or even your good self to be in… Hence, rebuilding requires both of us to do a little bit more sacrifice…

  299. Recently the Sri Lankan Government had a huge media blitz with the announcement to the world media on the release of 6.000 of IDP’s from the concentration camps.

    Mavai Senathiraja, a parliamentarian from the Tamil National Alliance(TNA), however reported that in fact only 580 of these people were released, but were immediately re arrested and sent to another concentration camp.

    Media Minister Lakshman Yapa Abeywardena said it was not possible due to the extent to which they checked and rechecked for the umpteenth time while they were languished concentration camps.

    This contradicts the word of the Sri Lankan Army official in the city who confirmed the need for the security checks begin all over again and this was delaying their release.

    In my mind this is another excuse, as is the statement that they cannot be released before their houses are repaired.

    It is hard to believe this latest Sri Lankan Government’s fibs because of the past statements made by the president in Time magazine. He was reported saying there have been zero casualties of the war.

  300. The heartbreaking Damilvany Gnanakumar story is one many yet to be told.

    She was released recently from a Sri Lankan concentration camp. I would imagine for hefty sum of money.

    These SL Government‘s acts of mercy does not come cheap nowadays.

    For those four months, the 25-year-old British graduate was imprisoned behind razor wire inside the Sri Lanka's grim internment camps, home to nearly 300,000 people.

    The last time she publicly spoke about the conflict was from the hospital where she was working inside the ever-shrinking war zone in Sri Lanka's north-east.

    Then, the Sri Lankan army had surrounded the small sliver of land where the remnants of the Tamil Tiger guerrillas held out and where hundreds of thousands of civilians had taken refuge.

    She had been in despair: a shell had just struck the hospital and dozens were dead. "At the moment, it is like hell," she said then.

    The young mother was standing by the side of the road, clutching her baby.

    The baby was dead.

    Damilvany Gnanakumar watched as she tried to make a decision. Around them, thousands of people were picking their way between bodies strewn across the road, desperate to escape the fighting all around them.

    "The mother couldn't bring the dead body and she doesn't want to leave it as well. She was standing … holding the baby. She didn't know what to do …

    At the end, because of the shell bombing and people rushing – there were thousands and thousands of people, they were rushing in and pushing everyone – she just had to leave the baby at the side of the road, she had to leave the body there and come, she had no choice.

    And I was thinking in my mind 'What have the people done wrong?

    Why are they going through this, why is the international government not speaking up for them? I'm still asking."

    Gnanakumar was one of a small group of medics treating the wounded and providing a running commentary to the outside world from behind the lines. For months she had managed to stay alive while around her thousands died.

    At night, she lived in bunkers dug in the sand. During the day, she helped in the makeshift hospitals, dodging the shells and the bullets, tending the wounded and the dying, as the doctors tried to operate with butchers' knives and watered-down anesthetic.

    Now her damning account provides a powerful rebuke to the claims of the Sri Lankan president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, that the defeat of the Tamil Tigers was achieved without the spilling of a drop of civilian blood.

    Usually the Sri Lanka government's ground forces, done regular air raids by air force Kfir jets. But in early January artillery barrages began, forcing the population to move.

    That was when the reality of the war hit Gnanakumar for the first time.

    "It was raining and … you could see everywhere on the road the blood is running with the water and the bodies were left there because there was no-one to identify who was dead and who is alive, the bodies were just laid down on the floor and that's the first time I saw dead bodies and wounded people crying out, shouting."

    Wherever they stopped, they built a bunker, digging down until they could stand up in the hole, cutting down palm branches and laying them across the top for a roof and packing sandbags on the top and around the sides.

    As the frontline advanced, trapping as many as 300,000 people inside a shrinking enclave of LTTE-held land, Gnanakumar went to the makeshift government hospital, which had moved into a former primary school, and volunteered to help, dressing wounds and administering first aid.

    As the fighting intensified, they were treating as many as 500 people every day in two rooms.

    "They had a shortage of medicine but they had to somehow save the people. The last two weeks or so there was a shortage of everything."

    With replacement blood running out, she had to filter what she could from the patients through a cloth before feeding it back into their veins.

    When the anaesthetics ran short, they diluted them with distilled water. "I watched when there was a six-year-old boy," she said. "They had to take off the leg and also the arm, but they didn't have proper equipment, they just had a knife that the butchers use to cut the meat, and we have to use that to take off his leg and arm. He cried and cried."

    As the army closed in, it got worse.

    "People were running and running to get them safe away from the shell bombing, but they couldn't and it came to a point where we thought we are all going to die, there is no way we can be safe anymore here, but we just have to take it. I mean, you can't get out of the shell-bombing.

    I didn't think that I would be alive and I would be here now. I said OK, I'm going to die, that is the end of it.

    "One day I was inside the [operating] theatre and the next room was bombed.

    We had a lot of the treated people left in the room for the doctors to go and monitor and they all died in that shell bomb.

    And they [the Sri Lankan forces] again bombed the hospital and one of the doctors died in that."

    Inside the hospital, there was no respite. Gnanakumar could not take any more.

    On 13 May the hospital had been hit, killing about 50 people.

    "The bunker right next to ours had a shell on top of it and there were six people in the same family died and three were wounded.

    "I saw them … suddenly I start hearing people are crying out and I thought, it has to be somewhere really close …

    I came out of my tent and I saw blood everywhere and the people – I couldn't even imagine that place, there was blood and then the bodies were into pieces everywhere .

    In the last five days, she says, she believes about 20,000 people died. It is a very high estimate, though the UN has acknowledged the true death toll may never be known.

  301. Stop Crime against Humanity ,

    Thank you for the informative links.
    I was particularly disturbed by your post about a Tamil child, who was arrested under Prevention of Terrorism Act (PTA) at the age of 14 and has been in prison ever since. For 15 years!! Shocking!!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about? It seems to me that the Sri Lankan Justice has failed miserably in this Teardrop Terror Island.

    Humanitarian Human

    I would like to know what the world should do past the 180 day mark. If SL does not hold to its promise the world should react. Are there any concrete steps? I think inaction on part of the world is as cruel as the inaction of the SL government is.

    Your concern about the cruel inaction of the SL government is valid. As you know, in May of 2009, the Sri Lankan government made a pledge to return the bulk of the 300,000 civilians confined in internment camps to their homes within 180 days.

    But more than 130 days have passed since that pledge,
    and the Sri Lankan government has only released around five per cent.

    The slow progress is disturbing and indicates the will for reconciliation is lacking.

    Let me remind you that the vast majority are civilians who are being held in violation of international law.

    No other country in the world holds hundreds of thousands of displaced people in de facto prisons.

    International aid organisations have estimated that at least 50,000 are children.

    What have these children done wrong to grow up in overcrowded and unsanitary camps behind barbed wire and thousands of military guards?

    Humanitarian Human

    Can write a small précis on a Damilvany Gnanakumar story
    and post it here and on my blog
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/sep/16/sri-lanka-tamil

    thanks

  302. The war crime report of US is also out. Let us get mentally prepared to hear blatant and gruesome HR violations from the SLA.
    http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/22/us-embassy-statement-report-us-congress

    Anyways as IDP detention continues, it is turning into a crime of unbelievable proportions – these people need emotional rehabilitation – they dont have the physical or emotional strength after a gruesome war. The SL government should immediately release these people – dont they realize that they get nothing by holding on to these people? – nothing at all. Even if they want to derive sadistic pleasure, haven’t they got enough of it by now? Enough of it by the detention for more than 130 days? Yes, SL government can say there are “terrorists” and there are “land mines”, but they know the “truth” and they know they get no mileage by continued detention – these are hapless civilians – they get nothing by punishing them – the sinhala voter is anyways going to vote for the government whether it is 130 or 160 or 200 days. In fact these voters will sing praises of MR when the government releases them (we need to go no far than read comments from some of our very own fellow commentors to realize this) – why not do it now? Detention is only leading to the economy getting affected unnecessarily and the foreign relations getting jinxed up.

    Unfortunately they are no sane minds to analyse the above facts and act. We have few representatives of the thinking of the government in this very forum who dont understand the above.

  303. Dear Mr. Kumaran Balenthran !!

    Is this the equal treatment of the minority Tamils, Jim Pappa is ranting about?

    Let me take you back to the years 1987-1989.

    There was a Terrorist Sri Lankan group where Majority was Singhlaees who Called them selves the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna (JVP)

    Some of the people who took part in the crimes occurred are still in prison after 20 years even though the JVP has grown to be a main stream political party in Sri Lanka after denouncing Terrorism…

    Hence, it again has nothing to do with any Race, but purely by the violent acts performed that it is decided whether a person should be imprisoned or not…

    If you wish a judiciary system of a country to treat Terrorists who are caught in any other way that imprisonment, I doubt whether there would be a requirement of a Judiciary system in the first place…

    Also, the photographs in your FB are quite saddening .. I have a heap of them too… mainly what happened in Colombo due to LTTE terrorism – Loads of School children, Clergy, Politicians (including Neelan T and Lakshman K). This is the exact past that I wouldn’t want my self or even your good self to be in… Hence, rebuilding requires both of us to do a little bit more sacrifice…

  304. The heartbreaking Damilvany Gnanakumar story is one many yet to be told.

    She was released recently from a Sri Lankan concentration camp. I would imagine for hefty sum of money.

    These SL Government‘s acts of mercy does not come cheap nowadays.

    For those four months, the 25-year-old British graduate was imprisoned behind razor wire inside the Sri Lanka’s grim internment camps, home to nearly 300,000 people.

    The last time she publicly spoke about the conflict was from the hospital where she was working inside the ever-shrinking war zone in Sri Lanka’s north-east.

    Then, the Sri Lankan army had surrounded the small sliver of land where the remnants of the Tamil Tiger guerrillas held out and where hundreds of thousands of civilians had taken refuge.

    She had been in despair: a shell had just struck the hospital and dozens were dead. “At the moment, it is like hell,” she said then.

    The young mother was standing by the side of the road, clutching her baby.

    The baby was dead.

    Damilvany Gnanakumar watched as she tried to make a decision. Around them, thousands of people were picking their way between bodies strewn across the road, desperate to escape the fighting all around them.

    “The mother couldn’t bring the dead body and she doesn’t want to leave it as well. She was standing … holding the baby. She didn’t know what to do …

    At the end, because of the shell bombing and people rushing – there were thousands and thousands of people, they were rushing in and pushing everyone – she just had to leave the baby at the side of the road, she had to leave the body there and come, she had no choice.

    And I was thinking in my mind ‘What have the people done wrong?

    Why are they going through this, why is the international government not speaking up for them? I’m still asking.”

    Gnanakumar was one of a small group of medics treating the wounded and providing a running commentary to the outside world from behind the lines. For months she had managed to stay alive while around her thousands died.

    At night, she lived in bunkers dug in the sand. During the day, she helped in the makeshift hospitals, dodging the shells and the bullets, tending the wounded and the dying, as the doctors tried to operate with butchers’ knives and watered-down anesthetic.

    Now her damning account provides a powerful rebuke to the claims of the Sri Lankan president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, that the defeat of the Tamil Tigers was achieved without the spilling of a drop of civilian blood.

    Usually the Sri Lanka government’s ground forces, done regular air raids by air force Kfir jets. But in early January artillery barrages began, forcing the population to move.

    That was when the reality of the war hit Gnanakumar for the first time.

    “It was raining and … you could see everywhere on the road the blood is running with the water and the bodies were left there because there was no-one to identify who was dead and who is alive, the bodies were just laid down on the floor and that’s the first time I saw dead bodies and wounded people crying out, shouting.”

    Wherever they stopped, they built a bunker, digging down until they could stand up in the hole, cutting down palm branches and laying them across the top for a roof and packing sandbags on the top and around the sides.

    As the frontline advanced, trapping as many as 300,000 people inside a shrinking enclave of LTTE-held land, Gnanakumar went to the makeshift government hospital, which had moved into a former primary school, and volunteered to help, dressing wounds and administering first aid.

    As the fighting intensified, they were treating as many as 500 people every day in two rooms.

    “They had a shortage of medicine but they had to somehow save the people. The last two weeks or so there was a shortage of everything.”

    With replacement blood running out, she had to filter what she could from the patients through a cloth before feeding it back into their veins.

    When the anaesthetics ran short, they diluted them with distilled water. “I watched when there was a six-year-old boy,” she said. “They had to take off the leg and also the arm, but they didn’t have proper equipment, they just had a knife that the butchers use to cut the meat, and we have to use that to take off his leg and arm. He cried and cried.”

    As the army closed in, it got worse.

    “People were running and running to get them safe away from the shell bombing, but they couldn’t and it came to a point where we thought we are all going to die, there is no way we can be safe anymore here, but we just have to take it. I mean, you can’t get out of the shell-bombing.

    I didn’t think that I would be alive and I would be here now. I said OK, I’m going to die, that is the end of it.

    “One day I was inside the [operating] theatre and the next room was bombed.

    We had a lot of the treated people left in the room for the doctors to go and monitor and they all died in that shell bomb.

    And they [the Sri Lankan forces] again bombed the hospital and one of the doctors died in that.”

    Inside the hospital, there was no respite. Gnanakumar could not take any more.

    On 13 May the hospital had been hit, killing about 50 people.

    “The bunker right next to ours had a shell on top of it and there were six people in the same family died and three were wounded.

    “I saw them … suddenly I start hearing people are crying out and I thought, it has to be somewhere really close …

    I came out of my tent and I saw blood everywhere and the people – I couldn’t even imagine that place, there was blood and then the bodies were into pieces everywhere .

    In the last five days, she says, she believes about 20,000 people died. It is a very high estimate, though the UN has acknowledged the true death toll may never be known.

  305. Dear Jim McD, apologies for the delay, but I trust you'll find my reply useful.

    In response to Mango2’s comment of Oct. 19 1:36 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The argument made in the comment is one of “necessity” – it was “necessary” to militarily defeat the LTTE and it was “necessary” to do so in the way that the government did.

    Of course it was necessary to defeat the LTTE in a military manner. How else were they do be prevented from maintaining their illegal racist statelet? Through peace-building workshops? Given that the LTTE re-started the Eelam War 4, they were also seeking a final military confrontation, which they were hoping to win.

    2. It’s not surprising that those committing human rights abuses attempt to defend themselves by making this argument.
    I'm sorry, did I miss something here? Wars always cause human rights abuses. The continued existence of the LTTE & its' war-making potential was always going to result in HR abuses. You have not put forward a single credible, fact-based argument that the LTTE was at any time contemplating anything other than total war.

    Have a look here and note the key points made by the FBI's "Criminal Complaint Against Karunakaran Kandasamy" [senior LTTE guy in US] assessing LTTE actions and intentions. Not my opinion, just facts.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21261389/Criminal-Compl

    – In his 'Heroes' Day Speech in Nov 2005, Fatty announced that the LTTE would intensify attacks unless demands for a Tamil homeland were met.

    – Hundred of subsequent LTTE attacks since that speech were naturally signs of their peaceful intent.

    Which do you think was their most impressive attack in their 'Tiger Claymores for Peace' campaign? The one on the Gen. Fonseka, the Army commander in 2006 or perhaps the assassination of Kethesh Loganathan, secretary general of the Secretariat for Coordinating the Peace Process (SCOPP), or even the bus bombing in June 2006 when over 60 people including 15 kids were murdered?

    Actually the most damning part (for Eelamists) in this indictment is from an LTTE video where Fatty VP …"stated that the Sri Lankan government was playing games, that his patience was running out, and that everyone should be prepared to go to war soon."

    Yes, Velupillai Prabhakaran, a real Prince of Peace, who in the cause of advancing peace in SL, was trying desperately trying to buy 30mm flak guns and lots of other kit including 50 tons of C4 RDX. I guess all those bus bombings must've depleted their stockpiles of C4.

    3. Note that the comment doesn’t deny that the government killed thousands of civilians toward the end of the war. Instead, all blame is shifted to the LTTE on the basis of the “necessity” argument.
    I've never denied that civilians weren't killed during the final May battles. You may be confusing me with a SL govt spokesman. Of course civilians were killed in the cross-fire during the final stage in May. But, let me re-phrase that for you. Military action was necessary by the govt to destroy the LTTE, who it must be remembered used civvies as hostages to prevent that outcome. My most fervent wish was that even at that late stage the LTTE would've freed the hostages & surrendered or fought to the death without using civilian hostages.

    But in the real world, as opposed to one inhabited by AI researchers, that was was never going to happen. To repeat my previous statement, VP was counting on Western bloc 'outrage' at the inevitable civilian death toll, to yet again halt the SLA offensive. For all our sakes (except Eelamists and the fellow-travellers) this was not allowed to happen. Not this time.

    This part of their strategy was openly admitted to by senior LTTE cadres who have repeatedly and unequivocally stated that this was VP's most fervent hope. I'm reminded of Orwell's demolition of the pacifist position at the start of WW2.

    "Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one." http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/pacifism/en

    4. Let’s be clear. AI didn’t oppose the war. We just said that in conducting the war, the government had to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they’re already a party to.

    As far as I can judge, the SL govt did adhere to the GC and as I've already said, "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.
    The corollary of this is that the Govt, had a duty of care to minimise unavoidable civilian casualties during that final phase, which it did.

    Now, I'll have to be fair to AI – as shocking as that may sound. It appears that in 1999, AI pleaded with the the LTTE to "to spare the lives of those who may be on the terrorist organisation's hit-list." http://www.thehindu.com/fline/fl1620/16200530.htm

    Thanks for that. Unfortunately it didn't work. The LTTE being the Energizer Bunny of Terrorism simply continued to kill, bomb and hack off heads until, they in turn were crushed. For a group that murdered an Indian PM, what's a few more assassinations?

    What did work, in ending the LTTE's ability to murder civilians and anyone else opposed to it, was of course the SLA. But thanks again for the letter writing campaign. [BTW, interesting that the LTTE unilaterally announced that they were going to abide by the GC. Was that before they murdered the 600+ surrendering policemen or after?]

    5. The comment’s argument is that the government didn’t have to abide by the Geneva Conventions since there was no other way to defeat the LTTE.
    Not true. I've never said that I don't think the SL govt has ever said that either. Unfortunately the US did for a time derogate from the GC regarding captured Islamic terrorists. But we understand that the lives of First World citizens are worth at least 300 times that of Third Worlders. It's unfair, but that just the way it is.. but I digress. This isn't AI's fault.

    6. It’s easy to make predictions that support your argument – i.e., “if the government had tried any other option, it wouldn’t have worked and more people would have died.” That’s not proof; that’s just a self-serving statement.
    Au contraire. I'm applying basic scientific principles of observed phenomena, repeatability and proof. Let's try it here.

    1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
    2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena.
    3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
    4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

    For each step described above the LTTE fulfills all the criteria of engaging in all-out war for a separate state. Deny it, but provide me with proof. How many more peace traps was SL supposed to fall into before we realised that negotiations and compromise were but a pause in their war? We proved (after many broken peace talks) that only crushing and killing would stop the LTTE.

    I could just as easily argue that if the government had tried, it would have eventually worked, wearing down the LTTE and inducing defections (and of course there never would be any defections from the LTTE, but I suppose Karuna’s revolt in the east is different?).
    You can argue that, but the facts don't support your argument. Karuna's revolt was a breakthrough but see what really happened (and you should know better).
    ""By the end of April 2004 it was as if the rebellion didn’t happen. The Tigers were back in the East, reopening their police stations, reactivating their courts and re-conscripting the child soldiers released by Karuna. The LTTE also began a systematic campaign of murder targeting Karuna supporters and sympathisers. Several prominent Karuna loyalists were murdered. The Norwegians who had withdrawn from their monitoring duties in the East during the rebellion came back doing little to hide their elation at the way things turned out." Read the rest of this salutary example of how the LTTE dealt with 'wearing down' and 'under-cutting'.
    http://tinyurl.com/yl8olhs

    p.s what is with the Norwegian's fascination with the LTTE? Are their lives too dull for them in that endless Winter?

    7. I knew I was potentially opening an endless debate by referring to the lack of any political solution being offered by the Sri Lankan government to the ethnic conflict. There isn’t time or space enough here to fully debate that. I stand by my conclusion. The example offered in the comment to disprove my conclusion was an interim arrangement that didn’t solve the political issues and that both the LTTE and then the government abandoned. If Mango wishes to further pursue this argument, we’ll need to do so elsewhere.
    Jim, you can stand by your conclusion, but an objective outsider would tend to agree with my proven hypothesis that as in Cambodia, Sierra Leone and Uganda, killing and crushing, sometimes works.

    The only political solution to which the LTTE would agree was the division of the island in their favour. They almost achieved it (with the help of their Western backers in the 'International Community), but were foiled in their murderous reign by the SL govt.

    The LTTE was never, ever even remotely interested in anything other than a ethnically 'pure' separate state to be achieved through violence and the crushing of all Tamil opposition to that that aim. For you to state the opposite is simply unworthy of a SL expert at AI USA.

    8. Aid agencies’ access to the camps is limited; my understanding is that they have to sign an agreement with the government promising not to talk publicly about conditions in the camps. Arguing that journalists shouldn’t be allowed in to the camps because they’re biased seems rather weak; if the facts support the government’s case, why not let the world see it?
    Good points, but already answered in previous comments by myself, Jim Pappa and other non-Eelamists.

    p.s. Any news on whether AI gets funding from the EU?

    p.p.s your lack of response to my previous question about AI working with SL rather than against it, suggests that AI will work against the SL govt. Am I correct?

  306. Dear Jim McD, apologies for the delay, but I trust you'll find my reply useful.

    In response to Mango2’s comment of Oct. 19 1:36 P.M., I would make the following points:
    1. The argument made in the comment is one of “necessity” – it was “necessary” to militarily defeat the LTTE and it was “necessary” to do so in the way that the government did.

    Of course it was necessary to defeat the LTTE in a military manner. How else were they do be prevented from maintaining their illegal racist statelet? Through peace-building workshops? Given that the LTTE re-started the Eelam War 4, they were also seeking a final military confrontation, which they were hoping to win.

    2. It’s not surprising that those committing human rights abuses attempt to defend themselves by making this argument.
    I'm sorry, did I miss something here? Wars always cause human rights abuses. The continued existence of the LTTE & its' war-making potential was always going to result in HR abuses. You have not put forward a single credible, fact-based argument that the LTTE was at any time contemplating anything other than total war.

    Have a look here and note the key points made by the FBI's "Criminal Complaint Against Karunakaran Kandasamy" [senior LTTE guy in US] assessing LTTE actions and intentions. Not my opinion, just facts.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21261389/Criminal-Compl

    – In his 'Heroes' Day Speech in Nov 2005, Fatty announced that the LTTE would intensify attacks unless demands for a Tamil homeland were met.

    – Hundred of subsequent LTTE attacks since that speech were naturally signs of their peaceful intent.

    Which do you think was their most impressive attack in their 'Tiger Claymores for Peace' campaign? The one on the Gen. Fonseka, the Army commander in 2006 or perhaps the assassination of Kethesh Loganathan, secretary general of the Secretariat for Coordinating the Peace Process (SCOPP), or even the bus bombing in June 2006 when over 60 people including 15 kids were murdered?

    Actually the most damning part (for Eelamists) in this indictment is from an LTTE video where Fatty VP …"stated that the Sri Lankan government was playing games, that his patience was running out, and that everyone should be prepared to go to war soon."

    Yes, Velupillai Prabhakaran, a real Prince of Peace, who in the cause of advancing peace in SL, was trying desperately trying to buy 30mm flak guns and lots of other kit including 50 tons of C4 RDX. I guess all those bus bombings must've depleted their stockpiles of C4.

    3. Note that the comment doesn’t deny that the government killed thousands of civilians toward the end of the war. Instead, all blame is shifted to the LTTE on the basis of the “necessity” argument.
    I've never denied that civilians weren't killed during the final May battles. You may be confusing me with a SL govt spokesman. Of course civilians were killed in the cross-fire during the final stage in May. But, let me re-phrase that for you. Military action was necessary by the govt to destroy the LTTE, who it must be remembered used civvies as hostages to prevent that outcome. My most fervent wish was that even at that late stage the LTTE would've freed the hostages & surrendered or fought to the death without using civilian hostages.

    But in the real world, as opposed to one inhabited by AI researchers, that was was never going to happen. To repeat my previous statement, VP was counting on Western bloc 'outrage' at the inevitable civilian death toll, to yet again halt the SLA offensive. For all our sakes (except Eelamists and the fellow-travellers) this was not allowed to happen. Not this time.

    This part of their strategy was openly admitted to by senior LTTE cadres who have repeatedly and unequivocally stated that this was VP's most fervent hope. I'm reminded of Orwell's demolition of the pacifist position at the start of WW2.

    "Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one." http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/pacifism/en

    4. Let’s be clear. AI didn’t oppose the war. We just said that in conducting the war, the government had to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which they’re already a party to.

    As far as I can judge, the SL govt did adhere to the GC and as I've already said, "The presence of a protected person [i.e. civilian hostages] may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."4th Geneva Convention, Article 28.
    The corollary of this is that the Govt, had a duty of care to minimise unavoidable civilian casualties during that final phase, which it did.

    Now, I'll have to be fair to AI – as shocking as that may sound. It appears that in 1999, AI pleaded with the the LTTE to "to spare the lives of those who may be on the terrorist organisation's hit-list." http://www.thehindu.com/fline/fl1620/16200530.htm

    Thanks for that. Unfortunately it didn't work. The LTTE being the Energizer Bunny of Terrorism simply continued to kill, bomb and hack off heads until, they in turn were crushed. For a group that murdered an Indian PM, what's a few more assassinations?

    What did work, in ending the LTTE's ability to murder civilians and anyone else opposed to it, was of course the SLA. But thanks again for the letter writing campaign. [BTW, interesting that the LTTE unilaterally announced that they were going to abide by the GC. Was that before they murdered the 600+ surrendering policemen or after?]

    5. The comment’s argument is that the government didn’t have to abide by the Geneva Conventions since there was no other way to defeat the LTTE.
    Not true. I've never said that I don't think the SL govt has ever said that either. Unfortunately the US did for a time derogate from the GC regarding captured Islamic terrorists. But we understand that the lives of First World citizens are worth at least 300 times that of Third Worlders. It's unfair, but that just the way it is.. but I digress. This isn't AI's fault.

    6. It’s easy to make predictions that support your argument – i.e., “if the government had tried any other option, it wouldn’t have worked and more people would have died.” That’s not proof; that’s just a self-serving statement.
    Au contraire. I'm applying basic scientific principles of observed phenomena, repeatability and proof. Let's try it here.

    1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
    2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena.
    3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
    4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

    For each step described above the LTTE fulfills all the criteria of engaging in all-out war for a separate state. Deny it, but provide me with proof. How many more peace traps was SL supposed to fall into before we realised that negotiations and compromise were but a pause in their war? We proved (after many broken peace talks) that only crushing and killing would stop the LTTE.

    I could just as easily argue that if the government had tried, it would have eventually worked, wearing down the LTTE and inducing defections (and of course there never would be any defections from the LTTE, but I suppose Karuna’s revolt in the east is different?).
    You can argue that, but the facts don't support your argument. Karuna's revolt was a breakthrough but see what really happened (and you should know better).
    ""By the end of April 2004 it was as if the rebellion didn’t happen. The Tigers were back in the East, reopening their police stations, reactivating their courts and re-conscripting the child soldiers released by Karuna. The LTTE also began a systematic campaign of murder targeting Karuna supporters and sympathisers. Several prominent Karuna loyalists were murdered. The Norwegians who had withdrawn from their monitoring duties in the East during the rebellion came back doing little to hide their elation at the way things turned out." Read the rest of this salutary example of how the LTTE dealt with 'wearing down' and 'under-cutting'.
    http://tinyurl